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Thread: CCS charging?

  1. #1
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    CCS charging?

    Anyone ever tried to charge from a CCS plug? There seems to be a plastic shroud around the charger that will not allow it to physically connect, but could it be removed to allow charging from CCS?

    Darrell

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    Moderator map's Avatar
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    Each charging level has its own plug design to prevent damage when charging. IIRC, the 500e uses a max of 6.6 kW, the same rate as the 2013 Leaf. If you plugged it into a CCS, I assume nothing would happen, since CCS isn't receiving a response signal. If it did start charging, would 40 to 90 kW (200V to 450V) make the batteries burst into flames or just fry the components? 6.6 kW sounds really slow today, but at its release it was a reliable standard. As a CA and OR compliance car, early articles said they made that choice for reliability and compatibility.

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    Ah so perhaps the J1772 part of many, if not all, CCS plugs is not available to do Level 2 AC charging. It appears the extra 2 pins at the bottom are for DC, which the 500e does not have.

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    Senior Member ElectricTireShredder's Avatar
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    Right. It will not work because CCS is Direct Current & Fiat's standard Level-2 J1772 socket only accepts Alternating Current.

    Fiat's 6.6kW max is no slower than nearly every currently operating public L2 charger, which are the vast majority of existing public chargers.

    Besides Teslas, J1772 is still the standard for all home charging, quite likely because there seems to be little need to change it, since a standard wall outlet will recharge the average daily drive during 8 hours of sleep (or 1.6 hours on 240V).

    IF it was available, 40kW or more DC CCS would be no problem for our batteries though, since eGolf does that with basically the same battery pack but without even a liquid-cooling system like we have. Much like plugging into L2 that's faster than your car, ANY car with a CCS socket can safely plug into a 350kW CCS charger. It will safely charge at the car's own max.
    Last edited by ElectricTireShredder; 10-26-2020 at 10:02 PM.

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    Senior Member PLP's Avatar
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    As already said - each charging style has its own plug. If you cannot plug it in, it means it will now work.
    And removal of any parts will not do anything as it will not charge anyway.

    The charging rate is controlled inside the car even if you were able to supply more power.
    For example, my EVSE can supply 32 A at 240 V, that is 7.68 kW. However, Fiat never took more than 28 A that is 6.72-6.80 kW. Also, it would slow down when battery is getting full.
    Having said that - you can try, but it will not work.

    Also, keep in mind something else - while battery might not be ready to take it (although I think it would - you can drain 85 kW no problem and regen at 60 kW or even 70 kW), the biggest issue is in wiring. The wires you have can take what they are designed for. Push twice the current through and a fire is ready to happen.
    While battery will be fine, everything else will catch on fire and the car will be gone.
    Current rides: 2019 Chevy Bolt LT, 2016 Audi Q5 Premium
    Previous rides: 2014 FIAT 500e, 2016 KIA Forte5 SX 1.6 T-GDI, A/T, 2016 FIAT 500X Trekking Plus AWD, 2015 KIA Forte5 SX 1.6 T-GDI, M/T, and many more...

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    The top half of CCS serves two purposes, neither of which is for AC charging. The first is that the top half of the plug facilitates sharing a single port for both J1772 and CCS. The second is that the communications interface between the external charging equipment and the car are located in the top half of the connector.

    So while no AC is available in the J1772 part of the CCS plug, that component is necessary to facilitate CCS charging.

    CCS's powerline communication is a full blown network stack. So, it's really complicated to do a retrofit. Even now the more likely candidate to retrofit faster charging for a 500e would be CHAdeMO. It's CANBus like communications interface is pretty well documented and not too difficult to implement. The 500e has a couple of possible insertion points under the hood for a high power charging interface. I'm sure we'll see some more attempts at a retrofit as warranties start to expire next year.

    ga2500ev

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    Senior Member ElectricTireShredder's Avatar
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    It might be better to try something like the supposedly-upcoming $3k QCCharge.com CHAdeMO conversion kit while still under warranty. Then if the battery failed there's at least a CHANCE of removing the conversion & making a warranty claim.

    Maybe the very best time to try it might be right before a lease expires. Then the worst-case-scenario would probably be having it towed to the dealer.

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    Senior Member PLP's Avatar
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    I think I misread the OP question.

    It was if the CCS plug can charge as L2, right?

    In short - no. The charging pins are the two bottom ones. The pins from the 1772 plug are only place holders for some and others are for communication only. No power transfer at all.
    Current rides: 2019 Chevy Bolt LT, 2016 Audi Q5 Premium
    Previous rides: 2014 FIAT 500e, 2016 KIA Forte5 SX 1.6 T-GDI, A/T, 2016 FIAT 500X Trekking Plus AWD, 2015 KIA Forte5 SX 1.6 T-GDI, M/T, and many more...

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    Junior Member michaehjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PLP View Post
    As already said - each charging style has its own plug. If you cannot plug it in, it means it will now work.
    And removal of any parts will not do anything as it will not charge anyway.

    The charging rate is controlled inside the car even if you were able to supply more power.
    For example, my EVSE can supply 32 A at 240 V, that is 7.68 kW. However, Fiat never took more than 28 A that is 6.72-6.80 kW. Also, it would slow down when battery is getting full.
    Having said that - you can try, but it will not work.

    Also, keep in mind something else - while battery might not be ready to take it (although I think it would - you can drain 85 kW no problem and regen at 60 kW or even 70 kW), the biggest issue is in wiring. The wires you have can take what they are designed for. Push twice the current through and a fire is ready to happen.
    While battery will be fine, everything else will catch on fire and the car will be gone.
    What is the difference between CCS and CHAdeMO?

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    Quote Originally Posted by michaehjones View Post
    What is the difference between CCS and CHAdeMO?
    The practical difference for an owner is that CCS and CHAdeMO use different plugs and are incompatible. If you convert your car to use CHAdeMO, you won't be able to do fast charging at a CCS charger, or vice versa.

    Nissan Leaf has been in production a long time and has been the all-time best selling EV worldwide, and it uses CHAdeMO. Nissan began using CHAdeMO and the CCS standard was not developed until later. For this reason, public CHAdeMO fast chargers currently outnumber CCS. However other EV manufacturers have converged on using CCS (except Tesla, which uses its own standard). New installations of fast charging stations will be overwhelmingly CCS and will become more prevalent than CHAdeMO.

    Here is more information: https://enrg.io/ccs-charger-everythi...-need-to-know/

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