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unknown_eyes
02-29-2012, 07:28 PM
Has anyone installed the Road Race timing controller or familiar with it?
http://roadracemotorsports.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=76_77&products_id=1106

What kind of HP gain can be expected?

Is this something than would need to be removed before taking the car in for service?

Is it safe to install?

Will it have a drastic negative effect on MPG during normal driving conditions?

I have already installed a Mopar CAI, they claim 7HP gain. I have a Borla cat-back exhaust on the way, est prob 2-3 HP gain?? Was thinking of adding the timing controller for a little more bump. Looking at possibly a 10-15HP gain over stock with all 3 installed? Are these estimates realistic? The car is much more responsive with just the CAI, but has given me the bug for more power. I dont plan on racing the car, just improving the fun factor even more!

AMX
03-10-2012, 01:10 PM
I purchased one and installed it yesterday. Not to give up any trade secrets, but it is an add on or piggy back device. It plugs into the MAP sensor harness and the claim is that by doing so the ignition timing is advanced 4-5 degrees. Advancing the timing should give a good boost in low rpm torque, and 4 degrees should be very noticeable. The dyno chart that RRM shows clearly shows an improvement throughout the rpm range. What can not be discerned from a dyno test is the driveability at part power. In an old school car (such as an AMX, LOL) advancing the timing can make a night and day difference.
The Road Race Motorsports Timing Controller works as advertised. I was concerned that I would not be able to feel a difference, but the difference was obvious before I could back out of the garage. I would describe the difference as similar to with and without sport mode, better throttle response, easier to pull away from a stop, more "grunt" at low rpm. But the difference is bigger. I typically like to use sport mode for pulling away, but I forgot the first time and the car takes off better with sport off than it did before with sport mode on. Where I would shift at 2000 just put-putting around, can now shift at 1500. Where I would downshift to go up a moderate hill, just chugs along fine. Where the car was happy at 2000 rpm, is now happy at 1500. So yes, mileage probably will be better. Under no circumstance would advancing the timing have an adverse impact on mileage.
After a nice drive, I had a chance to take off in sport mode. Wow. Actually spun the tires a little without even trying. I left the house with the DIC showing 40 mpg. I came back after a day of driving around, probably 75 miles, still showing 40 mpg.
When you wind it out, seems to pull harder all the way to red line. I will probably do a back to back test dragstrip test when the weather gets warmer to quantify the top end power increase. But for now my butt dyno confirms the 5HP claim. There is no reason why you would not get an additional gain in performance over and above what your existing mods have given you.
All notes and opinions above were based on 93 octane....
AMX guy.

AMX
03-10-2012, 08:11 PM
I bought one, and installed it yesterday. It made the car much more responsive, from idle to redline. I think any modification to engine managment should be removed before you take it to a dealer for any reason, and the T/C just plugs into the harness for the MAP so it is easy to remove. In my opinion completely safe, because any situation where the additional ignition advance would cause a problem, the knock sensor will retard the timing. But from the way my car performs, no sign of anything. MPG will improve if anything.
AMX Guy

unknown_eyes
03-10-2012, 08:21 PM
I bought one, and installed it yesterday. It made the car much more responsive, from idle to redline. I think any modification to engine managment should be removed before you take it to a dealer for any reason, and the T/C just plugs into the harness for the MAP so it is easy to remove. In my opinion completely safe, because any situation where the additional ignition advance would cause a problem, the knock sensor will retard the timing. But from the way my car performs, no sign of anything. MPG will improve if anything.
AMX Guy

Thanks for the info. I am still considering it. I would like to hear your impressions on this after it's been on the car for a while. Definately keep us posted.

AMX
04-10-2012, 08:49 PM
I know this may sound odd to some of you, but I am a drag racer, and I have found the track to be a pretty good $10 dyno. I took my Fiat to the dragstrip, and ran with and withoug the RRM timing controller. Results confirmed what I felt with the "butt dyno", better performance on the low end. Mph in the 1/8th mile and 1/4 mile increased only incrementally, but 60' and 330' were significantly improved. I ran with the T/C, two passes without, and again with T/C just to rule out track conditions, launch variation, etc. I did NOT launch the car hard, just roll out and go, shifting at a conservative 6000 rpm. Picked up about 0.05 on the 60' and about 2 tenths and 1 mph on the quarter, as I said mostly showed up by the 330 foot. I have a drag race simulator that I have used to match real world ET on several cars, the simulator program says my results equate to about a 5% improvment in power, pretty much what RRM claims for their T/C. I now have the Injen intake installed, hope to get the car to the track again to confirm what my butt tells me, improvement on the top end.
"AMX guy"

FiatFighter
04-11-2012, 02:59 AM
I really think I'm going to pick one up myself, along with rrm's intake and exhaust , I had alot of RRM's parts on my Tiburon many moons ago and they really are a hell of a tuner company. Very glad they decided to look at the fiat.

elguapo64
04-12-2012, 08:55 PM
I just bought mine today. It's shipping and I should have it by tomorrow. Already modified the exhaust. I also purchased the Corsa intake. This unit does make sense as far as performance. I used to drag race a lot with carburated VW aircooled cars. So I understand why they, (RRM), didn't make any changes on the fuel/air mix. However the increased flow capacity will allow the car to kick up the fuel. I run super only so the timing advancement will definitely help.

The butt dyno isn't necessarily scientific, but if u know your car well it's a good reference point. My butt dyno gave me an indication that the exhaust helped.

FiaTED
04-13-2012, 11:21 AM
Is the installation of the Road Race Timer a DIYer?

What are the steps?

Thanks for your insight

unknown_eyes
04-14-2012, 10:26 AM
Its plug and play and accessible on the top of the engine towards the rear.

AMX
04-14-2012, 10:01 PM
Basically it is a box with two connectors on it that plugs in between the MAP sensor and the MAP sensor wiring harness. You pull the connector off the MAP sensor, connect it to one on the box, connect the other from the box back to the MAP sensor.

Knuckledragger
04-27-2012, 03:11 AM
I made a mount for this product:

1876

Wolfie
05-01-2012, 09:55 PM
Its plug and play and accessible on the top of the engine towards the rear.

Picture pls ;-)

Thunderbolt
05-02-2012, 01:39 AM
Wolfie, if you follow the link in the original post to 500madness's site, there are photos there.

And conveniently, when you're on that page, all you have to do is click "add to cart"... :)

Wolfie
05-02-2012, 02:12 AM
Wolfie, if you follow the link in the original post to 500madness's site, there are photos there.

Actually, I already found pics on RRM's website - thanks for the info anyways!

I wonder if the valve cover will still fit after installing the timing controller with the Cohort AutoŽ Fiat 500 TCU Mount? (would like to keep the original look under the hood)

Thanks

Thunderbolt
05-02-2012, 02:55 AM
Actually, I already found pics on RRM's website - thanks for the info anyways!

I wonder if the valve cover will still fit after installing the timing controller with the Cohort AutoŽ Fiat 500 TCU Mount? (would like to keep the original look under the hood)

Thanks

OOPS you're right, that was RRM's site, not 500madness...

Hopefully somebody can answer your question, as I'd like to know also. Thinking about getting this controller and mount myself.

mancalvo1
05-05-2012, 12:13 AM
Do you think is it really worth the cost?:numbness:

unknown_eyes
05-05-2012, 11:22 AM
Do you think is it really worth the cost?:numbness:

This is the question that keeps me from ordering it.

Is it really worth $350??

Felnus
05-05-2012, 01:09 PM
According to Car and Driver magazine, RRM claimed that the timing controller added 6 hp when used in conjunction with their intake and exhaust products which were claimed to add 5 hp for just the intake alone or 9 hp when the intake and exhaust were used together so their car was supposed to be up 15 horsepower at the wheels compared to a stock 500. The modified 500 was found to be 0.2 to 0.5 seconds quicker to 60mph and 0.3 to 0.5 seconds quicker through the quarter mile than two other 500s C&D had tested so RRM's products are making horsepower.

As to whether it is worth it, the only resolution to that question for you is to buy it and see if it is worth it to you. I've been wrestling with the same question myself.

grippymonkey
05-17-2012, 12:25 AM
I'm still deciding if I want to go with one of these. I like the idea of it, and I know the "feel" will be better. I just don't know that it's worth it for my use for a few HP on a commuter car.

hmmm decisions...

Roxy500
06-03-2012, 12:58 AM
I just bought one of the RoadRace Timing Controllers .At first I noticed zero difference when I first installed it . Then I turned the car off and when I turned the car back on 1/2 hr later it was a little different .. I didn't need the Sport Button for the car to get out of its own way . Do I think it gained 7hp at the wheel ? Prolly not but it certainly improved the way the car runs . One thing I am certain of is that horsepower for these Fiats is stupid expensive . In my case $80-$100 per pony with a cold air induction, pipe and timer .
But not to hijack the thread I bought one and I do notice a positive difference . 2 more mpgs and a little more grunt . My only question was why wasn't the car like this from the factory ? Fact is it wasn't and RoadRace cashed in. Job well done on their behalf.

fujio001
06-13-2012, 03:19 AM
How much of a difference did the box make in throttle response?

Roxy500
06-14-2012, 12:32 AM
I'm not sure since I already had a throttle boost installed prior to the controller .
I would think it would help with the throttle response . What is funny with the timing controller when I turn the throttle booster off I don't really notice the throttle booster much.. I'm realizing that with both it's kinda pointless . If one or the other get the timing controller .

AMX
06-19-2012, 07:36 PM
Over several tanks of fuel, I saw about 1 mpg improvement. I got two tenths and a mph in the quarter, a significant improvment, consistent with a 5-7 HP gain. Throttle response is noticeable, as I said before, a lot like the sport button. I never even bother with sport mode any more. Overall I can feel it and measure the improvement. Is it worth $350, only you can decide.
R.

Thunderbolt
06-19-2012, 11:02 PM
AMX, what octane gas do you use? I assume that you can't use anything less than 91 when you're advancing the timing.

Any CEL issues?

AMX
06-20-2012, 08:25 PM
I live in Ohio, so you are correct, I can get 93 octane anywhere, and that is what I always have used. Not that you couldn't use 91, I would assume that the knock sensor would compensate if needed. The real benifit to the TC is the low load response. I did get a check engine light last week, for IAT sensor "out of range". I cleared the code, and it has not come back. MY understanding is that the IAT sensor is located close to the mass air flow sensor, like most modern cars. The timing controller plugs into the MAP sensor at the other end of the engine. I do have an Ingen CAI and the code came up on a very hot day when the car was parked outside, and then I ran up the entrance ramp a little more aggressively than usual. I assumed that I went from hot to cold quickly enough that the ECU flagged a code. I did not make any connection to the RRM TC when I got the code. MY ASSUMPTION is without doing any reverse engineering is that the RRM TC shifts the MAP sensor table, fooling the ECU into thinking that the car is at high altitude where the timing map allows more timing. Whether its a $350 resistor or something more complicated, I honesly don't know. My assessment was I would try it, see if I could feel it, and see what performance I got from it without second guessing the effort that RRM put into it. The box is not potted, simply screwed together. But my feeling is it works as advertised, I got my money's worth, and somebody had to do a lot of work to figure out how to make it work and for that they deserve their money, so I didn't open the box to see what is actually in there. Could I? Sure. Would I? Probably not. More than likely I could open it up, duplicate it, and get my money back on E-bay selling it, but that's not me. I was a little annoyed that I got the code, because to take it to the dealer I have to put all the stock stuff back on. But its OK for now. Will advise if the code comes back.
Ralfy

wildman
10-15-2012, 09:30 PM
I have a few concerns about this device, it plugs between the map sensor and ecu, so it's only possible mode of operation is to falsify the value sent to the ecu.

I'd bet it is similar to the circuit in the map sensor section of this page http://www.fuelsaver-mpg.com/tuning-for-mileage

It concerns me because raising the value of the map signal will add timing, but also pulls fuel. The ecu adjust both fuel and timing based on the value of map, not to mention the ecu may decide to use a different valve algorithm, being multiair.

The package is nicely done but for what it does I would make one myself. And definitely get it off before service.

Not that I wouldn't do this, but I'd be careful with it. And I would rather it had a knob.. To dial it back. Or a switch to disable it altogether.

wildman
10-16-2012, 10:05 AM
a similiar device designed to do the same thing for a different reason.

http://www.fiat500usaforum.com/showthread.php?4901-Road-Race-timing-controller/page3

wildman
10-16-2012, 01:23 PM
here is one that is adjustable, has two settings, and can be disabled by switch.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/sis.html?_nkw=Dual+Edge+MAP+MAF+Sensor+Enhancer+HH O+Water4Gas+EFIE+


one more thing then ill back off this topic.. you may be able to offset the reduction in afr that comes with the addition of advance this causes, by adding resistance to your iat sensor. thought being even more power to be had with advanced timing and additional fuel.

wildman
10-28-2012, 07:24 AM
Some research tells me the map sensor on the fiat 500 is actually a map/ iat sensor. So it is possible that the timing controller is nothing more than a resistor inline with the iat signal.

Furthermore I bought a kiwi2 odb2 scanner and did the research. Using a $20 dual edge o2 sensor enhancer. I wire it first into the map signal line. White wire with red stripe. With any amount of change the fuel trims began to vary wildly. The car ran like crap.

With it moved to the iat wire, white with a green stripe. I was able to change the value of air temp in a very gradual and consistent way. I currently have it set to show 50 degrees when it is really 80. So 30 less.

I was able to detect a 2-4 degree difference in timing advance.. More advance, also a bit more fuel that is quickly reduced by the short trim value. So this has the effect of only adding advance, sine the fuel is pulled back out by the ecu.

So the 4 wire map/iat sensor Pinout is like so.
1 white with orange stripe is 5 volt input from the ecu
2 white with red stripe is map sensor signal to the ecu.
3 violet with brown stripe is ground
4 white with green stripe is manifold air temp signal to the ecu.
I also located a Pinout chart of the ecu that I will post in another post later.

So $20 for an adjustable switchable version. Save $320 :)

babelhoo
10-30-2012, 10:34 AM
This is interesting! keep us posted!

RoadRace
12-01-2012, 12:55 PM
I bought one, and installed it yesterday. It made the car much more responsive, from idle to redline. I think any modification to engine managment should be removed before you take it to a dealer for any reason, and the T/C just plugs into the harness for the MAP so it is easy to remove. In my opinion completely safe, because any situation where the additional ignition advance would cause a problem, the knock sensor will retard the timing. But from the way my car performs, no sign of anything. MPG will improve if anything.
AMX Guy

The response is great. We were very happy about the results. It is the best single add on for any of the N/A 500s. Plus it is undetectable. Go for service and unplug it. When you return, reinstall it. Also some people do not realize, we have a mount for these and we have a pre-drilled mounting spot for it on our engine cover/ heat shield. Again a very nice piece. All of these bits are designed to work together and fit together even though they all work alone as well. This was all thought out in advance to give people options. I have even seen a RRM cover that has had a Carbon Look coating applied to it. Very cool looking. Call us if you have any questions. thnx

ROAD/RACE

RoadRace
12-02-2012, 03:03 PM
Read this from AUTOWEEK. This car had a timing controller and our intake and exhaust. It gets 2 Thumbs up. Jay Leno too drove this car. Again 2 thumbs up. Road & Track, Car and Driver all are impressed with the difference.
These are independent and would love to find fault but they all agreed that this was the fastest, best handling and stopping FIAT 500 they have driven.

http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6048/6346279550_bd1361d429_n.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/roadrace/6346279550/)
AUTOWEEK FIAT 500 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/roadrace/6346279550/) by ROCKHARD37 (http://www.flickr.com/people/roadrace/), on Flickr


ROAD/RACE

RoadRace
12-02-2012, 03:24 PM
This unit was tested for 4 months and is the only choice for 500s that want more power, period. It works and works and works.

Here is a dyno sheet.Look at the power curve. The curve is Key to drivable power. The best in the industry.

http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6201/6072289008_2820cdfc79_n.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/roadrace/6072289008/)
Fiat 500 STOCKvs TC-86HP (http://www.flickr.com/photos/roadrace/6072289008/) by ROCKHARD37 (http://www.flickr.com/people/roadrace/), on Flickr


ROAD/RACE

RoadRace
12-03-2012, 12:21 PM
Forgot to tell you, there is a Holiday Special on a package that includes the Timing Controller/ECM. It is the last time at this price and a real value.

ROAD/RACE

RoadRace
12-06-2012, 11:40 AM
Basically it is a box with two connectors on it that plugs in between the MAP sensor and the MAP sensor wiring harness. You pull the connector off the MAP sensor, connect it to one on the box, connect the other from the box back to the MAP sensor.

Easy to install and remove. Dealer will never know about it either if you remove it when you go in for service.

ROAD/RACE

azneiman
02-27-2014, 07:17 PM
Which throttle boost do u have?

LuckyJayRRM
02-27-2014, 07:37 PM
Which throttle boost do u have?

Not sure what the question is exactly, the timing controller is for non-turbo models of the 500. We have our Ultimate ECM that can help reduce throttle lag

Tweak
02-27-2014, 10:48 PM
Which throttle boost do u have?

Welcome to the forum.

Also as Jay stated, bit confusing question you've posed.

RoadRace
02-28-2014, 12:53 PM
Please call for more info. I know I can help explain or answer any of your questions and concerns. RRM's TC is the only thing of its kind for the 500 Non- Turbo. I know that this will be an amazing mod. It has been for everyone that bought it. It makes real power and improves response. It is not a GO Pedal that just make you feel a faster gas pedal (sensation of power without and power gained.) This does change timing curves so that power and response is realized. In fact, numerous dynos show 6+ h.p. gained by the TC alone. I found it on our flickr. Solid gains in both Torque and H.P.

https://c1.staticflickr.com/7/6201/6072289008_2820cdfc79_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/roadrace/6072289008/)
Fiat 500 STOCKvs TC-86HP (http://www.flickr.com/photos/roadrace/6072289008/) by ROCKHARD37 (http://www.flickr.com/people/roadrace/), on Flickr

ROAD/RACE

lammie200
02-28-2014, 01:38 PM
I have one. I haven't dyno'd my car but my car drives well with tons of torque. It also has plenty of top end and I have no freeway passing issues. I am sure that I wouldn't enjoy my car's responsiveness without it. I will add that Go-pedals or Sprint Boosters are valuable as well if you want to get some feel out of the accelerator pedal. Imagine a cable driven throttle with a very loose cable. That is stock. Now imagine adjusting the cable to have no slack. That is the Go-pedal or Sprint Booster. It is unfortunate that we cannot flash our cars to take care of these issues, but hats off to places like RRM that provide alternatives.

RoadRace
03-02-2014, 01:52 PM
I have one. I haven't dyno'd my car but my car drives well with tons of torque. It also has plenty of top end and I have no freeway passing issues. I am sure that I wouldn't enjoy my car's responsiveness without it. but hats off to places like RRM that provide alternatives.



Pedals are just about feel. This is real power and real efficiency. You sound like you enjoy your car now. Maybe without it, you didn't enjoy the car so much. Dynoing is a waste of money. You know what you feel and you measure real world which is the important measure of the effectiveness of the parts. Use your money for more RRM bits. Thnx

RRM

lammie200
03-02-2014, 02:11 PM
...You sound like you enjoy your car now. Maybe without it, you didn't enjoy the car so much... Use your money for more RRM bits. ThnxRRM

I had some experience test driving NA 500's before I bought mine. Also one of my sisters beat me to it and had hers a year before I bought mine. I pretty much knew what to expect, so I budgeted for the upgrades. I don't know if I would be unhappy without the upgrades, but I know that I wouldn't be as enthusiastic for sure. Just really glad that this car is easy to work on and places like RRM have developed great products for it. I am at my limit now so I won't be swapping anything that I have for something comparable unless a break through product comes to market and I can swing the $$$'s. But Rob you are a great salesman!

Not really sure how much I am going to enjoy my 500 today though. I have to take one of my sisters in law out for her birthday. Her mouth has more horsepower than my 500, and could probably silence an Abarth as well. She has her way with torque as well :( Didn't really need to dyno to figure that out :)

Tweak
03-02-2014, 07:57 PM
^^^ The sister part...hilarious!!! :D

RoadRace
03-03-2014, 02:26 PM
Women usually have a better BUTT DYNO than us. Just observation! LOL


ROAD/RACE

Tweak
03-03-2014, 07:13 PM
Women usually have a better BUTT DYNO than us. Just observation! LOL


ROAD/RACE

Women butt...yes, dyno...ah who cares...haha, too distracted to look at a dyno at that point. :D

lammie200
03-03-2014, 08:01 PM
The issue with my sister in law is that she blurs the line between what is below her belt and above her thighs with what is above her neck. It takes a diplomat of the highest ability to deal with it. :)

RoadRace
03-04-2014, 12:52 PM
Maybe sounds complicated. RRM's Timing Controller is not complicated!

ROAD/RACE

aelfwyne
10-27-2014, 02:58 PM
How is this different from the resistors that are sold eBay that change the input air temperature to force the computer to change the timing?

EIS-MAN
12-18-2016, 03:58 AM
I had one on a 500 Sport and was very happy with it. Noticed a nice improvement in power across the rev range (Which is very welcome in the normally aspirated 500) and it was a straight forward install and did not throw any CEL codes.

Sales@roadrace
12-19-2016, 06:43 PM
It is very effective. IN fact it dynoed 7 h.p. alone and with our intake exhaust we had healthy double digit gain in torque and h.p.

RRM

RustyShackleford
07-09-2017, 03:09 AM
How is this different from the resistors that are sold eBay that change the input air temperature to force the computer to change the timing?

Has anyone answered this?