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Grey65
05-09-2017, 12:11 PM
Does anyone know if there is a performance tune for the 500e? I have searched and have had no luck.

I'm looking to remove the 88mph limiter and hopefully get it to where it will release the power quicker....


Thanks,
Kevin.....

charrigan
05-09-2017, 12:45 PM
The 88mph limit is due to being at the max rpm of the drive unit. FCA capped the mph to prevent overspinning the drive unit. The low max speed is due to the extremely short final drive ratio to make it a more fun to drive city car.

There is no performance tune and due to the extremely small market for someone willing to modify the 500e don't expect anything to happen ever. The only performance tune I am aware of with any hybrid/BEV is the Nissan Leaf. NISMO actually offers a performance VCM tune for the japan only leaf. $1385 for the tune and shaves a full second off the 0-60 time.

Grey65
05-09-2017, 01:13 PM
Believe it or not I plan on Autocrossing the car and was hoping there was a tune. But I wasn't counting on one being out there for the exact reason you stated... Supply versus demand.... They don't sell many of these and of those how many people will want to make theirs go faster? Most would want better mpge's if anything. But I had to ask.....

Thanks,
Kevin.....

charrigan
05-09-2017, 01:41 PM
Believe it or not I plan on Autocrossing the car and was hoping there was a tune. But I wasn't counting on one being out there for the exact reason you stated... Supply versus demand.... They don't sell many of these and of those how many people will want to make theirs go faster? Most would want better mpge's if anything. But I had to ask.....

Thanks,
Kevin.....


I am in the same camp as you. I have been tuning and heavily modifiying cars for 15+ years. I don't plan on stopping with an EV. I hope to do some track days and auto-xing. There is a bmw shop in the bay area that regularly tracks their shop 500e.

I actually randomly found a company that offers a tuning box for the leaf and two other hybrids. The leaf tuning box has a 3kw power bump option they can add on. The tuning box is essentially a remapped throttle but I am not sure what signal they are modifying to squeeze out a couple extra kw. I reached out to them and offered myself up to be a guinea pig. I have a close friend who owns a dynapack so I can do dyno runs if needed.

as far as performance mods currently our only options are aero, wheels/tires, and suspension.

I have already designed a bracket for the rear torsion bar so I don't have to pay $300+ for the abarth brackets and the design can be tweaked to run up to a 28mm torsion bar safely.

rkw
05-09-2017, 02:24 PM
as far as performance mods currently our only options are aero, wheels/tires, and suspension.Also weight reduction.

Save 35 lbs with lightweight battery: http://www.fiat500usaforum.com/showthread.php?27501-Has-anyone-considered-a-lightweight-12v-battery&p=797388&viewfull=1#post797388
Save 75 lbs with rear seat delete: http://www.fiat500usaforum.com/showthread.php?27571-500e-Rear-Seat-Delete&p=797789&viewfull=1#post797789

Trunkout
05-09-2017, 02:45 PM
Also get a Madness Go Pedal!
But yeah I understand the mod thing... been at it for 3 decades!
If I had an e I would strip EVERY piece of EVERYTHING that I could to save weight.
That and slam it!

compu_85
05-09-2017, 03:41 PM
I suspect an aftermarket tune will void the battery warranty... a bit of a bummer. I wouldn't mind having a bit more torque :)

-J

Grey65
05-09-2017, 03:59 PM
I am in the same camp as you. I have been tuning and heavily modifiying cars for 15+ years. I don't plan on stopping with an EV. I hope to do some track days and auto-xing. There is a bmw shop in the bay area that regularly tracks their shop 500e.

I actually randomly found a company that offers a tuning box for the leaf and two other hybrids. The leaf tuning box has a 3kw power bump option they can add on. The tuning box is essentially a remapped throttle but I am not sure what signal they are modifying to squeeze out a couple extra kw. I reached out to them and offered myself up to be a guinea pig. I have a close friend who owns a dynapack so I can do dyno runs if needed.

as far as performance mods currently our only options are aero, wheels/tires, and suspension.

I have already designed a bracket for the rear torsion bar so I don't have to pay $300+ for the abarth brackets and the design can be tweaked to run up to a 28mm torsion bar safely.

I normally autocross my Cobra, but I am looking at using my 500e for SCCA events in STF and just using the Cobra for Goodguys events. So if you get any leads as far as tuning software you can tell them there are at least two of us interested.....


http://www.fiat500usaforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=26657&stc=1

fierostetz
05-09-2017, 05:32 PM
How much difference would it make going smaller wheels and lower profile tires?

Trunkout
05-09-2017, 07:09 PM
How much difference would it make going smaller wheels and lower profile tires?
If you went LRR and really tried to reduce your contact patch? HUGE!

rkw
05-09-2017, 11:31 PM
How much difference would it make going smaller wheels and lower profile tires?EV's don't gain as much performance from smaller wheels and lower profile tires (compared to a gas engine car), because they already have full instant torque at any RPM.

Fiat500USA
05-09-2017, 11:44 PM
One of the guys from Fiat USA used to autocross a 500e. He said it was awesome. A little behind the scenes tidbit is that many at Fiat USA consider the 500e the best all around 500 model. Have fun!

rkw
05-10-2017, 03:20 AM
Here are some posts about tracking/autocrossing the 500e:

https://plus.google.com/u/0/115413881319303435912/posts/2nCsChsyAVr (click on "view previous comments" to expand the entire thread)

Jim Hagerman who posted in that thread was the lead engineer at Bosch in developing the 500e. He has written that the test cars had a sport mode button that didn't make it into production. There's a possibility that it still has a performance tune in the firmware just waiting to be activated!

VeeDubTDI
05-10-2017, 02:10 PM
I suspect the sport button is just a re-mapped accelerator pedal that doesn't actually provide any more power over the normal mode (similar to the Madness accelerator).

rkw
05-11-2017, 04:02 AM
I suspect the sport button is just a re-mapped accelerator pedal that doesn't actually provide any more power over the normal mode (similar to the Madness accelerator).And that brings up an interesting question. What does it mean to "performance tune" an EV? The battery has a maximum output and all you can really do is alter the power curve, e.g. re-map the accelerator pedal.

Grey65
05-11-2017, 06:58 AM
And that brings up an interesting question. What does it mean to "performance tune" an EV? The battery has a maximum output and all you can really do is alter the power curve, e.g. re-map the accelerator pedal.

On the 500e you are getting 100% of what FCA engineers are allowing released immediately. Let’s say the electric motor is capable of spinning at 20,000rpm.. FCA engineers would never allow you to spin the motor at 100% as they have to warranty the motor. So they may have it set at 17,500rpm max… The tune on an electric motor could be just electronically releasing more rpms… Think Tesla and the Ludicrous mode.

charrigan
05-11-2017, 07:58 AM
And that brings up an interesting question. What does it mean to "performance tune" an EV? The battery has a maximum output and all you can really do is alter the power curve, e.g. re-map the accelerator pedal.


On the 500e you are getting 100% of what FCA engineers are allowing released immediately. Let’s say the electric motor is capable of spinning at 20,000rpm.. FCA engineers would never allow you to spin the motor at 100% as they have to warranty the motor. So they may have it set at 17,500rpm max… The tune on an electric motor could be just electronically releasing more rpms… Think Tesla and the Ludicrous mode.

Increasing the drive unit max rpm will only increase the top speed. It wont effect power at all.

PWM and total voltage supplied to the drive unit needs to be increased. Thats how you increase torque output. Thats essentially how ludicrous mode works on a model s.

As far and getting any form of additional power out of a 500e the simplest method would be finding out what signals can be altered to trick the car into making a few extra kw of output without throwing codes.

That tuning box company in europe figured it out on the leaf and they are getting 3kw extra power out of it. Thats not a lot of power but its something.

VeeDubTDI
05-11-2017, 11:11 AM
While the battery certainly has a maximum safe output, as many ICEs have maximum safe outputs, performance tunes typically eek out a little extra performance by dipping into the assumed buffer that manufacturers build in for that extra bit of safety and longevity.

I don't know the specifics when it comes to the 500e, but it's possible that there is a little more performance to be gained by raising the maximum motor power output or by removing some of the initial acceleration smoothing to provide more instant power output. There are other hard limitations like wiring and fuse sizes that no tune will be able to exceed.

I'd also argue that the accelerator pedal isn't the limitation. If you immediately floor it, you're requesting 100% output and no amount of pedal remapping is going to change that. Most sport modes and aftermarket pedals simply increase the gain in the pedal so that 50% pedal position requests 75% power (simplified example), making the vehicle feel more lively while not actually providing quicker acceleration.

As for Tesla's Ludicrous mode, that package includes beefed up main fuses (and perhaps some other components) to handle the additional power.


And that brings up an interesting question. What does it mean to "performance tune" an EV? The battery has a maximum output and all you can really do is alter the power curve, e.g. re-map the accelerator pedal.

rkw
05-11-2017, 01:16 PM
it's possible that there is a little more performance to be gained by raising the maximum motor power output or by removing some of the initial acceleration smoothing to provide more instant power output.Acceleration is definitely one area where performance can be gained. Because of full instant torque, most EV's limit the power on acceleration, as a kind of traction control to prevent wheel spin. Jim Hagerman (whom I mentioned earlier) said that with a grippy tire, full torque can actually rip a tire from the wheel bead.

fierostetz
05-11-2017, 06:28 PM
Would a second drive unit fit in the back? :D

idea reminds me of this tiburon from the 90s http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1097053_twin-engine-hyundai-tiburon-does-donut-dance-rips-off-10s-video

lbowroom
05-12-2017, 05:58 PM
I suspect the sport button is just a re-mapped accelerator pedal that doesn't actually provide any more power over the normal mode (similar to the Madness accelerator).

I suspect you're completely wrong :)

VeeDubTDI
05-14-2017, 07:37 AM
I suspect you're completely wrong :)

Let me qualify my previous statement a bit more. On some vehicles, sport mode does increase power. The Volkswagen e-Golf is like this, and I think the i3 might be like this, as well. On other vehicles like the Nissan LEAF, the Chevy Bolt and Spark, and even things like the Toyota Prius, sport/econ modes only remaps the accelerator pedal responsiveness.