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Has anyone considered a lightweight 12v battery? - Page 7
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Thread: Has anyone considered a lightweight 12v battery?

  1. #61
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    That's a much better location, for those of us who don't take more than one passenger.

    Relocating my 3Lb 12V there the wires to & from would probably double the total weight! I keep a little jumpstarter there, which you pretty much need once the OEM 12V reaches 22 months.

    Please refresh my memory: What size Antigravity? Gas or electric 500?

  2. #62
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    ATX-20 in a Sport. It was worth the work to move to me. Nothing is in the way of checking the transmission fluid level, adjusting the shift cables, or changing the shift cable bushings. Also gets the few pounds the AG battery weights off the front of the car. I can reach the reset button on the AG from the driver's seat if ever needed (there is a hole in the ammo can for this).

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  4. #63
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    500e Sport has no "transmission fluid" or "shift cables", so it seems like you have a gas 500 Sport which needs much more 12V power since it has an engine (that needs cranking).

    Yes, compared to my 3-pound battery, your 5Lb is more worth the work to relocate, but its 15 actual amp-hours appear to be overkill for a 500e, lasting at least a week parked unplugged, before needing the "restart" (self-jumpstarting) button.

    Antigravity says their "restart" batteries shut themselves off when they've discharged to 12.4V.
    My 500e charges the 12V to a maximum of 14.34V. For 12V automotive Li-ion* that's about 52% to 94%, which makes them last a LONG time. Probably longer than the drive battery!
    *LiFePO4 (Lithium Iron Phosphate)

    So based on what I know now from my CHEAPEST 12v, it seems to me the PERFECT 500e 12V is a $130 1.3Lb Antigravity ATZ7 "restart": No manual disconnect switch needed, about 97% less weight than OEM at the same initial cost but cheaper long-term due to longevity, & probably lasting at least all weekend unplugged without having to hit the "restart" button on Monday morning.

    & at THAT weight the stock position leaves nearly nothing to gain by relocation.

    EDIT: Further use of my 3Lb $20 3Ah AGM could show:
    - If it's sufficient for long-term use, with or without shutting it off while parked unplugged, or
    - If not, then will a slightly larger heavier AGM be okay, like 4.2Lb 4Ah, 4.5Lb 6Ah, etc, or
    - If something like a 1-2Lb $65-$86 1.5-3Ah Li-ion will be okay, such as by lasting all weekend from 6pm Fri to 8am Mon, although if you don't already have the necessary $40+ jumpstarter, you may as well go with the Antigravity ATZ7 since it has that built in.
    Last edited by ElectricTireShredder; 10-20-2020 at 05:13 AM.

  5. #64
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    But I will bring this one more time - is it overall worth the ordeal?
    The time, investment... to shave off 20 lb from over 3500 lb. It does not make any difference for range. Yes, 20 here, 20 there... but unless we can drop something like 500 lb from the weight, the impact will be insignificant.
    Current rides: 2019 Chevy Bolt LT, 2016 Audi Q5 Premium
    Previous rides: 2014 FIAT 500e, 2016 KIA Forte5 SX 1.6 T-GDI, A/T, 2016 FIAT 500X Trekking Plus AWD, 2015 KIA Forte5 SX 1.6 T-GDI, M/T, and many more...

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  7. #65
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    Range is not the issue. Was it overall worth it? Good question, thanks for asking, & the answer is "Yes":

    I immediately saved about half the cost of replacing my 12V. Depending on longevity, I could save 80% with subsequent $20 replacements. I shaved nearly FORTY pounds from one of the absolute worst possible locations for excess weight (high ahead of the front hubs) & I can therefore FEEL its significant impact in speedbump handling.

    OTHER users might be more inclined with virtually NO EXTRA EFFORT* to simply replace the 12V when needed, with Antigravity's ATZ7, to save cost long-term due to longevity** AND eliminate the OEM need to carry a jumpstarter. They'll also feel the improvement of nearly 40Lb shaved from high forward, even without removing the OEM tray like I did.


    * Just add the automotive terminal adapters.
    ** Same initial cost as a good OEM.


    My personal "ordeal" was a few minutes with a hacksaw & drill. The worst part was lifting out the heavy worn-out OEM, & I saved myself the ordeal of lifting another back in!
    Last edited by ElectricTireShredder; 10-20-2020 at 10:24 PM.

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  9. #66
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    Hmmm, I wonder how much there is of a placebo effect and how much there is a real improvement.

    I completely agree, heavy weight, high up is not good. But then, half of your body is higher than that anyway.
    And then, front has about 1500 lb weight. Would 1460 be noticeable? Maybe...
    I am not denying, I am just thinking out loud.

    I agree completely that at the time when the battery needs to be replaced, sure, stick a smaller, lighter one. How much would be saved in the long run? I am not certain. In all cars I had maybe I had to replace the battery once in their life - considering my time to keep the car was not longer than 7 years.

    Again, I am not denying there is an improvement, I am just thinking if it is really so significant. I would really have to feel that.

    It kind of reminds me of guys saying how much better car drives when CAI is installed. Well, it is louder... and the dyno graphs show maybe increase from 185 to 187 HP in peak (basically margin of error). Otherwise same.
    Or stabilizer bushings - replace OEM with polyurethane. I did not feel anything. Same car...

    Most likely it is just me.
    Current rides: 2019 Chevy Bolt LT, 2016 Audi Q5 Premium
    Previous rides: 2014 FIAT 500e, 2016 KIA Forte5 SX 1.6 T-GDI, A/T, 2016 FIAT 500X Trekking Plus AWD, 2015 KIA Forte5 SX 1.6 T-GDI, M/T, and many more...

  10. #67
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    I think that placebo effect is pretty unlikely, based on my thought train in the moment:

    "Oh, crap! Here are those darn speed bumps again! Well screw it, I'm in a hurry."
    (bu-dump bu-dump, without the normal SPROING!)
    "What!! OH! I deleted the battery. Could that be it?!".

    If I had even thought there might be a difference on speedbumps I would have made a video showing the speed & the sproing sound, but I am NOT going to heft that lead block back in to do it now!

    Note that removing weight from ahead of the hubs not only takes literally more than its share off the front, due to its leverage, but it also actually transfers that extra share ONTO the rear. Think of it like a teeter-totter with the front hub as the fulcrum.

    Driver body weight is also bad, & high, but it's longitudinally in a much less detrimental position between the front & rear hubs.

    Yes, good car 12Vs usually last 5-6 years, but some 500e users have had their 12Vs die in as little as 23 months, so after that we pretty much have to carry a jumpstarter. I blame heat, from the almost-too-hot-to-touch onboard charger right beside it. I try to always open my hood when charging, & I recently put a piece of styrofoam insulation in between, which may be why mine lasted so much longer, but like I noted above, I was really on borrowed time with an undated OEM 12V in a 7+ year old car that I got 5+ years ago, so I wanted to replace it anyway, prompted by a user whose younger 12V died & wouldn't even jumpstart.

    PU swaybar bushings is a great example! Note that I hate to slow down for corners or speedbumps, so I may be a bit overly sensitive to those aspects of performance than others: I had a car with front AND rear swaybars but the cornering was not neutral. I was able to tune it to be neutral by switching some of the bushings to PU to stiffen up that end, so in MY case, they definitely made a difference that I could feel. If I never slid it around a corner though I'd never notice. If you don't have speed bumps slowing you down on one of your normal routes, you won't notice switching to an ATZ7. You'll only notice that it lasts longer, & you don't need to carry a jumpstarter.

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  12. #68
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    We are drifting away from the topic, but regarding the case of PU bushings.
    Mine were at about 5k miles (so basically brand new) when I switched to PU.
    Really, nothing to notice and I take corners hard and fast. Hence the OEM tires did not make even 25k miles

    Folks who reported PU bushing were great had over 50k miles. Then worn vs new - definitely.
    Same pattern applies to tires.
    Everyone will say that the new tires are so quiet.
    Sure... all new tires vs worn old rubber will be quieter. Plus the thread is deeper and allows more air flow without the noise effect.

    But definitely Fiat 500e was the tossable car.
    Chevy Bolt - nah, not so much.
    Current rides: 2019 Chevy Bolt LT, 2016 Audi Q5 Premium
    Previous rides: 2014 FIAT 500e, 2016 KIA Forte5 SX 1.6 T-GDI, A/T, 2016 FIAT 500X Trekking Plus AWD, 2015 KIA Forte5 SX 1.6 T-GDI, M/T, and many more...

  13. #69
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    Drifting back on topic half-way down, I promise!

    Quote Originally Posted by PLP View Post
    the OEM tires did not make even 25k miles ... all new tires vs worn old rubber will be quieter.
    Ah! This may explain our slight difference of opinion: The OEM tires did not make even EIGHT thousand miles for ME.

    In my swaybar example, both the rubber & PU bushings were all brand new replacements, so that's not the issue. It was very noticeable to me because it didn't just mean I had to steer a bit less. It meant I didn't have to steer at all (front engine, RWD, 50.0/50.0 weight distribution). Of course with swaybars there are many variables between different vehicles, including the stiffness of the bars, & the lever-arms of the end link attachment points, which will alter the effectiveness of stiffer bushings.

    Similar to your example of new tires that you admit are in fact noticeably different from old ones. For some, the difference would be hearing the tires, & not hearing them at all (over wind & engine noise).

    Drifting back on topic, the battery deletion doesn't just make it so I don't feel the need to slow down as much. It makes it so I don't feel th need to slow down at all:

    Today I was again hurrying towards the speedbumps, but this time remembered the battery & decided to revert to my normal mode (in other cars) of pretending there are no speedbumps at all, & driving as fast as I felt comfortable based on all the OTHER factors like blind corners, crosswalks, etc. It is now fine.


    Note that these are NOT the absolute worst bumps I've encountered. Maybe "only" about second-worst. On the very worst ones I may still have to slow down more than in an eGolf.

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