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View Full Version : Live Abarth reveal, what happened?



Mike S
11-16-2011, 06:08 PM
Stopped halfway through.

Can we see it somewhere?

Mpath
11-16-2011, 06:11 PM
Try CarBuzz or Autoblog.

Mike S
11-16-2011, 09:08 PM
Still can't find too much info yet. What I see, I don't like. This is not an Abarth.

It should be the base model 500.

blefevre
11-16-2011, 09:19 PM
What are you looking for? Turbo, forged crank/rods/pistons, FSD shocks, -1.5 front camber, diffuser/spoiler, forged wheels, disable-able ESC system, already endurance race tested....not good enough for a cheap car?

The press release as a TON of info. Go on autoblog or search for the official Fiat/Chrysler press release.

sjmst
11-16-2011, 09:25 PM
Thought it was just me

Mike S
11-16-2011, 09:56 PM
To me an Abarth is a performance car. This is not an Abarth, it is a car with Abarth stickers on it. It is a bit better than a standard 500. An extra 20 or 30k might get it close enough to what I want.

I just got rid of a Volvo Wagon that was faster and it was several years old.

I'm old and want some comfort too. I may have to buy a Gucci and stick 20k into it.

Many of us got old. We could not afford some of the cars we wanted over the years. We can now. The 500 can be entry level AND also have much more expensive versions. It can do both and we will all be smiling.

buzzny
11-16-2011, 10:02 PM
To me an Abarth is a performance car. This is not an Abarth, it is a car with Abarth stickers on it. It is a bit better than a standard 500. An extra 20 or 30k might get it close enough to what I want.

I just got rid of a Volvo Wagon that was faster and it was several years old.

I'm old and want some comfort too. I may have to buy a Gucci and stick 20k into it.

Many of us got old. We could not afford some of the cars we wanted over the years. We can now. The 500 can be entry level AND also have much more expensive versions. It can do both and we will all be smiling.

A-Men Brother! (from a former: got old, multiple Volvo turbo guy, who is buying toys now too)

Max
11-16-2011, 11:41 PM
To me an Abarth is a performance car. This is not an Abarth, it is a car with Abarth stickers on it. It is a bit better than a standard 500. An extra 20 or 30k might get it close enough to what I want.

I just got rid of a Volvo Wagon that was faster and it was several years old.

I'm old and want some comfort too. I may have to buy a Gucci and stick 20k into it.

Many of us got old. We could not afford some of the cars we wanted over the years. We can now. The 500 can be entry level AND also have much more expensive versions. It can do both and we will all be smiling.

My thought differs a little. Price aside since we don't know what it is yet, I think they nailed it spot on. A car does not need to have 500HP and a Hemi V8 to be a performance car. I know you understand this with your experience behind you and its not what you said or meant... This ABARTH has 160HP out of the box. Thats 59% more than the standard version. Its got engine, body, seats, suspension, exhaust, wheels, electronics and break upgrades, thats a lot to me. Its not just badging. There will be additional STAGE 1, 2 and 3 factory ABARTH approved performance kits available which will have to be installed by a licensed ABARTH tech in the near future. Just like in Europe. I read some place that a STAGE 1 upgrade will bump HP by some 40 to a total of 200. Thats a lot for a small light car. I can speak a little from experience having owned a 2009 Factory JCW (John Cooper Works) Mini Hardtop. It had 208HP out of the box plus all the other similar upgrades that this ABARTH has. The stock Cooper S had 172HP thus the JCW was a 21% increase in HP. My mini felt faster than my Volvo S60R and certainly more entertaining to drive. The Mini JCW is also 31K base. As you add options the Mini jumps in price quicker than the 500.
I'd say lets see how it does in some tests before before we start to criticize it. Lets drive one first. Look back at the ABRATH of yester years (note-I never owned a FIAT or ABARTH before) and I believe the HP differences were not double or triple of the regular model it was based on. Just like the John Copper Mini's. Its a formula of HP and handling improvements that worked back then but it may be harder to shine in todays world.

For me I was not disappointed but I do have to admit that I am not going to cancel my 500C order changing it to the ABARTH. I'll get the 500C Lounge this year (should it ever arrive) and then get a cabrio ABARTH at the end of next year should it get announced. I just love how they kept true to the original roll back roof design.\\

Maybe you would prefer the ABARTH Ferrrari 695 Tributo but I cannot fathom spending that much on such a "small" car.

Max

Have Trumpet Will Travel
11-17-2011, 12:13 AM
Actually, the ABARTH versions of the 500, 600 and 600D were commonly around TWICE the power, the engines were really massaged with head work compression, etc. Often the cubic displacement was nearly doubled (won't be the case with the 500 ABARTH) for instance: an OT 1000 engine in the 600-based car. I expect Mr. Fiat to comment on this because he's more in-the-loop than I, being a long time Abarth owner. Just some input from a former 750 Allemano owner. HTWT.

cmj912
11-17-2011, 10:12 AM
Live Abarth Reveal: I clicked on almost all of the Chrysler-sponsored links and nothing happened. Abarth page, Facebook, etc.

Around 9pm I saw what must have been the end of the reveal show up on Youtube. I'll check again today to see if it is up.

SeaDawg
11-17-2011, 11:26 AM
Live Abarth Reveal: I clicked on almost all of the Chrysler-sponsored links and nothing happened. Abarth page, Facebook, etc.

Around 9pm I saw what must have been the end of the reveal show up on Youtube. I'll check again today to see if it is up.

The whole thing was up last night on fiat500usa.com. The entire clip was only a little over 16 minutes long and the actual presentation was only about 15 minutes of the clip. There was more information to be gotten from the documents that Chris V. put up during the day, before the presentation, IMNHO.

eatworksleepdie
11-17-2011, 11:50 AM
Yeah, i watched the clock count down, then nothing... waited a minute, then reloaded, nothing.. clicked refresh, clicked shift+refresh, nothing.... went home to see if it was just a work thing (even though there's no firewalls set up or anything at work) .. got home and, you guessed it, nothing... I got a whole lot of NOTHING! :D no biggy, though. I know what it looks like, I read the specs. only thing I'm waiting for it the price!! I want to know if it's something I can afford or not!

Giallo Edizione
11-17-2011, 12:15 PM
So they botched the on-line reveal and didn't reveal the price.....par for the course for FIAT marketing.

When will they learn.

Sigh.

MrFiat
11-17-2011, 12:19 PM
Actually, the ABARTH versions of the 500, 600 and 600D were commonly around TWICE the power, the engines were really massaged with head work compression, etc. Often the cubic displacement was nearly doubled (won't be the case with the 500 ABARTH) for instance: an OT 1000 engine in the 600-based car. I expect Mr. Fiat to comment on this because he's more in-the-loop than I, being a long time Abarth owner. Just some input from a former 750 Allemano owner. HTWT.

I've spent the last two hours trying to put my thoughts into some sort of coherent reply. I sense some general disappointment in the posts I've read today. Abarth is a different kind of beast from anything that most of us have seen before. It appears to me that some of us here don't quite understand how or why and I'd like to try to shed some light on the matter.
Of course, the !&*!!*!$ computer crashed before I could post it and I lost the entire thing. So I'll try to recreate it as best I can as soon as I cool off. GRRRRRRRRRRR

SeaDawg
11-17-2011, 12:28 PM
So they botched the on-line reveal and didn't reveal the price.....par for the course for FIAT marketing.

When will they learn.

Sigh.

I sometimes think their motto is: 'Never give them what they want!'

SeaDawg
11-17-2011, 12:34 PM
I've spent the last two hours trying to put my thoughts into some sort of coherent reply. I sense some general disappointment in the posts I've read today. Abarth is a different kind of beast from anything that most of us have seen before. It appears to me that some of us here don't quite understand how or why and I'd like to try to shed some light on the matter.
Of course, the !&*!!*!$ computer crashed before I could post it and I lost the entire thing. So I'll try to recreate it as best I can as soon as I cool off. GRRRRRRRRRRR

I think what most people are disappointed (disgusted) about is the continuing game Fiat Marketing plays with pricing, at least the disclosure of it. They did the same thing when the 500 itself was introduced so I guess we shouldn't be suprised.

I'm glad I wasn't around when your computer crashed!:friendly_wink:

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts...

blefevre
11-17-2011, 12:51 PM
How long did the wait to release the base 500's price? What about the announcement of the Prima edition?

luckymoi
11-17-2011, 02:59 PM
I finally got the video of the reveal to play... steamy ad and all.
I'm not up on the freshest news but I was surprised not to see L Soave do the reveal, has she been shelved?
I thought it was a decent auto show try... vivere come un italiano... good for license plate frame? Maybe a bit too long.
Cars show up in March do they? My cabrio is staying! But maybe after we figure out about the Christmas tree and the fiat I'll know if we will have 'due italiani piccoli'.
The cabrio will handle six grocery bags in the boot plus more with one seat folded... Xmas is gonna be tricky!
Maybe standing the tree upright... this will be some sight.

FiatGusto
11-17-2011, 03:28 PM
I certainly do not have the insight that many of you do about FIAT, but I do feel passionate about my Sport.
If Fiat blows it in the States it will not be because of a poor product; but an inability of their marketing division to listen
to their customers. This time, FIX IT AGAIN TONY will not be at fault.
I am continually amazed at how they promote this wonderful, wonderful car.

SeaDawg
11-17-2011, 06:10 PM
How long did the wait to release the base 500's price? What about the announcement of the Prima edition?

This forum was established primarily for the Prima owners so there are a bunch of them here that could better answer that one. As I recall, don't quote me on this, it was only about a month before the regular 500's went on sale.

MrFiat
11-17-2011, 08:45 PM
I'm glad I wasn't around when your computer crashed!:friendly_wink:


LOL, Me too. It wasn't pretty!

MrFiat
11-17-2011, 08:49 PM
Actually, the ABARTH versions of the 500, 600 and 600D were commonly around TWICE the power, the engines were really massaged with head work compression, etc. Often the cubic displacement was nearly doubled (won't be the case with the 500 ABARTH) for instance: an OT 1000 engine in the 600-based car. I expect Mr. Fiat to comment on this because he's more in-the-loop than I, being a long time Abarth owner. Just some input from a former 750 Allemano owner. HTWT.

Pricing and marketing considerations aside for now, (and I sympathise with your frustrations on that topic), I'd like to address the performance complaints I've read recently. I've probably been the biggest pain in the *** around here talking about Abarths and how much I'm waiting for the 500A to make it's official appearance. (my apologies for that please). Now that it's arrived, I'm sensing a certain amount of disappointment from some of the folks here. I'm not exactly sure why. Personally speaking, there's no disappointment here. My expectations for this car are and always have been very high, but perhaps in a different way from how many of you may be looking at it. It's difficult to put into words, but based on almost 50 years of living with the old one and from the specs I've seen so far, I fully expect the 500 Abarth will exceed my best expectations. Of course, my expectations may be too low, but I honestly don't think that's the case.
I've driven small cars all my life and I love them. My 100 HP 1300CC twin cam '93 Suzuki GTI Swift could hold it's own with the big boys. It was fast and comfortable and got 40 mpg in the process. That was automotive sophistication for its day. It was well engineered and well executed. I kept it for 18 years. It took Europe a little longer but it too eventually began building sophisticated cars for the masses. Our new 500 is an excellent example. So is the new Abarth. Now advanced technology has finally come to the U.S auto industry and it's about damn time. Here in the US we are not at all used to the kind of small efficient cars Europe has lived with for decades. We're used to BIG ones with lots of brute horsepower because that's what Detroit told us we needed. Only recently, has autotive sophistry become available here without having to buy a foreign product.
In Europe the 500 isn't considered a particularly small car. But by U.S. standards, our new Abarth is a small car but it's a small car with a BIG attitude. The new video with the sexy lady says it very well. "I'm HOT and I'll deliver the goods if you can handle it"! You would think that after 50 years of living with an automobile, (I'm talking about the Zagato now) it would have long ago lost it's excitement factor. Not at all so. If you've ever sat in a race car waiting for the green flag to drop, or stood in the doorway of an airplane waiting to make your first parachute jump, you know the rush you feel in the pit of your stomach just before you go. The Abarth still feels that way even after all this time. Driving it feels, --- well, --- different, like being in a race car on the street. Slide into the pilots seat and turn the key. If that doesn't make a believer out of you, nothing will. The folks in Europe that have driven them will know what I'm talking about. Out there, they have 130 hp and are VERY highly regarded. If you think the 500 puts a smile on your face, just wait until you drive the 500A version.
Abarth has always taken normal production cars and turned them into machines for an enthusiast. True to form they've taken the new Fiat 500 and just as it did fifty years ago, modified it for the enthusiast. The concern I'm hearing here is, how well can that 160 hp engine move the car? Remember, these folks are experts at building Small, Fast cars. Given Abarth's reputation for being the undisputed master of sucking the last drop of performance out of a small engine, my guess is it will be plenty good. Hell, I can still scare myself in the old car! 160 horsepower not enough for you? That's ok. Read the news. Tuners are getting as much as 300 HP out of the 1.4. You can too if you want. It's the Abarth way. Speaking of HP, It's not so much a question of how much you have, as it is what you can do with it. Consider this. If you want the enemy defeated, you can either hire a Neanderthal with a huge club or you can hire a Ninja. Both will do the job for you, but the Ninja will do it with a bit more sophistication. If you're one of those people who prefers the Neanderthal approach, the Abarth is not for you. Go buy a Hummer. It has lots of horsepower.
I have not had the pleasure of driving the new Abarth yet, but based on my experience with the '60, here is my best advice. Put off making a judgment on the new Abarth until you've had a chance to sit in the pilots seat and turn the key. I honestly believe you can't truly appreciate the car until you experience it first-hand.

Fiat500USA
11-18-2011, 03:19 AM
Hi all,

My apologies I haven't been here sooner. I've been struggling with the worse internet connection this side of dial-up here in LA, so everything takes hours to get done here. I asked the powers that be about the feed ( I haven't been able to watch it because of my connection!), here's what I've learned; the launch is over in 14 minutes or so, during the last two minutes, people at the event were shown a video, however the rights to broadcast that video on the feed were not purchased as the launch was effectively over. That's why the replay shows two minutes or so of nothing.

ciddyguy
11-19-2011, 01:22 PM
Also, over on the blog itself, I think Chris even says it in one post that the 160HP is estimated as it's not been officially verified yet at the time of posting. That means it could be a bit more as estimates have said all along, that more than 130-135HP was very possible, perhaps as much as 170HP. If Fiat does what they have done with the Abarth in Europe, this car will step up in performance/specs with various versions of the Abarth, including the Ess, Ess.

The reveal was nice but lacking in some crucial details but Chris also blogged the price estimates to be less than $25K, meaning it could begin at 20K or a scoshe over.

Fiat500USA
11-20-2011, 01:21 AM
Also, over on the blog itself, I think Chris even says it in one post that the 160HP is estimated as it's not been officially verified yet at the time of posting. That means it could be a bit more as estimates have said all along, that more than 130-135HP was very possible, perhaps as much as 170HP. If Fiat does what they have done with the Abarth in Europe, this car will step up in performance/specs with various versions of the Abarth, including the Ess, Ess.

The reveal was nice but lacking in some crucial details but Chris also blogged the price estimates to be less than $25K, meaning it could begin at 20K or a scoshe over.

Like the US 500 , the Abarth is an evolution of the Euro car. They are not going to say this because some tact has to be exercised in respect to European sensibilities, but the US car is version 2.0 and offers more performance.

Also, the price I posted is more than just an estimate, it is from a really good source.

Fiat500USA
11-20-2011, 01:34 AM
This forum was established primarily for the Prima owners so there are a bunch of them here that could better answer that one. As I recall, don't quote me on this, it was only about a month before the regular 500's went on sale.

The price for the Fiat 500 was posted on the day of the reveal and the Prima price was emailed the same day.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-etSGOx-ZJhE/TR6lPo9rCJI/AAAAAAAAE5U/WMl_1VJ8Q2Y/s640/PrimaEdizione%25252520eMail%2525252011-17-2010%25252520PM%25252520v1-flat%25255B1%25255D.jpg

SeaDawg
11-20-2011, 01:58 AM
The price for the Fiat 500 was posted on the day of the reveal and the Prima price was emailed the same day.



Boy am I glad I used that disclaimer 'don't quote me on this'.:cower:

Fiat500USA
11-20-2011, 02:10 AM
Boy am I glad I used that disclaimer 'don't quote me on this'.:cower:

Hi SeaDawg,

It's all good. I couldn't remember either, and luckily found my email.

Have Trumpet Will Travel
11-20-2011, 03:30 AM
Just wanted to clarify that a day or two ago when I mentioned the Abarths of yesteryear having TWICE the horses that was not to say that I expect the 500A to have 202 h.p. The new FIAT 500 is IMHO very adequate as is, SO . . .160-170 h.p. should be more than enough in the Abarth version, especially if we eventually get the 6-speed manual. A modern 4-stroke engine putting out 2 h.p. per cubic-inch is in a pretty high state of tune, even by today's standards. There are, of course, exceptions such as the Triumph 675c.c. "triple" (motorcycle) rated at 124 h.p. = 3 h.p. per cu. in. ( in excess of 10,000 rpm ). In all practicality we want real-world driveability so it is difficult to have e-gads of horsepower along with a degree of reliability thrown in. In the quest for gobs of power from smaller engines, the line has to be drawn somewhere to retain dependability for our daily drivers. As for me, I simply cannot wait for the new Abarth 500 . . . just some thoughts - HTWT.

ciddyguy
11-20-2011, 11:02 AM
Like the US 500 , the Abarth is an evolution of the Euro car. They are not going to say this because some tact has to be exercised in respect to European sensibilities, but the US car is version 2.0 and offers more performance.

Also, the price I posted is more than just an estimate, it is from a really good source.

That all makes sense as you say Chris.

I'd forgotten you'd mention that the price "estimate" for the Abarth came from a very, very reliable source but obviously you could not say exactly since it's not been revealed as yet I don't think, after all, what we saw was a pre-production model and some things will/can change by the time it's in the showrooms, though I'm assuming as close as it is to being brought to market, I doubt much will change as it's probably more or less now set in stone except for final tweaks and such before actual line production begins.

Fiat500USA
11-20-2011, 12:29 PM
That all makes sense as you say Chris.

I'd forgotten you'd mention that the price "estimate" for the Abarth came from a very, very reliable source but obviously you could not say exactly since it's not been revealed as yet I don't think, after all, what we saw was a pre-production model and some things will/can change by the time it's in the showrooms, though I'm assuming as close as it is to being brought to market, I doubt much will change as it's probably more or less now set in stone except for final tweaks and such before actual line production begins.

I just wanted to clarify that. There are some folks that think the car will start off over $25 k so I wanted to let them know.

I anticipate some minor differences - the exhaust is still beig finalized and some under the car / chassis items also. That is contributing to the lack of details in the press kit.

ciddyguy
11-20-2011, 12:59 PM
I just wanted to clarify that. There are some folks that think the car will start off over $25 k so I wanted to let them know.

I anticipate some minor differences - the exhaust is still beig finalized and some under the car / chassis items also. That is contributing to the lack of details in the press kit.

True Chris,

Just go over to The Truth about Cars to and you'll hear fears about the Abarth being closer to 25K and then there was the editor in chief quickly pronouncing Fiat's flopping with an announcement via the Detroit News that the Dundee engine plant has been shut down, or rather, the line for the 1.4 being shut down and workers laid off and numbers weak, which I think you reported on as well (just the sales numbers though IIRC) and that for ALL smaller cars, their sales numbers are soft due to the drop in gas prices and of course, the economy too when the car's been barely out in full force.

Thad
11-20-2011, 07:54 PM
They are blowing the layoff story out of proportion. There were 30 people laid off to slow down the assembly line.

On the Abarth pricing, I'm out if it is $25k. Too much money for not enough of a car. There is too much competition at that price.

Mike S
11-20-2011, 08:52 PM
Right, I buy that.

I will probably buy one even tho it does not meet my Abarth expectations. Not really special but Fiat using the name they bought. It will be better than a standard sport. I hope people go racing and maybe we can even see a rally champion again and success on the track.

Some people may not like him but we need an Al Cosentino edition. FAZA Slave-o-matic.

ciddyguy
11-20-2011, 10:36 PM
They are blowing the layoff story out of proportion. There were 30 people laid off to slow down the assembly line.

On the Abarth pricing, I'm out if it is $25k. Too much money for not enough of a car. There is too much competition at that price.

Oh I know they are blowing this out of proportion in so far as the layoffs are concerned and simply, the whole thread was ridiculous and some from here, namely myself and SMJST both along with a few other to Fiat's defense.

I think Chris is saying the price, on good authority will be closer to 20K to start.

Fiat500USA
11-21-2011, 12:45 AM
Oh I know they are blowing this out of proportion in so far as the layoffs are concerned and simply, the whole thread was ridiculous and some from here, namely myself and SMJST both along with a few other to Fiat's defense.

I think Chris is saying the price, on good authority will be closer to 20K to start.

Yes, the haters are at it again. Trying to bring everything down.

As far as the price goes, I don't know what the exact price will be, but I think if it were under 24K they would have told me that. Naturally I would love it to be as inexpensive as possible, but there is a new transmission, new engine, bigger axles, new rear twist beam, twin intercoolers, turbo, bigger brakes, new seats, new front and rear bumpers specific to the US (just the bumpers can be millions of dollars) tons of equipment and tons of track testing. Plus our Prima/Sport was $20,350. I can't see the car being in the low 20s.

Mpath
11-21-2011, 02:07 PM
All good discussion about final pricing and power output for the Abarth. I'll certainly be in line to upgrade my Sport when the thing comes out, and might even wait for the Esseesse if that is ever produced here, depending on the final power output of the "regular" Abarth. And while some of you may cringe on the thought a $25 price point, most things being pretty relative, IMO it's still pretty decent considering that my north of $35K JCW Cooper has been worth every penny - one of the most fun FWD car I've ever owned.

But the deal breaker that may prevent my buying the Abarth is something no one's yet mentioned: the seating/driving position of the 500. IMO, it's almost "pedestrian" - certainly more upright, minivan-like compared to my aforementioend Cooper, and dimensionally comparable, my '86 911. I've never been able to get completely dialed in to an ideal driving position in my 500 Sport when the roads get twisty - this is just my opinion after 11,000km of driving and not a criticism as I love the thing. But I'm hoping the Abarth's driving position - and I'm hoping we do get those new seats in the final North American-spec - is more sport oriented.