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500ways
01-26-2012, 10:45 PM
Can the use of the Sport button improve gas mileage? Theoretically, if you can "more quickly" get up to speed (even under conservative acceleration) versus taking a bit longer to get to that speed without the use of the Sport button, would your overall consumption go down?

Chris
01-26-2012, 10:59 PM
The opposite- on average it knocks about 3mpg off in my driving- same at cruising speed.

luckymoi
01-26-2012, 11:23 PM
Sport holds the gears longer for the automatic, my mileage drops.

Doodles
01-27-2012, 02:24 AM
Mine gets much better mileage in sport mode because the engine isn't racing to get moving,you never have to floor the pedal.

Chris
01-27-2012, 07:25 AM
Sorry but I'd have to have that proved to me. Cruising at 70, I hit the Sport button, don't move the ga pedal, and the MPG immediately drops when watching "Instant".

After months of trying tanks with Sport on, Sport off, Sport On always returns lower mileage.

CAVEAT: I drive an automatic.

Mini Cord
01-27-2012, 07:39 AM
Well, considering this car has no throttle body, and that in a Manual, the sport button only improves the transient response of the the intake valves and the speed at which they addapt, and probably give them a more aggressive profile, if you're cruising with cruise control, in theory the fuel consumption should be identical providing is a very smooth and level surface with almost no wind.

But, unless you're very gentle with the accelerator pedal, in sport mode the fuel consumption should go up, specially on city driving.

Driving my Manual in sport mode, I will burn more gas.

tensleep
01-27-2012, 10:02 AM
My Pop is a manual. My understanding of the Sport button is that it has no effect on the motor or the profile for valve timing, injection response, etc. What it does affect are the gas pedal and the steering response. The gas pedal becomes more sensitive at the top of the range. Manipulating the gas pedal has the same effect on performance with the sport button off and depressing the pedal further as with the sport button on and depressing the pedal less. In my experience, my driving habits, as others have alluded, will determine ultimate fuel economy. Steering on our cars is accomplished by an electric motor, not a hydraulic system. The sport button changes the response of the electric motor, causing the steering to "stiffen", giving the car a "sportier" feel to the handling.

I think that 500Madness sells some products that will actually change the mapping in the ECU.

I read somewhere in the forums a thread discussing EcoDrive. While I have not downloaded the program or played around with recording the data on my Fiat thumbdrive, I did pick up a tip that EcoDrive strategy suggests shifting at a lower RPM level than I am used too. For instance, it feels right to me to shift somewhere between 3.5k and 4k. When I am not in traffic, I am practicing shifting at lower RPMs - 1 to 2 I still shift with the RPM over 3k. All other shifts, I try to make between 2-2.5k. After depressing the clutch and shifting to neutral, I am also letting the engine speed slow down more and am realizing some "gentler" shifts when either upshifting or downshifting. This isn't as much fun, but I sure notice an improvement in fuel economy! When in heavy traffic, on hills or even a fun twisty road, I will still drive BeBč a bit more aggressively - He is just too much fun to be completely sedate!

mneuman916
01-27-2012, 09:37 PM
Sorry but I'd have to have that proved to me. Cruising at 70, I hit the Sport button, don't move the ga pedal, and the MPG immediately drops when watching "Instant".

After months of trying tanks with Sport on, Sport off, Sport On always returns lower mileage.

CAVEAT: I drive an automatic.

The difference must be the auto. I notice no such thing in my manual. That aside - because of my personal driving style... I've found over several tanks that NOT using Sport actually resulted in LESS MPG. I attribute this to having to mash the accelerator to get the car moving in ECO. To each his own, but I've no reason to bother with it. I hate the steering with non sport and I find the pedal feel mushy and unresponsive.

Chris
01-27-2012, 11:24 PM
Coming home on the freeway tonight I was cruising at a steady speed and averaging about 46mpg at the time (instant) with Sport on. I popped it off and mpg reading instantly went up to 50, On and right back down. Net exactly scientific I realize.

Fiat500USA
01-28-2012, 01:00 AM
... I read somewhere in the forums a thread discussing EcoDrive. While I have not downloaded the program or played around with recording the data on my Fiat thumbdrive, I did pick up a tip that EcoDrive strategy suggests shifting at a lower RPM level than I am used too. For instance, it feels right to me to shift somewhere between 3.5k and 4k. When I am not in traffic, I am practicing shifting at lower RPMs - 1 to 2 I still shift with the RPM over 3k. All other shifts, I try to make between 2-2.5k. After depressing the clutch and shifting to neutral, I am also letting the engine speed slow down more and am realizing some "gentler" shifts when either upshifting or downshifting. This isn't as much fun, but I sure notice an improvement in fuel economy! When in heavy traffic, on hills or even a fun twisty road, I will still drive BeBč a bit more aggressively - He is just too much fun to be completely sedate!

If you shift the car under 2,000 rpm (it takes some getting used to) the car will get outrageous gas mileage. Obviously , you can't do that going up hills, but you can get pretty close - maybe 2,400 rpms or so. That's basically what eco-drive says. 1st - 2nd shift at 2,100 then all the rest less than 2,000 rpm. The closer you get to that, the better the mileage.

epb
01-28-2012, 08:27 PM
If you shift the car under 2,000 rpm (it takes some getting used to) the car will get outrageous gas mileage. Obviously , you can't do that going up hills, but you can get pretty close - maybe 2,400 rpms or so. That's basically what eco-drive says. 1st - 2nd shift at 2,100 then all the rest less than 2,000 rpm. The closer you get to that, the better the mileage.

If I drove like that in Chicago, I'd have a taxi cab in the back seat within a day. :)

tensleep
01-29-2012, 06:59 PM
If I drove like that in Chicago, I'd have a taxi cab in the back seat within a day. :)
True! I am very selective when I use this technique.

talindsay
01-29-2012, 08:39 PM
If you shift the car under 2,000 rpm (it takes some getting used to) the car will get outrageous gas mileage. Obviously , you can't do that going up hills, but you can get pretty close - maybe 2,400 rpms or so. That's basically what eco-drive says. 1st - 2nd shift at 2,100 then all the rest less than 2,000 rpm. The closer you get to that, the better the mileage.

Okay, so you'll get better gas mileage, but how much damage will you do by lugging the engine like that? I mean, if the engine wears out 50,000 miles earlier then you've probably lost any savings from lugging it. Now, with full-synth oil and premium gas you'd probably keep knock and wear down to an acceptable limit, but I'd still be worried about lugging a tiny iron-block engine. It sounds like a real recipe for trouble in hot climates, city driving, with 87-octane gas and crappy American dino oil.

PFVA63
01-29-2012, 10:30 PM
Okay, so you'll get better gas mileage, but how much damage will you do by lugging the engine like that? I mean, if the engine wears out 50,000 miles earlier then you've probably lost any savings from lugging it. Now, with full-synth oil and premium gas you'd probably keep knock and wear down to an acceptable limit, but I'd still be worried about lugging a tiny iron-block engine. It sounds like a real recipe for trouble in hot climates, city driving, with 87-octane gas and crappy American dino oil.

Hi,

I tend try drive more or less as recommended in the User's manual for "Good Efficiency" which comes out pretty much what Fiat500USA suggested, and the car seems to run very well this way. Since its recommended in the Manual I'd guess that it should be fine when driven this way.

Pat

talindsay
01-30-2012, 12:29 AM
Hi,

I tend try drive more or less as recommended in the User's manual for "Good Efficiency" which comes out pretty much what Fiat500USA suggested, and the car seems to run very well this way. Since its recommended in the Manual I'd guess that it should be fine when driven this way.

Pat
Hmm, perhaps the gears are closer than they feel to me, but if you shift from first to second when you hit 2100 in first wouldn't that work out to be about 1200 in second at the shift? That feels really low to me - I typically shift up around 3500, which puts me a little shy of 2k in second, IIRC. But then everything I drive / ride is set up for high-RPM running and the FIAT feels like them - happiest in the revs - to me. I like little engines to be wound up a bit; I haven't looked in the manual but it must not be in danger of lugging at those RPMs if the manual recommends them.

SeaDawg
01-30-2012, 01:34 AM
Hmm, perhaps the gears are closer than they feel to me, but if you shift from first to second when you hit 2100 in first wouldn't that work out to be about 1200 in second at the shift? That feels really low to me - I typically shift up around 3500, which puts me a little shy of 2k in second, IIRC. But then everything I drive / ride is set up for high-RPM running and the FIAT feels like them - happiest in the revs - to me. I like little engines to be wound up a bit; I haven't looked in the manual but it must not be in danger of lugging at those RPMs if the manual recommends them.

It is NOT in danger of lugging at those relatively low rpm's. The reason is the Multi-air system which boosts low end torque and allows the engine to pull (although I wouldn't recommend agressive acceleration using the low shift points) from around 1300 rpm under normal flat road conditions. Since I tend to try and drive when the stoplight grand prix drivers have either left the roadway or are going in the opposite direction, my driving tends to favor the low shift points. I get in the high 30's for boulevard/in town driving gas mileage.

I don't drive like an elderly citizen ALL the time, but do try to economize where possible without endangering myself or others.

Have Trumpet Will Travel
01-30-2012, 02:34 AM
I've found that by just using the gears (5-manual) and shifting around 3,000 r.p.m., nets me 43 m.p.g. Have gotten mid-40's, but I feel like I'm doing the engine an injustice operating it like that, plus you can get in people's way trying to hit the big gas-mileage number. (Once saw 47.2 m.p.g., but felt like I was driving too slowly).It is still a shame the EPA (window) figure is 38 m.p.g., because you can have alot of fun with the FIAT and still exceed 40 m.p.g. Just my experience so far - HTWT.

talindsay
01-30-2012, 10:49 AM
This morning I was watching my shift points to see, and I tend to shift just south of 4k in first and second, and just north of 3k in third.

Fiat500USA
01-30-2012, 12:22 PM
It does take some getting used to, but the car is surprisingly flexible. I think the whole point is to show you can get the car into a higher gear than you would normally think. Obviously in the right traffic conditions.

It makes you aware of how your driving techniques can effect fuel consumption and makes driving slow a little more interesting.

eatworksleepdie
01-30-2012, 12:41 PM
My next tank of gas I'm going to stick to the recommended shifting points to see what kind of gas mileage I get. Right now, I'm averaging about 31mpg (anywhere between 29.8-32). So, not as good as I had originally hoped, but I also tend to drive the snot out of my cars, and it's winter-time so fuel has added preservatives in it reducing fuel economy. Still though, I should be getting better than 31mpg's!

geeded
01-30-2012, 05:48 PM
It does take some getting used to, but the car is surprisingly flexible. I think the whole point is to show you can get the car into a higher gear than you would normally think. Obviously in the right traffic conditions.

It makes you aware of how your driving techniques can effect fuel consumption and makes driving slow a little more interesting.

Sorry Chris, to me, driving like that is boring and not the reason I'm buying the FIAT. I'm buying it because I can drive it, have fun, have some giggles, and still get reasonable gas mileage...to me that means anything between 23 - 30. A little higher or lower and I'm good. If I wanted to hyper-mile, I'd buy a Prius. I'm going to drive it con brio and enjoy myself! :)

To each his own. YMMV and mine certainly will!

Cheers

SeaDawg
01-30-2012, 08:29 PM
To each his own. YMMV and mine certainly will!

Cheers

That's the whole point! This engine was designed with the flexibility to deliver outstanding mileage when driven easily (dare I say sanely...probably not:D) but has the potential to deliver loads of European fun when wound before shifting.

Zack Hurst
11-21-2012, 04:46 PM
Well, considering this car has no throttle body, and that in a Manual, the sport button only improves the transient response of the the intake valves and the speed at which they addapt, and probably give them a more aggressive profile, if you're cruising with cruise control, in theory the fuel consumption should be identical providing is a very smooth and level surface with almost no wind.

But, unless you're very gentle with the accelerator pedal, in sport mode the fuel consumption should go up, specially on city driving.

Driving my Manual in sport mode, I will burn more gas.

Wait... WHAT?? The car doesn't have a throttle body??

Mini Cord
11-21-2012, 09:09 PM
Nope,

The opening of the intake valves changes take care of how much air fuel gets inside the engine, thus controlling the engine speed. because you have no butterfly to produce a low pressure and turbulence, you gain pumping losses by not having one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BK3CLMr8qwg&feature=watch-vrec

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=w7ASlcp1p1Q

Zack Hurst
11-23-2012, 01:48 PM
Nope,

The opening of the intake valves changes take care of how much air fuel gets inside the engine, thus controlling the engine speed. because you have no butterfly to produce a low pressure and turbulence, you gain pumping losses by not having one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BK3CLMr8qwg&feature=watch-vrec

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=w7ASlcp1p1Q

I guess somebody needs to tell FIAT this, because they have throttle body for sale...
http://www.fiatpartswebstore.com/products/fiat/2013/500/throttle-body/8424388/04892945aa.html

Mini Cord
11-25-2012, 05:02 PM
My bad,

It does have one, but for what I have been able to find, the throttle body is usually 100% open, and is only used in startup and if the Multiair controller fails.

Zack Hurst
11-26-2012, 12:21 PM
My bad,

It does have one, but for what I have been able to find, the throttle body is usually 100% open, and is only used in startup and if the Multiair controller fails.

Ah, gotcha. I'm constantly learning new things about these cars and you threw a curveball at me! :)

madbyrd
12-08-2012, 06:21 PM
I have over 16000 mi on my 2012 automatic 500 Pop and would agree with most of this thread that mileage does go down in Sport mode. Most of the time in my daily commute of 40 miles each way I drive very conservatively and average 39 mpg, but on weekends I enjoy Sport mode and manual shifting. Ahh the best of both worlds!

William M Jacocks Jr
12-08-2012, 09:23 PM
I set my 2013 to blink the upshift in eco mode and my wife shifts and is very relaxed on acceleration.. I think we are getting 34 mpg's or thereabouts. I would like to put a toggle switch to the sport button and hide the switch, keep it off so the kids when they get the urge it won't work. LOL

I really enjoy the sport button and usually use it in the late afternoon/early evening when I know folks won't mind the sound, and if they did they can't figure out where it came from. LOL 6 am is way to early to be doing hard rpm acceleration to 5-6k rpm.

Jimbo
01-26-2013, 03:17 AM
I use the sport button probably 95% of the time, just turning it off for expressway driving. I shift between 2 and 3 grand normally, and average 38 mpg mixed driving, rural and city. I'm very impressed with this miliage.. a little over 2 grand on the clock now and having a ball with it.. 2012 pop 5 sp.

msjulie33
01-26-2013, 12:47 PM
Reading this older thread, I've come to the conclusion is that sport mode impact on mpg is very dependent on the driver and then, more so if automatic.

Generally I drive conservatively due to traffic, it's mostly 30-50 mph roads with traffic lights (grrr) and my current average mpg with my 5 speed Pop convertible is 37.6. On occasion I will have some fun from a light but even with my gentle driving, since I actually pay attention to driving in the am vs whatever many other folks are doing, moving off from a stop light still results in other cars left behind. My point is that I don't have to accelerate fast just to not be in the way :)

I need sport mode 'cause otherwise the steering is just too numb for me...

Thad
01-28-2013, 09:44 AM
Agreed. Sport mode just lets you get deeper into the throttle quicker. So, if you hit it hard, you'll have worse mileage. I wrote a story regarding this in the last issue of the Ricambi Magazine. Club members receive that.

SilverSpurTX
03-02-2013, 10:00 PM
Mine seems to take a small hit in fuel economy when I activate it. However, when I use it I am on a tollway so I am usually going atleast 80mph.

500?
08-03-2013, 11:44 AM
I use Sport mode 95% of the time now. The only time I take it off is if stuck on the highway in bumper to bumper and creeping along in 1st/2nd. When I first started driving my 500T I used it most of the time but made the switch and didn't find it made any difference. My EVIC has me at 6.6 L/100km for 70/30 hwy/city.

panther76
08-05-2013, 07:25 AM
obviously, at a steady speed, sport mode wont make one iota of difference in mpg's or performance....at that point its just a matter of how you want the steering to feel.