2013 500 POP Does not start

[RedThunder]

Well, after nearly 96K miles with zero issues, the day came that my beloved Red Thunder, is having some troubles.
When I turn the key in the ignition, i hear the usual buzzer, all lights come on, and that's just about all.
NO clicking sound repeated. No trying to start, nothing.
I went to Autozone and OReilly and they scan the battery and said it's good, a little old (only 25% of life left) but as a battery looks still good.
Some times it starts normally, with no issues. When it does not start, i do the usual jump out, push, jump in get it in 2nd gear, and let go of the clutch (yes, it's a standard, what else..?) Yes I am that old that I can remember how to do that, and I grew up in Italy driving the original 500 doing the same things..
When I do that, it starts right away, and then works and hums like a kitten and it's a joy to drive.
Now, I am looking at:
1) Alternator
2)Starter
3)Battery.

Alternator, i read online and I really can't seem to have the symptoms of a bad alternator.
Starter.. this is possible.
Bad Battery, maybe. I need to try and jump start it and see what happens.
I also think of the clutch sensor being faulty
Any suggestions ? Are any of those two, alternator and starter something that one can do DIY ?

Thanks for all the advice.

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[map]

That's a really beautiful car and this sort of thing can be frustrating.

I would start with the simple things. Since the batt is getting on, I might try replacing it. If there is a marginal problem, a strong battery can make all the difference. (I learned that w/ my '63 Corvair, replacing the factory batt w/ a Ford tractor batt. I ran out of gas one time and cranked the car 5 blocks, off and on, to the filling station; that much more cold crank power vs original.) When it doesn't start you could use an ammeter to check voltage. At the battery, it should have at least 12.6V for reliable starts. I'd also try putting a charger on the battery for 15 minutes and then try cranking again. Remove the charger and give it a crank. (An alternative is to use one of those portable lithium jump packs.) Freezing weather can really sap a battery's power. If these work, replacement is a good idea.

The wiring connections can corrode on 500's. Many of those connections are under the battery tray and some people have found cleaning all those connections were the problem. Even if your cigarette lighter connection shows the same battery voltage, resistance increases under heavy loads (like cranking).

If you can do these little things at home, it might save a thousand at the shop as they guess at the problem.

[pasomoto]

Worn starter drawing excess amperage

engine ground strap and frame ground

connector for power cable at solenoid is know to split and lose or make intermittent contact.

check battery ground clamp is secure. It has a weakness near the end of it’s clamping range.

check plugs? Look for corrosion or fouled crimps on power and ground cables. Seelling under insulation. Signs of heat.

[robsmith]

And don't forget to keep parking on hills!

If the alternator were bad, you'd get no charge to the battery. If the battery were bad, you'd have to jump start (or in your case, bump start) it every time...and it wouldn't re-charge with the alternator over a few mile drive.

Like the other guys suggested...a connection, or switch going are more likely..Get under the hood and clean every electrical connection you can find - and retighten. (May want to disconnect the battery first?)
Like Pas said - the ground strap can cause issues like you're having, and they get funky when you add salt and years. Can we even GET to the starter on these cars? (I honestly don't know - thanks god). Wire connections to the starter can loosen over time - causing the symptoms you're talkling about. Your idea about the clutch switch also has merit.

Best of luck

[KellyfromVA]

Worn starter drawing excess amperage

engine ground strap and frame ground

This is a pretty common issue with a 2012-2013. Disconnect and remove the battery. Make sure the battery measures over 12VDC disconnected. If less than 12VDC, you should replace the battery. Remove the battery tray and disconnect the ground terminals attached to the 'frame' below. There are three of these connection points to the frame. Don't just loosen and tighten the connections. Remove them, and using a wire brush or Scotchbrite, clean all the wire terminals until they are shiny metal. Do the same with the threaded post connections. After reconnecting the ground wires, coat them with a light layer of grease to reduce the chances of corroding again. Put it all back together. You should be fine for another seven years.

[smark]

Did they do a load test at Auto Zone. You should be getting around 14.2 volts. How old, is that battery in your car? Try cleaning you battery post, and cable connectors.



Buy one of these.....

[RedThunder]

Thank you all, here is what I did so far...

I got a voltmeter and checked the battery at the terminals with engine off, I got a healthy 12.66.
Started the engine somehow, and at idle, voltage at terminals was well above 14.10
I had my wife keep the engine at or above 2000 rpms so to get the alternator to really work, and with no headlights and stuff I got 14.66 , with all headlights, radio, AC on, everything electrical I could think of ON, and 2000 rpms I got 14.01 more or less. That tells me that the alternator is doing its job. So at this point I need to look at battery, starter and cables and connections.
I will follow all the advice I got from you guys (THANK YOU!) and try to disconnect, clean, reconnect, everything I can find, before I head in starter replacement.. that is costly if done by a mechanic, and I hear it is not for the faint of heart if done DIY.
If I have problems in finding any of the cables you all mentioned, I will let you know and ask for more advice or use google for schematics.
In the meantime, yes, park on hills. Kind of hard to do in Austin, TX ... LOL..

[QUOTE=smark;851847]Did they do a load test at Auto Zone. You should be getting around 14.2 volts. How old, is that battery in your car? Try cleaning you battery post, and cable connectors.



Buy one

[RedThunder]

And I will have Oreilly charge the battery to 100%, just to get that out of the loop for sure.


[QUOTE=RedThunder;851849]Thank you all, here is what I did so far...

I got a voltmeter and checked the battery at the terminals with engine off, I got a healthy 12.66.
Started the engine somehow, and at idle, voltage at terminals was well above 14.10
I had my wife keep the engine at or above 2000 rpms so to get the alternator to really work, and with no headlights and stuff I got 14.66 , with all headlights, radio, AC on, everything electrical I could think of ON, and 2000 rpms I got 14.01 more or less. That tells me that the alternator is doing its job. So at this point I need to look at battery, starter and cables and connections.
I will follow all the advice I got from you guys (THANK YOU!) and try to disconnect, clean, reconnect, everything I can find, before I head in starter replacement.. that is costly if done by a mechanic, and I hear it is not for the faint of heart if done DIY.
If I have problems in finding any of the cables you all mentioned, I will let you know and ask for more advice or use google for schematics.
In the meantime, yes, park on hills. Kind of hard to do in Austin, TX ... LOL..

Did they do a load test at Auto Zone. You should be getting around 14.2 volts. How old, is that battery in your car? Try cleaning you battery post, and cable connectors.



Buy one

[RedThunder]

Thank you, I will hit that first thing tomorrow morning. Thank you for the detailed and clear instructions.

[Fiat500USA]

For the sake of the discussion. While it is good to check voltages when off and when running, a key test is doing a load test. You can do that yourself by pulling the fuel pump relay and cranking the engine over for 10-15 seconds. The voltage shouldn't drop below 10 volts. You might not even need to pull the relay if you see the batter voltage nose dives. You have to remember you can have enough amps to run lights and other small load items, but not enough to crank over the engine.

Alternatively you can go to a retail parts store and have them do the load test but make sure you see the results yourself. The typical display will be voltage and charge percentage. Make a note of that and have them repeat it again to see of the battery passes and note the results. If the state of charge percentage drops precipitously the batter is on it's way out even if it comes up on their machine as "good." Remember the battery isn't getting any younger. You can try charging it to and then retest, but if the readings nosedive after a couple of tests the hand writing is on the wall.

[RedThunder]

Well, I understand what you say, and I see the point, it's a real life stress test for the battery.
My issue would be that most of the time, when I turn the key to try and "crank it " .. nothing happens, and that's my main issue.
so I would be unable to, once removed the fuel pump relay, crank it for 10-15 seconds... unless I am really lucky and get the one time it does start..

[pasomoto]

See if this helps any Red Thunder. it discusses a split contact ring.


https://www.fiat500owners.com/threads/fiat-will-not-start.141722/#post-1244209

https://www.fiat500owners.com/threads/fiat-will-not-start.141722/#post-1291376

[Fiat500USA]

Well, I understand what you say, and I see the point, it's a real life stress test for the battery.
My issue would be that most of the time, when I turn the key to try and "crank it " .. nothing happens, and that's my main issue.
so I would be unable to, once removed the fuel pump relay, crank it for 10-15 seconds... unless I am really lucky and get the one time it does start..

Buried deep in my post is you don't necessarily have to disable the fuel pump relay to do this. If you turn the key and it nosedives to nothing you've found your problem.

[Fiat500USA]

This "split ring connector" is the connection at the starter (3) that could be an issue. However, if the battery nose dives and there and the lights don't stay on when cranking, it likely is not the issue. That may indicate a starter itself s drawing too much current If the lights stay on and battery voltage stays reasonable, that sounds like an electrical issue like a connection, switch, etc. The volt meter will be a big help for this.

[RedThunder]

Well, it turns out it was the starter.
It also turned out I have bought the car with the lifetime warranty, Maximum Care, and after 7 years, i found all paperwork for it.
One phone call to the local dealer and my baby was in and in a few hours it was out again, with a new starter, several firmware and software updates, 2 recalls taken care of, new thermostat (in the meantime the car threw a "check engine" light... ) and some other issues that was also under warranty.
I paid a minimal deductible, and was taken care of very well. I know, usually cardealers don't have the greatest reputation, I work with them on a daily basis.. But this time my local Fiat dealer in Austin, came through with high colors. They also replaced the battery in my FOB, washed the car, and took care of other minor things.
My "baby" is now very happy and seems to be running very well. . I hope it lasts that way.

This "split ring connector" is the connection at the starter (3) that could be an issue. However, if the battery nose dives and there and the lights don't stay on when cranking, it likely is not the issue. If the lights stay on and battery voltage stays reasonable, that may indicate a starter is drawing too much current or there is an electrical issue like a connection, switch, etc. The volt meter will be a big help for this.