Dyno data

[RoadRace]

TMC D.P.s do not have cats. They are wide open. Point of posting this was that people kept asking for it. Anything can be fudged for sure. We do not get anything out of this. We make more on an MM box that our own box. This is just the sheet people asked for so again do what you want but do not kill the messenger lets say. I think if someone wants an bit of explanation, I will say that our car behaved inconsistently on setting 2. Sometimes the car was fast and other times it was not. On the dyno we could see what happens. AFRs go quite lean and boost cuts out a lot on 2. On 1 this does not seem to happen really. That is a translation for guys that do not quite understand what they are seeing.

[BigDaddySRT]

...That is a translation for guys that do not quite understand what they are seeing.

8 Different Color Lines on Both Graphs:
Cyan
Dark Blue
Dark Blue (Thick)
Light Green
Orange
Red
Red (Thick)
Magenta


What Engine/Mileage/Octane Fuel/Timing/Tuning/ Programming/ Piggyback/ Modifications do those Lines Represent??????

How hard is to answer that?

[cerebrix]

8 Different Color Lines on Both Graphs:
Cyan
Dark Blue
Dark Blue (Thick)
Light Green
Orange
Red
Red (Thick)
Magenta


What Engine/Mileage/Octane Fuel/Timing/Tuning/ Programming/ Piggyback/ Modifications do those Lines Represent??????

How hard is to answer that?

wait, you dont know what each colored line means?

dude....

each one is 1 dyno pull.....

that means this chart, shows 8 dyno pulls....

http://www.speedlab.com.ph/index.php/blog/37-how-to-read-a-dyno-chart-part-1

[BigDaddySRT]

wait, you dont know what each colored line means?

dude....

each one is 1 dyno pull.....

that means this chart, shows 8 dyno pulls....

http://www.speedlab.com.ph/index.php...o-chart-part-1

Ummmmm.... Yeah...

"What Engine/Mileage/Octane Fuel/Timing/Tuning/ Programming/ Piggyback/ Modifications do those Lines Represent??????"

[RoadRace]

Here is the boost curve with setting 2 on MM. It is the Turquoise curve. Other curves are where we played with different ways of controlling boost. In fact we took boost levels as high as 30+ psi using other methods.


boost testingMM02 bppst by ROCKHARD37, on Flickr

REFERENCE TO QUESTION ABOUT AFR GRAPH. I will try to remember but everything is recorded in a sense in the document, i.e. 2,1,0,0,1,2 setting for curves. I will do my best to remember. Understand, this is just a sample. We did close to 100 pulls on the dyno and we did it right!
We have been in the business of tuning for a living. Mike W, is quite famous and he did most all of the work to be as correct and scientific as anyone could be while working on this. No one was working to show anything negative. Nothing was set up to be like that. We were trying to make more and more power and working on this with only positive results in mind. If something negative came up, we were as surprised as anyone. So please do not approach this as a rookie tuner did this work or dynos. Do not compare us with people that may have some experience. This is not the case here. We have 1000s of hours at doing this. THis dyno and our staff is hired by Mitsubishi Motors of N.A., American Suzuki and other O.E.s to validate data for use in published works and for highly sensitive projects etc... So do not insult people (RRM and RRE) that do this work 6 days a week for 15+ years. Our reputation is impeccable in the Automotive Industry. So when "TWINKIE 23" or whoever online can present their resume to compare then we will talk further. If what you see bothers you then so be it, if it does not then that is fine too. This dyno and its operators are certified by many entities that have far greater people to answer to. We are being a little coy because of the reaction of people. We did not want to post it at first then people complained that we were hiding stuff. Now we show it and people are still complaining.


"8 Different Color Lines on Both Graphs:
Cyan
Dark Blue
Dark Blue (Thick)
Light Green
Orange
Red
Red (Thick)
Magenta


What Engine/Mileage/Octane Fuel/Timing/Tuning/ Programming/ Piggyback/ Modifications do those Lines Represent??????

How hard is to answer that?
All pulls done on 91 octane, around 3000 miles, timing stock, Piggyback MM, programming = 0, 1, 2 on MM."

Color code goes with what is below in the box: 2, 1, 0, then 0, 1, 2.

Big lean spike correlates a few curves or pulls that are the same setting, like 2 etc...... You can also read in that sheet where it show stock (or 0) being an average of 12.8 to 1 afr and 2 setting being an average of 14.57 to 1 afr.

Hope that makes it more palatable for you. PLEASE DO NOT HATE ON THE MESSENGER once and for all.

ROAD/RACE

[GoFiatGo!]

Don't be so defensive...
You could understand why people would be asking so many questions. I haven't seen any one call you out on your dyno or your experience. I've only seen people start asking questions in frustration with no answers. Just look at the title and first post...
"Dyno Data" followed by a graph with 8 pulls on it and no other information. Not anything saying "hey this an MM box with changes done, look for this line we did this, this line we changed this". It took 2 pages to get there. I would try posting as much information with something like this to avoid any other flak.

[whatebahw]

We did not want to post it at first then people complained that we were hiding stuff. Now we show it and people are still complaining

First, thank you for coming forward with some good info. I think people expected you to post the information because when *you* brought this up *you* said you would post the information. So when you say you didn't want to post the information it contradicts what you said initially (at least in my mind). I also think the reason you see some of us are unsatisfied is because your initial claims were in two parts. One part claimed the "OTHER BOXES" had dangerous AFRs. (Check! Got it! THX) The other part claimed you had found the solution. I think most reasonable people will be satisfied when you show us Dynos with HP & AFRs for your device just like you did with the MM. Do you see?

[Guest]

So if you say the MM is dangerous, why have it on your own car? Why still sell it? I guess there is more to this whole story!

Why not just modify the TMC and sell it as your own? Why try to slander the competition?

So very vague and fishy this whole story. I just dont follow your reasoning?!?!

[Mr. Man]

This is all getting so intense! I have become confused as to what i should buy. I guess I'll just keep waiting.

[RoadRace]

Chart does show 8 pulls. Some are duplicates. Other questions were already answered. Not sold a MM since Oct. and it is still on the site because MM was working out some fixes along with FIAT's reflash. They should really be the ones showing how it works now. Until this is all resolved it will stay up and we will talk through these things with customers before they buy. That is the best for all customers.

ROAD/RACE

[cerebrix]

So if you say the MM is dangerous, why have it on your own car? Why still sell it? I guess there is more to this whole story!

Why not just modify the TMC and sell it as your own? Why try to slander the competition?

So very vague and fishy this whole story. I just dont follow your reasoning?!?!

ok im curious.

please enlighten me.

show me the slander

ill just wait here while you get that for me.

[bawight]

People sure seem hung up on one negative sentence. I'm holding judgement until we see all the data from RRM.

[Guest]

ok im curious.

please enlighten me.

show me the slander

ill just wait here while you get that for me.

You new here? Go read the first post on their sales post. There you will find the enlightenment you yearn for - apology accepted son!

[GoFiatGo!]

ok im curious.

please enlighten me.

show me the slander

ill just wait here while you get that for me.

Here you go:

"There will be another thread made shortly showing the poor boost characteristics of the other ECMs and the dangerous AFRs developed by the "OTHER BOXES." This inspired us to make our own units though so in the end, the community wins. Again this will all be documented for you."

http://www.fiat500usaforum.com/showthread.php?8303-ROAD-RACE-NEW-ABARTH-ECM-Ready

[RoadRace]

The point is that the FIAT engine seems to save itself but the AFRs seen, are in no way accepted by any tuner, anywhere as safe numbers, even on race gas. Does someone agree with that? That was the point of showing and saying what I said. I did not plan on finding this since I was running our MM for a long time. I had problems with consistency, yes. That is what i wanted to see and did not expect to see these AFRs. All this said, people missed the fact that we ran up to 30 psi without damaging anything. Does that speak to the AFRs being OK or that the car/engine has numerous knock sensors, and other sensors that really make the engine robust and able to save itself. This is what the discussion have been about, not that it is MM or TM or ABC for that matter. Again going off the scale is quite a concern, on low octanes that could be the end of the game. Turbo engines should not be tuned to numbers like this. The number are equal or worse than number one would expect to see at idle. Even with timing pulled and race gas this is not in a range anyone should or would tune to. If someone argues that 14+ afr under full boost is normal then just close the thread please.

ROAD/RACE