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rjlong
01-22-2017, 11:33 PM
I was looking at weight reduction options, in addition to the rear seat delete, rear wiper delete, noise maker delete, motor cover delete, hood heat shield delete... and there it was. The 40 pound wonder of a lead acid battery. Without the heavy amp load of a starter, why do we need such a big, heavy low voltage battery? Seems like one of these 3.2 pound lithium ion motorcycle batteries would be perfect. Has anyone tried it? They even have terminal adapters for standard size terminals.

https://shop.antigravitybatteries.com/products/starter-batteries/small-case/ag-1601/

DaveN007
01-22-2017, 11:44 PM
I was looking at weight reduction options, in addition to the rear seat delete, rear wiper delete, noise maker delete, motor cover delete, hood heat shield delete... and there it was. The 40 pound wonder of a lead acid battery. Without the heavy amp load of a starter, why do we need such a big, heavy low voltage battery? Seems like one of these 3.2 pound lithium ion motorcycle batteries would be perfect. Has anyone tried it? They even have terminal adapters for standard size terminals.

https://shop.antigravitybatteries.com/products/starter-batteries/small-case/ag-1601/

I will be curious to see the results. I assume you are going for better range/performance. I have gone the opposite route. Tires that provide better grip. I have not been able to confirm any difference in range, and I have a "control" for weather in my garage. My daughter drives an identical car. We see same range estimates. She has OEM tires and wheels.

rjlong
01-23-2017, 12:06 AM
I will be curious to see the results. I assume you are going for better range/performance. I have gone the opposite route. Tires that provide better grip. I have not been able to confirm any difference in range, and I have a "control" for weather in my garage. My daughter drives an identical car. We see same range estimates. She has OEM tires and wheels.

I'm looking for better performance, including range. My commute isn't far, and I rarely use half a charge in a day. Better power to weight ratio is never bad. And, taking some weight out of the front will help the balance a bit.

lbowroom
01-23-2017, 01:29 PM
You're correct. Lighter is better and there is no large peak load on the battery. However, I think that perceptible benefits will be small.

DaveN007
01-23-2017, 01:54 PM
And, taking some weight out of the front will help the balance a bit.

Which is why you are removing the rear seats. Gotcha.

(Just teasing. LOL. I applaud the effort.)

maximizese
01-23-2017, 04:41 PM
I wouldn't worry about weight too much, but that is a interesting question about the battery. My old TDI needs about 550CCA to get started, my wife's hybrid (and the 500e) doesn't need much current but needs voltage to keep the computers functioning. I remember when the cells went bad on the hybrid, the power windows started slowing down when the battery read 12V; the car wouldn't start when the battery read 9V. I measured out the 500e and I currently have 14.3V.

rkw
01-23-2017, 05:25 PM
I wouldn't worry about weight too much, but that is a interesting question about the battery. My old TDI needs about 550CCA to get started, my wife's hybrid (and the 500e) doesn't need much current but needs voltage to keep the computers functioning. I remember when the cells went bad on the hybrid, the power windows started slowing down when the battery read 12V; the car wouldn't start when the battery read 9V. I measured out the 500e and I currently have 14.3V.
Read Eric Cha's post in this thread: https://plus.google.com/108783224192522402112/posts/7Jui65CkuMr
He was able to jump start his 500e by stringing together some AA batteries!

rjlong
01-23-2017, 09:20 PM
Which is why you are removing the rear seats. Gotcha.

(Just teasing. LOL. I applaud the effort.)

Rear seats are already out. Most of the easy weight loss is behind the driver, so finding 30-something pounds up front is a win in my book, and a move in the right direction!

maximizese
01-23-2017, 09:35 PM
Read Eric Cha's post in this thread: https://plus.google.com/108783224192522402112/posts/7Jui65CkuMr
He was able to jump start his 500e by stringing together some AA batteries!

Ha. Doesn't surprise me at all. One AA battery is good for 1.2-1.5Vs and that's probably enough to get 12Vs for the computer. Thanks for sharing that, I'm sure it'll by handy for us all. I'd hate to be out somewhere and have my battery stuck in the "ignition" column.

CoachRick
01-24-2017, 03:11 PM
Read Eric Cha's post in this thread: https://plus.google.com/108783224192522402112/posts/7Jui65CkuMr
He was able to jump start his 500e by stringing together some AA batteries!
Isn't his last name actually MacGyver?

streetsurfer
01-25-2017, 12:44 PM
The goal can also be to free up space for other things. This was just a test fit but should be installed, eventually. By repositioning the battery from how it is sitting here, I will also be able to fit a pre-luber in there.


Keep in mind that the lightweight 25174battery will drain more quickly when playing the radio or using other accessories when parked, and because of this it would be wise to take along a jumper battery pack such as the mini-max or it's kind. You may also want to shorten the radio play time after key off adjustment.

rkw
01-25-2017, 02:00 PM
The goal can also be to free up space for other things. This was just a test fit but should be installed, eventually. By repositioning the battery from how it is sitting here, I will also be able to fit a pre-luber in there. Any suggestion of other things for an electric 500e? (subject of this thread a pre-luber isn't relevant)

streetsurfer
01-25-2017, 03:10 PM
Sorry, missed it was the E thread.

rjlong
01-25-2017, 09:41 PM
The goal can also be to free up space for other things. This was just a test fit but should be installed, eventually. By repositioning the battery from how it is sitting here, I will also be able to fit a pre-luber in there.


Keep in mind that the lightweight 25174battery will drain more quickly when playing the radio or using other accessories when parked, and because of this it would be wise to take along a jumper battery pack such as the mini-max or it's kind. You may also want to shorten the radio play time after key off adjustment.

What battery are you running? I'm thinking about doing a trial with a 16ah motorcycle battery at about $50 with adapters. That would lose close to 35 pounds. It is a 500e, so I'm not worried about CCA, but the original battery is 60ah, so I guess I'll just give it a shot and see. There are some 16ah lithium batteries that are <2lbs, but those are much more expensive. Not sure I'm ready to risk $250 for something that may leave me stranded. I have a jump-box, so I'll carry that until I know whether or not 16ah will keep the car alive between starts.

rjlong
01-25-2017, 09:44 PM
Any suggestion of other things for an electric 500e? (subject of this thread — a pre-luber isn't relevant)


Maybe a capacitor bank with a button on the steering wheel that says "boost"! Or a Mr. Fusion.

streetsurfer
01-25-2017, 11:15 PM
What battery are you running?

It's the braille 9 lb. 12 ah

http://www.tirerack.com/accessories/detail.jsp?ID=25

Specs are listed on the braille site, not tire rack's

https://www.braillebattery.com/index.php/braille/product_batteries/b129

rjlong
01-26-2017, 12:47 AM
It's the braille 9 lb. 12 ah

http://www.tirerack.com/accessories/detail.jsp?ID=25

Specs are listed on the braille site, not tire rack's

https://www.braillebattery.com/index.php/braille/product_batteries/b129

Great, thanks. In keeping with my "try it and see" method (as far as I can tell, this will be a first for an e), I chose an Adventure Power YTZ14S for $35. It's AGM, so no spills to worry about. Rated for 15ah and 6 lbs. Also got a set of XS Power 580 short adapters for $10. Both from eBay with free shipping, so I should have it for next week.

chilicoke
01-30-2017, 03:57 PM
Please do keep the rest of us updated on this. New 500e owner here, changed the wheels/tires after only a few weeks and lost a little bit of range, love to mod and wouldn't mind doing other stuff for some efficiency recovery. :)

rjlong
01-30-2017, 10:58 PM
Please do keep the rest of us updated on this. New 500e owner here, changed the wheels/tires after only a few weeks and lost a little bit of range, love to mod and wouldn't mind doing other stuff for some efficiency recovery. :)

Absolutely, I'll keep you posted. The battery arrived today, and it's heavier than advertised. 9 lbs rather than 6. But, if it works, then a larger investment for a lithium battery will be justified. Hoping the adapters arrive tomorrow so I can get this experiment underway.

rjlong
01-30-2017, 11:56 PM
Please do keep the rest of us updated on this. New 500e owner here, changed the wheels/tires after only a few weeks and lost a little bit of range, love to mod and wouldn't mind doing other stuff for some efficiency recovery. :)

By the way, what do you have planned for your stock wheels?

rjlong
02-01-2017, 12:01 AM
25264. 25263

Here it is with a temporary mount. 38.6 pounds out, 8.6 pounds in, for a net loss of 30 pounds. Less than $50 total investment. Working great since 1/30. Drove home tonight with all the 12 volt accessories on and nominal operation. The 12v charges while plugged in, so I don't see any issue with the battery going down due to parasitic draws. This is my daily driver, and I use a Level 1 charger, so she's plugged in every night.

If things go well for 30 days, I'll invest in a lithium 16ah and fab a nice aluminum and lexan mount.

fox
02-09-2017, 09:04 PM
Have you seen any issues at all in those 9 days? Any thoughts on the low cca output of this at 1.1lbs or should I get the $99 2 lb one with 330cca??
https://www.amazon.com/YTX5L-BS-Lithium-Battery-Motorcycle-MMG/dp/B00BM7X05C/ref=sr_1_1?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1486688172&sr=1-1-spons&keywords=Lithium+12v+cca&psc=1

rjlong
02-10-2017, 09:49 AM
Have you seen any issues at all in those 9 days? Any thoughts on the low cca output of this at 1.1lbs or should I get the $99 2 lb one with 330cca??
https://www.amazon.com/YTX5L-BS-Lithium-Battery-Motorcycle-MMG/dp/B00BM7X05C/ref=sr_1_1?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1486688172&sr=1-1-spons&keywords=Lithium+12v+cca&psc=1

I have had zero issues with the small AGM battery I'm running. The specs in the eBay ad were a little off, as it was supposed to be 15 amp/hour and 6 lbs, but it's actually 14ah and nearly 9 lbs. I don't know that I would go less than 14 ah. At 120 cca, that's probably a 5 or 6ah battery, and may deplete to below 12v if left parked for a few days due to parasitic draw. I'm leaning toward a BikeMaster DLFP-14L-A. It includes a built-in cell balance circuit. Less than 3 pounds, and has a 14ah capacity.

I do recommend using Loctite on the adapter bolts to prevent them from coming loose. They came with a lock washer, but wiggling the battery leads some caused negative adapter to loosen slightly. A little Loctite keeps everything secure.

rjlong
03-10-2017, 02:09 PM
Everything is still good with the small 12v battery. Over 1500 miles driven. Everything works normally. No issues at all.

hjz911
03-13-2017, 09:59 AM
Went with this - Antigravity YTX12 16-Cell 480CA Lithium Ion Battery, since the CCA is closer to OEM (500 vs 480) + XS Power 586 Tall Brass Post Adaptor (M6 Thread)...

I am all about maximizing range, since i have a 60 mile (90% freeway) round trip commute to work...

Planning to remove the backseats as well : )

Thanks for the idea!! Will let you know how it goes....

maximizese
03-14-2017, 12:44 PM
Went with this - Antigravity YTX12 16-Cell 480CA Lithium Ion Battery, since the CCA is closer to OEM (500 vs 480) + XS Power 586 Tall Brass Post Adaptor (M6 Thread)...

I am all about maximizing range, since i have a 60 mile (90% freeway) round trip commute to work...

Planning to remove the backseats as well : )

Thanks for the idea!! Will let you know how it goes....

I'm not sure CCA matters in this car….there's no crank starter. I believe voltage is the key. My VW TDI and GM Silverado 2500HD need a lot of CCA; I've been in situations when I needed to wait for the temperature to rise before the engine would start (that's when you know you need a new battery).

hjz911
03-15-2017, 01:19 AM
True - no engine no crank - I need to stop thinking in ICE terms - lol...What folks cautioned about was the amp hours...This battery has 16ah, so i should be good...

This little thing weights 3 lbs 8 ozs which is insane...save 35 lbs on the battery + 53 lbs with the backseats off = -88 lbs woohoo!!

One thing the vendor mentioned was that cold weather is the worst enemy for these batteries...i am in AZ so no worries there - i was more concerned about the 200 degree summers, but was told not to worry...

Also this battery comes start charged already, so you don't need to buy a lithium charger...

hjz911
04-02-2017, 11:06 AM
Finally had the time to install the Anti-Graviity Lithium battery...The weight difference is 3.5 lbs vs 34.5 lbs...Easy to install, just nerve-racking to work around all those "electrocution warning labels" - Lol...

One word of advice - the Anti-Gravity does come with a "start charge", but its a very small charge. When i installed the battery, i had the vehicle in "ignition" mode for less than 5 minutes and the
battery died...luckily, i had a portable quick starter lithium battery (worth the $$) hanging around and i used it to restart the vehicle, worked great after that...

i will be using most of my accessories during my commute, will let you know if i encounter any issues...Between the RSD + this battery swap = -85 lbs...Hopefully, i'll see a range improvement -
even a few miles will make me happy... : )

http://www.fiat500usaforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=26216&stc=1

rjlong
04-03-2017, 08:15 AM
Best thing to do with those high voltage stickers is peel them off and polish the aluminum underneath.26237

hjz911
04-03-2017, 04:14 PM
Best thing to do with those high voltage stickers is peel them off and polish the aluminum underneath.http://www.fiat500usaforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=26237&stc=1

I'll keep them there just in case some emergency worker doesn't know any better...Lol

Just wanted to thank you for recommending this modification...Makes sense when you are trying to eek-out every single mile out of your battery - as my daily
commute gets me close to turtle-mode if i go out to lunch...Lol

VeeDubTDI
04-04-2017, 04:02 PM
While this looks like a neat project, I don't think shedding 85 pounds in a 3,000 pound car is going to result in a noticeable range improvement. A 3% weight reduction might result in a 1-2 mile range increase in a best case scenario. I think the money invested in a lightweight lithium battery would be better spent on a couple of aerodynamic modifications. For example, covering up the holes in the front grill or fabricating something to cover where the muffler would live on a gas 500.

hjz911 - With a daily commute that approaches turtle mode, I think it would be in the best interest of battery longevity to find a place to charge at work (120 volt outlet, perhaps). Fully cycling the battery on a daily basis isn't ideal for battery longevity and if it starts to degrade, you might be out of luck with your long commute.

hjz911
04-05-2017, 01:29 AM
Thanks VeeDub!! i'll start taking a look at the vehicle from an aerodynamic point of view...I am already noticing a 5 mile improvement with the aforementioned changes...What i really need to do is move closer to work or not go out for lunch - hehehe

By the summer, I am moving into a new building at work that has EV chargers, but folks fight over them at least once a week (posted on my company's EV forum), so i am not sure about their availablity - cant wait to see what happens when all those Tesla Model 3's start hitting the road...."EV Charger Rage" will be the new thing - lmao

hjz911
05-13-2017, 09:12 PM
Quick update....Its been 40 days

My 2015 500e has been running great with the Anti Gravity YTX12 16 cell 480ca Lithium Ion battery...No issues what-so-ever...

Have a 90% freeway commute with the AC, Radio, and Daytime Running lights on....

Granted its been in perfect weather....The Arizona 100+ degree days aren't here yet...

Will post any issues...

Whtltning00
09-27-2017, 01:18 AM
I feel your pain man, I used to commute from Queen Creek to Tempe. My commute with my 500e out here in CA is almost 80 miles round trip, I found out the hard way the battery won't last without midday charging at work. Have you had any more luck increasing your range?

hjz911
11-18-2017, 11:26 PM
Hi Everyone,

Update:

I bought another EV and i am in the process of selling my 2015 500e...I decided to not make the Antigravity YTX12 Lithium Ion Battery (https://www.revzilla.com/motorcycle/antigravity-ytx12-lithium-ion-battery) part of the deal...So i am selling it separately...

I've used it in my daily commuter since 03/2017 (as you see above) and its performed perfectly without any issues...

I paid $250 for it...I am selling it for $140 and will include the posts + free shipping to the contiguous 48 States...

If you are interested, email me at johnzayas@yahoo.com...First come, First serve...

Thanks in advance!!
JZ
287772877828779

Apexerman
11-19-2017, 03:22 AM
Which EV did you go with?

hjz911
11-19-2017, 07:03 PM
Which EV did you go with?

Bought directly from Tesla - a used 2014 Model S 85...

I am going to miss my little Fiat for sure - such a hoot to drive...Just wished it had more range for my long 90% freeway commute...:frown:

Apexerman
11-19-2017, 08:52 PM
Wow! Well congrats on the Tesla purchase. A Model S is quite the machine. Lots 'o range and lots 'o power... should be fun. I still can't believe the performance of the new roadster they just unveiled. 1.9 sec. 0-60mph. Good lord that's laws of physics-bending! But I hear you about the Fiat. Small cars are a blast to drive. I'll be in the market for a 500e in a few months, so I'm looking forward to ownership.

zonker
12-21-2017, 12:07 AM
Here is hjz11's old battery mounted in my car - I remove the battery tray for a little additional weight removal and strapped the battery to the cross support under the tray.

https://i.imgur.com/BpzqDw9.jpg?1

njm5785
08-27-2018, 02:52 PM
I know this is a bit of an older thread but I just got my 500e 3 days ago and love it. Looking for ideas to improve range. Has anyone on here swapped out all the lights to led lights. They would use a lot less power then the lights that come with the car. If so what lights did you use?

rkw
08-27-2018, 07:05 PM
I know this is a bit of an older thread but I just got my 500e 3 days ago and love it. Looking for ideas to improve range. Has anyone on here swapped out all the lights to led lights. They would use a lot less power then the lights that come with the car. If so what lights did you use?You might change lights with the goal of improving lighting, but don't expect to gain any meaningful increase in range. The lights consume negligible energy compared to propelling 3000 lbs of mass. As an analogy, imagine swapping lights in a gas car. In theory, more efficient lights in a gas car would decrease load on the engine and therefore increase mpg, but the real effect on mpg would be minuscule.

Ricksuiter
08-28-2018, 02:07 AM
This might be best as a separate thread, but the car is setup for incandescent bulbs and it will tell you when a brake light bulb is out based on the lack of current so even if you switch to LED modules (which would technically violate the DOT rating of the lights) you would have to put a load resistor in parallel with it to avoid the constant bulb out warnings so there's no benefit aside from maybe slightly faster responding lights.

mateusz
01-05-2019, 04:36 PM
Hello,
i am a new user of 500e in Europe, and i see you have some knowledge about the car electrics. I am trying to find an information how all the equipment in the car like lights, or radio are powered. In a regular car the most of the current is generated by the alternator which also keeps the 12v battery charged. I wonder if in the ev it is the same? I read that the pim module is charging the 12v battery, but i wonder if it does it all the time, or only when the voltage on the 12v batery drops. Are lights an other stuff during driving powered from the battery which is occasionally charged, or they are powered by the pim module? I am curious about it because i bought fiat as a kind of my company car, and i am a car audio specialist. I want to put an amplifier, new speakers and a subwoofer and i wonder how it would influence the range of the car. I was thinking of putting a flexible solar panel on the roof to charge the 12v battery when the car stays in front of my company, but i do not know if it will have any sence.

zonker
04-03-2019, 12:40 AM
The basic systems light lighting, stereo, and instrumentation are handled by the 12v battery, and while the car is turned on or the car is being charged, the EV batteries provide a backup current to bring the 12v battery to full charge. My 500e has an aftermarket amp and speakers, and it's connection is directly to the 12 volt battery. Hope that helps.

sportfan
04-06-2019, 11:04 AM
I ran an AntiGravity for about 6 months last year. I put the OEM one back in for our cold winters. Here in about a week the 3 lb. 15 oz. battery goes back in. I made an adapter plate mount for the AG battery so if I ever needed to replace it while on a trip, a OEM type battery would go right in.33497

zonker
04-09-2019, 01:04 PM
I ran an AntiGravity for about 6 months last year. I put the OEM one back in for our cold winters. Here in about a week the 3 lb. 15 oz. battery goes back in. I made an adapter plate mount for the AG battery so if I ever needed to replace it while on a trip, a OEM type battery would go right in.33497

Mine eventually bloated and blew up - never buy one of those batteries again. I switched it out with a lawn tractor U1-R battery and all is well. The lawn tractor battery weighs only 15lbs so it's a good compromise between power needs and weight of the stock 37 lb battery.

And they are like $50 at any Autozone or Walmart. My U1-R:
http://i.imgur.com/VDEcbJ3.jpg (https://imgur.com/VDEcbJ3)