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Fiat500USA
01-10-2012, 05:31 PM
I am rounding up some questions for the Abarth and Fiat engineers. If anyone has one, please post it here and I'll see if I can get an answer. I'll be submitting about 10 questions, so let me know. I know you guys have some good questions out there so it should be pretty interesting.

geeded
01-10-2012, 05:45 PM
Here's a couple I've been thinking about...

1. Is the shifter for the Abarth a "short-throw" version compared to the one in the regular 500 (and/or has any effort been made to make the shifter more direct)? If not, is a short-throw version coming from Mopar? Also, what is the torque limit on the 5-speed?

2. In the Euro Abarth, the TTC has a separate switch while in the NA version there is an ESC/ESC partial/ESC off switch.

Question: When is the TTC activated in the NA car? Is it only when ESC OFF or in partial off mode (and what exactly IS partial ESC?)? After the WHEN is TTC activated is answered, does the TTC in the NA car replace the Traction-control when TTC is activated as in the Euro Abarth? If not, which has precedence?

Thanks!

blefevre
01-10-2012, 05:50 PM
I am rounding up some questions for the Abarth and Fiat engineers. If anyone has one, please post it here and I'll see if I can get an answer. I'll be submitting about 10 questions, so let me know. I know you guys have some good questions out there so it should be pretty interesting.

Q: Internal changes to the engine besides the compression ratio? Are the pistons forged? Changes to the camshaft at all? etc.

Q: Are the brake calipers/pad size larger then stock? Or is it just the rotor size?

Q: Does the turbo compensate for high altitude driving so power remains the same as sea level? - This was mentioned in that article by the guy that seemed to answer things incorrectly.

Fiat500USA
01-10-2012, 06:44 PM
Q: Does the turbo compensate for high altitude driving so power remains the same as sea level? - This was mentioned in that article by the guy that seemed to answer things incorrectly.

I asked that specific question to the head guy and he said the engine compensates for high altitude, so power remains the same Pretty cool!

Great questions. Keep them coming!

blefevre
01-10-2012, 06:47 PM
I asked that specific question to the head guy and he said the engine compensates for high altitude, so power remains the same Pretty cool!

Great questions. Keep them coming!

Great! Thanks for the info.

Itgb
01-10-2012, 06:50 PM
What was the reasoning behind only using the Koni FSD struts in the front and not the rear? Purely cost reasons?

spindoc
01-10-2012, 06:54 PM
Here are a few more:

1) Why is the Abarth's turning diameter so much greater than the Fiat 500's?

2) Why does the US car get Koni FSD's just in front, when the Euro Abarth 500 Koni kit includes them front and rear? [Edit: Oops - Itgb beat me to it!]

3) Is the ride height different from the Euro Abarth 500, the Esseesse, or the Esseesse with the Koni kit? If so, how much, and why?

Thanks!

VTEC Mini
01-10-2012, 07:20 PM
Q: Internal changes to the engine besides the compression ratio? Are the pistons forged? Changes to the camshaft at all? etc.

Q: Are the brake calipers/pad size larger then stock? Or is it just the rotor size?

Q: Does the turbo compensate for high altitude driving so power remains the same as sea level? - This was mentioned in that article by the guy that seemed to answer things incorrectly.

I got the latest and greatest Motor Trend "Fiat 500 issue" last night. On page 12 it talks about the differences of the Euro and U.S. Abarth. It is more than just the turbo and management.

Vincent adapted the MultiAir, launched in Europe in 2009, pretty much as is, with changes necessary for our specific regulations and demands, The Dundee version of the iron block four comes in a few pounds lighter than it's Euro cousin, and about 80 percent of the componets come from new suppliers.

"We have different oils," Vincent says, with Europe using only high- grade synthetic in new cars. "In the U.S., where customers can buy any grade of oil they want, the engine had to be developed with our specific 5W30. and in the case of the Abarth Turbo, our 5W40 non- synthetic. We had to make changes to the piston rings, piston crown; some of the bearings had to to change."

Vincent also converted the MultiAir to a returnless fuel system, as used in Chrysler's since the '90s to meet U.S. regulations include an oil- mist separator and specific positive crankcase vent system. There adjustments to the cylinder head, exhaust manifold, and turbocharger for durability. U.S. duty cycles tend to have a lot more mid- range. Half Shafts are beefed up as well. About 30 diagnostics have been added or upgraded to the Magnti Marello engine control system to meet OBDII.

What was Vincents biggest headache?

" There is is a labyrinth of water and oil tubes that are used to feed the water to the engine and the turbocharger from the radiator," he says, "and likewise oil from the oil filter, to the turbo through the block to the oil pump. Something as simple as that sounds...... it's just tubes right? But it's the way they're constructed, you've got a main pipe with a set of tubes to line up in a high- speed automated assembly line. It's extremely challenging."

Todd Lassa, Motor Trend Magazine, February 2012

Fiat500USA
01-10-2012, 07:22 PM
What was the reasoning behind only using the Koni FSD struts in the front and not the rear? Purely cost reasons?




2) Why does the US car get Koni FSD's just in front, when the Euro Abarth 500 Koni kit includes them front and rear? [Edit: Oops - Itgb beat me to it!]



Thanks!

There was another thread (http://www.fiat500usaforum.com/showthread.php?4245-Latest-ABARTH-USA-Questions/page8&highlight=koni) where this same basic question asked. Here is the answer, directly from the lead development engineer.

The new 2012 Fiat 500 Abarth is lightweight and has a 64/36 front-to-rear weight distribution making the benefits of FSD minimal. In addition, adding FSD shocks in the rear would have required a rebound travel restriction, and therefore actually reduced ride quality.

VTEC Mini
01-10-2012, 07:25 PM
Q; How is the transmission more beefed up than the standard five speed such as in the Sport or Pop?
Q; Turbo lag?
Q; Is there a "cool down" period for the turbo to prevent coking of the oil?
Q; Can you run synthetic- plus or minuses.
Q; Estimated end of life for turbo.

FiatGusto
01-10-2012, 08:33 PM
Not sure where to post this; but is the Abarth at the Detroit show????
I cannot access the NAIAS web site.
Thanks

Fiat500USA
01-10-2012, 08:33 PM
Q; How is the transmission more beefed up than the standard five speed such as in the Sport or Pop?


The transmission in the Abarth is the heavy duty C510 gearbox from FPT. The regular 500 uses the C514 gearbox.

You can read more about these transmissions here (http://www.fiat500usa.com/2009/09/fiat-500-transmissions-5-or-6-speed.html).

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/--6ct6s1JRsU/TwzXUaQXOCI/AAAAAAAAKwE/0J3XDTjHZ40/s800/cambio-c510-011-292x366.jpg
Fiat c510 transmission with automated control unit installed

ggravant
01-10-2012, 09:23 PM
1. Not that it matters if you are buying an Abarth, but anyone hear what the fuel economy ratings are?
2. Any reason they did not develop a 6 speed manual (I am super happy they have ANY manual available, just curious ...)
3. Pedals in a good position for heel-toe shifting?

geeded
01-10-2012, 11:54 PM
The transmission in the Abarth is the heavy duty C510 gearbox from FPT. The regular 500 uses the C514 gearbox.

This begs a question Chris. The NA Abarth engine has max 230Nm and the C510 shows 206Nm max input torque. Is the C510 being built for us in Italy stronger? I've never heard of a transmission, stock from the factory, with the input torque already exceeded.

Cheers

rtwolfe
01-11-2012, 12:44 AM
Top Gear's review of the Abarth said the ride is 'quite bouncy'. Was the USA suspension modified to be less bouncy?

Fiat500USA
01-11-2012, 12:58 AM
This begs a question Chris. The NA Abarth engine has max 230Nm and the C510 shows 206Nm max input torque. Is the C510 being built for us in Italy stronger? I've never heard of a transmission, stock from the factory, with the input torque already exceeded.

Cheers

These specs have always been a curiosity (I got them from FPT back in 2009), as even the Euro cars engine specs exceed them. I believe the rating corresponds to some different measurement or test procedure. Another good question...

VTEC Mini
01-11-2012, 09:42 AM
The transmission in the Abarth is the heavy duty C510 gearbox from FPT. The regular 500 uses the C514 gearbox.

You can read more about these transmissions here (http://www.fiat500usa.com/2009/09/fiat-500-transmissions-5-or-6-speed.html).

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/--6ct6s1JRsU/TwzXUaQXOCI/AAAAAAAAKwE/0J3XDTjHZ40/s800/cambio-c510-011-292x366.jpg
Fiat c510 transmission with automated control unit installedThanks!

VTEC Mini
01-11-2012, 09:45 AM
2. Any reason they did not develop a 6 speed manual (I am super happy they have ANY manual available, just curious ...)

The only reason this stood out in my mind was because I found it kind of odd. According to Scorpion Magazine who did an interview with one of the higher up's is because of crash ratings.

VTEC Mini
01-11-2012, 09:46 AM
Q; Timing belt or timing chain and end of life for it.

Thad
01-11-2012, 09:51 AM
-Has the seat height positioned been lowered, especially for the passenger?
-Are the interior plastics, especially the door panels, made of a more scratch resistant plastic?
-How will the tires/wheels handle pot holes in the North East in winter?
-Can a spare tire be fit with the dual exhaust system?
-Is there less ground clearance? IE:Can I get in my driveway with out scraping the front? I sometimes do that now.
-Is the seat back adjustable with a round knob like the Euro Abarth and older FIATs?

-When will there be a press ride and drive that I can participate in? How about doing one for the club?


-----then for fun..Will the clock keep time? Will the body side cladding come apart?

Thad
01-11-2012, 10:48 AM
The only reason this stood out in my mind was because I found it kind of odd. According to Scorpion Magazine who did an interview with one of the higher up's is because of crash ratings. The USA car has an extra frame rail that doesn't allow the case of the 6 speed to fit.

VTEC Mini
01-11-2012, 11:02 AM
The USA car has an extra frame rail that doesn't allow the case of the 6 speed to fit.That would explain the need for a higher crash rating answer.

Bladecutter
01-11-2012, 04:33 PM
Here's a question:

Why did they choose turbocharging instead of either supercharging, or twin charging (super and turbo - like some VW's have in Europe)?

BC.

Itgb
01-11-2012, 05:17 PM
Q; Timing belt or timing chain and end of life for it.

I think it's listed as belt-driven in the specs.

fredfrey
01-11-2012, 06:34 PM
Here's a question:

Why did they choose turbocharging instead of either supercharging, or twin charging (super and turbo - like some VW's have in Europe)?

BC.

1)Turbo is more efficient as supercharging steals power from the crankshaft, turbo uses exhaust pressure.
2) I think there is very little room in the engine compartment so twin turbos would be a problem.

VTEC Mini
01-11-2012, 07:45 PM
I think it's listed as belt-driven in the specs.Thanks!

Fiat500USA
01-12-2012, 01:08 AM
-Has the seat height positioned been lowered, especially for the passenger?
-Are the interior plastics, especially the door panels, made of a more scratch resistant plastic?
-How will the tires/wheels handle pot holes in the North East in winter?
-Can a spare tire be fit with the dual exhaust system?
-Is there less ground clearance? IE:Can I get in my driveway with out scraping the front? I sometimes do that now.
-Is the seat back adjustable with a round knob like the Euro Abarth and older FIATs?

-When will there be a press ride and drive that I can participate in? How about doing one for the club?


-----then for fun..Will the clock keep time? Will the body side cladding come apart?

-How will the tires/wheels handle pot holes in the North East in winter?

The 17 inch wheels are forged alloys. Pretty tough, but driving in the northeast with all the craters is like driving on the moon. Also, I doubt the tires would be good in the snow, I'd get a set of steel wheels (if possible) or drive something else.

-Can a spare tire be fit with the dual exhaust system?

No, the muffler takes up all the room down there.

-Is the seat back adjustable with a round knob like the Euro Abarth and older FIATs?

The pre-production cars used the lever to adjust the seat-back.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-fV5433OlF8Y/TtL-vw9qt_I/AAAAAAAAKY4/wYbw8ATgufU/s640/Fiat500USA.com-US_Fiat_500_Abarth_Launch%252520213.JPG

ggravant
01-12-2012, 01:20 AM
1)Turbo is more efficient as supercharging steals power from the crankshaft, turbo uses exhaust pressure.
2) I think there is very little room in the engine compartment so twin turbos would be a problem.I wonder is a setup like the STS system that has turbos at the rear of the car could be made to work eventually?

http://ststurbo.com/home

VTEC Mini
01-12-2012, 01:26 AM
This is question can be probably answered by a fellow member. I didn't pay attention to this at the L.A. Auto show because I never thought of it to pay attention until I heard something, somewhere after it. The question is; With the red leather interior is the rear seat leather too? I thought I heard somewhere they weren't- which is kind of goofy to me.

Fiat500USA
01-12-2012, 01:38 AM
This is question can be probably answered by a fellow member. I didn't pay attention to this at the L.A. Auto show because I never thought of it to pay attention until I heard something, somewhere after it. The question is; With the red leather interior is the rear seat leather too? I thought I heard somewhere they weren't- which is kind of goofy to me.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-sUM8q-AzkwM/Tw5v5Qe_tAI/AAAAAAAAKxE/uajx151zjC0/s640/Fiat500USA.com-US_Fiat_500_Abarth_Launch%252520165.JPG

Don't know for sure. In Europe, I believe only the front seating surface is leather.

geeded
01-12-2012, 01:09 PM
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-sUM8q-AzkwM/Tw5v5Qe_tAI/AAAAAAAAKxE/uajx151zjC0/s640/Fiat500USA.com-US_Fiat_500_Abarth_Launch%252520165.JPG

Don't know for sure. In Europe, I believe only the front seating surface is leather.

Chris, is there any way you can check on this? We will be ordering very, very soon and it is a question that begs to be answered. I think I read somewhere that the Euro Red seats had black (didn't say whether of not it was leather) in the back and I thought, "Damn, they'd never do that here." It would be essential to know before ponying up an unknown amount of money for it. I don't think any picture of the rear Abarth has been published (along with a picture of the NA Abarth posted with its unique 16" wheels).

Itgb
01-12-2012, 01:40 PM
Chris, is there any way you can check on this? We will be ordering very, very soon and it is a question that begs to be answered. I think I read somewhere that the Euro Red seats had black (didn't say whether of not it was leather) in the back and I thought, "Damn, they'd never do that here." It would be essential to know before ponying up an unknown amount of money for it. I don't think any picture of the rear Abarth has been published (along with a picture of the NA Abarth posted with its unique 16" wheels).

This is not a US model, but you can see that the rear seats are black even though the fronts are red. I also saw the cars at the LA auto show and they were the same.
931

geeded
01-12-2012, 01:50 PM
This is not a US model, but you can see that the rear seats are black even though the fronts are red. I also saw the cars at the LA auto show and they were the same.
931

Thanks very much. I might have to change my choice to black leather. Were the rear seats leather, plether, or what? Could you tell?

Cheers

Fiat500USA
01-12-2012, 02:24 PM
I'll be wrapping up my questions probably by the end of today, so please post them ASAP so I can get them together. I'll have to pick the ones that cover the broadest range of interest, but will try to get as many answers as possible.

Thanks!

VTEC Mini
01-12-2012, 04:15 PM
Thanks very much. I might have to change my choice to black leather. Were the rear seats leather, plether, or what? Could you tell?

CheersI think I would have to go with the cloth seats because that is just to goofy for me. Plus leather where I live will remove your hide in the summer.

Fiat500USA
01-21-2012, 03:37 AM
Chris, is there any way you can check on this? We will be ordering very, very soon and it is a question that begs to be answered. I think I read somewhere that the Euro Red seats had black (didn't say whether of not it was leather) in the back and I thought, "Damn, they'd never do that here." It would be essential to know before ponying up an unknown amount of money for it. I don't think any picture of the rear Abarth has been published (along with a picture of the NA Abarth posted with its unique 16" wheels).

I'm coordinating this and I'll probably fly out to talk to them. However, I asked about the seats and preliminary info seems that this is a common practice in cars now. Now a days, leather seats aren't what most of us were probably used to. Back seats and bolsters, etc. are part leather or not leather. I was given some examples (Audi) but the lousy phone (!) made it difficult to make out.

I was in a European 500 and I was pretty sure the back seats were leather, but that wasn't an Abarth.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-fu3T_oDmb4A/Txpp6qTDczI/AAAAAAAAKy0/n285N__7sG4/s640/Fiat%252520Freak%252520Out%2525202010%252520596.jp g

Note on the side of the seats the unfinished Suede.

Fuzz 40
01-26-2012, 11:27 AM
Has anyone figured out what the actual transmission specs are? From reading the information that is out there, it seems like the transmission can't handle the torque output from the engine.

Fiat500USA
01-26-2012, 11:58 AM
Has anyone figured out what the actual transmission specs are? From reading the information that is out there, it seems like the transmission can't handle the torque output from the engine.

This probably falls under the category of "a little information is a dangerous thing." Those were figures from the FPT site, but there is no real explanation of what they mean. Most of the cars listed have rated torque exceeding these specs, so there is something missing from the equation. I'm looking into it.

Fuzz 40
01-26-2012, 12:53 PM
I'm looking into it.
Awesome! Hopefully you can turn up some real information. It would be disappointing if straight from the factory you are already severely limited in what modifications you could do due to a weak transmission.

Fiat500USA
01-26-2012, 01:03 PM
Awesome! Hopefully you can turn up some real information. It would be disappointing if straight from the factory you are already severely limited in what modifications you could do due to a weak transmission.

True. The thing is these cars are beat pretty hard in Europe :) and there are also all the mega HP versions, so something doesn't add up.

spindoc
01-26-2012, 01:52 PM
Chris, here's a crucial question for those of us interested in autocrossing the Abarth: what is the car's Static Stability Factor (SSF)? The SSF is a way of assessing the vehicle's risk of rolling over. If the SSF is less than 1.30, the SCCA won't allow it in (see the SCCA National Solo Rules section 3.1).

Also, if a car's height is greater than its track width, the SCCA will not class it for Solo (autocross competition) - this is why the 500 never actually got classed last year. With the Abarth still being taller than it is wide, it looks like it too could be prohibited from competing.

I wonder if this issue has warranted any consideration from anyone at Fiat. It'll be a shame if a car with such sporting pretensions winds up not being able to compete.

Fiat500USA
01-26-2012, 02:12 PM
Chris, here's a crucial question for those of us interested in autocrossing the Abarth: what is the car's Static Stability Factor (SSF)? The SSF is a way of assessing the vehicle's risk of rolling over. If the SSF is less than 1.30, the SCCA won't allow it in (see the SCCA National Solo Rules section 3.1).

Also, if a car's height is greater than its track width, the SCCA will not class it for Solo (autocross competition) - this is why the 500 never actually got classed last year. With the Abarth still being taller than it is wide, it looks like it too could be prohibited from competing.

I wonder if this issue has warranted any consideration from anyone at Fiat. It'll be a shame if a car with such sporting pretensions winds up not being able to compete.

I've been working with someone on this (just got off the phone before I read this!). Hopefully, we'll get an answer soon...

Fuzz 40
01-26-2012, 02:33 PM
True. The thing is these cars are beat pretty hard in Europe :) and there are also all the mega HP versions, so something doesn't add up.

They seem to keep kicking around numbers like 180-200 BHP and don't appear to have any transmission issues. Hopefully some clear information comes out soon. Also interested in the autocross information as well.

Thanks for you work on finding out this information.

luke_vibert_uk
01-26-2012, 02:38 PM
I've been working with someone on this (just got off the phone before I read this!). Hopefully, we'll get an answer soon...

Not Autocross but the same set of circumstances and the same result - one more spectacular than the other....

http://youtu.be/nqil28vrcnE

http://youtu.be/KJU2vhKHaTA

Set up for the track they are gonna be stiff...

Meanwhile it is being used for Rallying events in Europe...so might be worth comparing rules maybe?

Ooops
http://youtu.be/AKuM9sHfDkA

Nice sounds and another near roll...
http://youtu.be/cE6GcYF7U1Y

and Hillclimb - Prescott is an AMAZING place.
http://youtu.be/IcgrdWivTQ4

geeded
01-26-2012, 03:35 PM
Here's a couple more..... These do seem to be a little "top heavy" or the tires arr too sticky....

This one there is about 30 sec before it switches to the "new" 500's:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKWsY3GAvq4

This on is just scary...it sure scared the driver:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QnteWZnLXM8&feature=endscreen&NR=1

Cheers

VTEC Mini
01-26-2012, 04:24 PM
The one with the tire flying off was brutal and the "Nice Sounds" one sounds like it is Supercharged rather than turbo. Thanks for sharing!

blefevre
02-09-2012, 02:55 PM
Is there an update for this? Were you able to ask the questions to the engineers?

Thanks!

Fiat500USA
02-10-2012, 02:12 AM
Is there an update for this? Were you able to ask the questions to the engineers?

Thanks!

I thought I'd email, but will in stead fly out and do it face to face. Thanks for your patience.

blefevre
02-10-2012, 11:23 AM
I thought I'd email, but will in stead fly out and do it face to face. Thanks for your patience.

Sounds fun! Enjoy the trip.

the stig
02-17-2012, 01:07 PM
Chris, here's a crucial question for those of us interested in autocrossing the Abarth: what is the car's Static Stability Factor (SSF)? The SSF is a way of assessing the vehicle's risk of rolling over. If the SSF is less than 1.30, the SCCA won't allow it in (see the SCCA National Solo Rules section 3.1).

Also, if a car's height is greater than its track width, the SCCA will not class it for Solo (autocross competition) - this is why the 500 never actually got classed last year. With the Abarth still being taller than it is wide, it looks like it too could be prohibited from competing.

I wonder if this issue has warranted any consideration from anyone at Fiat. It'll be a shame if a car with such sporting pretensions winds up not being able to compete.

If you go to the forum page and click on the racing forum (the one below the abarth one) I believe your question will be at least partly answered. It appears that people have been racing the Fiat 500 in SCCA since last year. If not nationally at least regionally. Also I thought the 500 had already been cleared for B racing.

Mowse
02-28-2012, 07:00 PM
Hi! Just got here so sorry if this has been addressed somwhere. I have a deposit down for a completely loaded Abarth. VERY curious if a "Esseesse" type power upgrade is coming so this car can compete with the Mini JCW. I've owned 4 JCWs but bailed on the brand as I feel they ruined the car in 2007. I've read conflicting information on a power upgrade kit and don't know why Fiat can't be more forthcoming information wise. They would get a lot more deposit/sales if enthusiests knew what to expect. jeez, even if we know exhausts and CAI as well as suspension upgrades were available with a warranty friendly offer would help. Hey Fiat! You listening??

wachuko
02-28-2012, 08:29 PM
I might be looking at old specs, but the Essesse has 160hp, same as what we are getting in the USA... Am I missing something?


Hi! Just got here so sorry if this has been addressed somwhere. I have a deposit down for a completely loaded Abarth. VERY curious if a "Esseesse" type power upgrade is coming so this car can compete with the Mini JCW. I've owned 4 JCWs but bailed on the brand as I feel they ruined the car in 2007. I've read conflicting information on a power upgrade kit and don't know why Fiat can't be more forthcoming information wise. They would get a lot more deposit/sales if enthusiests knew what to expect. jeez, even if we know exhausts and CAI as well as suspension upgrades were available with a warranty friendly offer would help. Hey Fiat! You listening??

geeded
02-28-2012, 11:06 PM
VERY curious if a "Esseesse" type power upgrade is coming so this car can compete with the Mini JCW. I've owned 4 JCWs but bailed on the brand as I feel they ruined the car in 2007. I've read conflicting information on a power upgrade kit and don't know why Fiat can't be more forthcoming information wise. They would get a lot more deposit/sales if enthusiests knew what to expect. jeez, even if we know exhausts and CAI as well as suspension upgrades were available with a warranty friendly offer would help. Hey Fiat! You listening??

It's not the engine that is limiting available power, it's the transmission. The engine will easily make 200 hp but the added torque would fry the transmission unless you're very careful.

If there is a factory upgrade, it will probably be a dual-clutch auto unless they come up with a stronger manual. So, yes, there will be aftermarket kits available to bump the HP* but be careful....not too many jackrabbit starts!

* Since our engine is an americanized version of the Alfa Guiletta Multi-Air 170, this is a plug and play but remember about that transmission:

http://www.tmcmotorsport.com/CarProducts.aspx

enter:

Engine type: Petrol / Gasoline
Car make: Alfa Romeo
Model: Guiletta
Engine Specification: 1.4 TJet Multi-Air 170ps

Makes 204 hp. They make an American version. Drop them an email. You can plug it in and take it out. Just remember that transmission.

p.s. TMC is a very well respected company from what I've read.

Cheers

ggravant
02-29-2012, 12:02 AM
What??? You sayin' this won't fit???

http://www.tremec.com/performance/tr6060.html

damn

geeded
02-29-2012, 12:45 AM
What??? You sayin' this won't fit???

http://www.tremec.com/performance/tr6060.html

damn

If you throw enough money at the problem, you can make anything fit! :)*

*I'd sure like to see it fit though. That would be Epic. (also a few hundred thousand in engineering costs!)

captaindorko
03-04-2012, 06:03 AM
It's not the engine that is limiting available power, it's the transmission. The engine will easily make 200 hp but the added torque would fry the transmission unless you're very careful.


What exactly would fry? I'm just wondering because its going to be very difficult to keep my Abarth stock. Is it just the clutch? or is it a problem with the actual transmission? I know for instance that some Audis had trannys that the gearing would literally shear off, but this could be solved with cyro-treatments. Basically I want to know what is keeping me from 250 hp:devilish: I guess its just hard to make plans for a car that isn't out yet

Barn
03-04-2012, 03:33 PM
There will be a lot of Mopar and MagnetiMarelli upgrades.

At the Abarth presentation in Las Vegas they showed Abarth Venom - 200 HP, 2 inch lowered, carbon fiber,... they won't sell it but you can do it on your own.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Y0VGknNFKdc#t=262s

geeded
03-04-2012, 10:07 PM
What exactly would fry? I'm just wondering because its going to be very difficult to keep my Abarth stock. Is it just the clutch? or is it a problem with the actual transmission? I know for instance that some Audis had trannys that the gearing would literally shear off, but this could be solved with cyro-treatments. Basically I want to know what is keeping me from 250 hp:devilish: I guess its just hard to make plans for a car that isn't out yet

It's the max torque capability:

C510 (500 abarth, and similar)
Center Distance: 181 mm
Configuration: W-E, 2 axys
Max Input Torque: 206 Nm
Lenght: 380 - 395 mm
Mass: 36 Kg

206 NM = 151.937802751062 LB/FT torque

So, 152 lb/ft MAX input torque is ALREADY lower than the current max output torque of the Abarth i.e. 170 lb/ft. Probably one of the reasons than normal vice sport LOWERS the torque by 20.

Ergo, more HP = more torque = be careful bumping the HP in the Abarth ;)

cheers

Barn
03-05-2012, 08:37 AM
There will be no problem upgrading to 200 HP. At the Abarth presentation in Vegas they showed what you can do with various Mopar and MagnetiMarelli upgrades - 200 HP, 2 inch lowered, carbon fiber,...

Barn
03-05-2012, 08:37 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0VGknNFKdc&feature=player_detailpage#t=264s

wachuko
03-08-2012, 08:10 AM
Will the Brembo kit for Abarth fit with the stock 16" wheels?

Edit: found the answer... 17" wheels needed.

http://500madness.com/500madness/shop/index.php?route=product/product&path=42_68&product_id=738

sk8ace
03-08-2012, 02:24 PM
Yea, if they are advertising 200hp with no trans upgrades then I think those numbers for the trans are way low. Makes me feel much better now :-)

Fiat500USA
03-16-2012, 02:54 AM
Hi Folks, Finally, here are some answers to some of the most asked questions. I had to work out the logistics to be in the right place at the right time. Thanks for your patience.


Question: In the Euro Abarth, the TTC has a separate switch while in the NA version there is an ESC/ESC partial/ESC off switch. When is the TTC activated in the NA car? Is it only when ESC OFF or in partial off mode (and what exactly IS partial ESC?)? After the WHEN is TTC activated is answered, does the TTC in the NA car replace the Traction-control when TTC is activated as in the Euro Abarth? If not, which has precedence?

This is very sophisticated system. Dan Fry, lead Abarth development engineer comes from the ESP department and worked a lot of magic here with the car. I'll have more on this system on the Blog, but here is a (brief) overview

TTC is activated in "partial OFF" and "Off."
"partial Off" allows some more spirited driving but still intercedes when something goes wrong.

TTC is part of the traction control system. Through the use of all the sensors it can recognize if you are driving on a slippery surface or are doing performance driving.

Traction control limits engine power TTC doesn't. Traction Control is off in "partial off"

Q: Internal changes to the engine besides the compression ratio? Are the pistons forged? Changes to the camshaft at all? etc.

The pistons are a lightweight design with low tension piston rings for improved fuel economy. The pistons are made of a high strength silicon aluminium alloy and the piston skirt has a MolyŽ coating. The floating piston pins are held in position by piston mounted circlips. Pistons are cast, which is usual for street driven cars and have the ring lands hard anodized. The regular 500 uses press fit piston pins.

According to the specifications I have, the static camshaft timing is the same. Of course, MultiAir controls the intake operation a good part of the time and that is tailored to the 1.4 L Turbo engine. Valves also look the same size.


Q: Are the brake calipers/pad size larger then stock? Or is it just the rotor size?

Brakes are by Bosch and the rotor is 1 inch larger. Caliper pistons are the same size.

Q: Is the ride height different from the Euro Abarth 500, the Esseesse, or the Esseesse with the Koni kit? If so, how much, and why?

US car is 5mmm higher, and many other changes results in a car that rides better and according to someone who owns the European car, is a better car. More info given in the "Bouncy" question below.


Q: This begs a question Chris. The NA Abarth engine has max 230Nm and the C510 shows 206Nm max input torque. Is the C510 being built for us in Italy stronger? I've never heard of a transmission, stock from the factory, with the input torque already exceeded.

Here is my understanding on these transmission figures I posted way back. The figures are a guideline used when selling the transmission to third parties.

As is common in manufacturing a high performance car, the envelop is pushed to achieve higher levels of performance. However, these figures I published two years ago don't really tell the whole story. It is not a clear cut " apply 1 lbs-ft over this amount something is going to break." The figure is a calculated, and includes a test applying the full stated torque over 100,000 miles. With all the testing and abuse we've seen in Europe and in the US, I wouldn't worry about the transmission. You are not going to shear a crown gear by driving the car hard.

Remember, cars with the ATM trans are running 200 hp, the difference is the auto clutch operation uses controlled engagement and takes the shock out of the gearbox. Probably the biggest factor in all this is how YOU drive your modified car.

Abuse systems and everything is out the window.

Q:Top Gear's review of the Abarth said the ride is 'quite bouncy'. Was the USA suspension modified to be less bouncy?

The US car is not bouncy. The European car spends a good amount of time on its elastomer bump stops. This is possible in Europe, where the roads are generally better. It is not acceptable here in the US, with the roads we have to work with.


Q:Are the back seats leather in a car equipped with leather seating surfaces?

This was a tough question to get an answer. The Fiat exec I tormented with my driving actually put in a call and found that, yes, the back seats are leather.

Fiat500USA
03-17-2012, 12:43 AM
Q:I've read a couple of times that some guys who have track day'd their 500 with TTC 'on' have overheated their brakes (Pads and Lines/ Fluid) after a few vigorous laps.

I asked about this and they didn't have this experience. I was told the car was tested and met SRT8 brake standards. I find it hard to believe this would happen (at least in the US cars) after just a few vigorous laps. These cars were hammered during 24 hour endurance training at Nelson Ledges, no problem.

Maybe the cars this happened to had old brake fluid and/or aftermarket brake pads?

Fiat500USA
03-17-2012, 12:58 AM
It's the max torque capability:

C510 (500 abarth, and similar)
Center Distance: 181 mm
Configuration: W-E, 2 axys
Max Input Torque: 206 Nm
Lenght: 380 - 395 mm
Mass: 36 Kg

206 NM = 151.937802751062 LB/FT torque

So, 152 lb/ft MAX input torque is ALREADY lower than the current max output torque of the Abarth i.e. 170 lb/ft. Probably one of the reasons than normal vice sport LOWERS the torque by 20.

Ergo, more HP = more torque = be careful bumping the HP in the Abarth ;)

cheers

According to the engineers, the main reason is to meet fuel economy and emission expectations. However, you make a good point because the 150lbs-ft is for 1st and 2nd gear, according to the information i was given. Waiting for confirmation about the higher gear ranges.

TMC Motorsport
03-27-2012, 01:29 PM
It's the max torque capability:

C510 (500 abarth, and similar)
Center Distance: 181 mm
Configuration: W-E, 2 axys
Max Input Torque: 206 Nm
Lenght: 380 - 395 mm
Mass: 36 Kg

206 NM = 151.937802751062 LB/FT torque

So, 152 lb/ft MAX input torque is ALREADY lower than the current max output torque of the Abarth i.e. 170 lb/ft. Probably one of the reasons than normal vice sport LOWERS the torque by 20.

Ergo, more HP = more torque = be careful bumping the HP in the Abarth ;)

cheers

Hi guys, don't get too concerned about the gearbox, they will take ALOT more power than the official rating, there are people over here running 300 bhp and 400nm torque through them without any issues reported so so far after nearly 2 years. The weak point is the driveshafts, after 250 bhp you will need to put stronger ones in, the engines too are very very strong. Hope this helps.
Regards
Daron
TMC

nyc eng
03-27-2012, 02:12 PM
Do we have any information about the exhaust system?

On Jay Lenos garage Head of Fiat, Tim Kuniskis said the car has "a straight through exhaust, no exhaust muffler to speak of in the car"...

What upgrades were done to the cooling system?

Fiat500USA
03-27-2012, 07:00 PM
Do we have any information about the exhaust system?

On Jay Lenos garage Head of Fiat, Tim Kuniskis said the car has "a straight through exhaust, no exhaust muffler to speak of in the car"...

What upgrades were done to the cooling system?

There were 10 or 12 exhaust systems tried for the car to get the correct sound. The final system is basically no muffler. The rear section is straight pipe and no baffles, running through the housing.

Here is some trivia, when the car was introduced in November, the exhaust and under chassis items were not finalized yet. After talking to some of the folks there, I held off photographing under the car because I didn't want to confuse anyone with pictures of chassis components and brackets, etc., that may have been different on the production cars.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-UHKUhg9MxGQ/T3JDK6MzyMI/AAAAAAAALX0/FOMmqM826jw/s800/Fiat500USA.com-500_Abarth-Rear_Muffler.jpg

geeded
03-27-2012, 07:28 PM
There were 10 or 12 exhaust systems tried for the car to get the correct sound. The final system is basically no muffler. The rear section is straight pipe and no baffles, running through the housing.

Here is some trivia, when the car was introduced in November, the exhaust and under chassis items were not finalized yet. After talking to some of the folks there, I held off photographing under the car because I didn't want to confuse anyone with pictures of chassis components and brackets, etc., that may have been different on the production cars.

OK Chris, now I'm a trifle confused. So is the big Abarth "muffler" that we've seen (and is shown in outline in your diagram) not on the car? Or is it there but pretty much empty? Certainly you must have "peeked" under your car in Nevada :). So, inquiring minds want to know, what's it look like under the "butt"?

Cheers

ggravant
03-27-2012, 07:33 PM
There were 10 or 12 exhaust systems tried for the car to get the correct sound. The final system is basically no muffler. The rear section is straight pipe and no baffles, running through the housing.

Here is some trivia, when the car was introduced in November, the exhaust and under chassis items were not finalized yet. After talking to some of the folks there, I held off photographing under the car because I didn't want to confuse anyone with pictures of chassis components and brackets, etc., that may have been different on the production cars.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-UHKUhg9MxGQ/T3JDK6MzyMI/AAAAAAAALX0/FOMmqM826jw/s800/Fiat500USA.com-500_Abarth-Rear_Muffler.jpggeeded I agree and must say that ...

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb61/ggravant/misc_pics/post_worthless.gif

Fiat500USA
03-27-2012, 07:55 PM
geeded I agree and must say that ...

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb61/ggravant/misc_pics/post_worthless.gif

That info, plus that impossible to get image is worthless???

Fiat500USA
03-27-2012, 07:59 PM
OK Chris, now I'm a trifle confused. So is the big Abarth "muffler" that we've seen (and is shown in outline in your diagram) not on the car? Or is it there but pretty much empty? Certainly you must have "peeked" under your car in Nevada :). So, inquiring minds want to know, what's it look like under the "butt"?

Cheers


The rear section is straight pipe and no baffles, running through the housing.

Here is a quick image I snapped:

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-iLGhDwtGou4/T3JO2m9BiAI/AAAAAAAALX8/I8eRpT9Zs4A/s640/Fiat500USA.com-Fiat_500_Abarth-Press_Event%2520383.JPG

ggravant
03-27-2012, 08:17 PM
That info, plus that impossible to get image is worthless???No - your description of it. You said it was straight through pipes, then you post a pic of what looks like a big muffler without any explanation. Lighten up ... geesh

TimAllen
03-27-2012, 08:41 PM
If its straight through i don't get why they would waste all that money to make a "housing" that looks like a muffler, just so it looks like a muffler.

small car lover
03-27-2012, 08:46 PM
My take on the sketch and image Chris posted, what looks like a muffler is really a large, straight-through resonator with a perforated pipe providing the direct flow path. I would guess the volume, shape, stiffness of the housing and the amount of perforation of the internal pipe determines the tone, volume and flow characteristics of the exhaust. I would guess a solid pipe in place of that resonator would be considerably louder and a very different (and probably less musical) tone. When Chris says a dozen or so prototypes were tried, I suspect the engineers were experimenting to come up with the best subjective sound vs HP.

We can remember last fall, the exact HP numbers were not known. Back then, the engineers were still developing the exhaust. Since the exhaust had not be finalized, they had not yet determined the exact flow characteristics and therefore did not know what the exact hp would be. I'd bet they tested other resonators that provided slightly higher hp but were rejected in favor of the final exhaust note we now have (my speculation). I personally think they made a excellent choice, based on what I can hear on the video reviews.

Thanks Chris for posting the information! This would make me extra careful about changing to a aftermarket exhaust.

Fiat500USA
03-27-2012, 09:26 PM
No - your description of it. You said it was straight through pipes, then you post a pic of what looks like a big muffler without any explanation. Lighten up ... geesh

Sorry, all I can do is read what you wrote.

Anyway, I explained "...The rear section is straight pipe and no baffles, running through the housing." and showed a picture of the "muffler". I'm happy to provide more info, as I did for geeded.

Fiat500USA
03-27-2012, 09:42 PM
My take on the sketch and image Chris posted, what looks like a muffler is really a large, straight-through resonator with a perforated pipe providing the direct flow path. I would guess the volume, shape, stiffness of the housing and the amount of perforation of the internal pipe determines the tone, volume and flow characteristics of the exhaust. I would guess a solid pipe in place of that resonator would be considerably louder and a very different (and probably less musical) tone. When Chris says a dozen or so prototypes were tried, I suspect the engineers were experimenting to come up with the best subjective sound vs HP.

We can remember last fall, the exact HP numbers were not known. Back then, the engineers were still developing the exhaust. Since the exhaust had not be finalized, they had not yet determined the exact flow characteristics and therefore did not know what the exact hp would be. I'd bet they tested other resonators that provided slightly higher hp but were rejected in favor of the final exhaust note we now have (my speculation). I personally think they made a excellent choice, based on what I can hear on the video reviews.

Thanks Chris for posting the information! This would make me extra careful about changing to a aftermarket exhaust.

Yes, this is exactly correct. The head motor engineer said he gave the back pressure specifications needed and then the team responsible for the manifolding and exhaust were on their own to create a solution. I would also be a little leery of changing the exhaust.

TimAllen
03-27-2012, 09:57 PM
Very interesting! ive never heard of anything like that before, also never heard anything as good stock besides super cars! So i highly doubt ill be changing the exhaust!

ggravant
03-27-2012, 10:06 PM
Yes, this is exactly correct. The head motor engineer said he gave the back pressure specifications needed and then the team responsible for the manifolding and exhaust were on their own to create a solution. I would also be a little leery of changing the exhaust.I think the issue was when you said it was a straight through pipe. Now that we know that it has holes in it and the gases and noise can circulate round in the housing then it really is a resonator of some sort.

small car lover
03-27-2012, 10:24 PM
I think the issue was when you said it was a straight through pipe. Now that we know that it has holes in it and the gases and noise can circulate round in the housing then it really is a resonator of some sort.

My understanding of resonators is nearly all the exhaust gas proper remains within the internal pipe. The perforations allow pressure pulses into the chamber then reflect off the chamber walls, interact with each other and then change the pressure at the pipe perforations. Think about how a series of waves in a pool of water will reflect off the wall and then affect the later waves that have not yet reached the wall. The water itself does not move much, but the pressure pulse does.

That's how a resonator with a perforated internal pipe can be considered a "straight through" design. The exhaust gas has momentum (and direction) and continues to travel through the perforated pipe. Very little of the exhaust gas changes momentum to exit through the perforations, but the pressure pulses can and do pass through the perforations.

Sorry for being so wordy. I have never been a good writer...

ggravant
03-27-2012, 10:36 PM
My understanding of resonators is nearly all the exhaust gas proper remains within the internal pipe. The perforations allow pressure pulses into the chamber then reflect off the chamber walls, interact with each other and then change the pressure at the pipe perforations. Think about how a series of waves in a pool of water will reflect off the wall and then affect the later waves that have not yet reached the wall. The water itself does not move much, but the pressure pulse does.

That's how a resonator with a perforated internal pipe can be considered a "straight through" design. The exhaust gas has momentum (and direction) and continues to travel through the perforated pipe. Very little of the exhaust gas changes momentum to exit through the perforations, but the pressure pulses can and do pass through the perforations.

Sorry for being so wordy. I have never been a good writer...But you would agree that if there truly were straight pipes without holes passing though a fake housing that the sound would be different, right? If so, then it is acting as some sort of "exhaust noise modification sub-system" haha

nyc eng
03-27-2012, 10:40 PM
Yes, this is exactly correct. The head motor engineer said he gave the back pressure specifications needed and then the team responsible for the manifolding and exhaust were on their own to create a solution. I would also be a little leery of changing the exhaust.

I agree with you and I feel like the following point was communicated by others in the FMIC thread, aftermarket is not always better. Fiat clearly infused a lot of money into perfecting the stock exhaust and its hard to imagine tuners putting as much time and money into their ideal replacement part.

Thank you for addressing my question regarding the exhaust. It's always interesting to me when I hear the thought process behind things.

Now what about that cooling system? :D

Fiat500USA
03-28-2012, 01:07 AM
I agree with you and I feel like the following point was communicated by others in the FMIC thread, aftermarket is not always better. Fiat clearly infused a lot of money into perfecting the stock exhaust and its hard to imagine tuners putting as much time and money into their ideal replacement part.

Thank you for addressing my question regarding the exhaust. It's always interesting to me when I hear the thought process behind things.

Now what about that cooling system? :D

I agree, I also like to hear the reasoning that goes into a decision. I could hang out and talk to the engineers all day. Whenever I go to these functions, I'm always the last one to leave; although I think it may be due to the fact that the other media types want to get to the lunch stop before the food is gone. LOL

Anyway, as far as the cooling system, good question. I'm seeing someone next week and that's on the agenda.

TimAllen
03-28-2012, 01:36 AM
Thanks alot for finding and sharing all these cool engineering tidbits! Its been very awesome to learn so much about this car! It Helped me to decide to buy one :eagerness: I Can't wait to hear about the cooling system.

Abarth01
03-28-2012, 06:37 AM
A question I have for the engineers is, "Where are the tow hook receptacle(s) located on the Abarth? I've seen none on any of the photos or videos. If this is a track ready car I'm hoping it has tow hook receptacles. Thanks!

Update: So I called Maranello FIAT in Canada today. The gentleman I spoke with said they did not get a demo. They only had the one Abarth there for the Grand Opening with Sergio Marchionne as guest speaker. Then they took it back. So nobody was able to confirm/deny the existence of tow hook receptacles.

small car lover
03-28-2012, 08:02 AM
But you would agree that if there truly were straight pipes without holes passing though a fake housing that the sound would be different, right? If so, then it is acting as some sort of "exhaust noise modification sub-system" haha

Right on, I agree 100% :encouragement:

nyc eng
03-28-2012, 09:09 AM
I agree, I also like to hear the reasoning that goes into a decision. I could hang out and talk to the engineers all day. Whenever I go to these functions, I'm always the last one to leave; although I think it may be due to the fact that the other media types want to get to the lunch stop before the food is gone. LOL

Anyway, as far as the cooling system, good question. I'm seeing someone next week and that's on the agenda.

If you need any help around NYC, I have plenty of photography equipment and can look professional. My pictures might not look so professional but I'm good at coming up with excuses. :chuncky:

geeded
03-28-2012, 04:47 PM
Thanks Chris and all the rest,

I didn't mean to cause such a ruckus! I now have a (sort of) working knowledge of the exhaust and the TTC among other items. I agree that trying to improve on what has been accomplished with the exhaust would be a VERY hard proposition.

Chris, I assume the entire exhaust system (including the "resonator", "silencer", "pretty Abarth Scorpion box", thingie) is all stainless steel?

Thanks for all your work.

Cheers

p.s. I KNEW you had a picture of the "butt" somewhere from your trip! ;)

BillE
04-02-2012, 12:35 PM
Question about total paint curing time:

I'm not sure if this is specific to the 'Abarth' engineers but I would like to get a definitive answer from an authoritative source re total time it takes for the paint to fully cure. I intend to have a 'clear bra' (aka paint protective film - PPF) applied as soon as possible after I get my Bianco Abarth at the end of April (hopefully).

Per the status website, it should load onto the railcar on 4-12 and unload at Tampa on 4-28. At that point the paint will have had at least 16 days to cure. Years ago, it was advisable to wait at least 30 (or maybe 60) days before applying anything to the finish. But these days, I think I've heard that new-car paint application (and curing) techniques at the factory negate, or reduce, a need to wait. Therefore, what's the real scoop re our new Abarths?

Thanks.

Vaejovis carolinanus aka lowconabarth
04-02-2012, 08:02 PM
I went shoping today to get a price for a clear bra from 3m in this area it will cost close to a grand. thats $1000.00 alot dont yall think. oops now you know i am from the south.

geeded
04-02-2012, 08:20 PM
I went shoping today to get a price for a clear bra from 3m in this area it will cost close to a grand. thats $1000.00 alot dont yall think. oops now you know i am from the south.

Yes, that's expensive. When we had our '06 MINI S done, it was around 400 and that was from the dealer. Might want to check around.

Oh, and y'all is a terrific word, useful in many situations. Just don't forget to punctuate it correctly;

i.e. y'all correct
ya'll incorrect Yankee spelling

Y'all (or even better, All y'all) have a good evening now, ya' hear. Yes, I'm from that deep in the South. The only Yankee we had in our family was a Virginian who moved to Georgia back in the mid-1700's. I (sort of) jest.

ggravant
04-02-2012, 09:22 PM
I went shoping today to get a price for a clear bra from 3m in this area it will cost close to a grand. thats $1000.00 alot dont yall think. oops now you know i am from the south.That does seem high - we had our 2011 Lexus RX-350 done about a year ago at a local tint shop and they tinted the windows on the two front doors, and put clear bra on the hood, two front fenders, the front of the mirrors, the pockets in the door handles and the edges of the doors for a total of $375.00 and so far it is all holding up just fine.

Edit: Oh and yes it was 3M clear bra material ...

FiatGusto
04-02-2012, 10:00 PM
Like the old saying goes; He was not from Georgia, but he got there as soon as he could.

SeaDawg
04-02-2012, 10:34 PM
I went shoping today to get a price for a clear bra from 3m in this area it will cost close to a grand. thats $1000.00 alot dont yall think. oops now you know i am from the south.Tint King in West Palm Beach quoted me $499. for a 500 Sport.

ewflyer
04-03-2012, 12:18 AM
Yes, that's expensive. When we had our '06 MINI S done, it was around 400 and that was from the dealer. Might want to check around.

Oh, and y'all is a terrific word, useful in many situations. Just don't forget to punctuate it correctly;

i.e. y'all correct
ya'll incorrect Yankee spelling

Y'all (or even better, All y'all) have a good evening now, ya' hear.

Yes, in both proper and improper english the apostrophe takes the place of omitted letters.

Which doesn't explain what the hell is going on with those people from Pittsburgh with their "yinz" as in, "Yinz gonna mow the yard?" "The yard n'at needs mowed" meaning "the yard and surrounding areas need to be mowed".

Shouldn't there be an apostrophe somewhere in the word "Yinz"?

cspak71
04-07-2012, 03:46 AM
Question about total paint curing time:

I'm not sure if this is specific to the 'Abarth' engineers but I would like to get a definitive answer from an authoritative source re total time it takes for the paint to fully cure. I intend to have a 'clear bra' (aka paint protective film - PPF) applied as soon as possible after I get my Bianco Abarth at the end of April (hopefully).

Per the status website, it should load onto the railcar on 4-12 and unload at Tampa on 4-28. At that point the paint will have had at least 16 days to cure. Years ago, it was advisable to wait at least 30 (or maybe 60) days before applying anything to the finish. But these days, I think I've heard that new-car paint application (and curing) techniques at the factory negate, or reduce, a need to wait. Therefore, what's the real scoop re our new Abarths?

Thanks.

after 48 hours, the paint should be fine. My guess that it's probably cured before it left the assembly line, but definitely by the time you receive it. I'm planning on putting clear bra on the vehicle the day I pick it up if I can arrange that type of synchronizing with a specialist who can do that.

BTW, as I'm sure it's apparent but just to confirm, I am NOT an authoritative source regarding paint (i.e. work professionaly as a autobody painter, nor work for DuPont), but I do have regular experience with them, as well as have a very confident recollection regarding the 48 hours not too long ago when I had to get one of our family vehicles repainted after a minor collision.

joforg
04-18-2012, 01:02 PM
Hi
I have a set of new Dunlop Sport 01 DSST's left over from when I sold my mini with snows. Will these 195/55/16 run flats fit the 16" wheel Abarth properly?
Mike

Vaejovis carolinanus aka lowconabarth
04-30-2012, 11:21 PM
This is my ? for the Abarth engineers,will the turbo boost pressure be different for a car at sea level vs the mountains? Of course the car's control system will adjust for any such difference.

Fiat500USA
05-01-2012, 01:49 AM
This is my ? for the Abarth engineers,will the turbo boost pressure be different for a car at sea level vs the mountains? Of course the car's control system will adjust for any such difference.

Yes, I was told the car makes 160 HP at sea level and in the mountains of Colorado.

Fiat411
05-01-2012, 10:50 PM
Is there any new for the 2013 model year?

Fiat500USA
05-02-2012, 01:52 AM
Is there any new for the 2013 model year?

That stuff is kept secret... locked up like Fort Knox. They won't spill beans, especially while the selling season is still going. The only thing we can speculate on is the 500T, the 500c Abarth and *maybe* a special edition. Just remember where you heard it;)

Bret Dodson
05-02-2012, 02:23 AM
At the Drive For The Fans event, the Fiat USA folks were very closed mouthed on future plans. They did say that "there are cool things coming". When I mentioned things like Abarth 500c or even Alfa 4C they wouldn't flinch. These folks are pros, the confidence in their product showed. I'm pulling for them to sell the heck out of these things. I'm probably going to hold on my order for a bit to see if they release either a 500C Abarth or a cool Abarth special edition. My dream Abarth is the Cabrio d'Italia, but I doubt we'll see that here. Maybe a tarted up Abarth with the cool Sabelt seats? I'm dieing to know.

smoove7410
05-02-2012, 06:43 PM
Will the auto paddle shift ever be offered on the US abarth? I understand the additional bracing, but it seems like a huge product void.

johniew398
05-06-2012, 09:09 PM
Mine comes in two weeks from now.

I believe there is already a cold air intake system; but, I am trying to find out if you have to give up the enginer cover for that?

Also, would like to know if Mopar is going to have a tuning kit available through them?

Fiat500USA
05-06-2012, 10:14 PM
Mine comes in two weeks from now.

I believe there is already a cold air intake system; but, I am trying to find out if you have to give up the enginer cover for that?

Also, would like to know if Mopar is going to have a tuning kit available through them?

Pretty much everything you see on the Venom will be here. Seats were being discussed last I heard.

Vaejovis carolinanus aka lowconabarth
06-09-2012, 03:05 PM
Off your topic,but a ? for Abarth engineer. What is the rubberband on the rear brakes for? Haven't looked on front?

Fiat500USA
06-09-2012, 10:45 PM
Off your topic,but a ? for Abarth engineer. What is the rubberband on the rear brakes for? Haven't looked on front?

More info or pics on this if you could.

deathshead
07-23-2012, 09:43 PM
If I had questions for the SRT-PVO team who worked on many great cars, I would ask the following.

For a sports car,
What was the reasoning for
the super weak Motor-transmission mounts.
the clutch pedal and shifter that do not feel like they are connected to anything.

Vaejovis carolinanus aka lowconabarth
07-23-2012, 10:02 PM
3062 Sorry it took so long!

Fiat500USA
07-24-2012, 12:11 AM
Mine comes in two weeks from now.

I believe there is already a cold air intake system; but, I am trying to find out if you have to give up the engine cover for that?

Also, would like to know if Mopar is going to have a tuning kit available through them?

The engine cover actually houses the air filter, so it will have no use. However, it can be modified and retained for the looks.

As far as atuning kit being available. Typically Mopar has performance products available for Chrysler products. From my talks with everyone, this seems likely to be the case with the Abarth.

Fiat500USA
07-24-2012, 12:32 AM
If I had questions for the SRT-PVO team who worked on many great cars, I would ask the following.

For a sports car,
What was the reasoning for
the super weak Motor-transmission mounts.
the clutch pedal and shifter that do not feel like they are connected to anything.

Interesting. I think the mounts are in keeping with consumer expectations for smoothness and refinement. For those who want to compromise on a little NHV, I'm sure the aftermarket will address this.

The shifter is the same as the one used in Europe and has been generally well received. Clutch linkage was redesigned for the NAFTA 500 for a better feel over the European car. Some prefer a heavier feel, but some do not. It's a toss up. I'll give them feedback on this, though.

Pinecone
07-24-2012, 06:59 AM
There seems to be a trend to lighter clutch feel and lighter brake pedal pressures required.

Seems that Americans are too lazy to actually push the pedal. :(

deathshead
07-24-2012, 07:31 AM
Interesting. I think the mounts are in keeping with consumer expectations for smoothness and refinement. For those who want to compromise on a little NHV, I'm sure the aftermarket will address this.

The shifter is the same as the one used in Europe and has been generally well received. Clutch linkage was redesigned for the NAFTA 500 for a better feel over the European car. Some prefer a heavier feel, but some do not. It's a toss up. I'll give them feedback on this, though.

Sorry if I came acrossed as A jerk in my post, that was not my goal.
I think my question is more along the lines of what the engineers might suggest to bring Back clutch feel,
And the shift cables. What is creating the disconnected feel?
The Abarth I test drove felt more like it had loose cables vs the typical soft bushings.

geeded
07-24-2012, 01:07 PM
The shifter is the same as the one used in Europe and has been generally well received. Clutch linkage was redesigned for the NAFTA 500 for a better feel over the European car. Some prefer a heavier feel, but some do not. It's a toss up. I'll give them feedback on this, though.

The stock shifter is light and accurate during a normal shift. If driven in a sporting manner, not so much. That's why I changed it out with an all metal (no plastic) replacement. No more problems. A piece that was obviously made to a price which is not a surprise.

The clutch I like a lot. It is light (not overly), very progressive, and engages middle/high which is perfect for me. I've owned muscle cars and if a heavy clutch is unnecessary, why would you want one?

Of course, this is my experience with my Abarth, as always, YMMV

Cheers

nyc eng
07-24-2012, 01:48 PM
There seems to be a trend to lighter clutch feel and lighter brake pedal pressures required.

Seems that Americans are too lazy to actually push the pedal. :(

I just replaced a twin disc clutch because of how it drove in stop and go traffic. If I test drove the Abarth and it had a clutch similar to that twin disc I would have cancelled my order.

I love driving a manual car during my commute but having something that's too stiff becomes an unpleasant nightmare in traffic and city driving.

ukeluthier
07-24-2012, 10:45 PM
I just replaced a twin disc clutch because of how it drove in stop and go traffic. If I test drove the Abarth and it had a clutch similar to that twin disc I would have cancelled my order.

I love driving a manual car during my commute but having something that's too stiff becomes an unpleasant nightmare in traffic and city driving.

Exactly. I personally don't equate the need for heavy driver inputs with high performance. With good engineering, it is certainly possible to have good driver feedback and well-controlled engagement without excessive force being required, so why the need to feel like you are driving a race car on the street in real-world urban traffic conditions?

Vaejovis carolinanus aka lowconabarth
08-06-2012, 01:00 PM
Is the oil plug on the abarth a M14X1.5X16? Also does the multi-air engine take longer to drain?

Vaejovis carolinanus aka lowconabarth
08-07-2012, 05:16 PM
Is the oil plug on the abarth a M14X1.5X16? Also does the multi-air engine take longer to drain? Yes it fits. I found out by taking to local Chrysler Dodge dealer that will sell fiats later. They installed it today.

Crossfirecat
09-19-2012, 11:50 PM
I would like to know if using Mobil 1 0w40 instead of 5w40, will adversely affect the valve train and void the warranty. Especially since I have a stockpile of it left over from my SRT-6!

Pinecone
09-20-2012, 03:26 AM
It should be fine. The only difference is that when cold, the oil will flow better, making for a bit less wear. Once hot, it is the same viscosity at 5W-40

FiatCares
09-20-2012, 10:42 AM
I would like to know if using Mobil 1 0w40 instead of 5w40, will adversely affect the valve train and void the warranty. Especially since I have a stockpile of it left over from my SRT-6!

This is a tough one for me to answer 'politically correct' lol . I cant say that it would cause any problems; I cant say that it wouldnt. I can only recommend whats in the users guide; 5w30 for 1.4 multi-air . The bigger issue is using it, and causing no issues, but if ever the studio found that oil that wasnt recommended for the vehicle is being used, they may void the warranty.

Crossfirecat
09-20-2012, 11:06 AM
This is a tough one for me to answer 'politically correct' lol . I cant say that it would cause any problems; I cant say that it wouldnt. I can only recommend whats in the users guide; 5w30 for 1.4 multi-air . The bigger issue is using it, and causing no issues, but if ever the studio found that oil that wasnt recommended for the vehicle is being used, they may void the warranty.

I should have mentioned this was in regards to the Abarth(recomended oil is synthetic 5w40). But I understand the answer would still be the same. Thank you.

Pinecone
09-20-2012, 11:18 AM
I think it would be hard for them to stand on saying that a 0W-40 caused damage than a 5W-40 would not.

Would be an interesting one in court. :)

BigDaddySRT
09-20-2012, 01:04 PM
I think it would be hard for them to stand on saying that a 0W-40 caused damage than a 5W-40 would not.

Would be an interesting one in court. :)

If you want to maintain your Manufacture Powertrain Warranty... you'd better follow the Manufacture's Guidelines/ Recommendations.

Pinecone
09-21-2012, 01:09 AM
I know, if you search my posts, I am the one saying that a LOT.

But in to void a warranty, there has to be a connection between the change on the failure. 0W-40 actually protects the engine better during cold starts.

Also, this is a manufacturers recommendation, not a requirement. Fiat/Chrysler "recommends" an oil meeting the Chrysler Material Spec 10896 for Abarths. There is NO oil that meets that specs. So you cannot follow the recommendations.

You DO have to follow requirements.

They do REQUIRE oils that meet API certification.

Fiat500USA
01-11-2013, 01:04 AM
Going to do a round two with the Abarth engineers next week at the Detroit Auto Show. Let me know if there are any questions (I'm going through the thread to see if there are some that still need answers) and I'll do my best to get the answers. I may have to pick and choose them as I have a busy few days and am meeting the 500e and 500L team leaders also.

RustyPaint
01-11-2013, 02:47 AM
Is there any significance to the change in the exhaust for 2013 (just pipes versus the box with scorpions)?

Will the spare fit with the new exhaust change?

b56.1m6
01-11-2013, 08:19 AM
I was under my 13 and I don't see any way the spare would fit above the exhaust. If you could fit it up ther you would never be able to remove or replace it.

Fiat500USA
01-11-2013, 08:51 AM
Is there any significance to the change in the exhaust for 2013 (just pipes versus the box with scorpions)?

Will the spare fit with the new exhaust change?

There is a thread on the exhaust change made to cars built after May 2012. Below is one of the posts I did on that thread, for your convenience. I received the information right from the top, so it is accurate. You can read the whole thread here. (http://www.fiat500usaforum.com/showthread.php?6020-Stock-exhaust-No-rear-quot-muffler-quot-box/page4)


Here, let me share some behind the scenes info. The exhaust that is on the cars after that May date is the standard exhaust the car was designed to have. As many of you know, Fiat changed the muffler tuning up until the very last possible minute. In fact, during the launch at the LA Show, I purposely didn't publish undercarriage shots because things weren't finalized.

Ultimately the car wound up with a straight-pipe exhaust system, but that confirmation came very late in development. Fiat wasn't sure they'd get the go ahead and had to prepare for a muffler system with more noise-attenuation content. Because they needed to launch with a fully validated mechanical system (including the muffler hangers and their body side anchorages), they left the "suitcase" (muffler housing) in the car for the launch. Inside this muffler housing, there's nothing but a straight pipe. It is not an expansion volume in the NAFTA Abarth, though that is its purpose in the (quieter) EU car. Being developed by no nonsense development engineers and racers, it was always Fiat's intention to eliminate the weight of the suitcase once a redesigned piece could be thoroughly engineered.

The benefit is an 18 pound weight reduction. The backpressure is the same, the sound is the same, and even aerodynamics (a potential problem which was carefully evaluated in the wind tunnel) are unchanged within test-to-test variation.

So that's the scoop. Remember, you heard it here first! :highly_amused:

VTEC Mini
01-11-2013, 01:58 PM
Going to do a round two with the Abarth engineers next week at the Detroit Auto Show. Let me know if there are any questions (I'm going through the thread to see if there are some that still need answers) and I'll do my best to get the answers. I may have to pick and choose them as I have a busy few days and am meeting the 500e and 500L team leaders also.I would like to know what happened to the Venom parts and, even though it is petty, the rear window washer nozzle dribble issue. Why the big price difference on the audio system for the Beats on the "T" and the Abarth. Any plans for future models like the pick up or spreading the Abarth to the "L" or any other future variants.

ggravant
01-11-2013, 02:04 PM
One consistent issue I read about with the Abarth is how squirrely the rear end is under hard braking. Are there ways to reduce that? Another consistent complaint is the seat height - any possible future plans to buy lower "race optimized" seats as an option or through Mopar Performance?

SeaDawg
01-11-2013, 02:39 PM
Why the big price difference on the audio system for the Beats on the "T" and the Abarth.

I assume you mean the difference in price for Beats BETWEEN the Abarth ($700) and the 'T' ($1,500)? It's because FIAT has decided the 'T' is the Pop (base, dirt cheap model) of the Abarth (turbocharged) line and NOT an upgraded Sport. I happen to disagree, but my (our) opinion doesn't count in this case. To upgrade the Pop also costs $1,500 dollars vs $700 for the Sport or Lounge.

VTEC Mini
01-11-2013, 02:50 PM
I just read the Abarth "problems" section and it appears there is still an issue with the side skirts. Any plans on a fix?

Bartman
01-19-2013, 10:17 AM
I know this is kind of petty but why didn't the Abarth get a variable speed delay wiper option since the Abarth is quite an upgrade from the base models? Is there an aftermarket add-on to change what I have to what I want?
Thanks!

whatebahw
01-19-2013, 11:51 AM
I assume you mean the difference in price for Beats BETWEEN the Abarth ($700) and the 'T' ($1,500)? It's because FIAT has decided the 'T' is the Pop (base, dirt cheap model) of the Abarth (turbocharged) line and NOT an upgraded Sport. I happen to disagree, but my (our) opinion doesn't count in this case. To upgrade the Pop also costs $1,500 dollars vs $700 for the Sport or Lounge.


I assume it is because they have 3 different stereos.

1 Basic (stock)
2 Premium (Alpine)
3 Ultra Premium (Alpine w. Sub or Beats)

If the car comes normally equipped with Basic it casts $1,500 to add the Alpine speakers and sub.
If the car comes normally equipped with Premium (Alpine) it only costs $700 more for the added sub.

luckymoi
01-19-2013, 03:38 PM
(1) fix the heater outlet position so it does not scald my gas pedal ankle.
(2) provide a trunk light on right side too (its dark in there lads!)
Keep the car simple inside like it is, certainly no display screen.
I never buy integrated navigation etc.
Simple push buttons, one per function, I don't want to scroll thru layers of stuff to perform a function.
I don't equate complexity with quality in design.
You folks laugh but our cinquecento will end up in the museum of modern art for its many brilliant design elements, would love to see stay that way for many iterations to come and fix the scalding in winter.
There's another Fiat in my future based on my current experience but an asbestos ankle cuff won't do it.

ukeluthier
01-20-2013, 05:53 PM
Keep the car simple inside like it is, certainly no display screen.
I never buy integrated navigation etc.
Simple push buttons, one per function, I don't want to scroll thru layers of stuff to perform a function.
I don't equate complexity with quality in design.

This! ^^^

Fiat500USA
01-20-2013, 06:07 PM
One consistent issue I read about with the Abarth is how squirrely the rear end is under hard braking. Are there ways to reduce that? Another consistent complaint is the seat height - any possible future plans to buy lower "race optimized" seats as an option or through Mopar Performance?

In my experience, under hard street driving with the electronics turned on this shouldn't be an issue, besides it feeling somewhat unsettling. You do need to be braking harder than what most people would consider normal driving. The electronics are there for a reason. As far as the seat goes, now that the Beats Audio has replaced the subwoofer under the passenger seat, don't be surprised if you see a change at some point. :wink:

ggravant
01-20-2013, 08:24 PM
In my experience, under hard street driving with the electronics turned on this shouldn't be an issue, besides it feeling somewhat unsettling. You do need to be braking harder than what most people would consider normal driving. The electronics are there for a reason. As far as the seat goes, now that the Beats Audio has replaced the subwoofer under the passenger seat, don't be surprised if you see a change at some point. :wink:Well sometimes it is all about perception and if the reviewers keep complaining about it, it might strike a cord with potential buyers. Just curious if there was anything that might be done about it. Good news on the seats (I hope ;-) )

Andree
02-06-2013, 06:19 AM
I would like to know what happened to the Venom parts and, even though it is petty, the rear window washer nozzle dribble issue. Why the big price difference on the audio system for the Beats on the "T" and the Abarth. Any plans for future models like the pick up or spreading the Abarth to the "L" or any other future variants.

It's pretty amazing what info seems the same but isn't, on the Fiat site. I'm looking at the individual cars under the Build and Price, Choose Options, Packages, then clicking the little "i" for information.

Looking at the SPORT model, the $700 Beats PACKAGE includes 2 items: "Beats Audio 6 Premium Speakers including Subwoofer" AND SiriusXM Satellite Radio. Zipping into the Abarth area, the $700 Beats package is two items, just like the Sport.

Looking at the TURBO (500t) model, the $1,500 Beats PACKAGE includes 3 items: "Beats Audio 6 Premium Speakers including Subwoofer" AND SiriusXM Satellite Radio AND Security Alarm. The 3 item $1,500 package for the Beats with the alarm shows up in the Pop options too.

For the Lounge model, the Beats package consists of only the Beats subwoofer/stereo, and is priced lower, at $500. Why? The Lounge already comes with the Alpine stereo, and has a security alarm as standard.

That is where your price differences come from. And why it's super important to read all the fine print. Even then, between models and photos, it can get confusing. Stuff like "the lounge comes with a glass roof, but it doesn't open. Opening glass roof is optional."

MAZ
02-11-2013, 12:58 PM
Sorry if this was already covered;

Dear Abarth Engineer,
Can I get a decent coat of clearcoat?
It seems like if I look at the paint for too long it scratches.

Mike S
02-11-2013, 02:33 PM
Sorry if this was already covered;

Dear Abarth Engineer,
Can I get a decent coat of clearcoat?
It seems like if I look at the paint for too long it scratches.

Then don't look at it. That was an easy fix.

Fiat500USA
06-25-2014, 11:46 AM
I am suppose to get together with an Abarth engineer shortly. Post your questions here and I'll try to get an answer for you.

VTEC Mini
06-25-2014, 12:16 PM
I have two;

1. Why hasn't a solution been made out for the side skirts?
2. Why is it the rubber tubes for the intercooler secured on one end with a worm clamp while the other end is just held on with spring clip where the metal pipeing can move in and out and twist creating leaks?

Fiat500USA
06-25-2014, 12:24 PM
2. Why is it the rubber tubes for the intercooler secured on one end with a worm clamp while the other end is just held on with spring clip where the metal pipeing can move in and out and twist creating leaks?

Do you have a picture of that or the exact location? That will help me explain it if I need to elaborate. Thanks!

Fiat500USA
06-25-2014, 12:30 PM
From what I've been told before, the sidekirts and adhesive are identical to the Euro cars and are an inherited design. I'll see if there is any news on them.

VTEC Mini
06-26-2014, 09:27 AM
Do you have a picture of that or the exact location? That will help me explain it if I need to elaborate. Thanks!Here you go Chris. you can see the hose (4) has a clamp on one end but appears to have nothing when attached to piping (22). (4) slides on to (22) and is just held in place by a "C" clip (which is not shown). This gives enough slop for the pipe to move in and out and twist. There is nothing to tighten the rubber hose to the metal tubing.

12654

doverosx
07-22-2014, 03:55 PM
Question about total paint curing time:

I'm not sure if this is specific to the 'Abarth' engineers but I would like to get a definitive answer from an authoritative source re total time it takes for the paint to fully cure. I intend to have a 'clear bra' (aka paint protective film - PPF) applied as soon as possible after I get my Bianco Abarth at the end of April (hopefully).

Per the status website, it should load onto the railcar on 4-12 and unload at Tampa on 4-28. At that point the paint will have had at least 16 days to cure. Years ago, it was advisable to wait at least 30 (or maybe 60) days before applying anything to the finish. But these days, I think I've heard that new-car paint application (and curing) techniques at the factory negate, or reduce, a need to wait. Therefore, what's the real scoop re our new Abarths?

Thanks.

Factory paint is cured more thoroughly than paint done by a body shop. The ability for the manufacturer to bake these items at their highest possible temperatures allows the paint to gas out completely. You can wax + clear bra right when you receive the car without any issues.

pederb
07-25-2014, 02:41 AM
Here in EU the car tax (registration) is based on how much CO the car lets out and I'm having a hard time to find out how much CO2 the US version of my 13 500 Abarth emits.

The EU model emits CO2 155g/km so I wonder if my US model is the same?

Any inputs is of value

UsernSC
11-08-2014, 07:46 PM
What would be required to change the EVIC of the 2012 Abarth to the "New" style used in the 2015 Abarth?

from this: 15257

to this: 15258

doverosx
11-08-2014, 08:05 PM
What would be required to change the EVIC of the 2012 Abarth to the "New" style used in the 2015 Abarth?

from this: 15257

to this: 15258

I'm waiting for the first guinea pig on behalf of my friend's girlfriend. I try really hard not to talk about the new LCD cluster :)

Abarth Fun
11-08-2014, 08:26 PM
I am suppose to get together with an Abarth engineer shortly. Post your questions here and I'll try to get an answer for you.

I didn't realize that we could have access to Fiat engineers. When you can could you please contact Fiat and ask them if the available mechanical limited slip differential's will work with the existing traction control system on our cars?

I'm thinking of getting a Wavetrac LSD but I would like to hear potential pros and cons from Fiat engineers.

Fiat500USA
11-09-2014, 01:32 AM
Here in EU the car tax (registration) is based on how much CO the car lets out and I'm having a hard time to find out how much CO2 the US version of my 13 500 Abarth emits.

The EU model emits CO2 155g/km so I wonder if my US model is the same?

Any inputs is of value

The US Fiat 500 Abarth puts out 295 grams of CO2 per mile. There may be differences between how that is measured in Europe and the US. Haven't found the answer on that yet.

Trunkout
10-28-2015, 11:42 AM
If it will share the current Abarth engine... Will current bolt on mods easily swap over to the new 124?

mama mia
10-28-2015, 05:50 PM
Why is there a 90 mph limiter with the top down- is the car really that unstable after 90 mph or will the top fly off???

Tweak
10-28-2015, 06:30 PM
Why is there a 90 mph limiter with the top down- is the car really that unstable after 90 mph or will the top fly off???

I think mostly (completely) it deals with the top itself.