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Long Term Reliability/Maintenance with EC Phase 2 Tunes or any tunes - Page 7
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Thread: Long Term Reliability/Maintenance with EC Phase 2 Tunes or any tunes

  1. #61
    Lifetime Member Lifetime Member Saponetta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aelfwyne View Post
    Blanket statements like that are not useful.

    My 2015 Abarth consistently makes a lot of power and does not pull power like that. It's crazy.

    I know someone who criticized a tune by a vendor I won't/can't name due to crazy legal threats, and it turns out he had a leaking blowoff valve that was causing a lot of his issue.

    There can be revisions as well that have issues, but as ANYONE who knows about tuning knows, when you're dealing with an off the shelf tune applied to multiple revisions, some going back to the tuner for modifications may be necessary, and both EC and Tork are willing to do that - IF the end user is able to provide them useful data to make those changes. No tuner can work 100% blind - don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

    Customers had gone back to ec. At least one did. Bought a few new parts from them, not sure if they ever did any revisions. Ec blamed hardware. Not tune. I only know these 2 people because they have stopped by the shop and warehouse seeing my abarth out front.
    I'm not an expert, but I know a few things. I've figured out why they do what they do based off open flash. Which can be prone to same issue it seems. The one guy moved to ope flash, his car is running great with zero hardware changes. He still has his ec mapping. I tried to convince him.to use his car for the dyno comparo of tunes, but after all his trouble, he still believes the special dyno crap.
    A friend of mine in texas helped me sort out my issues with my openflash on my gt17 car. I didnt know enough about this commanded torque ecm strategy to solve on my own.
    Last edited by Saponetta; 07-09-2019 at 02:38 PM.
    2013 abarth
    Spec 2+ clutch
    Working on new divided turbo setup
    Homebrew fmic w/ corsa forza hoses
    Stock Downpipe with cat and 2.25discharge
    Coils
    Homemade cowl intake
    ECB yellows/stop tech fluid
    Koni/vogtland
    Braces and strut mounts
    Corsa forza vento
    E30 blend

    2013 abarth tork tuned
    cowl intake, custom fmic and bypass valve, vogtlands, rear vette bilstiens, long 3 inch downpipe to stock rear section.

  2. #62
    Member Abarth500_John's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aelfwyne View Post
    Blanket statements like that are not useful.

    My 2015 Abarth consistently makes a lot of power and does not pull power like that. It's crazy.

    I know someone who criticized a tune by a vendor I won't/can't name due to crazy legal threats, and it turns out he had a leaking blowoff valve that was causing a lot of his issue.

    There can be revisions as well that have issues, but as ANYONE who knows about tuning knows, when you're dealing with an off the shelf tune applied to multiple revisions, some going back to the tuner for modifications may be necessary, and both EC and Tork are willing to do that - IF the end user is able to provide them useful data to make those changes. No tuner can work 100% blind - don't let anyone tell you otherwise.
    It has been a while since I have modded cars and figured I would have to work with EC to iron out some of the kinks on the tune. I just need to make sure everything is right on my end before I can get to that point. So far, EC has been rather helpful and have answered all of my questions so far.

  3. #63
    Lifetime Member Lifetime Member Saponetta's Avatar
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    That's great anyone who has a good experience with ec tunes. I wouldnt want anyone to have trouble with their car. I just try amd save other owners trouble by documenting issues I've encountered. Be it fuel, spark gap, air temps, brakes, whatever. Jist relaying my experience on the only 2 ec cars I've been around. Tork motorsports has seen amd documented similar evidence. Look at their facebook page where he posts dynojet results from fiats on a weekly basis almost. And given his wizardry, I suspect he has even looked at the ec mapping itself. Not claiming he has, but I dont think typical encryption strategy would faze him. But I've seen the exact same issue to some extent with openflash. That's how I was able to figure out my issues with input from a friend and tuner in texas. Steve Kan. He looked at what I had to show him and suggested corrections that had my car making clean pulls to 120mph on gps. No power loss at all over distance anymore.

    Anyone who's car is running great and is fast with their ec tune, that is awesome. It's also easy if you own their tune to post logs, quarter mile times, or anything else to show the car pulling cleanly with out substantial power loss thru multiple gears. Even in car video of display. Dont have to dyno it.
    Last edited by Saponetta; 07-09-2019 at 03:27 PM.
    2013 abarth
    Spec 2+ clutch
    Working on new divided turbo setup
    Homebrew fmic w/ corsa forza hoses
    Stock Downpipe with cat and 2.25discharge
    Coils
    Homemade cowl intake
    ECB yellows/stop tech fluid
    Koni/vogtland
    Braces and strut mounts
    Corsa forza vento
    E30 blend

    2013 abarth tork tuned
    cowl intake, custom fmic and bypass valve, vogtlands, rear vette bilstiens, long 3 inch downpipe to stock rear section.

  4. #64
    Member Abarth500_John's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saponetta View Post
    That's great anyone who has a good experience with ec tunes. I wouldnt want anyone to have trouble with their car. I just try amd save other owners trouble by documenting issues I've encountered. Be it fuel, spark gap, air temps, brakes, whatever. Jist relaying my experience on the only 2 ec cars I've been around. Tork motorsports has seen amd documented similar evidence. Look at their facebook page where he posts dynojet results from fiats on a weekly basis almost. And given his wizardry, I suspect he has even looked at the ec mapping itself. Not claiming he has, but I dont think typical encryption strategy would faze him. But I've seen the exact same issue to some extent with openflash. That's how I was able to figure out my issues with input from a friend and tuner in texas. Steve Kan. He looked at what I had to show him and suggested corrections that had my car making clean pulls to 120mph on gps. No power loss at all over distance anymore.

    Anyone who's car is running great and is fast with their ec tune, that is awesome. It's also easy if you own their tune to post logs, quarter mile times, or anything else to show the car pulling cleanly with out substantial power loss thru multiple gears. Even in car video of display. Dont have to dyno it.
    So after about 600 miles on the tune, I had some time to check the spark plugs (replaced before I flashed) and they all look good even though I did find a few of them would rather loose so I torqued them down to 12ft-lbs. Glad I checked! I'll have some time Monday evening to check things over and get the blue spring put in the Forge BOV and see where we stand boost wise. It could be that the spring that is in there now maybe bleeding boost at higher RPMs but nothing I could really hear when doing pulls. If all is well then I will put it on the dyno and post the numbers.

  5. #65
    Lifetime Member Lifetime Member Saponetta's Avatar
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    A leak losing that much boost should be audible. I had a leak where my bypass valve is welded to intercooler, turbo could keep up with it and it still was clearly audible

    You never really clarified, is this hallening everytime or after long pull thru multiple gear? Because the ec time seems to drop a lot of power in multiyear pulls in the 2 car I experienced. I didnt even notice it at first. It's intercity grid around me. We have to go a few miles to a highway to tjis parkway thru a large park to really accelerate a car thru a few gears. What was ec response to 12psi at redline?
    Last edited by Saponetta; 07-11-2019 at 03:55 PM.
    2013 abarth
    Spec 2+ clutch
    Working on new divided turbo setup
    Homebrew fmic w/ corsa forza hoses
    Stock Downpipe with cat and 2.25discharge
    Coils
    Homemade cowl intake
    ECB yellows/stop tech fluid
    Koni/vogtland
    Braces and strut mounts
    Corsa forza vento
    E30 blend

    2013 abarth tork tuned
    cowl intake, custom fmic and bypass valve, vogtlands, rear vette bilstiens, long 3 inch downpipe to stock rear section.

  6. #66
    Member Abarth500_John's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saponetta View Post
    A leak losing that much boost should be audible. I had a leak where my bypass valve is welded to intercooler, turbo could keep up with it and it still was clearly audible

    You never really clarified, is this hallening everytime or after long pull thru multiple gear? Because the ec time seems to drop a lot of power in multiyear pulls in the 2 car I experienced. I didnt even notice it at first. It's intercity grid around me. We have to go a few miles to a highway to tjis parkway thru a large park to really accelerate a car thru a few gears. What was ec response to 12psi at redline?
    I think what I will do over the weekend is mount my phone and record video of the boost gauge/RPMs through the gears to see exactly what is happening and will post it here.

  7. #67
    Lifetime Member Lifetime Member Saponetta's Avatar
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    Do you have logger? Be it cell phone app or plug in tool?

    Should be able to record data stream and review exact amount of drop and where its occurring. It's nearly impossible to do more than generalise watching g gauges.

    Also, what kind of timing are you seeing at high rpms, dies boost seem to build abnormally slow? Im.sure it's not feeling exactly fast, but does the car seem extra sluggish? Any stuttering or cutting out?
    Last edited by Saponetta; 07-12-2019 at 03:47 PM.
    2013 abarth
    Spec 2+ clutch
    Working on new divided turbo setup
    Homebrew fmic w/ corsa forza hoses
    Stock Downpipe with cat and 2.25discharge
    Coils
    Homemade cowl intake
    ECB yellows/stop tech fluid
    Koni/vogtland
    Braces and strut mounts
    Corsa forza vento
    E30 blend

    2013 abarth tork tuned
    cowl intake, custom fmic and bypass valve, vogtlands, rear vette bilstiens, long 3 inch downpipe to stock rear section.

  8. #68
    Member Abarth500_John's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saponetta View Post
    Do you have logger? Be it cell phone app or plug in tool?

    Should be able to record data stream and review exact amount of drop and where its occurring. It's nearly impossible to do more than generalise watching g gauges.

    Also, what kind of timing are you seeing at high rpms, dies boost seem to build abnormally slow? Im.sure it's not feeling exactly fast, but does the car seem extra sluggish? Any stuttering or cutting out?
    I wish I had answers to those questions and I definitely need to get a logger. I am just waiting for some photography money to come in before I can get one. As far as performance of the car in general, I would say it is pretty good for the most part and the car pulls relatively hard. I notice that the car pulls pretty hard in the mornings but in the afternoons, it is not as powerful due to the really hot days we have been having in Denver. At any rate, I plan to get the wastegate rechecked, perform a boost leak test, and replace the forge BOV spring with the blue one per EC's request.

    As far as hearing the boost leaking, I do not hear any of that at all and EC had indicated to me that I should be seeing a bit more boost towards redline on P2 however the boost levels I am seeing on the 695TF tune are fine and expected behavior. I suspect that possibly, the spring in the BOV maybe contributing this and will need to swap it out for the blue one since this is what EC recommends.

    After I check the wastegate, test for boost leaks, and install the blue spring in the BOV, would a dyno run be beneficial to get the info you need? Thanks again for all the help/advice you have provided thus far Saponetta.

  9. #69
    Lifetime Member Lifetime Member Saponetta's Avatar
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    Just for ahit and giggles, since you cant log, throw 2 gallons of e85 into a basically full tank and see what happens. It wont hurt anything, and you may get performance back. I have a feeling you will. Especially since you say the performance is variable. See how much the gauge says and how it performs with a couple gallons of e85 in there. Put in 2.5 actually to a full tank of 93. If your logs say what I think they say, this will let us know the problem. I dont thinknits the bov spring, wastegate, any serious boost leak, or anything listed. The ec tunes seem to drop power, but not over a short burst and no way there sell a tine that commands such low boost up high.
    Last edited by Saponetta; 07-13-2019 at 06:18 PM.
    2013 abarth
    Spec 2+ clutch
    Working on new divided turbo setup
    Homebrew fmic w/ corsa forza hoses
    Stock Downpipe with cat and 2.25discharge
    Coils
    Homemade cowl intake
    ECB yellows/stop tech fluid
    Koni/vogtland
    Braces and strut mounts
    Corsa forza vento
    E30 blend

    2013 abarth tork tuned
    cowl intake, custom fmic and bypass valve, vogtlands, rear vette bilstiens, long 3 inch downpipe to stock rear section.

  10. #70
    Member Abarth500_John's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saponetta View Post
    Just for ahit and giggles, since you cant log, throw 2 gallons of e85 into a basically full tank and see what happens. It wont hurt anything, and you may get performance back. I have a feeling you will. Especially since you say the performance is variable. See how much the gauge says and how it performs with a couple gallons of e85 in there. Put in 2.5 actually to a full tank of 93. If your logs say what I think they say, this will let us know the problem. I dont thinknits the bov spring, wastegate, any serious boost leak, or anything listed. The ec tunes seem to drop power, but not over a short burst and no way there sell a tine that commands such low boost up high.
    I currently only have 91 fuel out here and only fill with Shell V Power. Timing getting pulled at higher RPMs does make sense and I may put a gallon or two of E85 to see what happens. Are you sure nothing will happen with my setup if I add a few gallons of E85 with 91? I thought one needed special injectors to run E85? I'm curios to see how the car responds with a bit of E85.

    Apologies for asking rather rudimentary questions as I am fresh out the box when it comes to tuning/working on cars but I have learned alot from this forum!

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