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Differences between the various ECU flashes? - Page 2
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Thread: Differences between the various ECU flashes?

  1. #11
    Member Abarth500_John's Avatar
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    Let me preface this by saying that I am relatively new in modding cars in general so you can take my experience for what it is worth.

    When I picked up my 2018 Abarth last year, I definitely wanted to mod it so when I started doing research for aftermarket support, it was either Madness or EC. In the spring/early summer of this year, I got the funds to get EC's P2 mods and their tune and I did notice an increase in performance however the boost levels I was seeing weren't where I thought they should have been. On the P2 tune, I noticed that the car reached 24PSI of boost but trailed off significantly in the upper RPM range. If I recall, it started dropping boost after 4500RPMs to around 16PSI and the higher the RPMs I 'd go, the lower it got and boost settled to 12 PSI at redline. Keep in mind, the car is mechanically sound and at the time, only had 8K on the ODO.

    I did bring this info up to EC and my dealings with them were rather cordial and they were great to work with. After exchanging a few emails about my issue, I asked if I should be running the blue or yellow spring in the Forge BOV that I installed. They said that all of their testing was done using the blue spring and told me to swap the yellow spring out to see if this improved things. So after boost leak testing and swapping out the spring for the blue one in the BOV, I still had the issue of boost trailing off significantly at the higher RPM range. Needless to say I was quite puzzled as to why this was happening with my car as others on this forum mentioned that my boost levels should have been higher towards redline. Per a forum member suggestion, I tried running an E30 mix to see if this had any positive effect and unfortunately, I was still running into the same issue with boost. I pretty much just left it at that and ran the car as is but I started looking at other tuning options since mechanically, the car was sound.

    Saw a few forum members here talk about Tork and I gave them a call, explained what I was seeing and then ordered a tune with them to see if there would be any improvement in my car's performance. Got their hand held, filled out their form, and got the tune. I will be the first to admit that the directions they provide with the handheld to pull the stock file is lacking and pointed to wrong options but I was able to figure it out eventually. Once I got the tune loaded into the hand held, I flashed my car and initially, I thought something had gone wrong because it took about 10-15 minutes to flash the car as EC's flash method does take a while. I then went for a drive and noticed a few things:

    1. The car felt quite snappy/lively when driving which was a nice and perhaps that could have been attributed to the better throttle response.
    2. I was seeing 24PSI of boost up to redline on the higher gears. Car seemed to pull harder than before and felt more responsive in the upper RPM range

    Overall I was impressed with the Tork tune compared to the EC P2 tune from an overall driving experience. The car seems to run more consistently with Tork vs EC and with EC, I felt like my car would perform well on some days and others not so much. Never understood why but in the end, I felt like I got my moneys worth with the mods I purchased when running the tune from Tork.

    Like I said, you can take the above with a grain of salt and just wanted to share my experience with others.
    Last edited by Abarth500_John; 12-05-2019 at 03:24 PM.
    2018 Abarth 500 (Bianca Perla)

    - EC FMIC
    - EC V4.1 Intake
    - Alfa 4C Coilpacks
    - Forge BOV
    - Turbosmart WGA
    - 2.5in MPX Catback
    - KW V3 Coilovers
    - Black 17" Fifteen52 Turbomacs
    - Tork Tuned

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  3. #12
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    i have this on my 2017:
    [COLOR=#333333]1. Eurocompulsion Euro+ Drive ECU[/COLOR]
    [COLOR=#333333]2. Eurocompulsion V4 Intake[/COLOR]
    [COLOR=#333333]3. 4C Coil Packs[/COLOR]
    [COLOR=#333333]5. Spark plugs[/COLOR]

    [COLOR=#333333]the car pulls way harder than stock and i grin every time i get on it (and fwiw i own an F40 and dozens of other cars). I will be dynoing the fiat in the next couple weeks.[/COLOR]

  4. #13
    Member Abarth500_John's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ttforcefed View Post
    i have this on my 2017:
    [COLOR=#333333]1. Eurocompulsion Euro+ Drive ECU[/COLOR]
    [COLOR=#333333]2. Eurocompulsion V4 Intake[/COLOR]
    [COLOR=#333333]3. 4C Coil Packs[/COLOR]
    [COLOR=#333333]5. Spark plugs[/COLOR]

    [COLOR=#333333]the car pulls way harder than stock and i grin every time i get on it (and fwiw i own an F40 and dozens of other cars). I will be dynoing the fiat in the next couple weeks.[/COLOR]

    Cool man - glad the EC tune is working for you. Unfortunately, it didn't work so well with my setup and I would like to think that possibly, my car may have been an outlier since a lot of people seem to have no issues when running EC tunes. But then that begs the question, how many of those people have tried other tunes as well? How many actually have data logged and compared the differences? Probably even fewer who have even dyno'd both. Good reason is because it cost a lot to try out other tunes from other vendors.

    I still have my EC handheld so maybe one of these days I will dyno both Tork & EC's tunes and see what the numbers are on my car for myself....
    2018 Abarth 500 (Bianca Perla)

    - EC FMIC
    - EC V4.1 Intake
    - Alfa 4C Coilpacks
    - Forge BOV
    - Turbosmart WGA
    - 2.5in MPX Catback
    - KW V3 Coilovers
    - Black 17" Fifteen52 Turbomacs
    - Tork Tuned

  5. #14
    Lifetime Member texanbrit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abarth500_John View Post
    Let me preface this by saying that I am relatively new in modding cars in general so you can take my experience for what it is worth.

    When I picked up my 2018 Abarth last year, I definitely wanted to mod it so when I started doing research for aftermarket support, it was either Madness or EC. In the spring/early summer of this year, I got the funds to get EC's P2 mods and their tune and I did notice an increase in performance however the boost levels I was seeing weren't where I thought they should have been. On the P2 tune, I noticed that the car reached 24PSI of boost but trailed off significantly in the upper RPM range. If I recall, it started dropping boost after 4500RPMs to around 16PSI and the higher the RPMs I 'd go, the lower it got and boost settled to 12 PSI at redline. Keep in mind, the car is mechanically sound and at the time, only had 8K on the ODO.

    I did bring this info up to EC and my dealings with them were rather cordial and they were great to work with. After exchanging a few emails about my issue, I asked if I should be running the blue or yellow spring in the Forge BOV that I installed. They said that all of their testing was done using the blue spring and told me to swap the yellow spring out to see if this improved things. So after boost leak testing and swapping out the spring for the blue one in the BOV, I still had the issue of boost trailing off significantly at the higher RPM range. Needless to say I was quite puzzled as to why this was happening with my car as others on this forum mentioned that my boost levels should have been higher towards redline. Per a forum member suggestion, I tried running an E30 mix to see if this had any positive effect and unfortunately, I was still running into the same issue with boost. I pretty much just left it at that and ran the car as is but I started looking at other tuning options since mechanically, the car was sound.

    Saw a few forum members here talk about Tork and I gave them a call, explained what I was seeing and then ordered a tune with them to see if there would be any improvement in my car's performance. Got their hand held, filled out their form, and got the tune. I will be the first to admit that the directions they provide with the handheld to pull the stock file is lacking and pointed to wrong options but I was able to figure it out eventually. Once I got the tune loaded into the hand held, I flashed my car and initially, I thought something had gone wrong because it took about 10-15 minutes to flash the car as EC's flash method does take a while. I then went for a drive and noticed a few things:

    1. The car felt quite snappy/lively when driving which was a nice and perhaps that could have been attributed to the better throttle response.
    2. I was seeing 24PSI of boost up to redline on the higher gears. Car seemed to pull harder than before and felt more responsive in the upper RPM range

    Overall I was impressed with the Tork tune compared to the EC P2 tune from an overall driving experience. The car seems to run more consistently with Tork vs EC and with EC, I felt like my car would perform well on some days and others not so much. Never understood why but in the end, I felt like I got my moneys worth with the mods I purchased when running the tune for Tork.

    Like I said, you can take the above with a grain of salt and just wanted to share my experience with others.
    That echos what I've heard from many sources.

    In my mind it doesn't have to equate to "EC sucks", or take away from the enjoyment of any car with that tune. I'm still running EC, but a customized tune for my NGEN turbo. I suspect that the Tork tune might be better/faster but John has been waiting on me (for months) to get my butt in gear. I even have the handheld and I still haven't done my part of it. My car has been acting a bit odd, electrical issues, although it has stopped misbehaving now I've started actually chasing the issue, and frankly the car feels pretty fast with the EC tune, I'm not actively racing right now and well life.

    I do believe that John has spent more time combing through the tuning tables than anyone else in the US and that's reflected in his product, Toby is also no slouch and it's been very enjoyable working with him to make significant improvements to reach my current tune. I certainly don't want to go back to running piggyback or a stock tune.
    2013 500c Abarth - phase 3
    2012 500 Pop - daily

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  7. #15
    Lifetime Member Lifetime Member Saponetta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Romanoaf View Post
    This is actually entirely conjecture unless you know the specific protection values being hit, or at least compare it to a log with known values. It's impossible to tell what the environmental/hardware conditions are by a standalone log. I have seen direct comparisons of one tune to another, and it confirms that power delivery strategies are different, whether they're better or not is objective.


    I've had similar issues in Canada with petrocan (suncor)


    Most recently, at the buttonwillow global time attack; excellent build thread on a 124 specific forum- people much more serious than I am about quick laptimes- also, a few solo series champions with the 500, who's setup(s) I trust. Competition use/results are actually what swung me in that direction.


    The burden of proof is on the accuser- I have nothing to prove to myself apart from a comparison to stock, which I have logged and am content with (mild tune).
    Valid points made. I have no clue what's really going on in an ec file. The low boost is more likely than not torque tables that arent very well done. The limiters well their are about dozens of 1x1 tables in the ecm code. Who is doing what AMD who is accessing them cant really be known on protected files. But between my experiences mapping openflash, conversations with tork on his file, I can at least make educated guesses based off how I see the file performing/logs.

    And again, just because someone uses something doesnt make it superior. Have the people you mentioned tried other files?

    Seeing as how you are making counter claims and have an ec file available 24/7 to log, not sure hats a valid excuse against logs. Regardless, these issues are more stage 2 problems. The lower boost tunes seem to work reasonably well. So you may not even be experiencing some of them. I'm sure you afr are a mess in high rpm range. Which you could easily refute with a log. But if you're a stage 2 owner, I'd really love to see a log.

    As far as comparing power strategys; sure. That's not objective, nor the point. But claims a a stage 2 tune with some laughable power claim. In reality the file that I've seen in person run 16 to 18psi of boost after 4500ish rpm. from.the few people on here who actually post logs seen 14psi to 18psi, that's not a good file. It's not doing what is promised. It's really not able to accelerate any quicker than a stock car over any real distance.
    Last edited by Saponetta; 12-05-2019 at 04:18 PM.
    2013 abarth
    Spec 2+ clutch
    Working on new divided turbo setup
    Homebrew fmic w/ corsa forza hoses
    Stock Downpipe with cat and 2.25discharge
    Coils
    Homemade cowl intake
    ECB yellows/stop tech fluid
    Koni/vogtland
    Braces and strut mounts
    Corsa forza vento
    E30 blend

    2013 abarth tork tuned
    cowl intake, custom fmic and bypass valve, vogtlands, rear vette bilstiens, long 3 inch downpipe to stock rear section.

  8. #16
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    From post #9 onward, this has gone much better than all the EC / Tork flame wars of late. I'm fairly new to the community, and seeing all the hate over the very few off the shelf tuning options we have was a real downer. Lets keep up the good conversation! Data on how the tunes work, where they are strong and where they are weak is interesting, especially hard numbers.

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  10. #17
    Lifetime Member Lifetime Member Saponetta's Avatar
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    .
    Last edited by Saponetta; 12-05-2019 at 09:52 PM.
    2013 abarth
    Spec 2+ clutch
    Working on new divided turbo setup
    Homebrew fmic w/ corsa forza hoses
    Stock Downpipe with cat and 2.25discharge
    Coils
    Homemade cowl intake
    ECB yellows/stop tech fluid
    Koni/vogtland
    Braces and strut mounts
    Corsa forza vento
    E30 blend

    2013 abarth tork tuned
    cowl intake, custom fmic and bypass valve, vogtlands, rear vette bilstiens, long 3 inch downpipe to stock rear section.

  11. #18
    Lifetime Member Lifetime Member Saponetta's Avatar
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    Thays because romanoaf is at least a knowledgable intelligent owner. The other posts, well im.sure you read them. Still dont understand why people who claim their ec stage 2 doesnt do this dont just post log of consecutive 3rd and 4th gear pull. I mean of their file doesnt do it, good. Should be easy enough to prove. The ec owners that have come to our shop complaining ab oi ut how the car performs, they all behaved the same way.
    2013 abarth
    Spec 2+ clutch
    Working on new divided turbo setup
    Homebrew fmic w/ corsa forza hoses
    Stock Downpipe with cat and 2.25discharge
    Coils
    Homemade cowl intake
    ECB yellows/stop tech fluid
    Koni/vogtland
    Braces and strut mounts
    Corsa forza vento
    E30 blend

    2013 abarth tork tuned
    cowl intake, custom fmic and bypass valve, vogtlands, rear vette bilstiens, long 3 inch downpipe to stock rear section.

  12. #19
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    Hi Tweak
    TMC ECM GO PEDAL INJEN COLD AIR INTAKE DV GO FAST BITS EC FRONT MOUNT INTERCOOLER Neuspeed REAR SWAY BAR DNA SUB FRAM BRACE DEFI BOOST GAUGE CHASSIS BRACES NEU-F PERFORMANCE EXHAUST SPORT MUFFLER

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