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View Full Version : Abarth gearing, same as 500?



Mike S
02-25-2012, 08:08 PM
It's still a 5 speed but is it the same one?

epb
02-25-2012, 09:19 PM
It's still a 5 speed but is it the same one?

The 500 Abarth uses a different gearbox to deal with the additional torque, but I believe the gear ratios are the same.

Fiat500USA
02-25-2012, 10:04 PM
Fiat 500 Abarth transmission specs:

Gear Ratios
1st 3.909
2nd 2.238
3rd 1.520
4th 1.156
5th 0.872
Reverse 3.909
Final-drive Ratio 3.353

US Fiat 500 Transmission specs:

Gear Ratios
1st 3.909
2nd 2.158
3rd 1.345
4th 0.974
5th 0.766
Reverse 3.818
Final-drive Ratio 3.733

WarLes
02-26-2012, 11:38 AM
So with a lower final drive ratio, the Abarth should get better highway mileage... right?

Mike S
02-26-2012, 02:56 PM
This is moved, but WHERE?

I can't find where it would be moved to.

jbutle19
02-26-2012, 03:29 PM
I figured the ratios would be different. In a regular 500 2nd is like a blink of the eye

Fiat500USA
02-26-2012, 09:50 PM
This is moved, but WHERE?

I can't find where it would be moved to.

Moved to the Abarth forum;)

Have Trumpet Will Travel
02-27-2012, 12:27 AM
According to post #3, in the Abarth: first is 10% higher (longer), so if stock 500 goes 30 mph, Abarth goes 33 mph at same rpm. Second gear = 7% higher: 45 mph=48mph. THEN the ratios tighten-up (shorter) by: Third -2.5% / Fourth -6.2% / Fifth -2.2% , meaning the top three gears should pull REALLY strong, especially 4th gear. Those top three gears should really perk-up the car, I'd love to have them in my 2012 "Pop" and that's the reason for my saying elsewhere that I intend to replace the stock P185 tires with ones about 2% smaller in circumference to "tighten" my gearing. Time will tell. (Luckily, tires in this size aren't cost-prohibitive. Onlinetires.com has P195/45 x 15's starting at less than $60 / are they O.K.? hmmm). H.T.W.T. OOPS, back again. Math says I better try P 195/50 x 15's or gearing will go TOO deep with the /45 aspect ratio. Again, over time . . . H.T.W.T.

Fix it again Tony
02-27-2012, 01:48 AM
According to post #3, in the Abarth: first is 10% higher (longer), so if stock 500 goes 30 mph, Abarth goes 33 mph at same rpm. Second gear = 7% higher: 45 mph=48mph. THEN the ratios tighten-up (shorter) by: Third -2.5% / Fourth -6.2% / Fifth -2.2% , meaning the top three gears should pull REALLY strong, especially 4th gear. Those top three gears should really perk-up the car, I'd love to have them in my 2012 "Pop" and that's the reason for my saying elsewhere that I intend to replace the stock P185 tires with ones about 2% smaller in circumference to "tighten" my gearing. Time will tell. (Luckily, tires in this size aren't cost-prohibitive. Onlinetires.com has P195/45 x 15's starting at less than $60 / are they O.K.? hmmm). H.T.W.T. OOPS, back again. Math says I better try P 195/50 x 15's or gearing will go TOO deep with the /45 aspect ratio. Again, over time . . . H.T.W.T.

So is there a final gearing difference between 15 and 16 inch wheels?

Have Trumpet Will Travel
02-27-2012, 02:16 AM
So is there a final gearing difference between 15 and 16 inch wheels? Very good point. That difference alone could even things out. Stock "Pop" tires are 23" in diameter (P185/55 x 15"). Last time I checked, the 16" wheels ran a lower (numerical) aspect-ratio tire, hence the overall diameter was negliable, less than 0.5%, so now the question would be: What size are the 500 ABARTH tires? Thanks for pointing this out . . . back to my research. O.K., I stand corrected - but not by much. THE Fiat 500 USA info lists the Abarth's tire/wheel sizes as 195/45 x 16" which equates to 22.91" O.D. or four-tenths percent. For those who want taller overall gearing a 17" wheel shod with 205/40 x 17" tyres is also offered, offering-up a 23.46" O.D.; hence the 901 revs. per mile (16" tire) versus the 877 revs. per mile (17" tire) - note these are TIRE r.p.m. not engine r.p.m. In all aspects of manufacturing a tolerance is allowed, including tire production, SO . . . figures will vary somewhat, keeps things interesting. Again, thanks for the "heads-up" on the different wheel sizes; in this range a 1/4" in diameter equals roughly one percent. Only numbing numbers - - - H.T.W.T.

nyc eng
02-27-2012, 10:56 AM
Speed at a corresponding rpm for the Abarth with 16" wheels & 500 Sport with 16" wheels..

Please note the first two rows for each vehicle indicate the approximate RPM at 56mph and 61mph.


http://www.fiat500usaforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1352&d=1330354060

luke_vibert_uk
02-27-2012, 12:57 PM
The difference between 16 and 17s is marginal and to be honest the speedo on the car isn't the most accurate tool in the world...

All you need to know is that 60mph plus is dispatched in 2nd

Fix it again Tony
02-27-2012, 08:28 PM
Very good point. That difference alone could even things out. Stock "Pop" tires are 23" in diameter (P185/55 x 15"). Last time I checked, the 16" wheels ran a lower (numerical) aspect-ratio tire, hence the overall diameter was negliable, less than 0.5%, so now the question would be: What size are the 500 ABARTH tires? Thanks for pointing this out . . . back to my research. O.K., I stand corrected - but not by much. THE Fiat 500 USA info lists the Abarth's tire/wheel sizes as 195/45 x 16" which equates to 22.91" O.D. or four-tenths percent. For those who want taller overall gearing a 17" wheel shod with 205/40 x 17" tyres is also offered, offering-up a 23.46" O.D.; hence the 901 revs. per mile (16" tire) versus the 877 revs. per mile (17" tire) - note these are TIRE r.p.m. not engine r.p.m. In all aspects of manufacturing a tolerance is allowed, including tire production, SO . . . figures will vary somewhat, keeps things interesting. Again, thanks for the "heads-up" on the different wheel sizes; in this range a 1/4" in diameter equals roughly one percent. Only numbing numbers - - - H.T.W.T.

All good points to consider...thanks!

Have Trumpet Will Travel
02-27-2012, 11:38 PM
[QUOTE=nyc eng;549715]Speed at a corresponding rpm for the Abarth with 16" wheels & 500 Sport with 16" wheels..

Please note the first two rows for each vehicle indicate the approximate RPM at 56mph and 61mph.


[IMG} Just when I thought that I was the only guy who figured rpm / mph charts with EACH vehicle - Knew there were other "gearheads" out there, this proves it. Whenever I get any type of vehicle: from a 200 c.c. Enduro, the new FIAT 500 (manual), even the 2003 Mini 6-speed manual, the first thing I do is measure tire circumference, then go "to work" calculating. It distracted me in grade school AND occupies my free time to this day - could go on & on. NYC eng's charts look good, we appreciate this type of input and needed information. H.T.W.T.

Have Trumpet Will Travel
02-28-2012, 03:23 AM
O.K., my order has been placed for tires of a slightly lesser diameter (by 2%). Know that isn't much, however; the base FIAT 500 is geared sort of tall, like most everything offered today, so I'll be seeing how these affect performance. One thing is for sure, usually I gear UP, which would make the speedo./odometer more accurate, now I'll have the "standard" 3% error plus another 2%. Oh well, the 1500 Cabriolet (1965 FIAT) I learned to drive in was the same way, so it will bring back fond memories I suppose.

nyc eng
02-28-2012, 11:31 AM
16" vs 17" wheels.. The car definitely needs a 6 speed.

http://www.fiat500usaforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1356&d=1330442972

nyc eng
02-28-2012, 11:34 AM
I read on here the 16" wheels are also lighter.. :dejection:

luke_vibert_uk
02-28-2012, 12:28 PM
UK specs...with images to help with descriptions.

- 16" standard wheel 8.4 kg
http://www.freeimagehosting.net/t/55hg8.jpg

- 17" 5 spoke (inc 'Petals') wheel 9.2 kg
http://www.freeimagehosting.net/t/js1ki.jpg

- 17" 10 spoke wheel 11.9 kg
http://www.freeimagehosting.net/t/uvb7q.jpg

- 17" esseesse wheel 10.0 kg
http://www.freeimagehosting.net/t/blpt4.jpg

grapefish
02-28-2012, 03:50 PM
The US 17" wheel is forged and 17.8 lbs., while the 16" is cast and 17.3 lbs.

A much stronger wheel and only half a pound heavier means I'll be getting the 17's. =)

Fix it again Tony
02-28-2012, 08:45 PM
The US 17" wheel is forged and 17.8 lbs., while the 16" is cast and 17.3 lbs.

A much stronger wheel and only half a pound heavier means I'll be getting the 17's. =)

I test drove on 15s, 16s and 17s, and the 16s simply felt the best to me. The 17s looked nicest, but came with a rougher ride and more road noise.

FiaTED
03-02-2012, 03:19 PM
So with a lower final drive ratio, the Abarth should get better highway mileage... right?

if the engine was the same then yes, but the turbo should get lower mpg than a non turbo

SeaDawg
03-02-2012, 03:36 PM
if the engine was the same then yes, but the turbo should get lower mpg than a non turbo

It's probably my age, but I thought, when talking about automotive differentials, a 4.11 rearend was considered 'lower' than a 3.73 rearend and vice versa?

grapefish
03-02-2012, 04:09 PM
When you depress your clutch pedal in the US, you're engaging it. But in the UK, you're disengaging it! =)

I've always considered the higher numbers to be "taller" gears, but I'll admit the final drive has always been a bit of a puzzle.

Have Trumpet Will Travel
03-05-2012, 01:38 AM
It's probably my age, but I thought, when talking about automotive differentials, a 4.11 rearend was considered 'lower' than a 3.73 rearend and vice versa? You are correct. "Lower" means less m.p.h. per a given engine r.p.m., while "higher" would mean more m.p.h. per engine r.p.m. In a pure mathematical sense the value: 4.11 is indeed higher than 3.73

scorpio
03-05-2012, 02:33 AM
I test drove on 15s, 16s and 17s, and the 16s simply felt the best to me. The 17s looked nicest, but came with a rougher ride and more road noise.

Same. Maybe I'm getting old but I will choose everyday ride comfort over minor exterior aesthetics any day. I really don't understand the current obsession with bigger and bigger wheels at all.

luke_vibert_uk
03-05-2012, 03:32 AM
Same. Maybe I'm getting old but I will choose everyday ride comfort over minor exterior aesthetics any day. I really don't understand the current obsession with bigger and bigger wheels at all.

So on that quote then you would buy an Abarth because? The Abarth suspension is not set up for comfort, and the wheels are a function of providing performance and not comfort.

If you want a comfortable ride then you'd need one of the 500 models that has small dia but dumpy tyres and comfortable suspension e.g. a Pop?

Have Trumpet Will Travel
03-05-2012, 04:17 AM
Have owned my 2012 "Pop" for a little over four months and YES, it is very smooth-riding. That may change a little as I'm in the process of changing from P185/55 x 15" Firehawks to P195/50 x 15" Toyo "Extensa HP"s to tighten gearing by 2%. At any rate, I can't imagine the 500 ABARTH riding any rougher than the "other small car (s) " with run-flat tires and stiff sidewalls. The FIAT 500 "Pop" rides firm, yet "comfy". H.T.W.T.

luke_vibert_uk
03-05-2012, 05:41 AM
The Abarth here in Europe is a totally different ride to the Fiat 500s and I cant see it being any different for the NA market.

The Wheels are larger (17s"), the tyre profiles are smaller (40) , they are lowered and the Esseesse kit introduces different springs and shocks (you're getting the Koni FSDs?) and lowered even more than the standard Abarth 500. They corner flatter and body roll is much more minimised, ride is stiffer.

I think a careful use of terminology needs to be used, a rough ride does not automatically mean a bad ride. The Abarth is set up for Performance and thats the ride you'll get, not one thats going to soak up and wallow out all undulations and pot holes.

FiaTED
03-05-2012, 01:10 PM
Waste of money
IMHO

I spent $4k on upgraded rims on my range Rover and didnt get any extra when I sold it

scorpio
03-05-2012, 01:32 PM
So on that quote then you would buy an Abarth because? The Abarth suspension is not set up for comfort, and the wheels are a function of providing performance and not comfort.

If you want a comfortable ride then you'd need one of the 500 models that has small dia but dumpy tyres and comfortable suspension e.g. a Pop?

At the end of the day it's a balance. Pop and Abarth is a pretty dramatic difference, I'm talking specifically with the wheel size, you have a direct choice - relatively higher road noise and harsher ride for marginal performance gain and some marginal aesthetic improvement. In that case the choice is easy for me.

Fiat411
05-01-2012, 10:41 PM
Nope. The Abarth has a different gear set and transmission.