Tune shootout July 16th

[Saponetta]

I dont have access to logs on an ec car. Jist a kid who used to stop by my business hoping to get his car to run better. If he ever comes by again, I'll see what I cam do. But the one guys car is pretty well set now. I wish he wanted to reflash his car with his ec supplied tines and dyno it. Because I could get tork and open flash tines to make it a 3 way. That was my original goal. But didnt work out, so I'm doing just tork and openflash on my stock turbo car that I been driving everyday. Been hurrying to get all the mods done to it so it like a stage 2 type setup as I think that's most owners goals. So it will be relevant to the most people. Also why I chose to buy dyno time instead of using the one at my warehouse space. This way, its completly 3rd party dyno, and it will read numbers typical to most aftermarket suppliers dyno. I had a car that consistently trapped real high 120's only make low 300hp on the dyno dynamics. So it's not great for comparison numbers.

[Saponetta]

I'm still learning a ton. I've got most of the issues with my gt17 car figured out. It very smooth amd consistent. But it could be better and surely more powerful. Especially at the boost level I run. When I feel I can really be of use, I want to out together an open flash guide. Explaing what's what and strategys and principles that work well with these cars. Ive had lots of people ask me about stuff. I've found that certain aspects of this ecm require a knowledge and fiat specific thinking that people with experience on standalones, or older ecm fuel strategy might meed a little help with. I have a deep respect for all tuners of this platform, but some are more honest amd offer a better product than others.

[doverosx]

There is no reason why you can't dyno the car. EC conflates the issue, Open Flash has never said it would be an issue and Tork has never said it would be an issue.

There are torque, acceleration and so many more limiters inside the ECU, when you're on the dyno you will definitely hit these limiters unless they were adjusted for more performance. On the road, you will hit the limiters but in a slightly different way and regardless, you won't see a big difference in power. I ran 14.873 with EC Phase 2, I recently ran a 14.67 with Tork Stage 2. Phase 2 would only trap consistent 93s and low 94s with race gas. With 94 octane (normal street gas around here), Tork Stage 2 would regularly trap 94 and 95mph. I put up the comparison in the broken fiat club forum, but regardless the two tunes perform very closely and I believe the Tork tune edges out in tune refinement.

The power is repeatable, EGTs are lower, boost is lower, the car drives around town much smoother and the torque curve isn't a big a wallop down low that feels impressive at first only to nose dive. It comes up, hangs a bit, then continues to pull right on up until the turbo runs out of breath at 6k.

[opiateESP]

EC’s dyno video, for reference. Specific type of Dyno required per EC.

This is utter garbage. Not true at all. Period. Just keep in mind that 2WD dyno numbers directly correlate to the 1/4 mile times and the inflated times leave you wondering why cars with the same power and weight you think you have are getting down MUCH faster... ... ...

This is just simple fact. Anything else is just made up to sell you garbage.

... besides, realism is faster than fantasy.

[Saponetta]

Mormons have magic underwear, ec has magic dynos.

[doverosx]

Mormons have magic underwear, ec has magic dynos.

LMFAO, this new guy calls it as he sees it. Saponetta 2020.

[Romanoaf]

There is no reason why you can't dyno the car. EC conflates the issue, Open Flash has never said it would be an issue and Tork has never said it would be an issue.

There are torque, acceleration and so many more limiters inside the ECU, when you're on the dyno you will definitely hit these limiters unless they were adjusted for more performance. On the road, you will hit the limiters but in a slightly different way and regardless, you won't see a big difference in power. I ran 14.873 with EC Phase 2, I recently ran a 14.67 with Tork Stage 2. Phase 2 would only trap consistent 93s and low 94s with race gas. With 94 octane (normal street gas around here), Tork Stage 2 would regularly trap 94 and 95mph. I put up the comparison in the broken fiat club forum, but regardless the two tunes perform very closely and I believe the Tork tune edges out in tune refinement.

The power is repeatable, EGTs are lower, boost is lower, the car drives around town much smoother and the torque curve isn't a big a wallop down low that feels impressive at first only to nose dive. It comes up, hangs a bit, then continues to pull right on up until the turbo runs out of breath at 6k.

Doverosx, thanks, that is useful feedback. I've seen your comparisons on BFC; EC P2 and Trk S1 run fairly similarly after 3500, with EC starting off stronger.
The Dyno debate rages on; however, I think I remember reading that you had performed an Auterra dyno run(s) with some of the tunes, is this something you're willing to post?

In my eyes, B2B road logged runs would be a mostly impartial way to compare these tunes without anyone screaming dyno BS..

[doverosx]

Doverosx, thanks, that is useful feedback. I've seen your comparisons on BFC; EC P2 and Trk S1 run fairly similarly after 3500, with EC starting off stronger.
The Dyno debate rages on; however, I think I remember reading that you had performed an Auterra dyno run(s) with some of the tunes, is this something you're willing to post?

In my eyes, B2B road logged runs would be a mostly impartial way to compare these tunes without anyone screaming dyno BS..

You say that but I *PROMISE* you that there is no reasoning with these people. The non-kool-aiders don't typically post but they are watching. The kool aiders will always, always, always move the goal posts. I have spent thousands testing my own car and got so damn close with maintaining appropriate conditions that even with 91 octane (putting Tork S1) at a disadvantage, none of the kool aiders saw anything reasonable. Here is what one may conclude, EC's tune has higher torque limits down low (as you noted) and while the EC tune has a similar or higher PEAK power, the Tork S1 tune actually produces more area under the curve particularly above 5000RPM. If you race the EC tune, you feel a big time nose dive, however, with the Tork tune, it just continues to pull and pull, it levels off smoothly and then you shift.

I didn't end up doing road dynos because I saw the inability to please those who drink the kool aid. I received a LOT of support in behind the scenes from DMs and PMs through the forum and Facebook however. Additionally, that feedback made its way back to John; more feedback is making its way back to John particularly with 8GMKs and we're learning that the differences that were downplayed crop up when you start pushing for more power. I'd like to see your dynos btw and when I do road dyno (my friends car while tuning), I will definitely post up what I find out.

[Romanoaf]

I wouldn’t think EC would object to software road runs, seeing as they’ve written tech articles on the subject. And to be honest, I haven’t found the “non koolaiders” to be silent, at any mention of tuning, in my short time with this car.

ill do what I can once I’m setup to run, I would be performing software road runs to keep it impartial, and because it’s cheap.

I’m currently trying to revert to H class so I can baseline my racing against competition.. But I’m not sure if that’ll last long as I have yards of carbon fibre on order for an intake design I’ve been working on.

i don’t mean to derail the subject

[doverosx]

Awesome. Good to see new blood in this damn forum actually using facts and science.

[126pwannabe]

Are the Tork Tunes even available? Don't seem to be on the website...

[opiateESP]

Are the Tork Tunes even available? Don't seem to be on the website...

Look closer.

It's easy to find. They're waiting for a new batch of handhelds. They've been selling a lot of them lately.

Tork OBDII Handheld Tuner

[doverosx]

Oh and the Tork S2 is definitely faster and produces higher peak power on the dyno than the EC P2. Tork S2 is actually one of my favourite tunes I’ve ever had on the car so far. We’ll get there with the meth tune but I have some hardware issues that I’m working on; trying to keep the nozzle from popping out of the charge pipe.

[Saponetta]

Git a few pm fro. Vendors and dyno owners laughing about ec claim. Apparently there was a time where they claimed a cell phone dyno was as legitimate as a real chassis dyno. Wow.

I've never ran a tork tune. I'm not loading one till the day before the dyno and just to check and make sure there are no issues and verify car runs safe on it.

But its pretty obvious he has spent more time indexing this ecm than probably anyone in america.

[126pwannabe]

Look closer.

It's easy to find. They're waiting for a new batch of handhelds. They've been selling a lot of them lately.

Tork OBDII Handheld Tuner

really. "Product not found" as per your link.

It would be nice for some legit folks like GIAC / APR to get into the 1.4T game.