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DCSconnect
09-10-2012, 09:21 PM
I have a leak that appears to be coming from the mating of the transmission to the engine though honestly it is not easy to identify - not even sure if it is engine or transmission oil? It shows up first in the crack between the black plate and casing, probably dribbles back (you can see the drop on pic) before dripping down on under carriage "skid" plate and onto garage floor.

I've attached some pics and am wondering if anyone else has a similar leak? or if you can help ID oil type? The pic of the paper towel is what came out running it between the black plate and casing.

I've only had the car for 3 months, have about 700 miles on it and have not had it back to the dealer yet (it is over 100 miles away so I want to cover several things at one time, including the 1ST oil change).

Thanks for any advice...........and what a great car to drive!344234423443

Pinecone
09-11-2012, 02:03 PM
Someone else reported a rear main seal leaking. Not sure if an Abarth, but still a possibility.

DCSconnect
09-12-2012, 07:48 PM
Pinecone - I've tried finding the thread but so far no luck. I'm assuming you think it might be engine oil as opposed to transmission oil? I dread the thought of having the main seal replaced, not totally confident that the dealer has the experience / training to pull that off. But I'll have no choice as I suspect this will only get worse with time. Is that likely to be a "while you wait" repair - my guess is no. And if not, do the studios typically have "loaner" vehicles for longer repairs?

I'll update the result but I'm still 3 months out from the expected first oil change. Thanks for your reply.

deathshead
09-12-2012, 08:15 PM
hmm, that almost looks like the tranny leaking. Any wetness around the axle seals where the axles go into the trans?
Sometimes the seals can get pinched, etc during assembly.
The oil looks VERY clean for motor oil unless it was just changed?

DCSconnect
09-12-2012, 09:41 PM
I did check around the boots (wanted to make sure the clamps were installed) and everything looked fine. This leak seemed to be coming out from between the black plate and the casing - and it was at the bottom / end of the plate and not towards the top.

The oil has not been changed, but since I only have 700 miles on the car it is still pretty clean. I guess I am leaning towards thinking maybe transmission oil because the engine oil is so light I wonder if it could really hold together long enough to form a "drop" that stays in place? Also, I'm not noticing any changes on the dipstick level yet.

I don't even know where the transmission fill plug is located to check that level?

pastor passum
09-12-2012, 11:23 PM
About 3 weeks ago I took my Abarth in for it's first oil change. When they finished the service manager told me they found a slight oil leak on the transmission. They cleaned the area and wanted me to drive it a week or two and bring it back. They wanted to make sure it was leaking rather than just spilled fluid or whatever. Anyway, last week I took it back in and they confirmed it was leaking slightly. Not enough to drip in my garage but leaking none the less. They took pictures and sent them to Fiat. Fiat wants the transmission back! They called yesterday and said the new transmission was in. They've never replaced a transmission at my studio. She assured me they'd take their time and do it right.

While I appreciate the fact that Fiat wants the transmission back to see why it's leaking, I just hate seeing my new car being torn into. I'll keep you guys informed. Hopefully yours will be a simple fix.

DCSconnect
09-13-2012, 07:44 AM
I can understand your feeling leery........and I really appreciate you following up to let us know the results. I have this sinking feeling that I'll be joining you, but keeping my hopes up that it will be a simple fix. However, since I'm already leaking enough to reach the garage floor I suspect otherwise.

It is excellent that Fiat cares enough to actually replace the entire transmission, and that it only took 3 weeks for the replacement to arrive. I did go through the cleanup routine already (for the same reason). Here's wishing you a clean swap with no surprises.

pastor passum
09-13-2012, 07:50 AM
Thanks, hopefully I'll hear from them by tomorrow.

Pinecone
09-13-2012, 09:37 AM
The thread may be on the other 500 forum.

Tranny leak does not sound good, but good that Fiat is taking is seriously.

DCSconnect
09-20-2012, 08:44 PM
Took the car to the dealer Saturday 9/15/12. I have to admit I really like the attitude of the Service department (Service Specialist) and how concerned he seemed to be about my issues......yes, I also had the double sided tape release on the body side molding problem, as well as the paint flaking around the badge on the front bumper. The Service Specialist gave me a loaner to use so I could get back home (100+ miles). I also have intermittent leak of the rear window washer fluid but didn't even mention that as it has been over a month since that leak happened.

Anyway, long story short I heard from the dealer today that Chrysler informed the dealer their assessment is that the leak is caused by "build Lube" used in the manufacturing process heating up and coming off. While I hope beyond my wildest dreams this is 100% accurate, I have to admit I'm a little skeptical. Has anyone ever heard of "build lube" causing a leak strong enough to puddle on a garage floor? For that matter, has anyone even heard of "Build Lube" before? The Service Specialist did inform me they've added dye to the fluids so I suspect eventually we'll get to the bottom of this, and again nothing would make me happier than for this analysis to be correct.

As for the body side molding that was also fixed but the Dealer told me the front fascia paint issue was not fixed because they are having problems getting paid under warranty for work done on other cars. They took pics of the "bubbling" paint and I'll talk to them more about this when I pick the car up on Saturday, but there is no room for debate that this is a manufacturing defect. This car has only 800 miles on it, over 200+ just driving to / from dealer and has been in a garage since day one. I've never even driven it at night yet aka no chance this is "bug juice" crud. I expect Fiat / Chrysler better get a grip on this defect via a common policy because this looks like it is going to be very common judging by other posts.

I'll update as soon as we confirm "build lube" as the culprit..............odd though that no one else seems to have build lube issues.

I really really miss my Abarth though - can't imagine what would even come close to replacing it (and definitely not FRS / BRZ because I drove those first before buying the Abarth, and I wouldn't trade even for either).

bryanintowson
09-21-2012, 08:27 AM
It doesn't sound far fetched, DCS. I'm glad to hear that you have a good service department. So far it seems to be a little hit and miss. Thankfully my FIAT Studio here in Baltimore is a lot like yours, very attentive.

If, during assembly, foreign substances got onto the gasket material, it could cause it to fail due to a potential chemical reaction since those seals are designed to resist heat and whatever fluid/gas they're designed to hold in and therefore aren't resistant to much else.

Good luck and you'll be glad to have your little amicci back soon!

ftower
09-21-2012, 09:56 AM
As for the body side molding that was also fixed but the Dealer told me the front fascia paint issue was not fixed because they are having problems getting paid under warranty for work done on other cars. They took pics of the "bubbling" paint and I'll talk to them more about this when I pick the car up on Saturday, but there is no room for debate that this is a manufacturing defect. This car has only 800 miles on it, over 200+ just driving to / from dealer and has been in a garage since day one. I've never even driven it at night yet aka no chance this is "bug juice" crud. I expect Fiat / Chrysler better get a grip on this defect via a common policy because this looks like it is going to be very common judging by other posts.

Definitely stay on them about the paint - there's no question it's a manufacturing defect! I had a similar issue with paint flaking off of the bumper just above the Abarth emblem as well as paint flaking off of the tops of the side molding. The body shop commented the problem was poor paint prep when manufactured (didn't clean all of the release agent off of the bumper when it came out of the mold).

It took the studio about a month and a half to get things squared with Fiat, and they did make it right in the end. It helped having me go to the studio's body shop, have them put together a full quote as if I was going to pay myself for the repairs and then present the quote to the studio's general manager.

An additional note when you do get yours repainted. While my side moldings were completely repainted, they did not need to completely repaint the bumper. They fixed the defective area, blended it in to the existing paint and then cleared over. You can't tell there was ever a problem.

Good luck and PM me if want any additional details on my repair.

Abarth67
09-21-2012, 01:36 PM
My Abarth also has a leak there. I am going to have it checked when I take it in for the first service. Oh well.

hownowcb
09-21-2012, 02:10 PM
Are these "leaks" occurring in 2012, 2013, or both year Abarths?

FiatCares
09-21-2012, 02:53 PM
Took the car to the dealer Saturday 9/15/12. I have to admit I really like the attitude of the Service department (Service Specialist) and how concerned he seemed to be about my issues......yes, I also had the double sided tape release on the body side molding problem, as well as the paint flaking around the badge on the front bumper. The Service Specialist gave me a loaner to use so I could get back home (100+ miles). I also have intermittent leak of the rear window washer fluid but didn't even mention that as it has been over a month since that leak happened.

Anyway, long story short I heard from the dealer today that Chrysler informed the dealer their assessment is that the leak is caused by "build Lube" used in the manufacturing process heating up and coming off. While I hope beyond my wildest dreams this is 100% accurate, I have to admit I'm a little skeptical. Has anyone ever heard of "build lube" causing a leak strong enough to puddle on a garage floor? For that matter, has anyone even heard of "Build Lube" before? The Service Specialist did inform me they've added dye to the fluids so I suspect eventually we'll get to the bottom of this, and again nothing would make me happier than for this analysis to be correct.

As for the body side molding that was also fixed but the Dealer told me the front fascia paint issue was not fixed because they are having problems getting paid under warranty for work done on other cars. They took pics of the "bubbling" paint and I'll talk to them more about this when I pick the car up on Saturday, but there is no room for debate that this is a manufacturing defect. This car has only 800 miles on it, over 200+ just driving to / from dealer and has been in a garage since day one. I've never even driven it at night yet aka no chance this is "bug juice" crud. I expect Fiat / Chrysler better get a grip on this defect via a common policy because this looks like it is going to be very common judging by other posts.

I'll update as soon as we confirm "build lube" as the culprit..............odd though that no one else seems to have build lube issues.

I really really miss my Abarth though - can't imagine what would even come close to replacing it (and definitely not FRS / BRZ because I drove those first before buying the Abarth, and I wouldn't trade even for either).

With so little mileage on the vehicle (with 1/4 of them coming from going back and forth to the studio for the issues) I would hope that our Digital Imaging dept rules in your favor and repaints it under warranty. But the waiting game is unfortunately part of the process to determine the fault of a cosmetic concern. The studio takes digital photos of the area and it is reviewed. Let me know what they say and if I can be of anymore assistance. Have a great weekend and thank you for keeping me up to date on this.

pastor passum
09-21-2012, 11:24 PM
Are these "leaks" occurring in 2012, 2013, or both year Abarths?

Mine is a 2012 with just over 4,000 miles although the leak has probably been there since day one. I never saw it. The studio discovered it doing an oil change. I was notified today the new transmission has been installed. I' topick it up Monday. Yea!

DCSconnect
09-23-2012, 05:27 PM
Amicci is back and not a minute too soon.......really miss driving this car.

Mine is a 2012 built April 11 and purchased June 15. I didn't even think the 2013's were available yet?

As for the leak, the dealer is saying "assembly lube" (sorry I used the wrong term earlier) but they were supposed to have put dye in both the oil and transmission. I was told it was blue and could be seen, but the leak is back and looks orange. It is also a close match to what I saw on the dipstick today. Maybe this is just a miscommunication between the Tech and Service specialist? I'll keep a watch on it and think if it is assembly lube it should stop soon - certainly by the time I take it in for the first oil change (which looks like that will be Dec 15th or so).

The dealer fixed the loose body side molding and took pictures of the paint above the badge on the front bumper. I'm really debating if this is worth having the entire bumper pulled, sanded and re-painted (fearing the end result could be worse than the current bubbles). I'd almost be willing to do touch up, but my concern is 2 years down the road the entire bumper starts to shed paint - that would be a major bummer! If FIAT would honor correction at that point I'd be willing to wait and see, but by then it might be too late and possibly impossible unless they use this initial digital pic as justification?

Anyway, thanks Jonathan for tying into this thread - knowing you are there is huge plus.

And I hope went well for you Pastor as well - please let us know.

Fiat500USA
09-23-2012, 08:54 PM
With so little mileage on the vehicle (with 1/4 of them coming from going back and forth to the studio for the issues) I would hope that our Digital Imaging dept rules in your favor and repaints it under warranty. But the waiting game is unfortunately part of the process to determine the fault of a cosmetic concern. The studio takes digital photos of the area and it is reviewed. Let me know what they say and if I can be of anymore assistance. Have a great weekend and thank you for keeping me up to date on this.

This still image is taken from the Motorweek Road Test video. Look at the chip above the emblem! Please pass this on to QC.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-kGUlucTo64Y/UF-sgHFeUCI/AAAAAAAANo4/MCLQWCG0XBc/s800/Fiat%2520500%2520Abarth%2520emblem.jpg

FiatCares
09-24-2012, 11:05 AM
This still image is taken from the Motorweek Road Test video. Look at the chip above the emblem! Please pass this on to QC.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-kGUlucTo64Y/UF-sgHFeUCI/AAAAAAAANo4/MCLQWCG0XBc/s800/Fiat%2520500%2520Abarth%2520emblem.jpg

Im sorry , I dont see any chip or defect above the emblem.

FiatCares
09-24-2012, 11:08 AM
Amicci is back and not a minute too soon.......really miss driving this car.

Mine is a 2012 built April 11 and purchased June 15. I didn't even think the 2013's were available yet?

As for the leak, the dealer is saying "assembly lube" (sorry I used the wrong term earlier) but they were supposed to have put dye in both the oil and transmission. I was told it was blue and could be seen, but the leak is back and looks orange. It is also a close match to what I saw on the dipstick today. Maybe this is just a miscommunication between the Tech and Service specialist? I'll keep a watch on it and think if it is assembly lube it should stop soon - certainly by the time I take it in for the first oil change (which looks like that will be Dec 15th or so).

The dealer fixed the loose body side molding and took pictures of the paint above the badge on the front bumper. I'm really debating if this is worth having the entire bumper pulled, sanded and re-painted (fearing the end result could be worse than the current bubbles). I'd almost be willing to do touch up, but my concern is 2 years down the road the entire bumper starts to shed paint - that would be a major bummer! If FIAT would honor correction at that point I'd be willing to wait and see, but by then it might be too late and possibly impossible unless they use this initial digital pic as justification?

Anyway, thanks Jonathan for tying into this thread - knowing you are there is huge plus.

And I hope went well for you Pastor as well - please let us know.

You are quite welcome.. glad that I could help. :)

SeaDawg
09-24-2012, 11:28 AM
Im sorry , I dont see any chip or defect above the emblem.

It's right in the top center at the seam of the emblem and the white paint come together. It's the two little black specks you see in the photo.

Guest
09-24-2012, 11:29 AM
Im sorry , I dont see any chip or defect above the emblem.

Is it not the two black marks along the top edge of the chrome???

FiatCares
09-24-2012, 11:33 AM
It's right in the top center at the seam of the emblem and the white paint come together. It's the two little black specks you see in the photo.

Oh I see it now.. it appears very small. Not sure the studio would determine that as a defect.. but they are welcome to send it to Digital Imagining.

Fiat500USA
09-25-2012, 01:39 AM
Im sorry , I dont see any chip or defect above the emblem.

This is the area that everyone is talking about on their car. There are 2 little chips or spots where the paint isn't adhering correctly.

You guys need to send me down there for a week and I'll go through each car. This is killing me... :sorrow:

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-v1imGpXRA3I/UGFCcCK-tJI/AAAAAAAANps/pTy0SRTSRs4/s800/Fiat%2520500%2520Abarth%2520emblem%2520chip.jpg

Fiat500USA
09-25-2012, 01:53 AM
The image I posted is from the video below. I posted it to show it is not an isolated instance. I was watching Motorweek on my TV and saw the marks above the emblem.


http://youtu.be/Qp-OuIZopO4

DCSconnect
10-07-2012, 05:41 PM
Just wanted to post a quick note to say that I'm fairly confident this is not assembly lube. I bought a black light at wally world and removed the under body plate and sure enough, the leak glowed as you'd expect to see with dye added. Still not sure if it is transmission or engine oil since the dealer told me they added dye to both, but it looks like it is coming from the transmission side of the black separator plate. Sort of bummed at the thought of having to get some major repair work.......and the size of the leak is growing faster than I expected so I doubt I'll be waiting until the first oil change. I plan to call the dealer tomorrow.

Pastor - how did your transmission swap turn out?

pastor passum
10-07-2012, 08:01 PM
Sorry to hear about your leak. Hopefully it's the tranny rather than an engine seal. I've put over 2,700 miles on mine in 10 days since having it replaced (trip to Maine) and no problems. I just hated having the car in the shop for so long but the dealer did provide a loaner. Hopefully no more issues.

fltrplntman
10-08-2012, 12:25 AM
Just wanted to post a quick note to say that I'm fairly confident this is not assembly lube. I bought a black light at wally world and removed the under body plate and sure enough, the leak glowed as you'd expect to see with dye added. Still not sure if it is transmission or engine oil since the dealer told me they added dye to both, but it looks like it is coming from the transmission side of the black separator plate. Sort of bummed at the thought of having to get some major repair work.......and the size of the leak is growing faster than I expected so I doubt I'll be waiting until the first oil change. I plan to call the dealer tomorrow

Pastor - how did your transmission swap turn out?

Theoretically the should have only put the dye in one or the other. If they put it in both.. it should have been different colors.
with the black light... check your engine dipstick. Hopefully, it doesn't glow.

DCSconnect
10-08-2012, 07:06 AM
Thanks for the update Pastor - that's great news and glad to hear all went well for you on the fix.

Fltrplntman - yeah, I sort of agree it seems only one or the other would have the dye but if you're thinking it is really assembly lube and want to prove that out then putting it in both makes sense (I guess). At least I hope they did - because I checked the dipstick and it did glow. The main reason I believe them though is that I checked closely around the transmission fill plug and there was a little "blob" stuck to the housing just above the plug that I wiped off with a Q-tip. It almost had the consistency of Vaseline - not sure if the dye is really more like a gel than a liquid?

Whatever it is I hope I'm as fortunate as Pastor to get it fixed right the first time cause I've definitely been "stung". This is one great little car and I don't want do without it - I can't even imagine what's out there to even come close?

mgirod
10-08-2012, 07:50 AM
I had a rear main seal leak a few weeks ago. From the description it sounds like the OP has the same thing. The entire front of the car had to be removed in order to take out the engine and transmission. It was a first for my dealership (Crown of Chattanooga). Car was in the shop for two weeks. Process was further delayed by frozen bolts in the engine mounts that had to be drilled out and replacement bolts ordered from Fiat. Apparently, the bolts were "special". When I finally got the car back, it was literally in showroom condition. Not a scratch. Looking under the hood you can't tell anything had been touched. Been running fantastic ever since. All fluids and the AC refrigerant had to be replaced and I would swear the AC cooled better afterward. They've since told me during a follow-up visit that they had another one come in with the same thing--rear seal leaking. Out of curiosity the service manager looked at the build dates on the cars and sure enough they were assembled during the same week, around first of January, 2012.

Cheers

EliRider
10-08-2012, 07:59 AM
It is my understanding that the first build cars were early March 2012.

Mine was 3/12/2012.

Will have to check next time when the car is in service.

Prima 109
10-08-2012, 12:18 PM
Im sorry , I dont see any chip or defect above the emblem.



Look closely, there are two chips Jonathan.

DCSconnect
10-09-2012, 07:39 AM
Thanks for the info MG - while the prospect of a major repair is a little scary, reading stories like yours, Pastor's as well as others who have had significant re-build does give me hope that if I wind up in the same boat, the jobs are being done right the first time.

I just know in the past - and across multiple makes and models - all too often I'd take the car in to have something done and get it back with "new" issues. I hope my studio is up to snuff like y'alls, cause my gut tells me this is not minor.

scorpion_king
10-12-2012, 09:51 PM
I stop by the studio today and had them put the on the lift to see if my car had a leak and sure enough it did. the tech looked at it and he saw that the bolts were loose. so he torqued them done cleaned up the oil. he said i should come back in a week to see if its still leaking

ChicagoAbarth
10-18-2012, 05:15 PM
Chiming in with my experiences so far. Took the car in for an oil change on 9/22. We were headed on a long road trip and I didn't want to need an oil change while we were on the road. Dealer said there was a small leak from the rear main seal and we should get it replaced when we could. Told them about the trip and they said it wouldn't be a problem to do it when we got back. Got back and went to the dealer we bought it from (further, but with a nicer service department) on 10/11 and they looked at it and agreed it was the rear main seal and to bring it back on 10/15 so it could be replaced.

Drop the car off on 10/15 and got an automatic pop in return :( Seriously one of the worst transmissions I've ever experienced. Was told it would be a full day job but they couldn't get to until 10/16 so I would get it back on 10/17.

They call me on 10/17 in the afternoon. The rear main seal they ordered doesn't look like the one thats in the car. They have to order another one, it will be there on 10/18.

Called me back about 20 mins ago. They were looking at it and now they think its a porous transmission case. Said they saw it on a Chrysler minivan once and we had similar problems. Pictures are being taken and sent to Fiat. They're going to put it back together and give it back until they hear if I'll get a new transmission.

Not sure when mine was built, but I got it in mid April. Sounds like this might be a problem for the early cars? I'll keep you guys updated.

Abarth67
10-18-2012, 07:56 PM
Same problem here and an April build.

shonokin
10-18-2012, 07:59 PM
I posted this elsewhere last week but seems relevant to this conversation:
...when getting the oil changed I wound up having the whole engine pulled and having an oil sealant plate replaced (Main Rear Seal). It was leaking oil big time. Apparently a certain production run on that plate did not have a high enough groove stamped into the metal and so the sealant could not keep it properly sealed. I asked why it wasn't a recall and they said it wasn't a major number of cars or a big enough issue to make it a recall. That when cars come in for service, if it's leaking from that plate that they will replace it. All under warranty, so no problems and my loner was a Mustang convertible. Awesome muscle car (compared to a 500 Pop) which I'd always wanted to try one out, but very honestly, I like everything better about my Fiat!

scorpion_king
10-18-2012, 08:02 PM
I stop by the studio today and had them put the on the lift to see if my car had a leak and sure enough it did. the tech looked at it and he saw that the bolts were loose. so he torqued them done cleaned up the oil. he said i should come back in a week to see if its still leaking

just came back from the studio. got my car on the lift and good news no leak. i guess the bolts just needed to be tightened

cmj912
10-19-2012, 08:43 AM
I'm a little at a loss here as to what to do next. My car has been in three or four times to address what smells like burning oil coming from underneath the car. They insist that the car is not leaking anything. However, even though I have been told that the car *will* and *does* use oil it seems excessive that it went from full to half in 4,000 miles.

The smell is pretty awful. Not sure what choice I have this winter other than to perhaps only drive in recirc mode when I can't open the windows.

What's worse, the Chrysler "owner page" says that my cabin filter, wipers, etc should have been changed at the last service. No mention was made of this. Still no call from the dealer on the @#$%^& dash lights. In fact I'm now thinking it may not even been the dash bulbs blowing because they are suddenly working again these past few days. That, to me, signals a loose connection perhaps rather than a bulb problem.

EDIT:

Perhaps not as unique a problem as we might think. And yet all this mention of "the dealer has logged this problem with the company and they tell us it is a known issue"...

http://www.fiat500owners.com/forum/50-mechanical-issues-owner-questions/2898-oil-smell-inside-cabin.html

The problem with these internet forums is that you can print it out and give it to them and they give you a look like you're slapping them in the face. As you all know, I am not a troll...or at least I hope you don't think I am. I just want my car to not smell like it has a problem and be in fine operating condition given the fact that I am still paying for it and it only has 14,000 miles.

bryanintowson
10-19-2012, 09:14 AM
You're not a troll, cmj - it's really frustrating when dealing with a studio for something they can't see/ smell/ hear. You know it's there. And it *is* there and we're hyper-attenuated to our cars so it's plain as day for us.

Glad to hear that there's at least some progress for you.

cmj912
10-19-2012, 09:32 AM
You're not a troll, cmj - it's really frustrating when dealing with a studio for something they can't see/ smell/ hear. You know it's there. And it *is* there and we're hyper-attenuated to our cars so it's plain as day for us.

Glad to hear that there's at least some progress for you.

Well. I have a lot of evidence of what the problem could be but so far no one has been able to stop the problem.

I feel that the issue of the smell plus the fact that my car had read full oil and then was reading half full after 4,000 miles (and yes I checked the oil a number of times after running the car for 20-30 minutes and then letting it sit for 5) should point them toward something. They keep saying nope, nothing. But ride in my car for 10 minutes and then ask me to turn on the heat. 99% of people say "what is that smell?". I thought it was the coolant bottle (mine exploded recently and had to be replaced) but it is still happening.

The issue just makes me feel very nervous especially what with everything I have read from owners who are having oil-related concerns or problems. I can't have this just go on and on while they car trickles toward the warranty running out and I cannot afford a new car.

Oh, wait a minute. This one IS new.

VTEC Mini
10-19-2012, 10:38 AM
The problem with these internet forums is that you can print it out and give it to them and they give you a look like you're slapping them in the face. As you all know, I am not a troll...or at least I hope you don't think I am. I just want my car to not smell like it has a problem and be in fine operating condition given the fact that I am still paying for it and it only has 14,000 miles.Your not a troll. You paid good money for a car and it should be taken care of.

I had to do this kind of thing with MINI. You want to talk about piss poor service. They bring it to a new whole level. What was a real slap in the face to them is when I had to trouble shoot and find the problem for them in the rear suspension (after I had to bring it back three times in one month at 150 miles a pop) when I had an issue(s) with the rear end making noise.......... I can tell you that was an ugly, ugly day.

SeaDawg
10-19-2012, 10:49 AM
Well. I have a lot of evidence of what the problem could be but so far no one has been able to stop the problem.
Oh, wait a minute. This one IS new.

Someone has said the exhaust manifold studs on some cars seep oil which, due to the heat of the exhaust manifold, then smokes or 'burns' producing an unpleasant odor.

VTEC Mini
10-19-2012, 11:10 AM
Someone has said the exhaust manifold studs on some cars seep oil which, due to the heat of the exhaust manifold, then smokes or 'burns' producing an unpleasant odor.

This should have way burned off by now.

Fiat500USA
10-19-2012, 11:47 AM
A half a quart of oil within 4,000 miles is normal. Below are excerpts from the guidelines on oil consumption:


DISCUSSION:
Engines require oil to lubricate and protect the load bearing and internal moving parts from
wear including cylinder walls, pistons and piston rings. When a piston moves down its
cylinder, a thin film of oil is left on the cylinder wall. During the power stroke, part of this oil
layer is consumed in the combustion process. Varying rates of oil consumption are
accepted as normal in all engines.

Oil Consumption
The accepted rate of oil consumption for engines used in the vehicles listed above is 0.946
liter (1 qt.) in 3,200 km (2,000 mi) for the 1st 80,467 km (50,000 mi). For vehicles with
more then 80,467 km (50,000 mi) the acceptable oil consumption for engines is 0.946 liter
(1 qt.) in 1,207 km (750 mi).

CAUTION: This above rate only applies to personal use vehicles, under warranty,
that are driven in a non-aggressive manner and maintained in
accordance with the appropriate maintenance schedule,

CAUTION:
This rate does not apply to vehicles that are driven in an aggressive
manner, at high RPM, high speeds, or in a loaded condition (for trucks).
See ‘Causes for Oil Consumption’ below. Oil consumption for vehicles
driven under these conditions will be higher and may include Fleet and
Commercial customers.

There are many factors that can affect a Owner's concern with oil consumption. Driving
habits and vehicle maintenance vary from owner to owner. Inspect each condition listed
below prior to determining if the vehicle in question has abnormal engine oil consumption.
If abnormal oil consumption is suspected, refer to the detailed diagnostic procedures
available in DealerCONNECT

CAUTION:
Operating the vehicle with an oil level that is below the minimum level
indicated on the engine oil dipstick can result in severe engine damage.
Repairs resulting from operating an engine with insufficient oil are not
covered under the terms of the New Vehicle Warranty.


Oil Dilution (Fuel and Water)
On vehicles that are normally driven short distances, less than 8 km (5 mi), especially in
colder weather, unburned fuel and condensation generated from cold engine operation
may not get hot enough to evaporate out of the oil. When this occurs, the dipstick may
indicate that the oil level is over-full. Subsequent driving on a trip of sufficient length to
enable normal engine operating temperature for 30 minutes or more, in order to vaporize
excess moisture and fuel, may give the customer the impression of excessive oil
consumption.

Causes for Oil Consumption:

Aggressive Driving
Aggressive driving and/or continuous driving at high speeds with high RPM's will increase
oil consumption. Because this may not always be an everyday occurrence, it is hard to
determine exactly how much the oil economy will be affected. A higher rate of oil
consumption is normal for vehicles equipped with manual transmissions that are driven
aggressively. Aggressive means; operation at high RPM (3,000 RPM to redline), with
frequent use of engine braking (using the engine to slow the vehicle). Vehicles that are
driven aggressively may consume engine oil at a rate of up to 0.946 L (1 quart) every 805
km (500 mi). This is normal for a vehicle that is driven aggressively. No repair is
necessary. This driving habit will require the owner to check the engine oil level at frequent
intervals, to verified the oil level remains within the recommended operating range. Oil
level should be checked every time you get fuel.

Towing or Heavy Usage
Towing a trailer will increase oil consumption and may cause oil consumption to fall below
the normal accepted rate referenced in this bulletin for an unloaded vehicle in a personal
use application. Large frontal area trailers will further increase the work required from the
engine, especially at highway speeds increasing the rate of oil consumption.

Engine Wear
Piston scuffing, excessive piston-to-wall clearance, tapered or out of round cylinders, worn,
damaged or improperly installed valve guides, seals and piston rings will cause an
increase in oil consumption.

Engine Temperature
If an engine is run at overheated temperatures for more than brief periods, oil will oxidize
at a faster than normal rate. In addition, gaskets may distort, piston rings may stick, and
excessive wear may result. Verify that all cooling system components are in proper
working order.

POLICY:
Information Only

SeaDawg
10-19-2012, 12:33 PM
This should have way burned off by now.

The post I was reading said something to the effect that in days past FIAT engine heads sometimes got the oil passages inadvertently 'invaded' when drilling and tapping the exhaust system manifold bolt holes. To me, this would imply that, as the other poster stated, that oil would 'wick or seep' along the threads and then due to the temperature of the exhaust manifold itself 'burn off'. This would be a continuous occurance until the studs were removed, loctited and reinstalled. Again, I am not a trained auto mechanic, but it sounded plausible to me so I suggested it as a 'possibility'. YMMV

Fiat500USA
10-19-2012, 12:51 PM
The post I was reading said something to the effect that in days past FIAT engine heads sometimes got the oil passages inadvertently 'invaded' when drilling and tapping the exhaust system manifold bolt holes...

I don't recall hearing that one before. In my experience working at a Fiat garage way back when, the engines were machined very well. Maybe that was on a 500 or 600? I worked mainly on SOHC and Twin Cam engines with the boss handling the older 500 and 600, etc. cars.

cmj912
10-19-2012, 01:12 PM
This is all just FYI since I have seen a lot of posts where someone has a problem and then you never hear of its fruition. As others have said: "YMMV".

I'm just telling you what they told me. The service writer gave me a paper with those oil consumption bullet points. I thought full to half would be more than a quart, so it seemed a bit excessive to me since I've never owned a new car before that appeared to use any oil. In fact, I probably wouldn't have even given it another thought - and chalked it up to the whole MultiAir thing - but the fact that it smells like you're riding behind a diesel bus when you drive my car just had me thinking that it could be related.

I don't think I'm an aggressive driver. Most of my driving is city with the car in normal mode under 25mph. Though that may be tough(er) on an engine, given the fact that it was originally designed as a city car toodling around at 25MPH for a half-hour drive every morning and evening should be happy trails for the FIAT 500. And it is an automatic, so it is shifting when it thinks it should, not when I do, so RPM above 3000 are are infrequent.

Seadawg - I gave my studio a list of things to check when I handed over the car : I listed as a possibility "Exhaust Manifold Stud Leak" or "Rear Main Seal Leak" or "Valve Cover Gasket Leak". They state that neither is the case and said that they removed the underpanel of the car and "looked everywhere" for signs that something was leaking.

FiatCares
10-19-2012, 01:38 PM
A half a quart of oil within 4,000 miles is normal. Below are excerpts from the guidelines on oil consumption:


DISCUSSION:
Engines require oil to lubricate and protect the load bearing and internal moving parts from
wear including cylinder walls, pistons and piston rings. When a piston moves down its
cylinder, a thin film of oil is left on the cylinder wall. During the power stroke, part of this oil
layer is consumed in the combustion process. Varying rates of oil consumption are
accepted as normal in all engines.

Oil Consumption
The accepted rate of oil consumption for engines used in the vehicles listed above is 0.946
liter (1 qt.) in 3,200 km (2,000 mi) for the 1st 80,467 km (50,000 mi). For vehicles with
more then 80,467 km (50,000 mi) the acceptable oil consumption for engines is 0.946 liter
(1 qt.) in 1,207 km (750 mi).

CAUTION: This above rate only applies to personal use vehicles, under warranty,
that are driven in a non-aggressive manner and maintained in
accordance with the appropriate maintenance schedule,

CAUTION:
This rate does not apply to vehicles that are driven in an aggressive
manner, at high RPM, high speeds, or in a loaded condition (for trucks).
See ‘Causes for Oil Consumption’ below. Oil consumption for vehicles
driven under these conditions will be higher and may include Fleet and
Commercial customers.

There are many factors that can affect a Owner's concern with oil consumption. Driving
habits and vehicle maintenance vary from owner to owner. Inspect each condition listed
below prior to determining if the vehicle in question has abnormal engine oil consumption.
If abnormal oil consumption is suspected, refer to the detailed diagnostic procedures
available in DealerCONNECT

CAUTION:
Operating the vehicle with an oil level that is below the minimum level
indicated on the engine oil dipstick can result in severe engine damage.
Repairs resulting from operating an engine with insufficient oil are not
covered under the terms of the New Vehicle Warranty.


Oil Dilution (Fuel and Water)
On vehicles that are normally driven short distances, less than 8 km (5 mi), especially in
colder weather, unburned fuel and condensation generated from cold engine operation
may not get hot enough to evaporate out of the oil. When this occurs, the dipstick may
indicate that the oil level is over-full. Subsequent driving on a trip of sufficient length to
enable normal engine operating temperature for 30 minutes or more, in order to vaporize
excess moisture and fuel, may give the customer the impression of excessive oil
consumption.

Causes for Oil Consumption:

Aggressive Driving
Aggressive driving and/or continuous driving at high speeds with high RPM's will increase
oil consumption. Because this may not always be an everyday occurrence, it is hard to
determine exactly how much the oil economy will be affected. A higher rate of oil
consumption is normal for vehicles equipped with manual transmissions that are driven
aggressively. Aggressive means; operation at high RPM (3,000 RPM to redline), with
frequent use of engine braking (using the engine to slow the vehicle). Vehicles that are
driven aggressively may consume engine oil at a rate of up to 0.946 L (1 quart) every 805
km (500 mi). This is normal for a vehicle that is driven aggressively. No repair is
necessary. This driving habit will require the owner to check the engine oil level at frequent
intervals, to verified the oil level remains within the recommended operating range. Oil
level should be checked every time you get fuel.

Towing or Heavy Usage
Towing a trailer will increase oil consumption and may cause oil consumption to fall below
the normal accepted rate referenced in this bulletin for an unloaded vehicle in a personal
use application. Large frontal area trailers will further increase the work required from the
engine, especially at highway speeds increasing the rate of oil consumption.

Engine Wear
Piston scuffing, excessive piston-to-wall clearance, tapered or out of round cylinders, worn,
damaged or improperly installed valve guides, seals and piston rings will cause an
increase in oil consumption.

Engine Temperature
If an engine is run at overheated temperatures for more than brief periods, oil will oxidize
at a faster than normal rate. In addition, gaskets may distort, piston rings may stick, and
excessive wear may result. Verify that all cooling system components are in proper
working order.

POLICY:
Information Only


This is what I have always been advised... in a nut shell:

According to industry standards and Engineering, oil consumption may increase with age and mileage due to normal engine wear. Usage may be higher than standards during engine break-in, where repairs should be delayed until beyond 7500 miles; whereas severe service (heavy loading, towing, short trips, taxi, off road or law enforcement) may result in greater oil usage than standards indicate.

Guidelines:

1990 to current models:
- Vehicles with less than 50,000 miles - one quart per 1,000 miles.
- Vehicles with mileage from 50,000 to 70,000 miles - one quart per 750 miles.
- Vehicles with over 70,000 miles – one quart per 500 miles.

cmj912
10-19-2012, 01:51 PM
This is what I have always been advised... in a nut shell:

According to industry standards and Engineering, oil consumption may increase with age and mileage due to normal engine wear. Usage may be higher than standards during engine break-in, where repairs should be delayed until beyond 7500 miles; whereas severe service (heavy loading, towing, short trips, taxi, off road or law enforcement) may result in greater oil usage than standards indicate.

Guidelines:

1990 to current models:
- Vehicles with less than 50,000 miles - one quart per 1,000 miles.
- Vehicles with mileage from 50,000 to 70,000 miles - one quart per 750 miles.
- Vehicles with over 70,000 miles – one quart per 500 miles.

Fantastic. Lesson learned. I won't mention it again.

But...while this oil is being consumed by the car, should it smell like it is burning when you turn the heat on?

FiatCares
10-19-2012, 01:58 PM
Fantastic. Lesson learned. I won't mention it again.

But...while this oil is being consumed by the car, should it smell like it is burning when you turn the heat on?

If you are smell burning oil.. I would say that is NOT normal. Must be leaking and burning off of a manifold or part of the undercarriage.

ukeluthier
10-19-2012, 04:48 PM
Guidelines:

1990 to current models:
- Vehicles with less than 50,000 miles - one quart per 1,000 miles.
- Vehicles with mileage from 50,000 to 70,000 miles - one quart per 750 miles.
- Vehicles with over 70,000 miles – one quart per 500 miles.

Hmm...

If I owned a car that used oil at those rates, I wouldn't own it for long.

Those kinds of rates are typical for 2-stroke engine consumption!

Quite honestly, I don't know how you could pass an emissions test burning a quart of oil every 500-1000 miles.

Fiat500USA
10-19-2012, 05:32 PM
I only posted this info because many people don't realize what an acceptable level of oil consumption is. I have been in the automotive field for a long time and these guidlines fall into what is pretty much an industry standard. Actually they are better than some. Check VW/ Audi.

SeaDawg
10-19-2012, 07:40 PM
Hmm...

If I owned a car that used oil at those rates, I wouldn't own it for long.

Those kinds of rates are typical for 2-stroke engine consumption!

Quite honestly, I don't know how you could pass an emissions test burning a quart of oil every 500-1000 miles.

I owned a Northstar V8 engined Eldorado that consumed oil at the rate of 1 qt per 1,000 miles. It was NORMAL for that engine. It had less than 50,000 miles on it. I got the explanation from not only the GM dealer here in Orlando, but from one of the automotive journalists or pundits, Click & Clack perhaps. It had to do with piston design.

BUT I'll agree, that was the only car that I have ever owned that consumed that much oil as a part of normal operation. Every NEW car I have ever owned didn't use enough to show a drop on the dipstick between changes.

jguerdat
10-19-2012, 08:12 PM
My S2000 has used a quart per 1000 miles almost since new. Use of oil is hardly a reason to dis a perfectly fine car.

cmj912
10-19-2012, 08:40 PM
Using oil I'm sure is fine. Leaking it is not. I'd just like to have some peace of mind.

Pinecone
10-20-2012, 12:43 AM
BMW specs are 1 quart per 1200 miles is considered "normal." It is possible to have an engine that burns a good bit of oil.

BUT, you not smell hot/burning oil. If it is repeatable, take the service manager for a ride and demonstate it to them.

hownowcb
10-20-2012, 07:09 PM
I have a suspicion about the source of your hot oil smell, cmj912. It's very possible some sort of oil has gotten on the heat exchanger in your air circulation system. It wouldn't come from your crankcase oil, but more likely oil used by someone reassembling two parts of your heater/AC system? The heat exchanger will heat the oil enough to smell "cooked", but not high enough to actually burn it. That is, I assume you're not seeing smoke or soot coming out the vents, or finding a slimy film on the inside of your windows.

The only place air that comes out of your heater/AC comes from is the cowl intake at the base of your windshield. I can't comprehend how, but unless someone has had parts of your heater/AC apart, the cowl intake remains the only source of an oil smell being introduced to your interior. If oil were leaking from your engine and creating the smell from external contact with your hot engine, odds are it would only find its way into the cowl intake if your car were standing still.

Why do I suspect this scenario? I won't go into detail, but will say it involved an air-cooled VW, a set of EMPI tuned headers, and a then not-so-bright 20 year-old who knows a lot more about air-cooled cars now than he ever wanted to back then.

cmj912
10-21-2012, 11:10 AM
I have a suspicion about the source of your hot oil smell, cmj912. It's very possible some sort of oil has gotten on the heat exchanger in your air circulation system. It wouldn't come from your crankcase oil, but more likely oil used by someone reassembling two parts of your heater/AC system? The heat exchanger will heat the oil enough to smell "cooked", but not high enough to actually burn it. That is, I assume you're not seeing smoke or soot coming out the vents, or finding a slimy film on the inside of your windows.

The only place air that comes out of your heater/AC comes from is the cowl intake at the base of your windshield. I can't comprehend how, but unless someone has had parts of your heater/AC apart, the cowl intake remains the only source of an oil smell being introduced to your interior. If oil were leaking from your engine and creating the smell from external contact with your hot engine, odds are it would only find its way into the cowl intake if your car were standing still.

Why do I suspect this scenario? I won't go into detail, but will say it involved an air-cooled VW, a set of EMPI tuned headers, and a then not-so-bright 20 year-old who knows a lot more about air-cooled cars now than he ever wanted to back then.

My car does only smell like oil when it is standing still and when the engine is warm/hot. I do not see smoke or film inside the car.

If you run the engine warm, get out on the highway and then come to a stop at, say, the end of an exit ramp you get a pronounced burning smell.

As I've said before, the techs say they have no idea why this is happening and have told me everything from "the engine is little and does get very hot" to "we have looked everywhere we can look and we do not see any signs that the car is losing oil" to "it doesn't do this for us".

I'm not sure how it is not doing it for them, all you have to do is drive the car and then turn on the fan at a stop to smell it.

I got as far as I could under the car this morning and looked all around the engine myself. I don't know where the back of the crankcase, the rear of the valve cover or the exhaust manifold studs are so without the car up on a lift and some tools to remove the underpanel I can't investigate further.

Frankly, with the car only having 14,000 miles and being 16 months old it is patently ridiculous that this can't be resolved. It has been investigated about 5 times.

However, I do not discount the idea of the heater having been messed with since my climate control panel is on crooked and my heater hoses, etc, needed to all be reconnected after the coolant bottle exploded at 12,000 miles.
The panel lights inside of the climate panel only work occasionally and the panel, as I said, is on crooked so maybe it might have been apart at some point. Apparently, special order parts are needed to diagnose this mystery that have taken more than two weeks to arrive, so even though I thought it was burnt out bulbs maybe that isn't the culprit.

Such a shame. I really like my little car. I wish I could drive it with the windows closed.

I'm going to have to wait until pay week to make an appointment to get a second opinion at another Studio up in Massachusetts.

hanzo
10-22-2012, 12:43 PM
Has anyone got their oil leak resolved permanently?

cmj912
10-24-2012, 08:55 AM
Last night while checking on a clattering noise from under the hood I yet again looked for sources of a leak.

While looking at the engine there is the engine cover. At the front left-hand side (standing in front of the car) directly below the engine cover edge there is what looks like a shiny metal shield. It is a 'hot' part.

This shield (I'm not sure what it covers) is dented and sort of smashed in on the corner. As if with a hammer and a set of pliers. It seems impossible to impart this sort of damage with all of the surrounding parts installed. I am not sure what could have made this mark or what is underneath the shield but it was either installed damaged or was damaged while the engine was being worked on.

Again, I'm not sure if it related but it is a 'hot part' meaning anything touching it would evaporate pretty quickly. It is close enough to the topside of the engine to maybe never make it to drip stage.

I will try to take a pic tonight if it isn't raining.

ChicagoAbarth
10-24-2012, 09:19 AM
...I'll keep you guys updated.

Dealership called yesterday, Fiat approved a new transmission. They are backordered so the dealership wasn't able to give me an estimate on time. Someone from the dealership is coming by sometime today to pick up the car today and to drop off a loaner.

hanzo
10-24-2012, 09:28 AM
Dealership called yesterday, Fiat approved a new transmission. They are backordered so the dealership wasn't able to give me an estimate on time. Someone from the dealership is coming by sometime today to pick up the car today and to drop off a loaner.

Are they installing a new design transmission or the same transmission but new?

Fiat500USA
10-24-2012, 02:50 PM
That trans is made in Italy and has been around forever. All the Abarth specials and tuned Abarths in the rest of the world use it. It's unfortunate to hear when a bad one comes along, but Fiat is replacing it.

hanzo
10-24-2012, 02:54 PM
That trans is made in Italy and has been around forever. All the Abarth specials and tuned Abarths in the rest of the world use it. It's unfortunate to hear when a bad one comes along, but Fiat is replacing it.

So this is nothing to do with the leak, the leak is something else?

cmj912
10-24-2012, 04:50 PM
Last night while checking on a clattering noise from under the hood I yet again looked for sources of a leak.

While looking at the engine there is the engine cover. At the front left-hand side (standing in front of the car) directly below the engine cover edge there is what looks like a shiny metal shield. It is a 'hot' part.

This shield (I'm not sure what it covers) is dented and sort of smashed in on the corner. As if with a hammer and a set of pliers. It seems impossible to impart this sort of damage with all of the surrounding parts installed. I am not sure what could have made this mark or what is underneath the shield but it was either installed damaged or was damaged while the engine was being worked on.

Again, I'm not sure if it related but it is a 'hot part' meaning anything touching it would evaporate pretty quickly. It is close enough to the topside of the engine to maybe never make it to drip stage.

I will try to take a pic tonight if it isn't raining.

Here are the pictures...

39303931

SeaDawg
10-24-2012, 04:55 PM
Here are the pictures...

39303931

That's what I thought you were describing...it looks like the exhaust manifold heat shield and YES it will most assuredly get hot. It may have been damaged while changing your oil filter. It certainly shouldn't have been, but you just never know. That in itself shouldn't cause any oil smell unless oil is somehow dripping on it.

ChicagoAbarth
10-24-2012, 05:14 PM
Are they installing a new design transmission or the same transmission but new?

They never said anything about a new design of transmission, so I would assume the same one but new. This started because of what they assumed to be leak in the rear main seal. Now they think the leak is because of a porous transmission case. They had the car for five days the first time and gave it back until they heard if Fiat was going to approve a new transmission. They got the OK yesterday and picked it back up today. With the transmission being backordered they expect that it could take two weeks or more to get a new one in. Not thrilled to be making payments on an Abarth and being stuck driving an automatic pop, but there's not a whole lot I can do about it. I'll update you guys as I learn more.

cmj912
10-24-2012, 08:38 PM
That's what I thought you were describing...it looks like the exhaust manifold heat shield and YES it will most assuredly get hot. It may have been damaged while changing your oil filter. It certainly shouldn't have been, but you just never know. That in itself shouldn't cause any oil smell unless oil is somehow dripping on it.

Someone said something about a manifold stud seep that hits this thing and burns off right away. Are the manifold studs under this thing?

SeaDawg
10-24-2012, 10:25 PM
Someone said something about a manifold stud seep that hits this thing and burns off right away. Are the manifold studs under this thing?

I suspect that was me too. Yes, the exhaust manifold and the studs & nuts that secure it to the head are under that shield which is there to protect other components from the extreme heat of the exhaust manifold.

cmj912
10-25-2012, 09:02 AM
I suspect that was me too. Yes, the exhaust manifold and the studs & nuts that secure it to the head are under that shield which is there to protect other components from the extreme heat of the exhaust manifold.

Excellent! Thanks. I will have them look at this and give the stamp of approval that this area is normal when I make my next appointment.

DCSconnect
10-26-2012, 07:54 AM
Hanzo - I can tell by your questions you're concerned about your order, maybe even re-considering your decision and afraid to purchase the Abarth.

I started this thread out of genuine concern and to learn more about my car. Never in a million years would I have wanted this thread to cause someone to not buy the Abarth. I'm not sure if you have actually driven one, or ordered just based on research? but I am back here to tell you this is one amazing little crotch rocket. The design is dead on, though as you read throughout these threads execution is not perfect. You've probably seen a lot of subjective comments (i.e. I don't like the FOB, or why does my interior door show white marks) along with some more serious concerns which right now seem to be primarily paint / body related and this engine / transmission leak.

I am not a patient person, have owned at least 18 vehicles during my life and driven 100's (a lot of business related rentals). Before buying my Abarth I drove and narrowed the selection down to 3 vehicles - the Abarth, the Scion FRS and a 1968 British green 327/4 speed Vette. You know what I bought.

No, my problem is not yet resolved but it is due as much to my delay in getting it back to the dealer as anything else. What I am seeing / reading is that Fiat is not leaving us stranded, not making some lame excuses and so far seems to genuinely be concerned about getting and making it right. And in the vast majority of cases - including my own - they step forward immediately to offer a loaner when they keep the car, I didn't even have to ask much less beg.

There are others who have joined the thread that have had leaks, had repairs done and as best as I can tell they were done right and pretty much the first time. And that is what we really expect as consumers - fix it right the first time. I hope I am as positive in 4 months as I am right now, but I strongly recommend you do not cancel your order.

Unlike some spineless pseudo-journalist (who I'll not name) faking thrills up their leg, your Abarth will give you a real, genuine thrill every time you get behind the wheel day in and day out. That's a no cost option not even available on 95% of the cars out there.

Go for it!

hanzo
10-26-2012, 08:32 AM
Hanzo - I can tell by your questions you're concerned about your order, maybe even re-considering your decision and afraid to purchase the Abarth.

I started this thread out of genuine concern and to learn more about my car. Never in a million years would I have wanted this thread to cause someone to not buy the Abarth. I'm not sure if you have actually driven one, or ordered just based on research? but I am back here to tell you this is one amazing little crotch rocket. The design is dead on, though as you read throughout these threads execution is not perfect. You've probably seen a lot of subjective comments (i.e. I don't like the FOB, or why does my interior door show white marks) along with some more serious concerns which right now seem to be primarily paint / body related and this engine / transmission leak.

I am not a patient person, have owned at least 18 vehicles during my life and driven 100's (a lot of business related rentals). Before buying my Abarth I drove and narrowed the selection down to 3 vehicles - the Abarth, the Scion FRS and a 1968 British green 327/4 speed Vette. You know what I bought.

No, my problem is not yet resolved but it is due as much to my delay in getting it back to the dealer as anything else. What I am seeing / reading is that Fiat is not leaving us stranded, not making some lame excuses and so far seems to genuinely be concerned about getting and making it right. And in the vast majority of cases - including my own - they step forward immediately to offer a loaner when they keep the car, I didn't even have to ask much less beg.

There are others who have joined the thread that have had leaks, had repairs done and as best as I can tell they were done right and pretty much the first time. And that is what we really expect as consumers - fix it right the first time. I hope I am as positive in 4 months as I am right now, but I strongly recommend you do not cancel your order.

Unlike some spineless pseudo-journalist (who I'll not name) faking thrills up their leg, your Abarth will give you a real, genuine thrill every time you get behind the wheel day in and day out. That's a no cost option not even available on 95% of the cars out there.

Go for it!

Thanks for the info. Yes I test drove one and really liked it.

Pinecone
10-27-2012, 12:38 PM
And remember, you here about PROBLEMS on the Internet. People rarely get online to start a thread that their car has no problems.

Ours has been fine. We did throw some check engine lights, but we knew that the PCM reflash was seeming to take care of them, so we took it in, had the reflash done, and no more lights

ChicagoAbarth
10-30-2012, 06:34 PM
Dealership called today. Transmission should be here Thursday (Nov 1) and they are planning on installing same day. They said I'd be able to pick it up on the 1st as well, but I have a feeling the 2nd is more likely. Hopefully this will be the end of my oil leak. As always, I will keep you guys updated.

PB408
10-31-2012, 07:46 AM
do you know your build month ?

FiatCares
10-31-2012, 11:40 AM
Dealership called today. Transmission should be here Thursday (Nov 1) and they are planning on installing same day. They said I'd be able to pick it up on the 1st as well, but I have a feeling the 2nd is more likely. Hopefully this will be the end of my oil leak. As always, I will keep you guys updated.

Thats good news finally. Let me know if I can help in any way

ChicagoAbarth
11-01-2012, 10:31 PM
do you know your build month ?

Sometime before mid-April when I picked it up. Any more than that, I don't know. The link I had to the Insight tracking page doesn't work anymore.

Car was, as I expected, not done today. They tell me it is almost finished and I can pick it up tomorrow.

ChicagoAbarth
11-02-2012, 05:04 PM
Just left the dealership. The transmission is in and they were happy with it on the road test. However, I noticed that the rear drivers side wheel was dinged and the sidewall was cut. I don't know if it happened when they picked it up, on its way to or from the Jeep dealership where the work was done, or on the road test. Fiat is blaming Jeep and Jeep is blaming Fiat.

They offered to let me take the car and they would come to my place with a new wheel and tire Monday. That is a very nice offer, but I didn't feel comfortable driving with a cut in the sidewall. Like everything there, it will take at least a day and service is closed on the weekend so maybe I'll get it back on Monday.

lammie200
11-03-2012, 12:35 PM
...They offered to let me take the car and they would come to my place with a new wheel and tire Monday. That is a very nice offer, but I didn't feel comfortable driving with a cut in the sidewall. Like everything there, it will take at least a day and service is closed on the weekend so maybe I'll get it back on Monday.

Smart move even if it is a bit inconvenient for you. Glad that you have gotten good service.

ChicagoAbarth
11-07-2012, 06:31 PM
so maybe I'll get it back on Monday.

lol, Monday. Got a call yesterday that the car would be ready today and they would call me. Said it would be around 11 but I would get a call either way. 2pm comes and goes without word from them so I decide to drive up and see whats going on. Car is ready, just waiting for me to pick it up. I wonder when they would have called?

Damaged wheel and tire have been replaced and transmission feels like it did before, so no complaints there either. It took a while, but I finally have my car back. I'll take it back in 1000 miles or so to see if the oil leak issue has been resolved.



Smart move even if it is a bit inconvenient for you. Glad that you have gotten good service.

I think they still have some work to do on the communication front. Don't tell someone you'll call and update them and then never call. Don't promise a car at a certain time and then still be working on it without calling. With that being said, I am happy so far with the work they've done, and they are nice people to deal with.

DCSconnect
12-04-2012, 11:00 PM
Totally satisfied, FIAT provided what might be the best service experience I have ever had with an auto manufacturer.

Diagnosed as transmission leak (seal on shaft), replaced and leak is gone. Why do I rate this as probably the best Service experience ever - and who am I comparing it against?

1. Fixed right, the first time (unlike Volkswagen and Dodge experience)

2. No lame excuses / reasons or trying to blame anything but themselves (and totally unlike Toyota, who seems to have an "excuse" for everything, hiding their internal TSB until your warranty runs out. Volkswagen is pretty good at this game as well). FIAT acknowledged it was a defect and they fixed it - period!

3. Probably one of the best Tech training programs bar none. Read this thread. How many times have you taken your car to get it worked on and gotten it back with "new" issues because of some piss poor mechanic work? Even if it was a new rattle? Or a nice new "grease" streak across the headliner? Lots of folks have gotten Leaks repaired - hey, this is major surgery by my standards and based on the description of my Service Advisor (and am I ever glad I did not hear it in advance). This car came back with no new issues AND even better than it went in (read on).

4. Bumper was completely repainted for slight above badge defect - looks even better than factory paint job - and my Service Advisor treated the bumper with Sealant (sorry forgot exact name) at no additional charge so the entire car would remained covered by that third party warranty.

5. I think the A/C blows colder as well - new refrig charge might be better than factory?

6. And - unlike all the others I've had (Ford, GM (Chev, Pontiac, Caddy), Toyota, Jeep, Volkswagen, Dodge, Suzuki) - a loaner car for the duration of the repair without even having to ask.

Two thumbs up to Team Fiat - Mall of Georgia, Jay and the entire crew not to mention FIAT as a manufacturer for doing it right! I could not be a more satisfied customer - and the icing on the cake is the car itself....what a hoot that little ABARTH is.

FiatCares
12-05-2012, 05:21 PM
Totally satisfied, FIAT provided what might be the best service experience I have ever had with an auto manufacturer.

Diagnosed as transmission leak (seal on shaft), replaced and leak is gone. Why do I rate this as probably the best Service experience ever - and who am I comparing it against?

1. Fixed right, the first time (unlike Volkswagen and Dodge experience)

2. No lame excuses / reasons or trying to blame anything but themselves (and totally unlike Toyota, who seems to have an "excuse" for everything, hiding their internal TSB until your warranty runs out. Volkswagen is pretty good at this game as well). FIAT acknowledged it was a defect and they fixed it - period!

3. Probably one of the best Tech training programs bar none. Read this thread. How many times have you taken your car to get it worked on and gotten it back with "new" issues because of some piss poor mechanic work? Even if it was a new rattle? Or a nice new "grease" streak across the headliner? Lots of folks have gotten Leaks repaired - hey, this is major surgery by my standards and based on the description of my Service Advisor (and am I ever glad I did not hear it in advance). This car came back with no new issues AND even better than it went in (read on).

4. Bumper was completely repainted for slight above badge defect - looks even better than factory paint job - and my Service Advisor treated the bumper with Sealant (sorry forgot exact name) at no additional charge so the entire car would remained covered by that third party warranty.

5. I think the A/C blows colder as well - new refrig charge might be better than factory?

6. And - unlike all the others I've had (Ford, GM (Chev, Pontiac, Caddy), Toyota, Jeep, Volkswagen, Dodge, Suzuki) - a loaner car for the duration of the repair without even having to ask.

Two thumbs up to Team Fiat - Mall of Georgia, Jay and the entire crew not to mention FIAT as a manufacturer for doing it right! I could not be a more satisfied customer - and the icing on the cake is the car itself....what a hoot that little ABARTH is.


Im very happy they provided such amazing service... :) :)

mgirod
12-05-2012, 06:22 PM
Sounds just like my experience with Crown of Chattanooga. BTW, I took my Sport in for the second oil change last week and while chatting with the service desk they told me they have now had six 500's in with rear main seal leaks. All automatics built around January, 2012.

msjulie33
01-06-2013, 12:01 PM
Why does it look like a bolt is not tight in the right side background? Am I just seeing thing?

4678

cmj912
01-06-2013, 12:02 PM
Why does it look like a bolt is not tight in the right side background? Am I just seeing thing?

4678
Unless that is a washer and not a space. Hard to tell.

msjulie33
01-06-2013, 01:04 PM
I feel like I'm seeing a thread or 2 from the bolt... old thread so I guess no major worries :)

Abarth Phreak
01-06-2013, 03:25 PM
I feel like I'm seeing a thread or 2 from the bolt... old thread so I guess no major worries :)

No, that is a MAJOR worry. Bolts need to be flush mounted (correctly) and torqued properly to stretch the bolt giving it its holding strength. It may not be a critical bolt, but a loose bolt can lead to other problems down the road. Get it looked at as soon as you can. From what I see in that pic, it is not right. That type of bolt head usually , but not always, is used without a washer.

msjulie33
01-06-2013, 03:35 PM
Agree it looks wrong but the thread is old, DCSconnect should report back what the resolution of the leak was?

DCSconnect
01-11-2013, 11:00 PM
msjulie33 - please scroll up to 12/4/12, problem resolved and described in that thread. Also, I do not think the bolt in question was loose or cause of the problem (that is not a washer but another plate between casing and bolt).

TubeDriver
03-04-2013, 05:37 PM
msjulie33 - please scroll up to 12/4/12, problem resolved and described in that thread. Also, I do not think the bolt in question was loose or cause of the problem (that is not a washer but another plate between casing and bolt).

While it looks like the bolt is not torqued down, if you magnify the pic you can see there is a black washer on that bolt. So what looks like empty space is actually a black metal/plastic washer.

DCSconnect
10-06-2013, 10:32 PM
I should really update this issue............after about 3 months the leak returned, so replacing the transmission seals did not fix the problem. The studio was authorized to replace the entire transmission, and that happened in April 2013. Now almost 6 months later I think I can confidently say it is truly fixed. I could not be happier with both the Abarth and Fiat. And while replacing the transmission to fix a leak might seem like overkill, I've seen others mentioning transmission problems and wonder if eventually I would have seen the same? I thank Fiat for doing the right thing and fixing this leak - and the car is still amazing after 18 months of ownership!

VTEC Mini
10-07-2013, 03:23 PM
I should really update this issue............after about 3 months the leak returned, so replacing the transmission seals did not fix the problem. The studio was authorized to replace the entire transmission, and that happened in April 2013. Now almost 6 months later I think I can confidently say it is truly fixed. I could not be happier with both the Abarth and Fiat. And while replacing the transmission to fix a leak might seem like overkill, I've seen others mentioning transmission problems and wonder if eventually I would have seen the same? I thank Fiat for doing the right thing and fixing this leak - and the car is still amazing after 18 months of ownership!

Be glad they replaced the transmission. They just resealed mine with enough RTV to be able to raise the Titanic. Looks like a High School autoshop project.

roddyracer
10-07-2013, 10:23 PM
Hello A Fiat tech has told me that tranny seepage can occur at the mating of the 5th gear housing with the main housing if the tranny is over filled..(.Seems to be happening from the factory with slight over fill of the fluid) .If correct, the leak should cease if the tranny fluid level is at proper level..Mine has this type leak so we'll see shortly...Rod