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geeded
11-16-2011, 12:21 PM
I know there are going to be many, many questions so here is the thread and here is the first question.

The specs show KONI FSD shocks (hurrah!) but ONLY mention them for the front end. From what I've read of the Euro Abarth, it's the REAR FSDs that make a huge ride difference. So, does our Abarth have a matched set of 4 KONI FSD's or mismatched front FSDs & rear no-name shocks?

Cheers

(ABARTH - 160 hp @ 5500 rpms - 170 ft/lbs torque @ 2500 rpm, (porky) 2533 lbs.... meh, obviously they plan on an esseesse version...)

FYI, our supercharged 2006 MINI S, curb weight 2679 lbs, 168 hp @ 6000 & 162 lb/ft torque @ 4000 rpm). Tests put it at 0-60 @6.87. The Abarth should be similar or a little slower. (Note, this is the first gen MINI)

geeded
11-16-2011, 12:40 PM
I'll also ask the second question. Does the NA Abarth come with TTC?

Cheers

spindoc
11-16-2011, 12:43 PM
So, does our Abarth have a matched set of 4 KONI FSD's or mismatched front FSDs & rear no-name shocks?

Good question. I'll add the following:
1) Price?
2) Colors?
3) Built-in nav option?
4) Future edition (Esse Esse/Competizione) availability: date, specs, content (paddle shifters, etc.)?

blefevre
11-16-2011, 12:55 PM
Colors are listed in the official press release. Red, Black, White, Grey (the dark on on the standard fiats)

My biggest question: Why no Campovlo grey with the red flag roof? I can live with white with no flag, but I am a bit disappointed.
2) "Prima" edition?
3) Is the TTC a mechanical limited slip diff, or does is operate with brakes?

geeded
11-16-2011, 01:16 PM
3) Is the TTC a mechanical limited slip diff, or does is operate with brakes?

The TTC uses the brakes & overrides some of the electronic nannies.

geeded
11-16-2011, 01:27 PM
I'll also ask the second question. Does the NA Abarth come with TTC?

Cheers

Answer to my own question from full press release:


Maximum track handling with torque transfer control (ttc) system
Helping the driver to utilize the power of the new 1.4-liter MultiAir turbo engine is an Abarth-tuned torque transfer control (TTC) system. TTC is designed to control and transfer the engine's torque to the drive wheels for world-class performance and improved at-the-limit handling.

The TTC system in the 2012 Fiat 500 Abarth features a differential locking system that uses the mechanical differential in the c510 transmission to control torque via the electronic stability control (ESC) system. Utilizing ESC enables the 500 Abarth to transfer torque from a front wheel that slips, to one that grips.

In addition, when the Fiat 500 Abarth is in "sport" mode, TTC automatically adjusts the degree of differential locking depending on dynamic factors, including vehicle speed.

blefevre
11-16-2011, 01:36 PM
I read that too, but it is somewhat misleading. It says it uses the ESC, so probably the brakes. But then they refer to increasing the diff lock in sport mode. Does this just increase the braking force or is it actually an electronically controlled clutch pack in the diff? I am guessing that it works similar to the GTI's XDS, which is actually pretty nice for what it is. I haven't driven a GTI on the track though so I'm not sure how it does there.

geeded
11-16-2011, 03:25 PM
I read that too, but it is somewhat misleading. It says it uses the ESC, so probably the brakes. But then they refer to increasing the diff lock in sport mode. Does this just increase the braking force or is it actually an electronically controlled clutch pack in the diff? I am guessing that it works similar to the GTI's XDS, which is actually pretty nice for what it is. I haven't driven a GTI on the track though so I'm not sure how it does there.

There has been reams of questions & answers on this topic written on the Euro forums. Most having to do with what changes it makes to the normal ESC settings. They have a separate TTC button and no ALL OFF setting on the ESC I believe. Try a search of the British Abarhisti website but don't try to join. They're ... ah, very insular.

From what I understand it uses the brakes but changes the way the esc works..... YMMV

spindoc
11-16-2011, 06:29 PM
Another question: Why is the Abarth turning diameter so much bigger than that for a regular 500 (37.6 ft vs. 30.6 ft)?

blefevre
11-16-2011, 06:31 PM
It *could* be the new front control arms. They said the arms are a new design to allow for -1.5 degrees camber. It's possible that they had to cut the maximum steering angle because of weird geometry issues.

spindoc
11-16-2011, 06:36 PM
They said the arms are a new design to allow for -1.5 degrees camber.
Thanks. Where did you see this?

foqus
11-16-2011, 06:47 PM
Agree...I won't even start to get excited until I know pricing and colors. Why would they have an official reveal (presumably only 4 months from launch) and not give out a price? Don't they know that some people in the market for a car NOW may just assume it's going to be stupid expensive (like, over $22k base) and will buy a Fiesta instead? If they let us know the price is going to be reasonable (around $20K base), then some people (like me) will put off buying a car now, suffer for four months, and then buy an Abarth. I know there will be white and black (based on photos I've seen), but any other colors? I would like red with a matching red dash...

blefevre
11-16-2011, 06:50 PM
The negative camber was in the official press release. Autoblog has it. It also lists the colors. Red, Black, White, Grey (the dark grey that is on the standard Fiats). The spec sheet says nothing about colored dash options besides the standard black with red stitching.

geeded
11-16-2011, 06:54 PM
Colors...

White
Red
Gray
Black (metallic) extra cost for this one

Interior... Black, Black w/Red, Red w/black, cloth or leather

That's it

spindoc
11-16-2011, 06:57 PM
The negative camber was in the official press release. Autoblog has it.
Got it, thanks again. Lots of info there, including answers to some of my previous questions. Too bad they're not offering the Campovolo Grey.

Chris
11-16-2011, 07:32 PM
Agree...I won't even start to get excited until I know pricing and colors. Why would they have an official reveal (presumably only 4 months from launch) and not give out a price? Don't they know that some people in the market for a car NOW may just assume it's going to be stupid expensive (like, over $22k base) and will buy a Fiesta instead? If they let us know the price is going to be reasonable (around $20K base), then some people (like me) will put off buying a car now, suffer for four months, and then buy an Abarth. I know there will be white and black (based on photos I've seen), but any other colors? I would like red with a matching red dash...

As has been discussed elsewhere here, it's not all that common for a reveal at an auto show to NOT list the price. No way is this basing for $20k.

geeded
11-16-2011, 07:36 PM
As has been discussed elsewhere here, it's not all that common for a reveal at an auto show to NOT list the price. No way is this basing for $20k.

Agreed. I do think that they will slot it just (& I mean JUST) below the MINI S though. After looking at the standard equip list (slim), this seems likely.

Felnus
11-16-2011, 08:08 PM
Agreed. I do think that they will slot it just (& I mean JUST) below the MINI S though. After looking at the standard equip list (slim), this seems likely.

I still believe a $22,900 base price is the way to go. The Mini Cooper S base price is $23,800 without a number of things the Abarth will have standard so comparably equipped the Abarth will undercut it on price nearly as much as is the case with a base Mini and a 500 Sport. Also, for comparsion, a Mazdaspeed 3 has a base price of $24,000. The Fiat can't be more expensive than either of these established hot hatchs.

SeaDawg
11-16-2011, 08:30 PM
Agree...I won't even start to get excited until I know pricing and colors. Why would they have an official reveal (presumably only 4 months from launch) and not give out a price? Don't they know that some people in the market for a car NOW may just assume it's going to be stupid expensive (like, over $22k base) and will buy a Fiesta instead? If they let us know the price is going to be reasonable (around $20K base), then some people (like me) will put off buying a car now, suffer for four months, and then buy an Abarth. I know there will be white and black (based on photos I've seen), but any other colors? I would like red with a matching red dash...

It's been a year so my memory may not serve me well, but I believe Fiat didn't post prices for the regular 500 when it debuted at whatever auto show it was last November either. It's very frustrating but marketing plays these games all the time.

Based on the spec sheets posted on the blog website the colors will be black, white, red and grigio. No color exclusive to the Abarth....that'll probably go over like the proverbial chocolate covered banana in the punchbowl with some people too.

I would personally expect it to be MORE than $22,000 base. More like $24,900 or so...of course since we're all speculating, your guess is as good as mine.

fredfrey
11-16-2011, 08:34 PM
The Metallic black is exclusive to this car I believe. In Europe Abarths started out as white ONLY for the first few years.

SeaDawg
11-16-2011, 09:02 PM
The Metallic black is exclusive to this car I believe. In Europe Abarths started out as white ONLY for the first few years.

You may be correct. I thought the regular Fiat black was a metallic, but the one picture of the black Abarth I observed was pretty heavily flaked. I saw somewhere else that it is like the Blanco Perla and Rosso Brillante...extra $$$.

I'm in the camp that would have prefered the Campagnolo Gray for the exclusive one.

blefevre
11-18-2011, 12:16 AM
To answer our questions on the diff.

http://rumors.automobilemag.com/los-angeles-2011-six-things-we-learned-about-the-fiat-500-abarth-89141.html

It IS a real limited slip. On top of the control on the diff it can still brake each wheel. Looks like it's the best of both worlds.

geeded
11-18-2011, 01:14 AM
Chris,

If you're out there, maybe you can answer this question as it seems to have been glossed over. Does the NA Abarth have a matched set of 4 KONI FSD's or mismatched front FSDs & rear no-name shocks?

Cheers

demonpoodle
11-18-2011, 11:31 AM
i'm sure it wont get the same gas milage as the current 500s on the road but has anyone seen any numbers or estimates yet? I'm curious how much milage would drop for the extra power. Since I havent bought mine yet and am going to be using it as a commuter car, if its that much lower i'll stick with the sport.

CTTECH
11-18-2011, 12:16 PM
I know there are going to be many, many questions so here is the thread and here is the first question.

The specs show KONI FSD shocks (hurrah!) but ONLY mention them for the front end. From what I've read of the Euro Abarth, it's the REAR FSDs that make a huge ride difference. So, does our Abarth have a matched set of 4 KONI FSD's or mismatched front FSDs & rear no-name shocks?

Cheers

(ABARTH - 160 hp @ 5500 rpms - 170 ft/lbs torque @ 2500 rpm, (porky) 2533 lbs.... meh, obviously they plan on an esseesse version...)

FYI, our supercharged 2006 MINI S, curb weight 2679 lbs, 168 hp @ 6000 & 162 lb/ft torque @ 4000 rpm). Tests put it at 0-60 @6.87. The Abarth should be similar or a little slower. (Note, this is the first gen MINI)

Just curious, why would the Abarth be slightly slower than your 2006 MCS? The Abarth has a slightly better hp/lb ratio (Abarth=15.83 vs MCS=15.94) and it also has more torque at a lower rpm.

Reaperman
11-18-2011, 05:28 PM
To answer our questions on the diff.

http://rumors.automobilemag.com/los-angeles-2011-six-things-we-learned-about-the-fiat-500-abarth-89141.html

It IS a real limited slip. On top of the control on the diff it can still brake each wheel. Looks like it's the best of both worlds.

Thanks for that. It's a bit of a surprise, and I'll forgive them some of whatever they charge for the car because of it.

geeded
11-18-2011, 05:51 PM
Just curious, why would the Abarth be slightly slower than your 2006 MCS? The Abarth has a slightly better hp/lb ratio (Abarth=15.83 vs MCS=15.94) and it also has more torque at a lower rpm.

Very simple. I looked at the figures and guessed. Guessed wrong...I knew it would be close. The MINI was fun at the orig hp but as soon as the warranty expired, we had a supercharger reduction pulley, exhaust, CAI, etc installated. Now cranking between 185 195 (again a guess) and a real hoot. 127k and still going strong. I'm hoping for the same feeling with the Abarth, the 2nd gen MINI just didn't do it for me.

Cheers

SeaDawg
11-18-2011, 06:28 PM
i'm sure it wont get the same gas milage as the current 500s on the road but has anyone seen any numbers or estimates yet? I'm curious how much milage would drop for the extra power. Since I havent bought mine yet and am going to be using it as a commuter car, if its that much lower i'll stick with the sport.

If you drive it SANELY it should be pretty close to the regular 1.4, but if you're going to do that, you might as well just buy the Sport to start with!:)

CTTECH
11-18-2011, 08:37 PM
Very simple. I looked at the figures and guessed. Guessed wrong...I knew it would be close. The MINI was fun at the orig hp but as soon as the warranty expired, we had a supercharger reduction pulley, exhaust, CAI, etc installated. Now cranking between 185 195 (again a guess) and a real hoot. 127k and still going strong. I'm hoping for the same feeling with the Abarth, the 2nd gen MINI just didn't do it for me.

Cheers

Oh ok. I was just wondering if I missed something. Every MCS owner I know says the exact same thing you do about the 2nd gen vs. 1st gen. They all like the 1st gen better.

smoove7410
11-18-2011, 09:18 PM
So we don't get the manumatic option? Say goodbye to the LA market, lol.

Felnus
11-18-2011, 09:25 PM
So we don't get the manumatic option? Say goodbye to the LA market, lol.

If they can't drive a stick, they don't deserve an Abarth anyway:devilish:

SeaDawg
11-18-2011, 09:45 PM
If they can't drive a stick, they don't deserve an Abarth anyway:devilish:

Agree!:friendly_wink:

Fiat500USA
11-18-2011, 11:12 PM
To answer our questions on the diff.

http://rumors.automobilemag.com/los-angeles-2011-six-things-we-learned-about-the-fiat-500-abarth-89141.html

It IS a real limited slip. On top of the control on the diff it can still brake each wheel. Looks like it's the best of both worlds.

There are some inaccuracies in this article. The 2012 Fiat 500 Abarth has an open differential, the brakes are used to increase the torque bias. I also asked and was told about the differential on launch day and confirmed it today with the Vehicle Platform Manager.

The other thing I'll say is that there are higher horsepower versions in Italy that are running the same transmission. Chrysler and Fiat SpA work closely together and they will do whatever makes sense for the market.

Fiat500USA
11-18-2011, 11:34 PM
Chris,

If you're out there, maybe you can answer this question as it seems to have been glossed over. Does the NA Abarth have a matched set of 4 KONI FSD's or mismatched front FSDs & rear no-name shocks?

Cheers

Hi geeded,

As luck would happen, Joe Grace and I took the same flight back to Detroit today, and I asked him your question. The Abarth uses the front FSD shocks only in the front, but rest assured this is not a mismatched, cheesy set up. There are over a million development miles including heavy duty track testing. It was assumed this car would be used as a club racer and testing was severe. They are very proud of the suspension development on this car and everyone grins from ear to ear when anyone mentions it. They keep saying, "wait until you drive it... " :)

geeded
11-19-2011, 12:01 AM
Oh ok. I was just wondering if I missed something. Every MCS owner I know says the exact same thing you do about the 2nd gen vs. 1st gen. They all like the 1st gen better.

Yep, we do prefer the 1st gen. There's a reason for that. :)

geeded
11-19-2011, 12:18 AM
Hi geeded,

As luck would happen, Joe Grace and I took the same flight back to Detroit today, and I asked him your question. The Abarth uses the front FSD shocks only in the front, but rest assured this is not a mismatched, cheesy set up. There are over a million development miles including heavy duty track testing. It was assumed this car would be used as a club racer and testing was severe. They are very proud of the suspension development on this car and everyone grins from ear to ear when anyone mentions it. They keep saying, "wait until you drive it... " :)

Thanks for the quick answer. I certainly appreciate it. Do you know if the rear shocks from the Euro version will interchange with the NA version? If so, I can always get a matching set for the back if the rear's a little bouncy.

Couple of quick questions. First, did you hear it run and if so, how does the exhaust sound? (subjective I know) and will the warranty be the same as the normal 500?

Hope you had a great time. A lot of jealous people back here wishing we were you :)

Cheers

I love pizza
11-19-2011, 12:45 PM
Thanks for the quick answer. I certainly appreciate it. Do you know if the rear shocks from the Euro version will interchange with the NA version? If so, I can always get a matching set for the back if the rear's a little bouncy.

Couple of quick questions. First, did you hear it run and if so, how does the exhaust sound? (subjective I know) and will the warranty be the same as the normal 500?

Hope you had a great time. A lot of jealous people back here wishing we were you :)

Cheers

Before the LA Show the Abarth was at the massive new Motor Village Fiat dealership in LA. Two videos of the USA version exhaust were posted on the Fiat USA Facebook page. Take a look, they're the only two pictures on this link that have a time associated with them signifying its a video.

http://www.facebook.com/FiatUSA?sk=photos

SeaDawg
11-19-2011, 02:38 PM
Chris V. or anyone attending the L.A. auto show...is the Grigio on the displayed Abarth the SAME Grigio as the standard 500. I don't know if it's the lights or what, but the Abarth Grigio looks like a cross between a Grigio and an Argento.

geeded
11-19-2011, 06:21 PM
Before the LA Show the Abarth was at the massive new Motor Village Fiat dealership in LA. Two videos of the USA version exhaust were posted on the Fiat USA Facebook page. Take a look, they're the only two pictures on this link that have a time associated with them signifying its a video.

http://www.facebook.com/FiatUSA?sk=photos

Thanks much. It least I know it doesn't sound like a Kia. Were you there to actually hear it run?

Cheers

sjmst
11-19-2011, 07:29 PM
http://www.fiatusa.com/abarth/post_event/pdf/abarth_ebrochure.pdf

Mini Copper: 146.6 in.

Abarth: 144.6

The Abarth is almost the same length as a Mini Cooper. That means it will not look tiny or toy like. I want.

Felnus
11-19-2011, 09:14 PM
I'm not sure those numbers are correct, A 500 is a lot more than 2 inches shorter than a Mini.

SeaDawg
11-19-2011, 09:18 PM
I'm not sure those numbers are correct, A 500 is a lot more than 2 inches shorter than a Mini.

You have to remember the Abarth has an 'extended' nose due to the intercooler intakes and probably the extra underhood plumbing.

sjmst
11-19-2011, 09:20 PM
You have to remember the Abarth has an 'extended' nose due to the intercooler intakes and probably the extra underhood plumbing.

Exactly

Felnus
11-19-2011, 09:30 PM
Yeah but five inches?!

geeded
11-19-2011, 10:00 PM
Yeah but five inches?!

Sorry, forgive me for this.....but I just have to...

"That's what SHE said!"

Sorry :)

grapefish
11-19-2011, 10:23 PM
I read somewhere in the many press releases/articles about the Abarth that the front facia is 4" longer than the standard... so... yes? =)

geeded
11-19-2011, 10:30 PM
I checked the specs and, believe it or not, the Abarth is actually 1/2" LONGER than a 1st Gen MINI S..... (narrower though).

Cheers

Felnus
11-19-2011, 10:41 PM
I begin to wonder if it won't look a bit awkward in person with that much extra schnoz hanging off the front end...

Fiat500USA
11-20-2011, 12:04 AM
Chris V. or anyone attending the L.A. auto show...is the Grigio on the displayed Abarth the SAME Grigio as the standard 500. I don't know if it's the lights or what, but the Abarth Grigio looks like a cross between a Grigio and an Argento.

The grigio is the same, that will probably be the color I get ;)

Fiat500USA
11-20-2011, 12:31 AM
Thanks for the quick answer. I certainly appreciate it. Do you know if the rear shocks from the Euro version will interchange with the NA version? If so, I can always get a matching set for the back if the rear's a little bouncy.

Couple of quick questions. First, did you hear it run and if so, how does the exhaust sound? (subjective I know) and will the warranty be the same as the normal 500?

Hope you had a great time. A lot of jealous people back here wishing we were you :)

Cheers

There is a question if the Euro Koni FSD kit has rear shocks featuring the FSD technology. I'll look into this. By the way, it is common to have what would appear to a laymen as mis-matched shocks, e.g., lets say gas shocks in the front of a car and regular hydraulic shocks in the rear. It surprised me when I first came across this.

The exhaust sounds awesome, however, it is not finalized and is still undergoing evaluation. I believe the 2 versions of the exhaust are at the show.

PS. it is one of the reasons why the HP figures are still at estimated.

Thanks for your wishes. My goal with Fiat500USA.com and this forum is to try to peal the curtain back, take you behind the scenes and share the experiences I've been lucky enough to have.

Fiat500USA
11-20-2011, 12:55 AM
http://www.fiatusa.com/abarth/post_event/pdf/abarth_ebrochure.pdf

Mini Copper: 146.6 in.

Abarth: 144.6

The Abarth is almost the same length as a Mini Cooper. That means it will not look tiny or toy like. I want.


The US Abarth is about 10 mm longer than the Euro version, due to the front impact requirements. The car is BAD ASS, no doubt about it. It is in your face with the stretched nose - very smooth and shapely. I really love my Prima, but after seeing the Abarth, I will probably give it up to get the Abarth.

SeaDawg
11-20-2011, 01:48 AM
The car is BAD ASS, no doubt about it. It is in your face with the stretched nose - very smooth and shapely. I really love my Prima, but after seeing the Abarth, I will probably give it up to get the Abarth.

Ya' THINK?!:smug:

geeded
11-20-2011, 12:31 PM
Chris (or anyone),

Is the warranty/coverage going to be the same as the regular Fiats? I can't imagine it wouldn't, but someone brought it up. I can't get it out of my head and would like to put it to bed. :)

Thanks much

Fiat500USA
11-20-2011, 06:06 PM
I know the oil is different - 5w40 synthetic. I'll add the warranty question to my list ;)

blefevre
11-20-2011, 09:54 PM
There are some inaccuracies in this article. The 2012 Fiat 500 Abarth has an open differential, the brakes are used to increase the torque bias. I also asked and was told about the differential on launch day and confirmed it today with the Vehicle Platform Manager.

The other thing I'll say is that there are higher horsepower versions in Italy that are running the same transmission. Chrysler and Fiat SpA work closely together and they will do whatever makes sense for the market.

This makes me sad. So it's just the boring wheel braking. I guess we can't ask for everything.

geeded
11-21-2011, 07:14 PM
So...

After reading everything I can get my hands on, factoring in Chris' info on price, divide by the way FIAT has structured prices so far and my semi-informed take is that the NA Abarth will start at $24,500 (plus dest).

That's about a grand more than I expected and since that is more than the base of the MINI S, I sure hope they know what they are doing. I will, of course, pay it but others may not. Anyone disagree?

Cheers

blefevre
11-28-2011, 11:12 AM
I think you are correct. If they make it "limited production" I think they can get away with it. If not.....good luck.

Reaperman
11-28-2011, 01:38 PM
After reading everything I can get my hands on, factoring in Chris' info on price, divide by the way FIAT has structured prices so far and my semi-informed take is that the NA Abarth will start at $24,500 (plus dest).

That's about a grand more than I expected and since that is more than the base of the MINI S, I sure hope they know what they are doing. I will, of course, pay it but others may not. Anyone disagree?

Price guesses seem a bit high from talk on here, but that wouldn't be entirely consistent with UK pricing. According to carpages.co.uk, the Abarth w/Esseesse kit still comes in less expensive than an MX-5, or a Cooper S. I'm not saying that they won't overcharge when they bring it here, but to me the whole point of the Abarth is to have a *budget* screamer. If FIAT USA overprices it, that could well ruin it all for me.

UK Price comparisons:
Mazda MX-5 17,990
Mini Cooper S 18.015
Abarth 500 14,452 (add 2,500 for esseesse)

I have not looked into the prices in other countries due to the language barrier.

Guest
11-29-2011, 08:49 PM
So, hearing conflicting accounts... Will we be getting the Grey colour option????

How much do we think for leather?

How much for the nice wheels?

Thanks

Fiat500USA
11-30-2011, 03:03 AM
So, hearing conflicting accounts... Will we be getting the Grey colour option????

How much do we think for leather?

How much for the nice wheels?

Thanks

Pricing hasn't been announced, but the colors have. Red, black, white and grey - the grey is Grigio - a metallic color, not the grey available on the Euro Abarth.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-hLYNTFsOyg0/TsmZkE8CrxI/AAAAAAAAKNc/XeksewoL030/s640/Fiat500USA.com-Fiat_500_Abarth_Unveil_pics%252520024.JPG

Bruce Winter
11-30-2011, 10:59 AM
WOW I thought only the black was metallic. So there are two metallic colors, black and grey?

blefevre
11-30-2011, 11:39 AM
The color selection is so awful. I wish I could see the grey with the red mirrors and abarth stripe, that could be interesting.

Bruce Winter
11-30-2011, 12:22 PM
Better yet. What about red wheels, with the red mirrors, and red stripe, and black with red stiching interior, or the black red combination leather interior?

Jim McKenzie
11-30-2011, 12:54 PM
I have seen a few photos showing Abarth's in yellow and with automatic transmissions...the Ferrari Tribute I think is the specific model. So having these only in four colors and only with a 5 speed is a huge disappointment.

I am going to be working in Boston and fighting stop and go rush hour traffic with a stick is sheer foolishness. (I know...I am driving a five speed Mazda 3 now). If Fiat stays with these choices, they lose one sale for sure. (click image to resize)

653

Fiat500USA
11-30-2011, 01:32 PM
The color selection is so awful. I wish I could see the grey with the red mirrors and abarth stripe, that could be interesting.

For whatever reason, the color selection is also limited in Europe. There is a red. 2 whites , the grey and black. The other colors you see are for the 'specials' like Tributo Ferrari and others.

Fiat500USA
11-30-2011, 01:37 PM
Price guesses seem a bit high from talk on here, but that wouldn't be entirely consistent with UK pricing. According to carpages.co.uk, the Abarth w/Esseesse kit still comes in less expensive than an MX-5, or a Cooper S. I'm not saying that they won't overcharge when they bring it here, but to me the whole point of the Abarth is to have a *budget* screamer. If FIAT USA overprices it, that could well ruin it all for me.

UK Price comparisons:
Mazda MX-5 17,990
Mini Cooper S 18.015
Abarth 500 14,452 (add 2,500 for esseesse)

I have not looked into the prices in other countries due to the language barrier.

The thing is Abarths have never been inexpensive or budget friendly. The parts and the cars have always been at a premium. Like all desirable products from Italy, the Italians know how to get their money.

Reaperman
11-30-2011, 01:53 PM
I've checked a few spots, and I'm noticing that the fixed transparent roof seems not to be an option for the USA version (it is in the uk). That's an item that really appealed to me, since it's weathertight, and lets the feeling of space in without adding 'power sunroof' levels of weight or headroom encroachment.

Has anybody seen this option listed anywhere? Or can we confirm that it indeed isn't an option?

Also, has anybody had a sit in one of these yet? are the seats lower? With a stiffer suspension, I can picture my head running out of space on bumps with the powered sunroof installed and 500-height seats.


The thing is Abarths have never been inexpensive or budget friendly. The parts and the cars have always been at a premium. Like all desirable products from Italy, the Italians know how to get their money.
I suppose it's possible historically (I honestly have only a passing knowledge of Abarth history), but is 'current Abarth' charging prices over their competition in any major market? (again, I've only looked at UK)

And as far as the limited-color talk goes, the dark brown with light brown decals might be a neat thing to look at. I'd probably still go with black, though.

geeded
11-30-2011, 03:59 PM
For whatever reason, the color selection is also limited in Europe. There is a red. 2 whites , the grey and black. The other colors you see are for the 'specials' like Tributo Ferrari and others.

Yeah, I'd have been VERY happy if they had just allowed the Bianco Pearla. I know the Abarth's in Europe have it and I thought ours having it was a no-brainer. I guess I'll just have to get the white but it is just so....white. <sigh>. At least it has a manual.

luke_vibert_uk
12-04-2011, 12:11 PM
The color selection is so awful. I wish I could see the grey with the red mirrors and abarth stripe, that could be interesting.

Does this help?

Campovolo Grey, Red Stripes and Mirror Caps, Skydome and Esseesse kit...

The grey is 'shiny' and not matt.

The Skydome and fixed roof do offer extra headroom but not huge amounts. I am 6'2" and fit fine .

Iif you are going to go for an option, I would go for the Skydome Option as it opens as a 'sun roof' or retracting all the way back, the fixed being that, fixed. The only downside to the Skydome is that it can be noisy when travelling at speed.

blefevre
12-05-2011, 11:39 AM
Does this help?

Campovolo Grey, Red Stripes and Mirror Caps, Skydome and Esseesse kit...

The grey is 'shiny' and not matt.

The Skydome and fixed roof do offer extra headroom but not huge amounts. I am 6'2" and fit fine .

Iif you are going to go for an option, I would go for the Skydome Option as it opens as a 'sun roof' or retracting all the way back, the fixed being that, fixed. The only downside to the Skydome is that it can be noisy when travelling at speed.

That is the color I want. The problem is we aren't getting Campovolo Grey OR the sky dome. The grey we get is the really dark (boring) grey.

Fiat500USA
12-05-2011, 12:04 PM
I know there are going to be many, many questions so here is the thread and here is the first question.

The specs show KONI FSD shocks (hurrah!) but ONLY mention them for the front end. From what I've read of the Euro Abarth, it's the REAR FSDs that make a huge ride difference. So, does our Abarth have a matched set of 4 KONI FSD's or mismatched front FSDs & rear no-name shocks?

Cheers

(ABARTH - 160 hp @ 5500 rpms - 170 ft/lbs torque @ 2500 rpm, (porky) 2533 lbs.... meh, obviously they plan on an esseesse version...)

FYI, our supercharged 2006 MINI S, curb weight 2679 lbs, 168 hp @ 6000 & 162 lb/ft torque @ 4000 rpm). Tests put it at 0-60 @6.87. The Abarth should be similar or a little slower. (Note, this is the first gen MINI)

Just got some more info from the Abarth Development Team for you.

The new 2012 Fiat 500 Abarth is lightweight and has a 64/36 front-to-rear weight distribution making the benefits of FSD minimal. In addition, adding FSD shocks in the rear would have required a rebound travel restriction, and therefore actually reduced ride quality.

Let me know if you (or anyone else) have more questions, I'm working on something... ;)

blefevre
12-05-2011, 12:26 PM
Just got some more info from the Abarth Development Team for you.

The new 2012 Fiat 500 Abarth is lightweight and has a 64/36 front-to-rear weight distribution making the benefits of FSD minimal. In addition, adding FSD shocks in the rear would have required a rebound travel restriction, and therefore actually reduced ride quality.

Let me know if you (or anyone else) have more questions, I'm working on something... ;)

Great info there!

Was it the development team that told you TTC just uses the brakes? I am still finding a lot of conflicting information on the internet. What confuses me the most is the press release saying that sport mode can "control the amount of lock" in the diff. Does this simply mean they pound on the brakes even more?

Fiat500USA
12-05-2011, 01:16 PM
Great info there!

Was it the development team that told you TTC just uses the brakes? I am still finding a lot of conflicting information on the internet. What confuses me the most is the press release saying that sport mode can "control the amount of lock" in the diff. Does this simply mean they pound on the brakes even more?

Yes, from the man himself ;)

I wouldn't put it as pounding on the brakes. It is a sophisticated system that works well. Slowing the wheel without traction increases the torque bias in the differential. Sending the power to the wheel with more traction.

The press has misquoted or misunderstood what TTC is.

geeded
12-05-2011, 01:48 PM
It is a sophisticated system that works well. Slowing the wheel without traction increases the torque bias in the differential. Sending the power to the wheel with more traction.

The press has misquoted or misunderstood what TTC is.

It is a system that has created many a long thread on the Euro forums. It also appears that it is being activated in a different manner here than in Europe. This is the way I understand it (Chris please correct if incorrect).

Europe:

- Separate button for TTC activation, defaults to OFF every time the car is started.

- ESC goes into partial mode when TTC activated.

- ESC on European Abarth cannot be fully turned off.

North American Abarth:

- TTC activates when in Sport BUT car retains full ESC? (Really not sure of this as it appears murky and would appreciate clarification)

- TTC activates when the ESC is switched to Partial ESC or ESC OFF.

- No separate ON/Off for TTC

Not sure why the difference, but from reading the Euro threads, it appears that customers there would prefer the ability to activate the TTC AND/OR (in their case) partially defeat the ESC.

YMMV

Cheers

luke_vibert_uk
12-05-2011, 01:55 PM
When activating TTC on Euro Spec cars, the Stability Control System is turned OFF.

So when the TTC button light is on (button underneath gear stick), Stability Control is off.:friendly_wink:

Hope that helps.

geeded
12-05-2011, 02:06 PM
When activating TTC on Euro Spec cars, the Stability Control System is turned OFF.

So when the TTC button light is on (button underneath gear stick), Stability Control is off.:friendly_wink:

Hope that helps.


Thanks, post updated to reflect your info. Cheers

Max
12-05-2011, 02:26 PM
That is the color I want. The problem is we aren't getting Campovolo Grey OR the sky dome. The grey we get is the really dark (boring) grey.

I would want that color too.
Another color I would like to have the ABARTH in would be the Mocha Latte with some darker brown ABARTH stripes (if I decided to put/keep stripes) and Brown Saddle leather interior. Its so non subtle and would probably not be too many of them in that color.

Are you or anyone else certain that there will be no Sky Dome option? I'd be a little surprised if the America's chose to skip on a cushy option.

Max

luke_vibert_uk
12-05-2011, 02:40 PM
Thanks, post updated to reflect your info. Cheers

No worries

As I understand it, TTC controls by braking with the brakes so the engine still has power, opposed to braking by cutting engine power which ESP does.

This means you regain control, but retain engine power for exiting the corner.

I've read a couple of times that some guys who have track day'd their 500 with TTC 'on' have overheated their brakes (Pads and Lines/ Fluid) after a few vigorous laps. Not sure how you would quantify this versus a normal track day run...but be worth considering as the TTC braking is working harder.

TBH though the Traction Control isn't 'that' intrusive.

blefevre
12-05-2011, 03:05 PM
I would want that color too.
Another color I would like to have the ABARTH in would be the Mocha Latte with some darker brown ABARTH stripes (if I decided to put/keep stripes) and Brown Saddle leather interior. Its so non subtle and would probably not be too many of them in that color.

Are you or anyone else certain that there will be no Sky Dome option? I'd be a little surprised if the America's chose to skip on a cushy option.

Max

Well we get the power sunroof. I guess I thought Sky Dome in Europe was the fixed glass roof, which is what I would prefer.


No worries

As I understand it, TTC controls by braking with the brakes so the engine still has power, opposed to braking by cutting engine power which ESP does.

This means you regain control, but retain engine power for exiting the corner.

I've read a couple of times that some guys who have track day'd their 500 with TTC 'on' have overheated their brakes (Pads and Lines/ Fluid) after a few vigorous laps. Not sure how you would quantify this versus a normal track day run...but be worth considering as the TTC braking is working harder.

TBH though the Traction Control isn't 'that' intrusive.

Thanks! This is exactly why I keep asking these questions. The local track here is in full sun and always runs very hot. I am worried about burning up pads after a couple track days. It's no big deal because brakes are cheap/easy to replace, just a little annoying if they don't last that long.

luke_vibert_uk
12-05-2011, 04:00 PM
I guess I thought Sky Dome in Europe was the fixed glass roof, which is what I would prefer.

The UK specs list 'Skydome' as the opening/ fully retractable glazed roof panel.... 'Fixed Glass Roof' is precisely that.

VTEC Mini
12-05-2011, 08:19 PM
I still believe a $22,900 base price is the way to go. The Mini Cooper S base price is $23,800 without a number of things the Abarth will have standard so comparably equipped the Abarth will undercut it on price nearly as much as is the case with a base Mini and a 500 Sport. Also, for comparsion, a Mazdaspeed 3 has a base price of $24,000. The Fiat can't be more expensive than either of these established hot hatchs.I agree especially how Fiat sales have started out.


Very simple. I looked at the figures and guessed. Guessed wrong...I knew it would be close. The MINI was fun at the orig hp but as soon as the warranty expired, we had a supercharger reduction pulley, exhaust, CAI, etc installed. Now cranking between 185 195 (again a guess) and a real hoot. 127k and still going strong. I'm hoping for the same feeling with the Abarth, the 2nd gen MINI just didn't do it for me.

Cheers


Oh ok. I was just wondering if I missed something. Every MCS owner I know says the exact same thing you do about the 2nd gen vs. 1st gen. They all like the 1st gen better.
My '04 Cooper S had the pulley, intake, exhaust and a piggy back chip but mine was a serious POS. The "first gen" (R53) did capture the ruff and tumble and look of the Classic Mini. When mine ran it was a fantastic car and an absolute pleasure to drive. I sold mine three years ago and I miss it to this very day- but I don't miss how much it broke down. When the "second gen" came out (R56), I test drove it. It lost everything MINI/ Mini about it. It felt like a BMW (Had many of those as rentals when the MINI was in the shop). It was too smooth and it lost that MINI look. Now MINI has added these SUV looking things and have totally went in the wrong direction.

So...

After reading everything I can get my hands on, factoring in Chris' info on price, divide by the way FIAT has structured prices so far and my semi-informed take is that the NA Abarth will start at $24,500 (plus dest).

That's about a grand more than I expected and since that is more than the base of the MINI S, I sure hope they know what they are doing. I will, of course, pay it but others may not. Anyone disagree?

CheersI don't think they will cost that much. Fiat is already struggling to get off the ground and with an Abarth at that price you can (just for an example) get a Mazda 3 Speed with more practicality and 50 more HP for the same money. Heading down the MINI path you can pick up an S with at least one package for that same amount of money also. Another thing to consider is the U.S. Abarth base will not have the decals, the upgraded rims and tires, the leather interior and I think maybe the heated seats and mirrors. You add those in, and it could go higher than the equivalent "S" in which it would have a real hard sell. It's a tuff call right now but pricing is do out after January so we will see. I however, will never buy another MINI so for a small hot hatch this pretty much my only option. If they prove just as trouble some as a MINI I will just keep my CR-Z.

geeded
12-05-2011, 09:30 PM
I don't think they will cost that much. Fiat is already struggling to get off the ground and with an Abarth at that price you can (just for an example) get a Mazda 3 Speed with more practicality and 50 more HP for the same money. Heading down the MINI path you can pick up an S with at least one package for that same amount of money also. Another thing to consider is the U.S. Abarth base will not have the decals, the upgraded rims and tires, the leather interior and I think maybe the heated seats and mirrors. You add those in, and it could go higher than the equivalent "S" in which it would have a real hard sell. It's a tuff call right now but pricing is do out after January so we will see.

I totally agree but I was "guesstimating" with the info at the time. I'm beginning to think they aren't THAT stupid. I've said over and over that to price this car above the base price of the MINI S is fatal. I think that the correct price, with the way it is equipped, would be $22,500 but a more likely price is $23,500 (their prices so far have ended in 500). If they get greedy and go for the quick buck, then $24,500 and a sharp jump is sales (for the Abarthists) and then the sales will fall off a cliff. Like I said, I hope they aren't THAT stupid. The sales climate is what it is.

Cheers

VTEC Mini
12-06-2011, 01:30 AM
I totally agree but I was "guesstimating" with the info at the time. I'm beginning to think they aren't THAT stupid. I've said over and over that to price this car above the base price of the MINI S is fatal. I think that the correct price, with the way it is equipped, would be $22,500 but a more likely price is $23,500 (their prices so far have ended in 500). If they get greedy and go for the quick buck, then $24,500 and a sharp jump is sales (for the Abarthists) and then the sales will fall off a cliff. Like I said, I hope they aren't THAT stupid. The sales climate is what it is.

CheersI agree 100%

blefevre
12-06-2011, 11:27 AM
I have another question to add to the list.

Functionality of the spoiler and rear diffuser. Aesthetics, or functional?

luke_vibert_uk
12-06-2011, 12:42 PM
Aesthetics...unless you go down the route of using an Asseto Corse spoiler which may provide some effect.

Diffuser is a plastic panel with a grill moulded in it to hide the exhaust behind.

txdesign
12-06-2011, 11:51 PM
Pricing hasn't been announced, but the colors have. Red, black, white and grey - the grey is Grigio - a metallic color, not the grey available on the Euro Abarth.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-hLYNTFsOyg0/TsmZkE8CrxI/AAAAAAAAKNc/XeksewoL030/s640/Fiat500USA.com-Fiat_500_Abarth_Unveil_pics%252520024.JPG

Is this the US grey?

blefevre
12-06-2011, 11:55 PM
Yes, that is the US grey on an US Abarth.

Edit: Your first picture is the US Abarth. The attached one is not.

luke_vibert_uk
12-07-2011, 05:28 AM
Its difficult to tell from the images but I think the colour is more likely to be "Record Grey" (UK Market Name).

There is abother grey in addition to the Campovolo Grey and Record - "Pista Grey".

"Record" is a recent addition and is being used on more recent A500's and the Duo Campovolo/Pista Duo Tone finish being used on 500C's.

IIRC the Record grey is Metalic/Pearl, the Pista more of a stanard paint finish.

blefevre
12-07-2011, 11:18 AM
Its difficult to tell from the images but I think the colour is more likely to be "Record Grey" (UK Market Name).

There is abother grey in addition to the Campovolo Grey and Record - "Pista Grey".

"Record" is a recent addition and is being used on more recent A500's and the Duo Campovolo/Pista Duo Tone finish being used on 500C's.

IIRC the Record grey is Metalic/Pearl, the Pista more of a stanard paint finish.

It's called "Grigio" here. It's the same as the grey currently offered on the base 500's here in the states.

Fiat500USA
12-07-2011, 11:49 AM
It's called "Grigio" here. It's the same as the grey currently offered on the base 500's here in the states.

Yep, same grey. The color looks different in the image.

GileraWarren
12-15-2011, 10:48 PM
I would guess because of bigger tires and slightly lower suspension causing more interference between body and tires at full lock. I have a question also. Do the Abarths come with heated seats?

GileraWarren
12-15-2011, 10:50 PM
OK I didn't get that first post right. I'll try to do better next time.

SeaDawg
01-12-2012, 10:45 AM
So, I take it those gorgeous RED cloth seats and RED 17" wheels will NOT be offered in the U.S.?

blefevre
01-12-2012, 11:29 AM
So, I take it those gorgeous RED cloth seats and RED 17" wheels will NOT be offered in the U.S.?

Sadly it's not on the options sheet so probably not. I would love red cloth seats but the black with red stripe is still pretty cool.

epb
01-12-2012, 05:22 PM
I would guess because of bigger tires and slightly lower suspension causing more interference between body and tires at full lock. I have a question also. Do the Abarths come with heated seats?

Doesn't appear to, problem for the same odd reason the other manual transmission cars don't get them.