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Thread: High speed braking=SCARY

  1. #21
    Member Indie500L's Avatar
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    1000 miles may have the engine some what broken in but the brakes are still new - if they were a little damp you made them steam at that speed and your tires are probably not gripping fully yet either. Rule of thumb from my motorcycle riding days "Don't go fast next to anything that can move!"

    As for the 500L due to a slow GPS, like 1000 feet slow, I had to brake from 30MPH to avoid missing a drive way where I wanted to turn and I must say it hauled down to a stop very nicely.
    Last edited by Indie500L; 09-10-2013 at 07:27 PM.

  2. #22
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    So you don't have to be doing 90mph and brake to experience the wobble. I've had the same happen around 65mph under strong braking.

    Adding spacers to your wheels helps. 15mm on the rears noticeably increases stability. But I've found that the torsion bar does the most magic - this is an easy upgrade. New springs also help. The combination of the 3 essentially eliminates the wobble.

    The effect of spacers on this car is dramatic because of the narrow track.

  3. #23
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    Dancing - The equivalent to this.



  4. #24
    Member Indie500L's Avatar
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    heeeeeeeyyyyyy that's not stopping ... your rear wheels are still spinning - looks more like a jump and landing on your nose!!

  5. #25
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    I'll note that sport shocks on stock springs will reduce some of the unloading...sport springs would help more. Again, lowering is not "the answer" to this, but will actually make it worse unless the spring/shock combination is properly matched.

    A weight transfer issue will alway occur in a panic stopping situation. If you watch professional drivers, they begin loading up the suspension well before the corner to "set" for the corner. That avoids the transfer issues, but isn't possible in a panic stop.

    Just remember, many torsion bars are lower than any other undercar component...and a big piece of metal that can be snagged, bolted directly to your rear suspension, is something to be aware of.

  6. #26
    Member AnthonyV's Avatar
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    The lowering springs out there I've seen so far may or may not help with this depending on which we're looking at. I've actually seen a few that lower the car significantly but go to softer progressive rates. Those are not going to help with this, and actually create a few new problems. Aside from the other issues you get with a spring like that, softer progressive rates aren't going to better control that weight transfer moment, especially since they start out soft and get firmer as they compress. Increased spring rates could in fact help, but I'm not sure any of the one's out there yet have all the right ingredients. In fact other then a lower ride height, I don't know that there's anything to be gained from springs for this car, at least not cars that are running street tires still. Race tires different story, and for a different thread (the Abarth I'm talking about here, other models are different kettle of fish all together).

    As for the larger rear torsion bar, it's not going to help with this either. At least not if we're talking about straight line braking. The torsion bar is designed to resist lateral twist, and reduce roll when the car is cornering. Straight line braking is a longitudinal force (fore and aft). Since this car has a beam rear suspension, and what we're talking about seems to occur on rough or rippled surfaces when the rear suspension is unloaded, the larger rear torsional bar will actually transfer more vertical force to both rear tires since it is more strongly tying them together. For example, with the rear unloaded under hard braking, if say the left rear tire hits a bump, the larger bar will actually transfer more of vertical force to both rear wheels, and in turn make the rear more loose. Keep in mind, I'm not saying more rear roll resistance won't help with this cars handling, just saying it won't for the situation we're discussing.

    Again that brings us back to dampers. Better dampers with more rear rebound damping will soften that motion we're talking about that causes the "wobble". I actually think uprated dampers are the answer to more then a few things here with this car, and would sort a lot of the inherent "nervousness" it has when getting driven flat out, but again that's for another thread. And again, not to say that the stock dampers are by any means bad, but I think here is one spot I'm fairly sure there's room for improvement. Not just for track built car's either but road cars as well.
    Last edited by AnthonyV; 09-11-2013 at 05:47 PM.

  7. #27
    A rear set of Konis with adjustable rebound is just what the DR. ordered!

    abarth500forum.com fiat124spiderforum.com fiat500lusaforum.com fiat500xforum.com

  8. #28
    Lifetime Member Lifetime Member SeaDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fiat500USA View Post
    A rear set of Konis with adjustable rebound is just what the DR. ordered!
    Do you have a set of those installed? If so, what setting are you using?
    Max
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  9. #29
    Moderator Robert Nixon's Avatar
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    "Just remember, many torsion bars are lower than any other undercar component...and a big piece of metal that can be snagged, bolted directly to your rear suspension, is something to be aware of. "

    Are you saying that cars shouldn't have torsion bars? Or that the bar on a Fiat is too low? What I'm thinking is that even if you buy a larger bar than the stock Abarth bar, it adds maybe 5mm to the size of the bar, and assuming the bar is still centered the same, we're talking about the replacement bar being maybe 2.5mm lower to the ground.

    Maybe I'm missing something but that doesn't sound like an issue to me.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by SeaDawg View Post
    Do you have a set of those installed? If so, what setting are you using?
    Yes, I'll have more about them on the blog, but I'm a big Koni fan for years. Konis out of the box are set up for a stock suspension and can be either softer or stiffer than stock shocks, depending on what the Koni development engineers determined was best. On the Koni Sports available for the 500, you can adjust the rebound settings to suit your preference. My preference in suspension setup is generally well controlled rebound, and not the slammed look. If the suspension is too stiff, it isn't going to work in the real world with the rotten north east roads we have here.

    I installed the Konis one have turn stiffer than delivered because I also have lowering springs and wanted the rebound to keep up with the stiffer spring rate. Koni generally recommends installing the shocks on the softest setting and working your way up. The shocks aren't hard to take off and adjust, so that can be an option.

    abarth500forum.com fiat124spiderforum.com fiat500lusaforum.com fiat500xforum.com

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