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Thread: 500e Battery Degradation?

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dmitry View Post
    Is there a charging station somewhere in Century city? I'm about to move to LA for work and my office will be in Century City, and I'm thinking of buying 500e. PLease advise! Thanks!
    Check out http://www.plugshare.com and filter by the type of station you're looking for (in this case, J-1772). There's also a phone app availalbe.
    2013 Fiat 500e

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    Have 2016 500E with 20K miles. I have recently noticed that after driving fully charged for 5-10 miles the miles left goes to 67 miles. It has done this 3 times now.
    This never happened before. I charge to full with both Level 1 and Level 2 chargers. Could it be a calibration or sensor issue? Just want to make sure the batteries are holding a charge correctly....Any advise or comments would be most appreciated. Thanks, Marty S.

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    What's the temperature? Temp severely affects the range meter, or more aptly named guess-o-meter (GOM). The GOM uses recent efficiency and current driving data to determine its guess of remaining range. Because of battery heating when it's cold, when a 500e first fires off in cold weather the efficiency is terrible. So the GOM rapidly drops its guess on the range.

    On a typical 35 degree day here in Georgia, I can start off at home with the range meter sitting at 91 or 92. Within a mile it's dropped to 85-86 and within 5 miles it's down below 70 miles of range showing.
    It'll drop even faster if the heat is on. But once the battery warms the up arrow on the GOM will activate and the range will either hold for several miles or even rise after that. This is based on the fact the the efficiency of the warmer battery is improving the potential range.

    I know it's annoying, but it's simply not possible to trust the GOM to give anything close to accurate information. It shows 60 miles left when you are getting on the highway and push the 500e to 77 MPH. That 60 miles will drop like a brick within 3-5 miles at that speed.

    ga2500ev

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marty View Post
    Have 2016 500E with 20K miles. I have recently noticed that after driving fully charged for 5-10 miles the miles left goes to 67 miles. It has done this 3 times now.
    This never happened before. I charge to full with both Level 1 and Level 2 chargers. Could it be a calibration or sensor issue? Just want to make sure the batteries are holding a charge correctly....Any advise or comments would be most appreciated. Thanks, Marty S.
    Hello Marty,
    I certainly understand why this would be concerning. If you are unable to determine the cause of this with the assistance of fellow forum members, I suggest connecting with your certified dealer as they are in the best position to assist. If you decide to go this route, please know that we are available via private message if you are in need of any assistance with that process.
    Laura
    FiatCares

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    Quote Originally Posted by ga2500ev View Post
    What's the temperature? Temp severely affects the range meter, or more aptly named guess-o-meter (GOM). The GOM uses recent efficiency and current driving data to determine its guess of remaining range. Because of battery heating when it's cold, when a 500e first fires off in cold weather the efficiency is terrible. So the GOM rapidly drops its guess on the range.

    On a typical 35 degree day here in Georgia, I can start off at home with the range meter sitting at 91 or 92. Within a mile it's dropped to 85-86 and within 5 miles it's down below 70 miles of range showing.
    It'll drop even faster if the heat is on. But once the battery warms the up arrow on the GOM will activate and the range will either hold for several miles or even rise after that. This is based on the fact the the efficiency of the warmer battery is improving the potential range.

    I know it's annoying, but it's simply not possible to trust the GOM to give anything close to accurate information. It shows 60 miles left when you are getting on the highway and push the 500e to 77 MPH. That 60 miles will drop like a brick within 3-5 miles at that speed.

    ga2500ev


    Well, I am not sure about that.

    As I mentioned earlier, I have been using ScanGauge to monitor battery/charger/motor parameters. One of them is HV battery temperature. It also reports the cooling/heating loop inlet/outlet temperatures.
    I have found that no matter how cold it was, the battery would not be heated. Sure, it would warm up itself by charge/discharge cycles when driving, but the battery heating loop will not kick in at all.

    The lowest temp I found of the battery was +25 F with ambient being around +15 F.
    However, when charging the heater turns on.
    There are two stages it turns on, though. One when you plug in and walk away (ignition off) then the heater is at about 2 kW.
    However, when you are sitting in the car when plugged in, say ignition is ON, then the heater kicks in at 7-8 kW and tries to increase the battery temp very quickly. The loop would easily hit over 100 F. Max I recorded was slightly over 120 F (inlet).


    With this being said - I did notice a quick range drop after fully charged. I guess that is a quick adjustment to what battery management thinks will happen based on the current conditions.
    Keep in mind a few things.
    When you take off with full charge, regen braking is very limited and actually not available for the first 2-5%. Then it is up to 10 kW or so.
    Add cabin heating - the range will be adjusted accordingly. This one is very peculiar, because it takes a large power draw in the first minutes to ramp up the temp inside and then it goes into steady, med/low load.


    Finally, I personally NEVER reached the range presented by the meter.
    I had a few times shown 122 miles after full charge. I could squeeze max 80 miles and that was coming back with over 160 MPGe average and 2% left. What that tells me is that the battery has some degradation in capacity. My current capacity reported by the battery management system is at 49.9 Ah. To get kWh from it, multiply Ah by number of batteries (94 cells) and their nominal voltage (or fully charged voltage, 4.25 V vs 3.75 - nominal). I get 20 kWh or 17.5 kWh for nominal voltage.
    I believe FIAT used the 4.05 V not 3.75 V as otherwise you will get 22 kWh vs 24 kWh.
    Another explanation could be - it is truly 22 kWh battery, but to recharge it it takes 24 kWh... You loose about 10% when charging.


    Sorry for long post. It might help a bit.
    Current rides: 2019 Chevy Bolt LT, 2016 Audi Q5 Premium
    Previous rides: 2014 FIAT 500e, 2016 KIA Forte5 SX 1.6 T-GDI, A/T, 2016 FIAT 500X Trekking Plus AWD, 2015 KIA Forte5 SX 1.6 T-GDI, M/T, and many more...

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  7. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by PLP View Post
    -snip- I have been using ScanGauge to monitor battery/charger/motor parameters. One of them is HV battery temperature. It also reports the cooling/heating loop inlet/outlet temperatures. -snip-
    What is this "ScanGauge" that you use? Where can it be obtained? Currently I have paid versions of AlfaOBD and Multiecuscan. It would be nice to have another tool in the software toolbox :-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by alben View Post
    What is this "ScanGauge" that you use? Where can it be obtained? Currently I have paid versions of AlfaOBD and Multiecuscan. It would be nice to have another tool in the software toolbox :-)
    https://www.scangauge.com/

    I am not sure if they already put this one into production, though.
    The one they sent me for testing had special firmware.
    Current rides: 2019 Chevy Bolt LT, 2016 Audi Q5 Premium
    Previous rides: 2014 FIAT 500e, 2016 KIA Forte5 SX 1.6 T-GDI, A/T, 2016 FIAT 500X Trekking Plus AWD, 2015 KIA Forte5 SX 1.6 T-GDI, M/T, and many more...

  9. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by PLP View Post
    https://www.scangauge.com/

    I am not sure if they already put this one into production, though.
    The one they sent me for testing had special firmware.
    That needs to be confirmed before anybody else tries it. A ScanGauge operating as a standard OBD reader can damage the 500e.

    @PLP, what functions does your ScanGauge provide for the 500e?

  10. #19
    Senior Member PLP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rkw View Post
    That needs to be confirmed before anybody else tries it. A ScanGauge operating as a standard OBD reader can damage the 500e.

    That's why I said that 500e version might not be for sale yet... However, the regular one will not do any harm. I actually confirm it with their engineer. I connected SG and it did not detect ECU, did not connect. Yet, no errors were created.
    He confirmed that their system does not send signal or something like that and is unable to damage ECU.

    Quote Originally Posted by rkw View Post
    @PLP, what functions does your ScanGauge provide for the 500e?
    So far I get the following:

    BIN - Battery Inlet Temperature (F)
    BOT - Battery Outlet Temperature (F)
    RAD - Radiator Inlet Temperature (F)
    BTM - Battery Miles (1000's of Miles)
    MXT - Max Cell Temperature (F)
    MXV - Max Cell Voltage (Volts)
    MNT - Minimum Cell Temperature (F)
    MNV - Minimum Cell Voltage (Volts)
    SOC - State of Charge (%)
    FAH - Full Amp Hour Capacity (Amp Hrs)
    RAH - Remaining Amp Hr Capacity (Amp Hrs)
    BVT - Battery Voltage (Volts)
    SOH - HV Battery State of Health (%)
    SHC - HV Battery State of Health – Capacity (%)
    SHR - HV Battery State of Health – Resistance (%)
    HBC - HV Battery Current (Amps)
    HBT - HV Battery Temperature Average (F)
    HBV - HV Battery Voltage (Volts)

    He said he is developing more. I am not sure though if we will be going into deep scans or connecting to "yellow connector" type of stuff.


    Thanks to those I learned how the battery charging works.
    It is a quite interesting algorithm. At least for the 2014.

    Based on Level 2, full 6.6 kW,
    If you plug it in to start immediate charging, it will kick in about 2 kW heater to warm up the battery if the battery is below 64-66 deg F. Once the temp is reached, it will turn off. Before the temp is reached, as you expected, the battery is being charged with about 4 kW only.
    However, if ignition is on - it will use about 6-8 kW heater to quickly increase the temp. Hence, until the temp is reached no charging is taking place. Yes, it hits above charger capacity. I could see current flow from the battery when plugged in and charging. I could read 6.8 kW load on my charger monitor, while battery was supplying another 300-600 W.

    Volts - also interesting. Full reaches 400 V (once was 401 V). The lowest was about 315 V or so. At 5% under possibly full load.

    Capacity - I started with 50.1 Ah, then dropped to 49.2 Ah, to recover to 49.9 Ah... weird.
    But definitely, even at 0% (cluster) or almost there, Ah is still at about 5% (2.5 Ah).

    Finally, battery temperature when driving.
    The more charged the battery, the less heat is being produced. Weird, huh?
    It looks like the lesser the charge, the more it must work, the more heat it will give off.
    Same trip, same conditions (used about 20% charge each time), battery at 80% when leaving, it will gain 35 F to 50 F. While with 30% it will hit 55-60 F. Which is nice, because it will spend less time on warming it up.
    Current rides: 2019 Chevy Bolt LT, 2016 Audi Q5 Premium
    Previous rides: 2014 FIAT 500e, 2016 KIA Forte5 SX 1.6 T-GDI, A/T, 2016 FIAT 500X Trekking Plus AWD, 2015 KIA Forte5 SX 1.6 T-GDI, M/T, and many more...

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    alben (02-03-2020), ElectricTireShredder (04-18-2020), rkw (02-04-2020)

  12. #20
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    Thanks PLP! This is really good information you have come up with that can not be found anywhere else. That's why I like forums like this over facebook groups. It seems like forum members are more technical oriented, vs facebook simple chit chat.
    Last edited by alben; 02-03-2020 at 10:53 PM.

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