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Thread: Yellow Dallara X-1/9

  1. #11
    Amministratore Fiat500USA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dart1.4t View Post
    what does it refer to? i mean i know they don't rate them like american cam grinders, probably the phasing of the opening/closing events instead of lift/duration. but without 4 numbers does that mean it's the same lobe size intake and exhaust?
    On this cam, the timing and duration are the same for the intake and reversed for the exhaust lobes. That's the case for most Fiat cams back then.

    Last edited by Fiat500USA; 11-01-2013 at 08:39 AM. Reason: clarifiied
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    This refers to the amount of overlap of the intake and exhaust valves - or the degrees of crankshaft rotation during which they are both open. On a 35/75 cam, the intake valve opens 35 degrees BTDC, and the exhaust valve closes 75 degrees ATDC. So, in terms of crankshaft rotation, the intake and exhaust valves are open together for 290 degrees of the total 360 degrees of crankshaft rotation (35+75+180=290). This is a fairly mild profile (most FIAT engines of that era were about 270 degrees of overlap).On the coupe's2.0L full house motor, we are running 304 degrees of overlap. Still very streetable, but pretty spectacular from about 4200 -8000 rpms. It takes a ton of other modifications to run that kind of cam, but for a naturally aspirated street motor, it's the difference between "fast" and "really fast". I think the coupe is pictured somewhere on this site, along with a list of the other mods that make it work for the street.

    The ral question on the Dallara is whether to keep it all Italian. I have watched videos of X's with the early version of the V-Tec conversion running 210 HP, and given how light this Dallara is (1794 lbs), that may be enough to put a smile on my face. Right now I am leaning toward a TB intake and Megasquirt system on the 1.5L SOHC motor in there now, or maybe trying to fit a 1.4 MA in there with 200+HP.

    Have a look at this X running 210 HP with the early V-Tec conversion and let me know what you think.



  3. #13
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    That's a really tough call.... I mean that looks like a really tract-able amount of power and quite fun indeed... like, a LOT of fun maybe? heh.
    If you can get to 200/210hp and keep it all Fiat and you think it won't be a PITA to keep tract-able, and parts are available, etc. then there might be inherent value in doing so. But, if you want to go really fast (and in your stable, I think this would be the chassis/platform to really have an all-out fast car), then I don't see any harm in going with a V-Tec or Shelby swap option, and heck if you are going to spend the time/$/effort of up-rating the engine, and you have a window of opportunity to do so, you may as well go for a 240hp target assuming the chassis and tranny can handle it (which after watching some of those hill climb and track events apparently they can for at least ONE race, ha!). The Vtec platform is well understood and developed, and might be the most reliable and tunable platform to go with if targeting higher horsepower. I know the wheels are staggered, but is the rear 8 or 9 inches? You may have to go wider and sacrifice some under-steer for traction.
    That car sounds great in the video!

    Quote Originally Posted by sptcoupe View Post
    This refers to the amount of overlap of the intake and exhaust valves - or the degrees of crankshaft rotation during which they are both open. On a 35/75 cam, the intake valve opens 35 degrees BTDC, and the exhaust valve closes 75 degrees ATDC. So, in terms of crankshaft rotation, the intake and exhaust valves are open together for 290 degrees of the total 360 degrees of crankshaft rotation (35+75+180=290). This is a fairly mild profile (most FIAT engines of that era were about 270 degrees of overlap).On the coupe's2.0L full house motor, we are running 304 degrees of overlap. Still very streetable, but pretty spectacular from about 4200 -8000 rpms. It takes a ton of other modifications to run that kind of cam, but for a naturally aspirated street motor, it's the difference between "fast" and "really fast". I think the coupe is pictured somewhere on this site, along with a list of the other mods that make it work for the street.

    The ral question on the Dallara is whether to keep it all Italian. I have watched videos of X's with the early version of the V-Tec conversion running 210 HP, and given how light this Dallara is (1794 lbs), that may be enough to put a smile on my face. Right now I am leaning toward a TB intake and Megasquirt system on the 1.5L SOHC motor in there now, or maybe trying to fit a 1.4 MA in there with 200+HP.

    Have a look at this X running 210 HP with the early V-Tec conversion and let me know what you think.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9WE4pNzABE


    ^^^some nice pics of other k-swapped D's and X's...
    Last edited by shagghie; 11-01-2013 at 12:13 PM. Reason: Added vid at bottom
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    Very nice! I'm always looking for an X1/9, but the Dallara stuff is even cooler!

    For anyone that doesn't know about Mr. Dallara, you need to study up on him! For more info, go to Indianapolis and visit the Dallara "factory" and take the little tour and check out the exhibits. They make all the Indy, Indy Lites, and other bodies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shagghie View Post
    I think he's going to be dropping something much more powerful in there from either Honda or Shelby.... or just adding a turbo good for 210hp... from a car that weighs 1700 something pounds, too.
    One of the bertone techs at my family dealership swapped a 2.5 turbo and transaxle out of a 1988 Daytona pacifica into a 1987 bertone, at first he wanted to do a Peugeot 406 Mi16 swap but he did the g-body motor/transaxle swap instead. Car would run with my big turbo,75 shot, non mca jet 5 speed Conquest tsi.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fiat500USA View Post
    On this cam, the timing and duration are the same for the intake and reversed for the exhaust lobes. That's the case for most Fiat cams back then.

    this is what i figured. so that would in reality be 35/75-75/35

    i was just curious why they only listed one lobe. and i struggled with the assumption it was symetrical because the numbers for the second lobe would still be inverted. not to mention most cam grinders i've used have a prefereance to run the cam a little advanced, especially on an engine without an abundance of valve area. a cam like that might actually be installed something like 39/71 79/31 to preserve a little more compression.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by dart1.4t View Post
    this is what i figured. so that would in reality be 35/75-75/35

    i was just curious why they only listed one lobe. and i struggled with the assumption it was symetrical because the numbers for the second lobe would still be inverted. not to mention most cam grinders i've used have a prefereance to run the cam a little advanced, especially on an engine without an abundance of valve area. a cam like that might actually be installed something like 39/71 79/31 to preserve a little more compression.
    Yeah, it really is a 35/75-75/35 cam but it is called 35/75 for short. By the way, do you see the US cam spec - 10/54-54/10 ? Euro cam specs were like 26/68-68/26 and that is a big reason why the Fiats lost like 20 -30HP (80 hp compared to 100-110 HP) when they came to the US. The first thing you did with a Fiat back in the 70s was desmog it, throw all the crap emissions controls off (sorry about that enviromentalists ) , then if you had the $$, change the cam and the carb. The carbs here were also tiny compared to Europe - they went from 34mm or larger down to 30mm. The 1290 cc SOHC had a bigger carb in Europe than the US 2L Twin Cams!

    The only other thing that was the missing was the dual outlet Euro exhaust manifold and the high compression pistons which were usually like 9.8:1 in Europe. We had 8.0:1! If you made these changes and turned the car back to Euro specs you had a great running, reliable car. Add a hotter cam(s), big Weber and free-flow exhaust and you had one seriously sick Fiat.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sptcoupe View Post
    Shaggie's dad here. I am basically looking at three options. A turbo package on the FIAT 1.9L SOHC FI motor in it now, good for about 195 HP; a Honda V-TEC making 240 HP; or a tweaked Shelby turbo 2.0L good for about 220 HP. The car reportedly only weighs 1974 lbs. soaking wet, so it won't take much to make it scoot. But then I just got a call about an ABARTH 1.4 Multi taken out of a wrecked car. Hmmmmm.
    While the MultiAir Turb is tempting, why not use a more modern turbo version of the original engine?
    The SOHC engine used in your X was later used in the FWD Uno Turbo and Punto Turbo cars in Europe. In the Punto GT, it was rated at 135HP (stock). However, in England, tuner versions of those engines show up on UK Ebay all the time with 180HP or so, and over 200 HP is available easily. Google Punto GT tuning and you'll find folks in Europe that still supply that market.

    An engine with the ECU and loom can probably be bought for $700 or so, but shipping will be about $1000 more from England. You will also need an Uno GT gearbox to supply a taller ring and pinion for your car, and those are cheap too. I have/ am doing this with my Lancia Scorpion: sourced a Fiat Coupe Turbo engine/ gearbox and had them shipped here. With mods, it will easily put out 325+ hp in a 2400lb car; I'm using 037 style front and rear bumpers and wheels and rear scoops. Should be fun.

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    I did some initial research on the Punto motor, but never got past the tranny issue. These are excellent ideas that I will look into. Many thanks.

    I have now decided that it has to be a FIAT motor or it just becomes another kit car that is novel and fun to drive, to be sure, but missing the essence of what the car was to the motoring world when it came out. In the interim, I am putting on a custom header and low-restriction exhaust, which will get rid of the cat and hopefully make a few more ponies. It is also getting re-sprayed and the interior is being refreshed, as well. I'll get Shagghie to post some pics when it out of the paint shop. In the meantime, he has a pic of the header. Can you post that please?

    Thanks again for the thoughts. We have owned a couple of 128's over the years, but I basically left them stock, and have never had an X, so I'm all ears.

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    Quote Originally Posted by redred View Post
    WOW!! Now that's a beauty! Drop a newer Multi-Air 1.4L Turbo in that bad boy!!!!

    Hello Everyone,

    I'm new to the forum, but not Fiats as the X showcased here was mine.

    I know this is an old thread, but a friend of mine just sent me this link.

    Tyrone
    Last edited by Fiat500USA; 05-24-2016 at 07:20 AM. Reason: fixed quote tag

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