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tharvey13
10-11-2012, 04:15 PM
On Tuesday night I noticed that there were puddles of oil under my Abarth. I called roadside assistance and they had my car towed to the nearest dealer which is in Huntsville, Alabama. I have never been to this dealer as I just moved to TN from VA, upon talking to them today they informed me that I may need to have the engine replaced and that they have to wait on Chrysler Corporate before they can move on with it. He mentioned something about it being a known issue but when pressed for details I could not get an answer on what exactly was wrong with it just that the engine will need to be replaced. This seems kind of sketchy to me as it was running fine with no indication lights at all. I have 9600 miles on it and had the oil changed at 4000 and 8000 miles by my dealer in VA along with the ECU recall done with the last oil change. I am bummed and have no estimate as to when I will get it back, I am in VA now and they are supposed to arrange for a rental car when I get back to TN.

bryanintowson
10-11-2012, 04:36 PM
Boo. Sorry to see your friend is in need of a heart transplant.

ScorpionSkins.com
10-11-2012, 08:47 PM
Yikes...not exactly good news.

Good luck with everything, please keep us updated!

Robert Nixon
10-11-2012, 08:51 PM
My guess is that if there were a "known issue" requiring engine replacement, it probably would have been mentioned a couple million times on this forum.

Unless they mean that "yeah, when all the oil leaks out of your engine it is "known" that you now need a new engine. This has to be covered under the warranty at least.

Abarth67
10-11-2012, 09:47 PM
This is not the first blown or engine reprot that has needed replacement. I am a little worried as my car has some oil leaking at the transmission to engine seam. I suspect a rear main seal but I have an appointment with the dealer in a week to check it out. This will not be good for FIAT if the engine needs replaced.

NeroAbarth
10-12-2012, 07:42 AM
Yikes! That's all I can say! I will be interested in hearing what the diagnosis is, and why they decided so quickly that you need a whole new engine. :EEK:

tharvey13
10-12-2012, 01:05 PM
Well I was unhappy with the dealer's explanation so I called Fiat Customer Service, the gentleman I spoke with there was very helpful and contacted the dealer. This was the response I received:

Dear Customer:

Case #: ******** VIN: ****************** Vehicle Description: FIAT 500 ABARTH
HATCHBACK

Hello Thomas,
This is ***** from the FIAT Information Center. You can reach me at
1-888-242-6342. My extension is *******. I just wanted to let you know that I
spoke to a service advisor at FIAT of Huntsville. She told me that they are
waiting on an engine cooler, which she says was approved by Chrysler. She says
it may take five days to come in. She says it's a big job. She estimates that
you will have the vehicle back and repaired on the 29th (please note this is
subject to change). I hope this information is helpful to you. I will remain in
touch.
Thanks,
-*****

Note: This is a system generated message. Please do not reply.

Sincerely,
*****
Customer Assistance Center

So I guess it is not the entire engine but the engine cooler, I am not sure what caused the failure as it was driving fine, no lights and no indication of a problem until I found puddles of oil all under it, but when I had first spoke with someone at the dealer on Tuesday he had mentioned something about a cooling line for the Turbo???? and that they just repaired another one recently so maybe that is what he was referring to as the known issue. The other question is why would they need to get approval from Chrysler? I have the lifetime warranty and it is still well within the manufacturers warranty. I am wondering if they recommended the engine replacement and Chrysler only approved the Engine cooler.

NGEN
10-12-2012, 05:30 PM
Sometimes when larger components fail within a short amount of time with low mileage, a red flag can come up. Chrysler might have wanted to investigate because even dealerships can be shady with warranty claims. It is just a checks & balances thing. As for needing an engine, the service writer could be green or was originally just given a quick answer before really diagnosing it. Good luck on the repair. I'm sure it will be up and running in no time.

Berliner
10-12-2012, 08:03 PM
Sad to hear that your Abarth got Problems. Look at it from the bright Side and least Fiat knows about and started working on the Problem. I wonder if we will see a Recall on the Abarth in the Future.

FiatCares
10-16-2012, 04:42 PM
On Tuesday night I noticed that there were puddles of oil under my Abarth. I called roadside assistance and they had my car towed to the nearest dealer which is in Huntsville, Alabama. I have never been to this dealer as I just moved to TN from VA, upon talking to them today they informed me that I may need to have the engine replaced and that they have to wait on Chrysler Corporate before they can move on with it. He mentioned something about it being a known issue but when pressed for details I could not get an answer on what exactly was wrong with it just that the engine will need to be replaced. This seems kind of sketchy to me as it was running fine with no indication lights at all. I have 9600 miles on it and had the oil changed at 4000 and 8000 miles by my dealer in VA along with the ECU recall done with the last oil change. I am bummed and have no estimate as to when I will get it back, I am in VA now and they are supposed to arrange for a rental car when I get back to TN.

Please send me your VIN and studio name in a PM. I will look into this for you and speed up the repair process and help you in any way I can.

tharvey13
10-17-2012, 08:37 AM
Well after going back and forth with Fiat customer service and the dealer on the rental car situation I was informed yesterday that the part was in and my car should be done today. I still don't see how it has gone from the 29th as a best guess to what will hopefully be the 17th? I must say I am disappointed with the lack of a rental/loaner car from Fiat for major repairs under warranty, I thought that it was common practice but I was wrong. I am entitled to 5 days with my service contract however the dealer never called me back as I was promised. I just hope I get it back today and that it is fixed correctly. I miss Safford Fiat of Fredericksburg.

tharvey13
10-17-2012, 08:27 PM
Well I did not get it back today, I was told close of business tomorrow.

brasswoodsman
03-13-2015, 05:41 PM
I'm new to this forum, but I sure would appreciate any help. My warranty ran out on my 2012 Fiat Pop about 6-7000 miles ago. Today I took it in for inspection, and because the low oil pressure light had come on a few times, I asked them to check the oil pressure because I was concerned about it. The guy calls me back and asks if I'd heard any loud engine noise. No more than usual. He said that they're hearing what they think is a rod knocking, so they didn't even bother to check the oil pressure. But they did do the inspection. I bought this used at 30K miles and have really loved it, but have seen more than one post in this and other places talking about engine replacement, oil pressure lights, oil leaks, etc. I've got a bit of oil on my driveway, but I have no idea where it's coming from.

I'm feeling pretty completely hosed, because whatever the problem is, it likely didn't start 6-7000 miles ago. I've loved this car and now this. Brother-in-law works for Chrysler and I asked him if he could find out any info on this, and no one would get back to him. His advice was sell it. The engineering is known to have some issues with shoddiness.

My question? Just how hosed am I, or does anyone think that Fiat would do the right thing and fix this?

FiatCares
03-17-2015, 08:58 AM
I'm new to this forum, but I sure would appreciate any help. My warranty ran out on my 2012 Fiat Pop about 6-7000 miles ago. Today I took it in for inspection, and because the low oil pressure light had come on a few times, I asked them to check the oil pressure because I was concerned about it. The guy calls me back and asks if I'd heard any loud engine noise. No more than usual. He said that they're hearing what they think is a rod knocking, so they didn't even bother to check the oil pressure. But they did do the inspection. I bought this used at 30K miles and have really loved it, but have seen more than one post in this and other places talking about engine replacement, oil pressure lights, oil leaks, etc. I've got a bit of oil on my driveway, but I have no idea where it's coming from.

I'm feeling pretty completely hosed, because whatever the problem is, it likely didn't start 6-7000 miles ago. I've loved this car and now this. Brother-in-law works for Chrysler and I asked him if he could find out any info on this, and no one would get back to him. His advice was sell it. The engineering is known to have some issues with shoddiness.

My question? Just how hosed am I, or does anyone think that Fiat would do the right thing and fix this?


Hi brasswoodsman,

Could you please PM me with your VIN# and contact information? I would like to get some more information from you regarding your concerns.

doverosx
03-17-2015, 11:38 AM
The engineering is known to have some issues with shoddiness.

Just what the hell is that suppose to mean?

You bought a used car with an unknown history and this could've happened with any other car; including a Toyota. The Multi-Air engine is very strongly built, to specifications beyond what you'd have in a Toyota 1ZZ-FE.

SuperTony
03-17-2015, 11:48 AM
Brasswoodsman, I would give FIATCares an opportunity to research your situation. I know it is easy to get stressed vewry rapidly in a situation like this but my advice is to try to be patient and see how FIATCares can help. They are helping me currently and I am thankful for their assistance.

I would also advise starting a new thread so your post receives the proper attention. Best of luck.

brasswoodsman
03-18-2015, 06:24 AM
[QUOTE=doverosx;730911]Just what the hell is that suppose to mean?

Thanks, doverosx. You are absolutely right that it could happen with any car. I was at a party last week and one guy was talking about his 2002 hybrid Civic and how it was involved in some sort of class action lawsuit because of some defect. While he was telling me what an awful car it was, another guy came up, and he had the exact same car and loved it. Honda had replaced the batteries for free, and he had nearly 200K miles on it, and loves it. The other guy got rid of his a long time ago. So, sure, this could've happened to any car. As to how you know it had an unknown history, you might be a little off on that, but no biggie.

With respect to my brother-in-law, an engineer at Chrysler who used to be in drive train, his response when I told him that the low engine oil light had come on was to sell the car, because some of the (overseas) engineering was known to be shoddy.

I love this car. I'm a pretty utilitarian and unsentimental kind of guy—I buy cars that do the job at the lowest cost. This was different. I had one of these as a rental car—specifically asked for it when I saw it on the rental car lot, and after a week of driving it, decided I had to have one. Wife against it. She knew I wanted (and still do) a 4WD Toyota Tacoma, but that's a stupid car for a commute, and I don't have $30+K for a car. I've really enjoyed this car in a way I haven't enjoyed a car since my 1984 Civic—which was a revelation after my 1980 Chevette.

So, long story long, I work with a lot of engineers, though not automotive. I tend to listen to them because they tend to be very solution-focused. For BIL, who is an automotive engineer, the answer is simple: he—among others, according to him, think the Fiat engineering is shoddy—he'd sell the car. Not what I want to do, nor what I plan to do. I can live with the stupid busted armrest, which is very clearly engineered badly, because I get 40mpg, have a lot of fun driving this zippy little car I can park anywhere, and now and then get compliments on it. I was just looking for some daylight after my local shop—who could de totally wrong—said my car was all but dead.

brasswoodsman
03-18-2015, 06:29 AM
Thanks, SuperTony. Very stressed very rapidly is a great way of putting it.

I will do that—actually they have reached out to me, and my BIL at Chrysler recommended going that round. He said he'd try to help on his end. I will let you know what FIATCares has to say. Feel free to PM me with any suggestions. Thanks. Taking it in to my local dealer on Friday to see what they have to say. My local mechanic may be wrong—I sure hope so.

Fiat500USA
03-18-2015, 08:52 AM
...With respect to my brother-in-law, an engineer at Chrysler who used to be in drive train, his response when I told him that the low engine oil light had come on was to sell the car, because some of the (overseas) engineering was known to be shoddy.



Sorry to hear you are having a problem.

With all due respect to your brother-in-law, some might say the same thing about Chrysler. As far as the armrest, well that's a NAFTA only component, which was most likely done here. In any case, when it comes to cars with their 1,000s of components I'm sure there are always areas that can be improved on in any car including Fiats, Hondas, Mercedes, etc., etc.

However, with engineers like Paolo Martinelli responsible for developing the 1.4L MultiAir, I would have to say that Fiat engines are in an area pretty well sorted.


https://youtu.be/iHxBEJAlKzg

http://www.thescuderia.net/paolomartinelli.shtml

http://europe.autonews.com/article/20061113/ANE/61109016/altavilla-heads-fiat-powertrain

doverosx
03-18-2015, 09:08 AM
[QUOTE=doverosx;730911]Just what the hell is that suppose to mean?

Thanks, doverosx. You are absolutely right that it could happen with any car. I was at a party last week and one guy was talking about his 2002 hybrid Civic and how it was involved in some sort of class action lawsuit because of some defect. While he was telling me what an awful car it was, another guy came up, and he had the exact same car and loved it. Honda had replaced the batteries for free, and he had nearly 200K miles on it, and loves it. The other guy got rid of his a long time ago. So, sure, this could've happened to any car. As to how you know it had an unknown history, you might be a little off on that, but no biggie.

With respect to my brother-in-law, an engineer at Chrysler who used to be in drive train, his response when I told him that the low engine oil light had come on was to sell the car, because some of the (overseas) engineering was known to be shoddy.

I love this car. I'm a pretty utilitarian and unsentimental kind of guy—I buy cars that do the job at the lowest cost. This was different. I had one of these as a rental car—specifically asked for it when I saw it on the rental car lot, and after a week of driving it, decided I had to have one. Wife against it. She knew I wanted (and still do) a 4WD Toyota Tacoma, but that's a stupid car for a commute, and I don't have $30+K for a car. I've really enjoyed this car in a way I haven't enjoyed a car since my 1984 Civic—which was a revelation after my 1980 Chevette.

So, long story long, I work with a lot of engineers, though not automotive. I tend to listen to them because they tend to be very solution-focused. For BIL, who is an automotive engineer, the answer is simple: he—among others, according to him, think the Fiat engineering is shoddy—he'd sell the car. Not what I want to do, nor what I plan to do. I can live with the stupid busted armrest, which is very clearly engineered badly, because I get 40mpg, have a lot of fun driving this zippy little car I can park anywhere, and now and then get compliments on it. I was just looking for some daylight after my local shop—who could de totally wrong—said my car was all but dead.

If you listened to engineers long enough you should know by now that "we" are always better than "them" lol.

Wolfepaw
03-18-2015, 09:31 PM
[QUOTE=doverosx;730911]Just what the hell is that suppose to mean?

Thanks, doverosx. You are absolutely right that it could happen with any car. I was at a party last week and one guy was talking about his 2002 hybrid Civic and how it was involved in some sort of class action lawsuit because of some defect. While he was telling me what an awful car it was, another guy came up, and he had the exact same car and loved it. Honda had replaced the batteries for free, and he had nearly 200K miles on it, and loves it. The other guy got rid of his a long time ago. So, sure, this could've happened to any car. As to how you know it had an unknown history, you might be a little off on that, but no biggie.

With respect to my brother-in-law, an engineer at Chrysler who used to be in drive train, his response when I told him that the low engine oil light had come on was to sell the car, because some of the (overseas) engineering was known to be shoddy.

I love this car. I'm a pretty utilitarian and unsentimental kind of guy—I buy cars that do the job at the lowest cost. This was different. I had one of these as a rental car—specifically asked for it when I saw it on the rental car lot, and after a week of driving it, decided I had to have one. Wife against it. She knew I wanted (and still do) a 4WD Toyota Tacoma, but that's a stupid car for a commute, and I don't have $30+K for a car. I've really enjoyed this car in a way I haven't enjoyed a car since my 1984 Civic—which was a revelation after my 1980 Chevette.

So, long story long, I work with a lot of engineers, though not automotive. I tend to listen to them because they tend to be very solution-focused. For BIL, who is an automotive engineer, the answer is simple: he—among others, according to him, think the Fiat engineering is shoddy—he'd sell the car. Not what I want to do, nor what I plan to do. I can live with the stupid busted armrest, which is very clearly engineered badly, because I get 40mpg, have a lot of fun driving this zippy little car I can park anywhere, and now and then get compliments on it. I was just looking for some daylight after my local shop—who could de totally wrong—said my car was all but dead.

With all due respect to your BIL, he should stick to his brand he might actually know something about the engineering on. Me, I'll put my money on the Ferrari engineer who designed F1 engines that was involved with the design of this car, oh wait I did when I bought a 500 and 500L. I talked to my Fiat mechanic just recently and asked how the engines have fared over time given the small size and high RPM's they seem to love. He said the only engine issues he has seen so far were severe abuse issues and people red lining them too much. The fact is, your BIL has no idea what was done to that car prior to you buying it. That's why I never buy used cars. I've done it three times in my life and all three had major issues despite being "certified" or having dealer warranties. All related to how the car was treated prior to my ownership. I'm glad to hear you are willing to stick with it and came to these forums for input prior to taking one persons advice. The Fiat reps on this forum have come through for more than a few people and hopefully they do for you!

brasswoodsman
03-20-2015, 06:50 AM
Strangely, I almost never get into high RPMs with this car. Maybe that's the problem? I'm a very gentle driver with it, though a certain woman tells me I'm following cars too closely rather often. For whatever reason, because it tells me what kind of mileage it gets, I tend to try to max that as much as possible. With my CR-V, I don't much care—it gets what it gets, especially with a kayak on top, and I know it isn't going to get me 40mpg. But since I know that I can get 40 and more, I try to keep each tank as close to that as possible. That said, I like that it has as much get-up-and-go as it does, which comes in handy now and then.


I've only had one new car, and have had only good experiences with the used cars that I've bought, but nearly all of them were Hondas, the exception being a case of cheap car+bad judgement, an Oldsmobile. We'll see what today and my appointment with the dealer brings. I'll do my best to report back on the status of things.

brasswoodsman
03-20-2015, 11:36 AM
Just got a call from the service center at my local Fiat dealer. Lower rod knock. The fix is a lower engine block replacement, if I understood correctly. The service director said he's seen this before, but not on a car out of warranty, so he is going to contact the Fiat rep to see what they can do for me because it is only 6000 miles out of warranty, but also within four years. More when I have more.

brasswoodsman
03-20-2015, 07:14 PM
Does Fiat care? We shall find out.

Erica, the FiatCares social media care specialist, emailed to say that the service manager thinks the damage to my engine is as because "the previous owner did not bring the vehicle in for the N15 recall repair." I did, and within the warranty period, even though I had no idea about this issue. Here is the lowdown on that: http://www.fiat500usaforum.com/showthread.php?10004-Fiat-500-Recall-N15-Starter-Motor-Mounting-Bolts-on-early-cars

Erica also said that "We will get this sorted out." I hope that means what I hope that means, if you know what I mean.

Talked to the service manager at the local Fiat dealer at about 5:30 ET and he said he'd spoken with Erica earlier, and then the area manager, who apparently makes the call on these things. The area manager said she would authorize the repair of the busted armrest as a "one-time goodwill gesture" but as far as the motor is concerned, nope.

The service manager said he'd put a call into Erica but had not heard back from her. I sent her an email telling her what the service manager said. I don't expect to hear back from her until Monday, but this kind of thing always seems to happen on a Friday so you get to stew about it over the weekend.

I hope that Fiat will step up and do the right thing. But of course I'd be a fool not to be concerned that an auto company—after all the deaths caused by GM's negligence and other such things—might just say, "Well, tough luck."

Meantime, if anyone knows about the N15 issue, I'd very much appreciate hearing about it. On that post above, the stig (http://www.fiat500usaforum.com/member.php?1263-the-stig) says "Electrical power through bearings is a very bad thing. I work with welders every day. We always have to be aware of possible ground paths on the equipment we weld on so as to avoid damage."

I will update when I have further news. I just want my car back. I'm attached to this thing like I haven't been attached to a car pretty much ever.

Purgatory
03-20-2015, 08:05 PM
Continued good luck to you. Really hoping you get the happy ending you rightly deserve with your Fiat. Hoping the dealer does you right. Does not sound like any kind of driver abuse issue, at least by your.

I had no problem with the arm rest replacement on my wife's 500 Lounge. Is still under warranty, no way it should have shorn right off the mount, dealer saw it that way too, ordered the part and soon had it fixed at no cost to me. So far, all my issues with our Fiat's (very few) have been handled first class by our Studio, Benson Alfa-Fiat in Greer, SC. Wish all Studio's were that customer conscious.

brasswoodsman
03-20-2015, 09:07 PM
Thanks, Purgatory. The most abuse my Fiat has gotten is when my next door neighbor—being neighborly—blew the snow off it with his backpack blower. What are you going to do? Only a slight pit on the paint on the driver's side door. Sweetest neighbor you could ask for. Seriously. Brings in my garbage cans and newspapers, watches my house if I'm traveling and waters my plants, but he thinks the answer to everything is his leaf blower. I just try to get out when it snows before he does.

I just want my car back.

brasswoodsman
03-23-2015, 09:29 AM
Just got a call from Erica with the news that Fiat is going to take care of the repairs. Happy Monday? You bet!

FiatCares
03-23-2015, 09:41 AM
Just got a call from Erica with the news that Fiat is going to take care of the repairs. Happy Monday? You bet!

Happy to help! :)

Tweak
03-23-2015, 09:43 AM
Just got a call from Erica with the news that Fiat is going to take care of the repairs. Happy Monday? You bet!

VERY HAPPY indeed, glad it is being sorted for you.

doverosx
03-23-2015, 09:57 AM
Excellent!

FIAT/Chrysler should realize that some things you "just do it" without even thinking about it. It's called perceived service and goes a very long way in trumping the BS from Consumer Reports and the media that seems to love to hate these cars.

brasswoodsman
03-23-2015, 09:59 AM
As delighted as I am that Fiat is doing the right thing, and as excited as I am to get my car back, I still have to wonder if I'd have gotten such good treatment if my brother-in-law weren't a Fiat-Chrysler employee who could run interference on the inside. I try to think the best of people, but despite such legalities to the contrary, companies are not people, and they probably could have just said, "Sorry pal."

But I also like to think that this forum played a role—some companies actually get it that there is real reputational risk on social media, and real benefits to doing the right thing. They get to spend a little money that they can easily write off, and they get a very happy customer—me—talking about how delighted I am. And I am. FCA seems to get that.

jguerdat
03-24-2015, 07:28 AM
Excellent!

FIAT/Chrysler should realize that some things you "just do it" without even thinking about it. It's called perceived service and goes a very long way in trumping the BS from Consumer Reports and the media that seems to love to hate these cars.

It's worth noting the at least the initial refusal was from a dealership, not FCA. Further conversations have lots of variables when going up the line. It's not always the company that causes the headaches - you just have to be willing to take it up the line and do some (calm) talking yourself. I've done that in the past with similar results as reported here when the idiot dealer and even the extended warranty company refused to take care of the problem on a Honda. (Note to self - never again will I buy an extended warranty.)

BigDaddySRT
03-24-2015, 09:27 AM
As delighted as I am that Fiat is doing the right thing, and as excited as I am to get my car back, I still have to wonder if I'd have gotten such good treatment if my brother-in-law weren't a Fiat-Chrysler employee who could run interference on the inside. I try to think the best of people, but despite such legalities to the contrary, companies are not people, and they probably could have just said, "Sorry pal."

But I also like to think that this forum played a role—some companies actually get it that there is real reputational risk on social media, and real benefits to doing the right thing. They get to spend a little money that they can easily write off, and they get a very happy customer—me—talking about how delighted I am. And I am. FCA seems to get that.

You should really count your lucky stars.... you might even go buy a Lottery Ticket.

If you had an Oil Pressure issue due to low oil level, that's why the Studio didn't want to help you out.


This should be a reminder to everyone that you need to check your Oil Level regularly.

brasswoodsman
03-24-2015, 10:52 AM
[QUOTE=BigDaddySRT;731739]You should really count your lucky stars.... you might even go buy a Lottery Ticket.

If you had an Oil Pressure issue due to low oil level, that's why the Studio didn't want to help you out.


Oil level was fine. According to the service manager (for the record, Safford Fiat in Tysons Corner, Va.), there was no oil leak either. Drips may have been a result of some sort of valve(?) the 500 has that my corner garage didn't know to check. Apparently it can clog and cause oil drips. I check oil regularly(cold)--absolutely do not get the complaints about the dipstick--and never had to add oil.

It was the "area manager" who refused the engine repair.

steve6225
03-27-2015, 11:24 AM
My 2012 Pop is at the studio getting a new engine right now. The crankshaft main bearings failed. 27,000 miles. The mechanic told me that this is the fourth engine he has replaced.

brasswoodsman
03-30-2015, 06:36 AM
Wow. Do you know the cause? I'm still waiting to get mine back. Did it have to do with the improper grounding? Sounds like it might have.

FiatCares
03-30-2015, 11:37 AM
My 2012 Pop is at the studio getting a new engine right now. The crankshaft main bearings failed. 27,000 miles. The mechanic told me that this is the fourth engine he has replaced.

Hi steve6225,
I’m sorry to hear about your experience! Please let me know if I can be of any assistance to you during the repair process.

brasswoodsman
04-13-2015, 01:05 PM
Got my Pop back on Thursday. Running like a top, with a new armrest and a new 12000 mile warranty on my new motor. Thanks to my brother in law and Erica for helping get this done.

FiatCares
04-13-2015, 01:14 PM
So glad everything worked out! Let me know if you ever need any assistance in the future! :)