Clutch

[ciddyguy]

Having driven several manuals, (2 80's era Hondas and my current ride, a 1992 Ford Ranger truck), I've noticed something in regards to clutches.

Both the 83 Civic and the 88 Honda Accord had cable actuated clutches (yeah, I know the Accord originally had a hydraulic unit and if memory serves, went back to a hydraulic unit in the 4th Gen model, beginning in 1990), but for some reason the '86-89, 3rd gen Accords had cables for the clutch instead, the Civic always were, don't know about the later ones though.

Anyway, the truck I drive now has a hydraulic unit and the major difference is the cable actuated clutches tend to be both lighter but also more of a direct feel, letting you now when the clutch engages, which I liked and didn't find the light clutch an issue at all. Now the truck has a definite weighty feel to it, but it's not super heavy like in some vehicles but definitely not one you'd care to hold in while slugging along in rush hour traffic however but doable in those situations in any event.

One thing about hydraulic clutches is not all of them will give you good feedback in so far as their engagement, but the clutch in the truck is fantastic at that, which I like.

So

[sketch]

Re: Clutches

Based on your post, I would imagine that it's hydraulic. I remember it had little to no indication of where its engagement point was, which led me to stall once or twice during the test drive. :P Imagine my embarrassment when it took me a while to discover that you have to turn the key back from ON before trying to start it again!

[ciddyguy]

Re: Clutches

<quote author="sketch">
Based on your post, I would imagine that it's hydraulic. I remember it had little to no indication of where its engagement point was, which led me to stall once or twice during the test drive. :P Imagine my embarrassment when it took me a while to discover that you have to turn the key back from ON before trying to start it again!
</quote>

The key thing, I know that's been common on German cars and there is a reason for this as I understand it, to prevent grinding the starter. Seems most now have a safety switch that prevents you from trying to start the car by disabling the start mode while the car is actually running, but once you've stalled the motor, you can then restart.

This thing of turning to run (or off) then restarting goes back to the 70's when such safety switches didn't exist as I learned when a good friend had a '77 Rabbit back in the mid to late 80's for a short time.

I think his '80 SAAB did this too but don't know for sure but that was about 18 years ago too.

[ciddyguy]

Re: The clutch

One thing I should say is that when I first got the truck, but the same thing with both Hondas to a degree is that with any new car, where it lets out differs from car to car and once you have figured out where that let out is, getting used to the clutch becomes easier as I was not used to the clutch letting out low when I got the truck, thanks to a new clutch plate and it let up rather abruptly (had about 200 miles on it at the time), once I've driven it a bit and it broke in, I can now tell where it lets up and how to manipulate it to my needs. Today, I shift smoother than I have with either Honda and part of that is I'm older and having driven a stick for much longer (previous cars prior to the Hondas were automatics from the big three).

And to add to this, I had to drive the 83 Civic for a time with a worn clutch as it slipped if you weren't careful (even when adjusted and that wasn't easy with the old cable) so had to go easy on the gas to prevent slipping until I got it replaced a short time later.

Once the new clutch was installed (along with a fresh cable), it was fine and was MUCH lighter feeling than it had been as the old cable was stiff as a board due to binding and s

[Jvsgabriel]

Re: The clutch

As for starting the Fiat, I know that one must first depress the clutch in to start it. Which threw me for a second as all my manual cars didn't have this safety feature (my SAABs '93 and '95 900's, '81 Peugeot, even '93 Mitsu truck). But then said autos were all pre 2000 cars. So I tried to start the 500 and it didn't start, had to remember to push in the clutch. but thankfully never stalled the car, but did waste some gas by having a very heavy foot. I sort of pride myself by giving just enough gas for a smooth and easy start.

I was also surprised at how sensitive the brake pedal was. Was really looking foolish as I had everybody in the car bobbing their heads with each stop I made the first couple times. Did any one else find this to be the case, or do I just have a very heavy braking foot? Anthony, what was your experience? iknow the SAAB brakes need quite a lot of effort as well.

And for the record still no call from Fiat yet. So it is not going regionally as someone had mentioned. I think there was a post saying the cars would be sent to the southern states closer to Mexico. What's closer than San Diego and Los Angeles? And LA has Motor village up and runnin

[sketch]

Re: The clutch

Yeah, it's the same with any manual-transmission car I get into, finding the clutch's sweet spot is always the hardest part. Especially since the clutch I'm most familiar with these days is that of a Corvette! :P

[ciddyguy]

Re: The clutch

<quote author="Jvsgabriel">
As for starting the Fiat, I know that one must first depress the clutch in to start it. Which threw me for a second as all my manual cars didn't have this safety feature (my SAABs '93 and '95 900's, '81 Peugeot, even '93 Mitsu truck). But then said autos were all pre 2000 cars. So I tried to start the 500 and it didn't start, had to remember to push in the clutch. but thankfully never stalled the car, but did waste some gas by having a very heavy foot. I sort of pride myself by giving just enough gas for a smooth and easy start.

I was also surprised at how sensitive the brake pedal was. Was really looking foolish as I had everybody in the car bobbing their heads with each stop I made the first couple times. Did any one else find this to be the case, or do I just have a very heavy braking foot? Anthony, what was your experience? iknow the SAAB brakes need quite a lot of effort as well.

And for the record still no call from Fiat yet. So it is not going regionally as someone had mentioned. I think there was a post saying the cars would be sent to the southern states closer to Mexico. What's closer than San Diego and Los Angeles? And LA has

[Springer2011]

Re: The clutch

Clutch interlock is on all cars sold today. You are comparing cars 16 to 28 years old.

[Anthony]

Re: The clutch

I had no issues with the brakes being sensitive.

The 500 has a self-adjusting hydraulic clutch. Again, I had no issue finding the friction point. The learning curve in my opinion is mastering the shift points and figuring out the power range of the engine.

In looking back, I don't know when the clutch interlock became mandatory. I can't remember whether my '91 Saab had it. My '80s Volvos certainly did not. Every other car I owned from the '90s did. Probably came about in either 1991 or 1993 with all of the other safety requirements.

[sketch]

Re: The clutch

Pedal sensitivity is simply one of those things that changes from car to car. My Prius is somewhere in the middle of the feather touch required to slow my dad's old G35 and the relative stomp mom's old Sequoia needed. Same variations in the accelerator. More "sporting" cars tend to require a lighter touch because this increases responsiveness.

[ciddyguy]

Clutch

Hey Chris or anyone else,

I have noticed that for N. America, nothing is mentioned of the clutch or what type it is. I know it's very light and in my poking around the engine bay the other weekend, noticed the absence of a hydraulic clutch reservoir but can't obviously see a cable either in there somewhere.

Having had cable clutches before in my 83 Civic and in the 88 Honda Accord (that generation Accord all had the cable clutch for some reason) and the cable went right down from the firewall to the front of the motor on the driver's side where an adjustment nut was located and easily accessed and thus the periodic adjustment of said clutch could be performed.

The downloadable US manual says nothing of the clutch and the Euro manual you Chris had as a download as well shows the clutch reservoir for ALL the motors from the 900cc twinair to the 1.4L 16V and it was on the passenger side, perhaps towards the center of said firewall between the motor and said firewall.

Since this clutch is so light, is this a cable actuated unit or is it hydraulic and the US manual also doesn't specify any service intervals for said clutch AT ALL in any of the service intervals listed.

Any ideas?

[Alvon Elrod]

Re: Clutch

The clutch is hydraulic, and shares the reservoir with the brakes. The output of the reservoir to the clutch master cylinder is higher than the output to the brake master cylinder, which means if you were to lose fluid, the clutch would quit working before the brakes quit working.

Alvon

[ciddyguy]

Re: Clutch

<quote author="Alvon Elrod">
The clutch is hydraulic, and shares the reservoir with the brakes. The output of the reservoir to the clutch master cylinder is higher than the output to the brake master cylinder, which means if you were to lose fluid, the clutch would quit working before the brakes quit working.

Alvon
</quote>

Ah, OK, thanks Alvon.

Now I don't mind either but was curious and drive a hydraulic unit in my truck that much heavier than the unit in the Fiat. :-)

[Rossonero404]

Re: Clutch

Just an observation...clutch throw seems a bit long, any way to possible shorten the distance?

[ciddyguy]

Re: Clutch

<quote author="rossonero404">
Just an observation...clutch throw seems a bit long, any way to possible shorten the distance?
</quote>

I doubt it being hydraulic but one never knows though as generally speaking, the hydraulic units are self adjusting. My truck's clutch throw is a tad long too and it's also a hydraulic unit, but I have no issues with a long throw clutch and was able to fairly quickly get used to the clutch in the Fiat.

Cable actuated clutches of yore did require periodic adjustments by you, the driver and at least on the 83 and 88 Hondas I had, they were very simple to do. A plastic nut is used to make the adjustment and you felt the actuator arm the cable connected to on the clutch fork and pushed in on the end until roughly a 1/4" free play was achieved and that brought the throw out to roughly half way up or perhaps 1/3 of the way up, it's been several years since I drove either so don't recall exactly and the actuator fork was right up front, driver's side of the motor where it enters the clutch housing and was very easily accessible.