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Thread: Oil change interval

  1. #11
    Senior Member HalfPint's Avatar
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    I think 8k and 10k mile oil changes are a case of marketing telling people what they want to hear rather than good practice. Especially in a turbo engine that uses the oil as hydraulic fluid to run the intake valves and is as high output as the Abarth there's no way I'm letting it go past 5k. Beyond that when I'm not having fun in sport mode I'm in normal mode trying for high mileage, which means low rpm shift points - I try not to push it too hard to the point of lugging it, but still you want good oil film strength on bearings driving that way.

    I need to find locally available filters other than Fram which I would not put in an engine I cared about.
    Completely stock 2016 500 Abarth, Rhino & Nero

  2. #12
    Senior Member smark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HalfPint View Post
    I think 8k and 10k mile oil changes are a case of marketing telling people what they want to hear rather than good practice. Especially in a turbo engine that uses the oil as hydraulic fluid to run the intake valves and is as high output as the Abarth there's no way I'm letting it go past 5k. Beyond that when I'm not having fun in sport mode I'm in normal mode trying for high mileage, which means low rpm shift points - I try not to push it too hard to the point of lugging it, but still you want good oil film strength on bearings driving that way.

    I need to find locally available filters other than Fram which I would not put in an engine I cared about.
    Plenty of oil filter choices from Rock Auto, or any Auto supply store. It’s funny the Fram oil filter is the most $$$$$, of them. I’ve used WIX, or Mobil one filters, in the past.

    The auto manufacturers are recommended the longer mikage oil changes. Has nothing to do with marketing. Porsche Mercedes Benz BMW etc. Have moved to longer milage oil changes.

    https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/...il+filter,5340
    Last edited by smark; 12-07-2019 at 01:10 PM.

  3. #13
    Senior Member HalfPint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smark View Post
    Plenty of oil filter choices from Rock Auto, or any Auto supply store. It’s funny the Fram oil filter is the most $$$$$, of them. I’ve used WIX, or Mobil one filters, in the past.

    The auto manufacturers are recommended the longer mikage oil changes. Has nothing to do with marketing. Porsche Mercedes Benz BMW etc. Have moved to longer milage oil changes.

    https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/...il+filter,5340
    Apparently the cartridge style Frams aren't so bad, so maybe I will use them. It was the mechanical construction & features that were the problem with Frams previously, but that's not relevant with these.

    I was referring to the auto manufacturer's marketing, as long service intervals are a perceived competitive advantage for those that want to believe in that. It's a tough market right now, and every little edge is important.
    Completely stock 2016 500 Abarth, Rhino & Nero

  4. #14
    Moderator map's Avatar
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    You can pick up Mopar filters for $8 on Amazon.

    I agree with your 5K oil changes. This is the "black" oil I think was mentioned earlier. In a solid stream, it looks black, but in a split stream light passes. (This is a change after the light came on.) I'm putting on maybe 10K a year, so 6 months/5K, sounds reasonable to me, even though it costs me an additional $60 every 25000 miles.

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  5. #15
    Lifetime Member Lifetime Member SeaDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smark View Post
    I dont know how a Fiat dealership can make a mistake Jacking up a car. There are small embossed, arrows designating the jacking points, on the rocker panels.

    The reason you not allowed watching your car being service. It a shop insurance Liability issue.
    Yes, but the actual jacking point is further under the car not right under the arrow.

    And yes, not letting you in the service area is legal liability driven.
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  7. #16
    Amministratore Fiat500USA's Avatar
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    The problem is the pinch-weld is well inboard of the rocker panel and the sideskirt is lower and very close. If the guy putting the car up on the lift is sloppy the arms of the lift will contact the skirts and will pop the skirt free of the body at the top of the skirt.



    This is the back. The skirt is the part with the bolt.



    Another view. The skirt is lower than the pinch weld. Mechanics used to working on trucks where they just kick the lift under the frame in a second or two without really looking are the issue. There is a specific place to position the lift and there's a whole guide for techs, but it seems a lot never looked at it and if they are outside a Fiat dealer, they likely never saw it. It is common sense for guys used to lifting expensive cars, but still a little tedious because the skirt is so low. We have tons of posts on sideskirts that have popped loose at the top.

    One you know, getting the car up on the lift isn't hard to do at the dealer. However, doing it at home is more of an issue because you need to place a jack stand under the car to support it but your floor jack is in the way.

    The easiest way is to lift the whole car ar the front at the pinch-weld and then place the jack stand under the car. You lift the front even if you just want to put a stand under the rear. Use a pad like the one below. Try to get a tall and narrow one.



    Below is a post showing more about the issue. The first part is from the dealer guide.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiat500USA View Post
    Here is where you lift the Fiat 500 and 500 Abarth : Floor jack at number 2 position.



    1 - DRIVE ON HOIST
    2 - FRAME CONTACT LIFT (SINGLE POST)
    2 - CHASSIS LIFT (DUAL LIFT)
    2 - OUTBOARD LIFT (DUAL LIFT)
    2 - FLOOR JACK

    CAUTION:
    Do not position hoisting device on any suspension component, including the front or rear suspension crossmembers. Do not hoist on the front and rear bumpers, the lower radiator crossmember, or the front engine mount.

    Do not attempt to raise one entire side of the vehicle by placing a floor jack midway between the front and rear wheels. This practice may result in permanent damage to the body.

    When placing hoist lift pads, use care to avoid contact with the body side sill and body cladding.*

    Also Note: The hoisting and jack lifting points provided are for a complete vehicle. When the engine or rear suspension is removed from a vehicle, the center of gravity is altered making some hoisting conditions unstable. Properly support or secure vehicle to hoisting device when these conditions exist. Failure to follow these instructions may result in serious or fatal injury.




    A hoist lift pad (1) equipped with a rubber mat (2) or equivalent, is preferred when lifting the Fiat 500.



    Note: Do not allow the hoist lift arm (3) to contact the body sill or cladding (2) or damage to the vehicle may result.


    Note: Do not allow the hoist lift arm or lift pad to contact the body sill or cladding (1), the rear suspension (2), or underbody protection (3) or damage to the vehicle may result.

    courtesy of FCA

    =========================



    The pinchweld is used for the supplied Fiat scissor jack. The picture above is for the European 500 but the jacking locations are similar if not exactly the same. Now the question is can you get one of the v-cut pinchweld pads like the one below in there without damaging the sideskirt? The taller pinchweld pads work better than the shorter ones because the sideskirts are very close to the front pinchweld. You place these pads on a floor jack.




    The jack stand pads like the ones below will protect the body of your car and are recommended. If you are buying jack stands, get the narrowest heads you can find as the space is tight on cars with sideskirts.




    The Fiat 500 is designed to be lifted by professionals with garage lifts, so a do-it-yourselfer can run into trouble getting the car up on jack stands due to the limited space and jacking points. In the front, the car can be jacked on the pinchweld with the appropriate pad or the chassis reinforcement under the floor, so that is not really a problem. The rear, however, is tougher because there is only one lift point.

    Disclaimer:
    Below is how I lift my Fiat 500 Abarth and 500 Sport. The information provided worked for me and is provided for entertainment purposes and I can't guarantee it will work for you. Lifting your car is a task normally performed by professional, competent mechanics. If performed incorrectly, it can cause serious injury or damage your car. DO NOT attempt this procedure if you're not comfortable assuming these risks yourself.


    Here is the what you have to work with. The above picture shows the rear pinchweld area where you lift the car. The problem is this is also the place were you need to put the jack stand to support the car. You can't work on a car on a jack so you need to put the car on a jack stand, but how do you do it when the jack is there?




    Here is how I do it.

    The Easy Way to Put Your Fiat 500 Up on Jack Stands:

    Get your floor jack and two jack stands ready. You'll be jacking the car up on one side.




    Jack the car up on the front pinch weld with a floor jack. When you lift the front high enough the rear will come of the ground. Remember to lift at the arrow on the sideskirt or rocker panel. As mentioned above, DO NOT lift the car in the center of the rocker panel or you may damage the car unibody. Have a Jack Stand handy and slide it under the chassis reinforcement in the front.




    Go to the back of the car and place your jack on the pinch weld where the arrow on the sideskirt or rocker panel indicates. Use some padding between the body and the jack stands / jacks to protect the body. Thick cardboard will work.

    This is the way I recommend, and the procedure will easily raise the car so you can get one side up on stands. You can get both wheels up if you want or just the front. If you just need to do the rear, you can still do it this way as it keeps you from jacking on the rear axle beam, which is less stable.

    Alternate Way to Get the Fiat 500 Rear Up on Jack Stands:



    Place a floor jack under the shock/spring perch and lift the axle up. If you can't get the floor jack under the shock mount you may have to use the supplied Fiat scissor jack to jack the car up and remove the rear wheel and then slide your floor jack under the shock mount.

    Note: you may have to remove the wheel in order to fit the floor jack under the shock so first check to see if the floor jack can fit safely under the shock mount with the wheel on the car. If you can, then you can probably just lift the car up from the shock mount and don't need the scissor jack. My floor jack wouldn't fit under the mount because of the wide Abarth wheels / sway bar and that's why I needed the scissor jack to remove the wheel.

    Keep jacking the car up with the floor jack until you can safely remove the scissor jack under the pinchweld and replace it with a jack stand. Lower the car carefully onto the jack stand.

    Remember: KEEP TRACK THAT SCISSOR JACK IS STABLE AND NOT TILTING WHILE YOU JACK UNDER THE REAR SUSPENSION. DO NOT GO UNDER A CAR SUPPORTED BY ANY JACK.

    When you are putting the car up on jack stands, you have to be careful where you place the jack on the twist beam axle and you shouldn't place it in the center of the beam. The spring perch area supports the weight of the car and is a strong point on the beam. You may, however, have a hard time getting a floor jack under that area due to the Abarth's sway bar so the most practical and stable place to place the jack is be under the shock mount. As you are just temporarily taking the weight off the scissor jack for a few moments while you replaced it with jack stand, I had no issues using this technique.

    REMEMBER: ALWAYS BE CAUTIOUS WHEN JACKING UP A CAR. KEEP YOUR EYES OPEN AND MAKE SURE YOU ARE ON STABLE GROUND AND JACKS AND JACK STANDS ARE IN GOOD SHAPE.



    There are a few threads on this over the years:
    http://www.fiat500usaforum.com/showt...sistance/page2
    http://www.fiat500usaforum.com/showt...e-a-floor-jack
    http://www.fiat500usaforum.com/showt...-to-hoist-FIAT

    tag: http://www.fiat500usaforum.com/tags.php?tag=jacking
    Last edited by Fiat500USA; 12-08-2019 at 11:45 AM. Reason: added some more tips on lifting the car.
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  8. #17
    Senior Member smark's Avatar
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    I sometimes use my Fiat OEM scissor jack that came with my car. Jacking Pinch welds, are common on all modern cars. If I use my hydraulic floor jack. I’ve taken a hockey puck, cut a slot in it. Place that on top of the jack mount plate. To accommodate the pinch weld.



    Last edited by smark; 12-08-2019 at 12:43 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SeaDawg View Post
    Yes, but the actual jacking point is further under the car not right under the arrow.

    And yes, not letting you in the service area is legal liability driven.
    Our studio has windows so the shop is visible to the waiting area. Cool to watch them pull an engine or such if there's nothing interesting on the TV
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