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Thread: TigerShark Lawsuit on Oil Consumption/Failure

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    Senior Member mp4guy's Avatar
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    TigerShark Lawsuit on Oil Consumption/Failure

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    Senior Member PLP's Avatar
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    First time I hear.
    But the explanation is... stupid. They basically say the engine shuts off because the oil level is low. However, they suggest that the owners do not check the oil level. Hence, the owners do not follow the service schedule to monitor oil level.

    The engine has a dipstick. Oil level checks is something what every driver should do. Oil change indicator is not an oil level indicator.
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    Amministratore Fiat500USA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PLP View Post
    First time I hear.
    But the explanation is... stupid. They basically say the engine shuts off because the oil level is low. However, they suggest that the owners do not check the oil level. Hence, the owners do not follow the service schedule to monitor oil level.

    The engine has a dipstick. Oil level checks is something what every driver should do. Oil change indicator is not an oil level indicator.

    You hit the nail on the head. This is car ownership 101. Whoever wrote the complaint doesn't have a clue about how car a works. They are complaining owners can't depend on oil change indicator systems to warn them about dangerous oil levels or oil pressures. That is because it is an Oil Change Indicator. Not an oil level or oil pressure indicator. Can people be that stupid?
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    Moderator map's Avatar
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    Hmm... It's amazing how many people think the oil pressure light is there to tell them when their car has run out of oil. I didn't know the car would shut off when detecting low oil pressure. I'd have thought it shuts down because there isn't enough oil to open the valves.

    Still, you hear it on the chat groups all the time, for all makes of cars. "My car had 1 quart of oil, but the light didn't come on. Why did my engine fail?"

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    usually i would agree. stupidity & lack of checks by the owner can lead to all sorts of preventable issues.

    but, did you guys actually read the whole statement? theres a ton more to it than just 'letting the oil run low', isnt there? i can see how 90% of that lawsuit makes complete sense...or am i missing the point & the above posters are correct?
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    Senior Member HalfPint's Avatar
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    It does appear there is a problem with some of the 2.4 engines in terms of excessive oil consumption. I've read about it on Renegade forums and elsewhere. I don't remember reading about what the root cause was, or I may have forgotten as I don't plan to get one of those engines.
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    It took very little research when I decided I may want a 500X. 1.4 = nearly bulletproof Fiat standard that’s been well developed and used all over the world for years or 2.4 = same old Chrysler 2.4 with new shiny tech on top, was junk always junk.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattsnapz View Post
    usually i would agree. stupidity & lack of checks by the owner can lead to all sorts of preventable issues.

    but, did you guys actually read the whole statement? theres a ton more to it than just 'letting the oil run low', isnt there? i can see how 90% of that lawsuit makes complete sense...or am i missing the point & the above posters are correct?

    That may be, but the problem they are complaining about is the Oil Change System doesn't alert them to low oil level. They should be complaining about oil consumption per x amount of miles.

    All engines consume oil. Someone may think an engine doesn't but the amount used may be small and not be measurable on a dipstick, or could be the result of oil dilution where the amount of oil on the dipstick is a mix of oil and condensation. If the issue is how much oil per mile does the engine consume. FCA standards are very lenient compared to others. However, if someone never checks their oil within a reasonable period and runs low, that is neglect.

    It is entirely possible an engine has an assembly issue and will consume too much oil, however it is also very possible that an owner never checks their oil, runs the engine low which scores cylinders and then you have a perfectly fine motor that was ruined by someone who never checks their oil between oil changes. That happens all the time.

    The takeaway for everyone is to check your oil now and then regularly. Every other fuel fill-up is reasonable and should be fine with a healthy motor.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiat500USA View Post
    Here are the official oil consumption guidelines, copied from another thread. Oil consumption has a lot to do with how you drive. Keep careful track of it but a quart every 3,000 miles may not be that bad. Some cars use more oil than others.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiat500USA View Post
    Hi David,

    The engine holds 4 quarts. I think the main thing is if you remembered what the mileage was the last time you checked the oil before having to add some and where it was on the stick. Probably impossible to recall info like this so maybe fill it up, make a note of the mileage and then check it at a regular interval and see how low it is and record the mileage. Check the oil the same way to be consistent as oil levels will vary depending on the when it is checked.

    Here are the official Fiat 500 oil consumption guidelines, courtesy of Chrysler:

    DISCUSSION:
    Engines require oil to lubricate and protect the load bearing and internal moving parts from wear including cylinder walls, pistons and piston rings. When a piston moves down its cylinder, a thin film of oil is left on the cylinder wall. During the power stroke, part of this oil layer is consumed in the combustion process. Varying rates of oil consumption are accepted as normal in all engines.

    Oil Consumption
    The accepted rate of oil consumption for engines used in the vehicles listed above is 0.946 liter (1 qt.) in 3,200 km (2,000 mi) for the 1st 80,467 km (50,000 mi). For vehicles with more then 80,467 km (50,000 mi) the acceptable oil consumption for engines is 0.946 liter (1 qt.) in 1,207 km (750 mi).


    CAUTION: This above rate only applies to personal use vehicles, under warranty, that are driven in a non-aggressive manner and maintained in accordance with the appropriate maintenance schedule,

    CAUTION:
    This rate does not apply to vehicles that are driven in an aggressive manner, at high RPM, high speeds, or in a loaded condition (for trucks). See ‘Causes for Oil Consumption’ below. Oil consumption for vehicles driven under these conditions will be higher and may include Fleet and Commercial customers. There are many factors that can affect a Owner's concern with oil consumption. Driving habits and vehicle maintenance vary from owner to owner. Inspect each condition listed below prior to determining if the vehicle in question has abnormal engine oil consumption. If abnormal oil consumption is suspected, refer to the detailed diagnostic procedures available in DealerCONNECT

    CAUTION:
    Operating the vehicle with an oil level that is below the minimum level indicated on the engine oil dipstick can result in severe engine damage. Repairs resulting from operating an engine with insufficient oil are not covered under the terms of the New Vehicle Warranty.

    Oil Dilution (Fuel and Water)
    On vehicles that are normally driven short distances, less than 8 km (5 mi), especially in colder weather, unburned fuel and condensation generated from cold engine operation may not get hot enough to evaporate out of the oil. When this occurs, the dipstick may indicate that the oil level is over-full. Subsequent driving on a trip of sufficient length to
    enable normal engine operating temperature for 30 minutes or more, in order to vaporize excess moisture and fuel, may give the customer the impression of excessive oil consumption.

    Causes for Oil Consumption

    Aggressive Driving
    Aggressive driving and/or continuous driving at high speeds with high RPM's will increase oil consumption. Because this may not always be an everyday occurrence, it is hard to determine exactly how much the oil economy will be affected. A higher rate of oil consumption is normal for vehicles equipped with manual transmissions that are driven
    aggressively. Aggressive means; operation at high RPM (3,000 RPM to redline), with frequent use of engine braking (using the engine to slow the vehicle). Vehicles that are driven aggressively may consume engine oil at a rate of up to 0.946 L (1 quart) every 805 km (500 mi). This is normal for a vehicle that is driven aggressively. No repair is necessary. This driving habit will require the owner to check the engine oil level at frequent intervals, to verified the oil level remains within the recommended operating range. Oil level should be checked every time you get fuel.

    Towing or Heavy Usage
    Towing a trailer will increase oil consumption and may cause oil consumption to fall below the normal accepted rate referenced in this bulletin for an unloaded vehicle in a personal use application. Large frontal area trailers will further increase the work required from the engine, especially at highway speeds increasing the rate of oil consumption.

    Engine Wear
    Piston scuffing, excessive piston-to-wall clearance, tapered or out of round cylinders, worn, damaged or improperly installed valve guides, seals and piston rings will cause an increase in oil consumption.

    Engine Temperature
    If an engine is run at overheated temperatures for more than brief periods, oil will oxidize at a faster than normal rate. In addition, gaskets may distort, piston rings may stick, and excessive wear may result. Verify that all cooling system components are in proper working order.
    There have been many discussions on oil consumption on the forum. See the "Similar Threads" heading below. Here are a couple of bigger threads:

    http://www.fiat500usaforum.com/showt...e-quick-advice

    http://www.fiat500usaforum.com/showt...on-(Oil-Level)
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    I did a quick search on the Tigershark engine and here is what I found from Wards Auto: "The Tigershark, which launches with displacements of 2.0L and 2.4L, is derived from the World Engine. But it borrows sparingly. No more than 12% of their parts are common, says Bob Lee, vice president-engine and electrified propulsion engineering. “Our first objective was refinement; our second objective was fuel economy,” Lee tells WardsAuto.

    So yea, there is some old Chrysler in the 2.4 but overall, not as much as one would think and don't call it junk because of old Chrysler. Maybe call it new Chrysler junk.

    I like the Tigershark as it has a lot of torque due to its size. I would not expect it to be a high revving engine due to its mass. I have not noticed unusual oil consumption in my 2016 Lounge so maybe I was lucky.

    Regards, Jeff

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    IMHO, the base problem is 3 parts. The engine doesn't have a lot of oil to spare, oil change intervals on modern cars has been extended, and high rev engines sling more oil around and need a better sealed engine. With 3K oil changes, you drop a quart in 2000 model car, no serious problem, owner neglect not critical. With the 6500 to 8000K oil changes, same oil use, you've run the engine nearly dry. People use a car an appliance.

    I couldn't find the article I was looking for, but there was an interesting proposal of having a sump canister. At oil changes, you'd put some extra quart in the canister. At intervals, a small pump would run, topping off the engine and excess flowing back into the canister. When the canister ran low it'd light a symbol on the dash. Similar to the Granatelli Indy 500 4WD car... big auxiliary oil tank because the car squirted engine oil on the tires.

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