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yul
08-28-2012, 02:03 PM
Going to add the MM module and power pedal in the next few days to my Abarth. Thinking about upgrading my front brakes.....................Brembo or Tarbox?

thanks

MADNESSMIKE
08-28-2012, 03:18 PM
Both are great sets you cant go wrong with either one. I love the looks of the Tarox Big Brake Kit but Brembo is big name in Brakes. It is definitely a tough decision. If you need any help deciding you can give us a call 562 981-6800. Good Luck either way I doubt you will be disappointed.

FTY
08-28-2012, 03:28 PM
Going to add the MM module and power pedal in the next few days to my Abarth. Thinking about upgrading my front brakes.....................Brembo or Tarbox?

thanks

The R3T Rally cars use stock rears and Brembo Fronts. Both are fantastic sets though.

deathshead
08-28-2012, 08:13 PM
There is also Stop-tech who has a set out,
Baer I believe are doing a set.
K-sport, (IDK though, they make those terrible Taiwan coilovers,)

AbarthCDN
08-29-2012, 12:19 AM
Tarox is 6-pots but i like the Brembo flesh red more, so tempting but i would get something that will offer a full set both front+rear. WILWOOD is coming out the full kit next month in Sept.

Pinecone
08-29-2012, 09:52 AM
Personally, I would wait until someone has a full kit, front and rear.

Unless you have brake balance adjustment, front only BBK can actually increase stopping distance.

MADNESSMIKE
08-29-2012, 12:19 PM
Tarox is 6-pots but i like the Brembo flesh red more, so tempting but i would get something that will offer a full set both front+rear. WILWOOD is coming out the full kit next month in Sept.

We will have the Wilwood as well. Right now it is available for preorder of the phone. Here is the listing on our site.
http://500madness.com/500madness/shop/index.php?route=product/product&keyword=wilwood&product_id=1269

When we receive pricing we will update the site.

AbarthCDN
08-30-2012, 04:55 AM
But i like the Brembo text on it, lol. I know i am so demanding but WILWOOD will work for me, something i read mentioned the whole kit is less than $2k.

AbarthCDN
08-30-2012, 05:27 AM
By the way, any close-up pic for the Tarox cuz i want to see the how's metallic red looks like at a real closer view.

Crazy Otto
08-30-2012, 07:29 AM
going to larger rotors, bigger calipers and pads will not decrease your stopping distance. your stock setup is more than adequate for street use. it's a different story on the racetrack when you have to deal with heat from repeated hard braking.

if you want to decrease your stopping distances you have to increase tire friction- get more grip.

going to bigger brakes most likely will increase unsprung mass, which is never a good thing for handling.

now if you're wanting to look pretty with the big brake kit then go right ahead!

clipping a pix of my mercedes amg c32 front brakes - 3900+ lbs, 425hp, repeated maximum braking during hard track sessions/ time trials. rotors had a 10 events in the pix, the calipers are original on car and have endured about 40 events. notice the cracking, notice the discoloration of the calipers for the extreme heat. I ran porterfield rs4 pads and motul 600 fluid. no fade under these brutal conditions with the street setup.

i race my bmw m3 with the stock brake hardware- pads, lines and fluid of course.....

Pinecone
08-30-2012, 09:38 AM
Actually it can INCREASE your stopping distance. As the front brakes will reach the tire traction limit at a lower brake pedal pressure, leaving the rear brakes a long way from max braking.

This is why race cars have brake balance adjustment. Maximum braking is when both front and rear reach lockup at the same pedal pressure, And this changes with each track and conditions.

Maximum SAFE braking is where the fronts lock a tiny bit earlier than the rears (no ABS) to avoid the car swapping ends violently.

Thinking about it, a BBK front only would even be worse in the rain, as with lower traction, you need to move the brake balance to the rear due to the lack of weigth transfer.

TurboBullett@Ambient Thermal Management
08-30-2012, 12:39 PM
Generally if you depress the brakes hard and you get tire squeal or abs activation you are over braked and under tired(need wider stickier tires) If you get brake fade after repetitive usage you are under rotored in regards to swept area(rotors>pads) are getting hot. Things one can do to improve braking on stock brake setup are: steel braided lines-better fluid-better pads and wider stickier tires. Also remember using heavier/larger circumfrence brake components can lead to slower acceleration similar to using heavier wheels.

Crazy Otto
08-30-2012, 04:19 PM
Actually it can INCREASE your stopping distance. As the front brakes will reach the tire traction limit at a lower brake pedal pressure, leaving the rear brakes a long way from max braking.

This is why race cars have brake balance adjustment. Maximum braking is when both front and rear reach lockup at the same pedal pressure, And this changes with each track and conditions.

Maximum SAFE braking is where the fronts lock a tiny bit earlier than the rears (no ABS) to avoid the car swapping ends violently.

Thinking about it, a BBK front only would even be worse in the rain, as with lower traction, you need to move the brake balance to the rear due to the lack of weigth transfer.

yep- i use a tilton proportioning valve and it's adjusted almost to max rear bias. will be trying different friction compounds next set of pads.

Crazy Otto
08-30-2012, 04:28 PM
Generally if you depress the brakes hard and you get tire squeal or abs activation you are over braked and under tired(need wider stickier tires) If you get brake fade after repetitive usage you are under rotored in regards to swept area(rotors>pads) are getting hot. Things one can do to improve braking on stock brake setup are: steel braided lines-better fluid-better pads and wider stickier tires. Also remember using heavier/larger circumfrence brake components can lead to slower acceleration similar to using heavier wheels.

not exactly true.

every street car with properly functioning brake has the capability to lock the tire. you would have to go a ridiculouly sticky or wide tire to overpower the brake system.

you can have green fade, pad fade or fluid fade or a combination of all. http://www.seinesystems.com/BrakeFade.htm the point i was trying to make with the photo was that you can get a undersized brake system to function quite well by optimizing pads and fluid.

only the rotor is part of rotating mass so only that can create issues similar to a heavy wheel. the caliper etc will add to mass particularly unsprung mass.

AbarthCDN
09-01-2012, 11:12 PM
Whatever you experts say but i am doing it! Just love to way it looks on the street and i am not a deadhard racer anyway.

Pinecone
09-02-2012, 07:24 AM
not exactly true.

every street car with properly functioning brake has the capability to lock the tire. you would have to go a ridiculouly sticky or wide tire to overpower the brake system.

you can have green fade, pad fade or fluid fade or a combination of all. http://www.seinesystems.com/BrakeFade.htm the point i was trying to make with the photo was that you can get a undersized brake system to function quite well by optimizing pads and fluid.

only the rotor is part of rotating mass so only that can create issues similar to a heavy wheel. the caliper etc will add to mass particularly unsprung mass.

Yep.

But if you are getting fluid or pad fade, you may need bigger rotors (more mass) to deal with the heat. And drilled rotors are NOT for cooling, due to the reduced mass, you actually LOSE brake performance.

Pad fade may also be due to the choice of pads.

Green fade is only a problem with new (green) pads. Proper bedding will prevent this.

Pinecone
09-02-2012, 07:27 AM
yep- i use a tilton proportioning valve and it's adjusted almost to max rear bias. will be trying different friction compounds next set of pads.

Go out somewhere safe and pull the ABS fuse and do some hard stops just to lock up. Figure out which end is locking up first, and adjust until the fronts lock JUST before the rears.

It might help to have someone watch from outside. And you need level ground to do this, uphill or downhill affects the balance setting.

At Summit Point we have a fast downhill corner (Turn 4) into a very slow corner. This requires hard braking downhill. So you set your brake balance for this braking zone. On street cars, you have ABS to deal with the small variations like this.

deathshead
09-02-2012, 10:42 PM
When I test drove the Abarth, I was really impressed by the stock brakes, they have that nice solid bite and response felt great as well,
This setup with even BETTER pads and stainless braided lines should be more than enough for the street.
Do you really need this?
http://i49.tinypic.com/dol4ap.jpg


However, the TAR-OX setup looks absolutely tits.
The Wilwood looks awesome, you just pull the wire holder and and pop out the pads.
faster to change pads than taking the tires off and on.
http://i50.tinypic.com/2yv2iyx.jpg

I may want to upgrade down the road.. the reasoning is that I live up in the steep mountains of Northeastern PA.
I'm constantly dealing with warping rotors into pretzels and glazing constantly.

AbarthCDN
09-03-2012, 02:45 AM
Tarox is my first choice too but after reading all the useful comments, i might go with either WILWOOD or STOPTECH because they offer a full set of 4. Besides, i like the bright red more than the Tarox metallic red.

Crazy Otto
09-03-2012, 08:14 AM
Go out somewhere safe and pull the ABS fuse and do some hard stops just to lock up. Figure out which end is locking up first, and adjust until the fronts lock JUST before the rears.

It might help to have someone watch from outside. And you need level ground to do this, uphill or downhill affects the balance setting.

At Summit Point we have a fast downhill corner (Turn 4) into a very slow corner. This requires hard braking downhill. So you set your brake balance for this braking zone. On street cars, you have ABS to deal with the small variations like this.
No ABS on the race car. Ill solve my issue by changing compounds. Ive practised at summit, car broke before race. Going back in nov.

njboy
09-03-2012, 08:23 AM
Weight distribution is the real problem with this car. Seems like it has a high forward Center of Gravity.

Crazy Otto
09-03-2012, 08:32 AM
Weight distribution is the real problem with this car. Seems like it has a high forward Center of Gravity.
Not seems, it does! I shake my head when I see folks deleting rear seats. I would be interested in cf hood if and when one becomes available at reasonable price.

Pinecone
09-03-2012, 03:40 PM
No ABS, you have to adjust brake balance for each track. Find the one point that encourages rear lockup first, and adjust so it doesn't.

HF Stinger
09-04-2012, 02:15 AM
Not seems, it does! I shake my head when I see folks deleting rear seats. I would be interested in cf hood if and when one becomes available at reasonable price.

I deleted my rear seats because I will NEVER put someone in the back of my car. With the seats gone there is more room for the dogs as well as whatever I may haul home from Costco.

After poking around under the car during my suspension install I couldn't believe how much room there is below the floor in the rear end of the car. Mounting the battery in the back down low would be brilliant - Audi always did this too bad more companies haven't adopted it.

I'll keep watching the progress on the Wilwood kit, they aren't as exotic as Brembo's but I have no issue running them, been great on my other cars.

Some people don't realize the potential weight savings when going to an aluminum caliper and a two-piece rotor. Lots of unsprung weight to be shed there when you start removing iron and replacing it with aluminum. Even a 4 piston Wilwood caliper will be pounds-less than the original caliper, and same goes for the two-piece rotor with an aluminum hat.

dummy
09-04-2012, 04:31 AM
Some people don't realize the potential weight savings when going to an aluminum caliper and a two-piece rotor. Lots of unsprung weight to be shed there when you start removing iron and replacing it with aluminum. Even a 4 piston Wilwood caliper will be pounds-less than the original caliper, and same goes for the two-piece rotor with an aluminum hat.

This would be the reasoning behind my upgrading the actual brakes. Usually pads and lines do enough. I know with the StopTech BBK on my Golf R I am saving over 10 pounds on each of the front corners moving to a 4 piston aluminum caliper with a 2-piece front rotor. The brakes are really not any bigger and the swept area is basically the same, but that simple drop of 10 pounds really can be felt on acceleration and braking.

The reason to go with a aluminum caliper and 2 piece rotor setup is the same as going with a lightweight rim. Quicker acceleration and braking.

AbarthCDN
09-04-2012, 05:28 AM
STOPTECH vs. WILWOOD now

Pinecone
09-08-2012, 06:38 AM
Both are good.

Stoptech has more of a name in the road race world. But Wilwood has been around for a while making very good products.

AbarthCDN
09-10-2012, 12:54 AM
These are freaking nice!
http://d5otzd52uv6zz.cloudfront.net/a569f057-6cba-4ec5-9bc3-f27d6cfca314-800.jpg
2-pieces LIGHT WEIGHT AIRCRAFT-GRADE ALUMINUM - 8lb lighter per rotor = 30lb lighter off all 4 wheels!

TurboBullett@Ambient Thermal Management
09-11-2012, 01:04 PM
Both are great sets you cant go wrong with either one. I love the looks of the Tarox Big Brake Kit but Brembo is big name in Brakes. It is definitely a tough decision. If you need any help deciding you can give us a call 562 981-6800. Good Luck either way I doubt you will be disappointed.

Mike could you post the information on the various kits in regards to the rotors?

-1 or 2 piece?
-rotor weight vs stock?
-rotor diameter vs stock?
-rotor thickness/width?

I'm potentially in the market for the Wilwood front and rear kit when it's released BUT want to make sure the rotors are thick enough in this application as I know they were too thin on the Mini and would heat up too much when racing!

Robert Nixon
09-11-2012, 01:19 PM
I'm not an expert or racer, but am glad to see mention of moving the battery to the trunk to address the weight balance!

Pinecone
09-11-2012, 02:00 PM
Not sure why Fiat did not do this themself.

26+ pounds moved from front to rear would be nice.

Add a CF hood and drop some 20 pounds up front. :)

Jjm4life
09-11-2012, 02:17 PM
I'm all for seeing a battery relocation kit. The front weight bias is ridiculous. I know it's never going to be a fast car, or even a great handling one. But it could be dynamically better through weight balance.

AbarthCDN
09-12-2012, 01:57 AM
HELP ME TO CHOOSE HERE!

WILWOOD - Pricing is way better under $2k for a full set of 4 both front+rear calipers. Very nice drilled/slotted/vented rotors at a VERY decent price-point.

STOPTECH - Over $2k, more of a name out there and it's 100% track proven performance! Doesn't come with rear calipers which they insist that it is unnecessary and will even cause more braking issues if does. Upgraded brake lines and pads for the rear is plenty than enough.

Comments?

Jjm4life
09-12-2012, 02:10 AM
I've had personal experience with both wilwood and stopwatch. For the $$ the wilwood will do the job.

Just bought a wilwood brake resiviour for my motorcycle not too long ago. Easy to work with and fast shipping.