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Fiat 500 Sport 2012, Automatic Transmission, sealed? not sealed? changing fluid
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Thread: Fiat 500 Sport 2012, Automatic Transmission, sealed? not sealed? changing fluid

  1. #1
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    Fiat 500 Sport 2012, Automatic Transmission, sealed? not sealed? changing fluid

    Hi,
    There is a lot of confusing information about the Fiat 500 Automatic Transmission. Some people and manuals say it is sealed for life.
    I am at 141k and just had a transmission malfunction. First thing that Fiat Service did was recommended checking the fluid, which they said it is impossible without doing the full fluid change, as they need to unseal and seal again.

    On this yt it looks like you just drain it an fill it in.



    Somewhere on this forum it was posted that one can use a dipsitck:
    Dipstick 10323A, to check the levels and see if anything attaches to the magnet.

    If I can simply check it like that and needing to change I can drain and refill, what is the whole thing with sealing and unsealing the transmission?
    And why service claimed they need to do that?
    Can somebody explain how this works? Preferably with pictures?

  2. #2
    Senior Member fast_dave's Avatar
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    For the 90% of the public - it's sealed for life.

    For those of us who have been around cars for a good many years, we know it can be serviced 'cause FIAT techs do it.

    On a 1-10 scale, with 1 being easiest and 10 being hardest, I'd place it at an 8.5 (and I've separated more pans from transmissions than I can remember).

    There are a lot of variables and parameters (i.e. almost clean room cleanliness required) that you need to operate within to hit goal the first time, and not ruin the transmission.

    It is definitely not a job to do if you are rushed for time or are easily distracted.

    The Drain & Fill Process

    In short:

    * the car must be lifted & supported on all 4 sides and be almost perfectly level (perfectly level is preferred).

    * the fluid pan needs to be removed from the transmission,

    * the transmission fluid drained,

    * through a sequential multi-step process, the transmission is refilled with new fluid to it's "initial" level.

    * then the car is started (while still on 4 jack stands), and through a temperature specific/monitoring process that involves the use of an infrared thermometer, the ATF Fluid is topped off to it's determined level.

    * To wind it up, if I remember correctly the ATF fluid is FIAT specific and pretty dang pricey...

    NOTE: The ONLY part in the 500 automatic that is not replaceable is the transmission filter.

    The filter is internal to the transmission; to get to it you must separate the transmission from the engine, and then disassemble the transmission, is the transmission filter.
    Last edited by fast_dave; 03-28-2020 at 03:31 PM.
    2012 Sport 5 speed Manual Trans, SPC Adjustable Front Camber Bolts, CorsaStrada Lower Front Chassis Brace, ST Rear Sway Bar, 205/45/16 Bridgestone Potenza RE760 Sport Tires

  3. #3
    Senior Member Fabio13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fast_dave View Post
    For the 90% of the public - it's sealed for life.

    For those of us who have been around cars for a good many years, we know it can be serviced 'cause FIAT techs do it.

    On a 1-10 scale, with 1 being easiest and 10 being hardest, I'd place it at an 8.5 (and I've separated more pans from transmissions than I can remember).

    There are a lot of variables and parameters (i.e. almost clean room cleanliness required) that you need to operate within to hit goal the first time, and not ruin the transmission.

    It is definitely not a job to do if you are rushed for time or are easily distracted.

    The Drain & Fill Process

    In short:

    * the car must be lifted & supported on all 4 sides and be almost perfectly level (perfectly level is preferred).

    * the fluid pan needs to be removed from the transmission,

    * the transmission fluid drained,

    * through a sequential multi-step process, the transmission is refilled with new fluid to it's "initial" level.

    * then the car is started (while still on 4 jack stands), and through a temperature specific/monitoring process that involves the use of an infrared thermometer, the ATF Fluid is topped off to it's determined level.

    * To wind it up, if I remember correctly the ATF fluid is FIAT specific and pretty dang pricey...

    NOTE: The ONLY part in the 500 automatic that is not replaceable is the transmission filter.

    The filter is internal to the transmission; to get to it you must separate the transmission from the engine, and then disassemble the transmission, is the transmission filter.
    According to the video there doesn't seem to be any fluid pan.
    2013 Fiat 500 Sport AT, Xpel Ultimate Clear Bra, 3M Crystalline Window Tint, Black top stripes, Black "500" (wide) side stripes. Fiat "500" Stainless door sills by Mopar. BlueTooth music streaming. OBDII BlueTooth Torque gauges streaming to smart phone. BF Goodrich Sport Comp II tires, STS rear sway bar, Euro+Drive NA 500 Tune, BMC reusable air filter and Spare Tyre with cover.

    Blast to drive! 25 years newer than last car!

  4. #4
    Senior Member fast_dave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fabio13 View Post
    According to the video there doesn't seem to be any fluid pan.
    LOL - Old age strikes again - I totally confused the procedure with our Hyundai Tuscon.

    Nevermind and carry on
    2012 Sport 5 speed Manual Trans, SPC Adjustable Front Camber Bolts, CorsaStrada Lower Front Chassis Brace, ST Rear Sway Bar, 205/45/16 Bridgestone Potenza RE760 Sport Tires

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    so anybody on this forum that knows how this works on Fiat 500 6-speed automatic?
    because that whole procedure you posted there is not for Fiat 500 right, at all?

  6. #6
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    1. Verify that the vehicle is level.
    2. Actuate the service brake. Start the engine and let it run at idle speed in selector lever position "P".
    3. Shift through the transmission modes several times with the vehicle stationary and the engine idling.
    4. With the engine running, raise the vehicle.
    5. Remove the belly pan if equipped.
    6. Remove the differential fill plug.
    7. Monitor the transmission oil temperature using the appropriate scan tool.
    8. Using Dip Stick 10323 or (special tool #10323A, Dipstick) (1), check the transmission fluid level by inserting the tool into the transmission as shown. Tool 10323 has notches marked HOT and COLD. Tool 10323A has a metric scale from 0 to 140 mm at the base of the handle.
    9. The Fluid level should be between COLD = 17 to 32 mm with fluid temperature ranging from 45-55C (113 - 131F) and HOT = 27 to 40 mm with fluid temperature ranging from 80-90C (176 - 194F)
    10. Add or remove oil as necessary based upon the operating temperature of the transmission.
    11. To reduce the fluid level or drain the transmission, remove the cross car cradle brace (1).
    12. Remove the small plug (1) to adjust fluid level. Remove the large plug (2) to drain the case.
    13. Install and tighten plug (1) to 8 N.m (71in. lbs.), tighten plug (2) to 51 N.m (38 ft. lbs.)
    14. Shift through the transmission modes several times and recheck the oil level
    15. Once the oil level is correct, install a new O-ring seal to the plug and re-install. Tighten the plug to 51 N.m (38 ft. lbs.).
    16. Install the cross car brace and tighten the bolts to 90 N.m (66 ft. lbs.)
    17. Install the belly pan if equipped.

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  8. #7
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    One other note, the transmission fluid is your basic Toyota stuff, WS spec, I think. Or look for something that meets Fiat AW-1 spec. Either way, it's cheap oil and nothing special.

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  10. #8
    Senior Member Fabio13's Avatar
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    No spec listed. This Mopar AW-1 fluid is around $17 a quart. I’m thinking of a full synthetic trans fluid to do a change out at 65,000 miles. That would mean just a couple quarts at a time. Then change again a few days later. How critical is it to use the mysterious Mopar fluid when full synthetics are actually cheaper?

    I say this as I’m out in the desert where it gets well over 100*F five months of the year. My Torque app is showing 94*C trans temperature.
    2013 Fiat 500 Sport AT, Xpel Ultimate Clear Bra, 3M Crystalline Window Tint, Black top stripes, Black "500" (wide) side stripes. Fiat "500" Stainless door sills by Mopar. BlueTooth music streaming. OBDII BlueTooth Torque gauges streaming to smart phone. BF Goodrich Sport Comp II tires, STS rear sway bar, Euro+Drive NA 500 Tune, BMC reusable air filter and Spare Tyre with cover.

    Blast to drive! 25 years newer than last car!

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    Good reason to have a manual five speed tranny.

    Tedolph

  12. #10
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    This transmission is used in a number of different makes of car. It's an Aisin Warner TF60SN transmission and it uses anything that is equivalent to Toyota's WS fluid. The Mopar fluid is probably synthetic because these are often called "lifetime fill" but the lifetime of Aisin transmissions can be pretty short that way, lol! I think in some other applications this transmission has problems with wear somewhere in the valve body so changing the fluid is a good idea.

    Here's one example of the proper fluid:

    https://www.blauparts.com/aisin-warn...ol-tws-4l.html
    Last edited by Paulbob; 04-30-2020 at 10:30 PM.

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