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Good-Win Racing
07-10-2016, 06:11 PM
Picked up new project Fiat 124 today, ostensibly wife's new daily driver, already nicknamed: 'Sophia'. Welcome Sophia, fun begins today with spring swap, wheels and tires, etc. My last Fiat 124 was about three decades ago....that kid is me with the 78 Fiat 124.

Already drove the snot out of it...and then put it on the lift and started taking it apart! :eek:

Tons to learn, diving in!

http://www.mazdatalkforum.com/download/file.php?id=3668&t=1
http://www.mazdatalkforum.com/download/file.php?id=3667&t=1

Did some freeway time with top up and AGREE, for anybody wanting the most quiet version of the ND/124 chassis....they want the Fiat. Particularly with the narrower 16 inch wheel/tires the ride is noticeably more quiet and smooth compared to ND, despite fact Fiat spring rates and sway bar rates are HIGHER (already pulled and measured a lot). Body lean is less than ND in stock form, though still rolls quite a bit, just not near as much as stock ND (rear sways on ND 11mm, on Fiat 14mm).

Andree
07-10-2016, 06:39 PM
Woo hoo! That sure didn't take long! Congratulations on the 124, and hope you both enjoy it for a long time!

Rags747
07-10-2016, 07:40 PM
Love pictures like that

jguerdat
07-11-2016, 07:17 AM
Got a question for ya. AT an autocross yesterday, it appears that the ND transmissions are being damaged in competition. Apparently, something like 5 NDs had transmission problems with 2nd gear in one weekend recently (I think at a National Tour). Since the Fiats use the NC transmissions (there was also a suggestion that the BRZ/FRS twins also use the same trans) with some sort of modifications (gear ratios? stronger components?), it would seem that the Fiat should be less likely to have issues.

Any comments?

Good-Win Racing
07-11-2016, 07:49 AM
Already finding little details in the Fiat that are unique, our ND GT does not include these little soft rubber spring cushions.

http://www.mazdatalkforum.com/download/file.php?id=3673

Good-Win Racing
07-11-2016, 07:52 AM
Weight and distribution

http://www.mazdatalkforum.com/download/file.php?id=3672&t=1

Good-Win Racing
07-11-2016, 07:52 AM
Fiat transmission is based on NC unit, we have used those transmissions through 300 hp, certainly reliable past 250hp. My 2007 Supercharged NC currently makes 321 hp at the wheels, etc. Issues the ND is having with new Skyactiv transmission not relevant to Fiat version.

JimmyTestarossa
07-11-2016, 08:53 AM
If this is the Good-Win I know about in the Miata community then we can see some really nifty things happening with this 124 and perhaps some bits that will be available as upgrades.

I see a potential new vendor appearing here soon.

FSpydie
07-11-2016, 10:43 AM
Excellent. "Sophia." :) I love it! Certainly much better than "Brad." ;)

"Sophia" is an automatic, correct? It's my understanding the first shipment is all autos. What are your impressions so far with it?

Andree
07-11-2016, 11:41 AM
If this is the Good-Win I know about in the Miata community then we can see some really nifty things happening with this 124 and perhaps some bits that will be available as upgrades.

I see a potential new vendor appearing here soon.

Yes, it's the same person, posted some pics and linked to driving reviews on the 124 over here recently:
http://www.fiat500usaforum.com/showthread.php?24642-Post-Actual-Fiat-124-Driving-Reviews-Here!&p=775547&viewfull=1#post775547

Somewhere there was a link to folks on the Miata forum chatting about it too, and they liked the 124! That was exciting to read about and perhaps some will want to have one of each. Now that we have someone who is very familiar with the Miata, and is becoming equally familiar with the 124, we will see goodies. Oh, and the Good-Win person also said that the Fiat engineers were interested in what he can do too!!!

What I like so far is we get to follow along, seeing parts. And his commentary, telling us what is different or the same or an improvement or what could be improved. It doesn't mean a whole lot to me, as I don't have a 124, but will be a hugely popular feature for those who do get one now...or get one in the future. Reference materials rock!

morrisg
07-11-2016, 02:29 PM
Weight and distribution

http://www.mazdatalkforum.com/download/file.php?id=3672&t=1

Lovely cross weighting: 50.2% - 49.8% very balanced! And the Classica is 2417 total while Bauer's Club came in at 2309 or thereabouts, so 108 lbs difference.

Keep the new info coming, Brian! And thanks for taking the time to keep us informed!!!

Simmonz
07-11-2016, 02:43 PM
Thanks for all the information. Looking forward to seeing what you guys have up your sleeves with these cars. I'll be rocking a manual Abarth one day until then Ill just watch your progress!

Sales@Tork
07-11-2016, 02:53 PM
Congrats on your purchase!
Didn't take long to want to mod it!
Sophia is a beauty !

Gina

xtrmnop
07-11-2016, 04:18 PM
Congrats on the 124. Subscribe check. Did you get the 124 at Bob Baker Calrsbad? Was heading to San Diego this past weekend and saw a couple of car transport truck full of 124. I wanted to stop by the dealership but ran out of time.

Klasse Act
07-11-2016, 06:27 PM
I heard the Good-win exhaust on the new Miata via WRXREVIEWS and it sounded awesome! You could hear it from inside the car and he even did a recording of the sound from outside the car, really impressive system!

As far as that picture goes, I guess its true that when you get an Italian sports car girls jump into your arms, LOL!!

Good-Win Racing
07-11-2016, 06:36 PM
WOW, found some of the extra weight!

The Fiat Battery looks like a BEAST....because it is!

Once all the bracket and bucket are added (not shown here), the weight for the Fiat battery and mounting setup is over 39 pounds! Stock ND battery with the bracket and bucket is only 26 pounds.....difference of 13 pounds! All the same electronics in the car, the Fiat doesn't need so much more battery, my guess is they didn't want an extra sku and this battery is already same as used in other models like the 500. Once we get our Light Battery Kit modified to work in the Fiat we will be saving about 36 pounds on just the battery. Given that is all weight high in the nose of the car it will make a nice difference.

http://www.mazdatalkforum.com/download/file.php?id=3675&t=1

For comparison, ND Battery:
http://www.mazdatalkforum.com/download/file.php?id=3545andt=1

And our Light Battery kit, plus battery:
http://www.mazdatalkforum.com/download/file.php?id=3544andt=1

Good-Win Racing
07-11-2016, 09:00 PM
Fiat 124 with our Progress Springs and 17x8 Tungsten 6UL wheels with 235/40/17 Toyo R1R Tires. Even with just the springs upgraded this Fiat is pretty flat in the corners, credit to both the springs and the fact that Fiat gave it's version a bit more sway bar (rear 14mm instead of 11mm, etc).

Fits perfect, feels great, looks awesome!

http://www.mazdatalkforum.com/download/file.php?id=3681&t=1
http://www.mazdatalkforum.com/download/file.php?id=3680&t=1
http://www.mazdatalkforum.com/download/file.php?id=3679&t=1

Oddmanout
07-12-2016, 10:52 AM
Fiat 124 with our Progress Springs and 17x8 Tungsten 6UL wheels with 235/40/17 Toyo R1R Tires. Even with just the springs upgraded this Fiat is pretty flat in the corners, credit to both the springs and the fact that Fiat gave it's version a bit more sway bar (rear 14mm instead of 11mm, etc).

Fits perfect, feels great, looks awesome!

Wow that looks so much better with proper wheels and ride height! This makes the base model much more compelling (imo).

Good-Win Racing
07-13-2016, 11:43 AM
Congrats on the 124. Subscribe check. Did you get the 124 at Bob Baker Calrsbad? Was heading to San Diego this past weekend and saw a couple of car transport truck full of 124. I wanted to stop by the dealership but ran out of time.

YES...they were one of the few dealers able to promise us a manual trans.

FSpydie
07-13-2016, 01:32 PM
YES...they were one of the few dealers able to promise us a manual trans.

I'm glad you posted that. So Sophia is a manual, I presume. Cool!

MJAB
07-13-2016, 06:58 PM
Does Fiat 124 heavier battery because ready for a future stop&start system?

Klasse Act
07-13-2016, 07:32 PM
Never fails, rims and springs do WONDERS!!!

This car is really coming together in a short amount of time, love the black accents you did around the headlight cup too, really sets it off!!!

Good-Win Racing
07-13-2016, 09:03 PM
Does Fiat 124 heavier battery because ready for a future stop&start system?

Nope, they just went CHEAP on the battery. Mazda uses lighter sealed AGM, costs a bit more, saves about 13 pounds. Fiat went flooded lead acid, not even maintenance free (seriously, when was the last time you saw maintenance required battery outside of a truck?).

Good-Win Racing
07-13-2016, 09:20 PM
Dropped over 52 pounds of weight today from our Fiat 124!

Seriously, that is HALF the amount the Fiat is heavier than the ND Miata...gone in ONE DAY.

Did it with just our front two-piece brake rotors, caliper conversion, and light weight battery kit.

Car now rides BETTER than stock thanks to big cut in unpsrung weight, and stops better thanks to four piston calipers, and handles better (front end response to all inputs and road imperfections is better). Will get to the rear brakes soon, this was enough for one day!

STOCK PARTS on scale. Stock front brake rotors, stock front calipers, and MASSIVE LEAD ACID MAINTENANCE REQUIRED BATTERY (seriously, who does not use maintenance free batteries these days?).
http://www.mazdatalkforum.com/download/file.php?id=3702&t=1

Replacement Light Parts. Good-Win Racing Four Piston Caliper Conversion, Good-Win Racing Ultra Light Two-Piece Brake Rotors, Good-Win Racing Light Battery Kit.

http://www.mazdatalkforum.com/download/file.php?id=3703&t=1

http://www.mazdatalkforum.com/download/file.php?id=3705&t=1
http://www.mazdatalkforum.com/download/file.php?id=3704&t=1

morrisg
07-14-2016, 02:22 AM
Great thread, Brian! Onward to the exhaust! I'm curious if you can get by with just a turndown pipe, as in No Muffler At All. Would be fun to hear what it sounds like. And you could still sell the mid pipe with the Helmholz resonator, I'm sure!

Amacento
07-14-2016, 06:10 AM
Great thread to kick off the reintroduction of the F124.

MJAB
07-14-2016, 07:34 AM
Unusual battery, even the Fiat Panda, that costs less than half the price uses maintenance free batteries.
Usually the use in last models, at least in Europe, were more of the models use start&stop technology, enhanced flooded batteries sourced by Exide.

Is the roof of Fiat 124 heavier than Mazda MX-5 or is it the same?

randY49
07-14-2016, 10:43 AM
Unusual battery, even the Fiat Panda, that costs less than half the price uses maintenance free batteries.
Usually the use in last models, at least in Europe, were more of the models use start&stop technology, enhanced flooded batteries sourced by Exide.

Is the roof of Fiat 124 heavier than Mazda MX-5 or is it the same?
I believe there were reports of more sound insulation in the 124's roof, so I'm guessing a bit heavier, but probably not by much.

Good-Win Racing
07-14-2016, 12:05 PM
Interesting comparison two stock exhausts for 124, the quad tip is Abarth version and very loud, the single tip version otherwise looks similar but is so quiet we cannot hear it. Tried the car without muffler and result is not good, like old military 4 cylinder diesel drone, even the Abarth gives a bit too much of that drone, I know we can do better.

http://www.mazdatalkforum.com/download/file.php?id=3713&t=1

The dual tip standard exhaust is where they saved a lot of money, didn't even bother with fake tips or polishing the pipe. Yes, will be looking at doing better here.

http://www.mazdatalkforum.com/download/file.php?id=3708&t=1

Finding lots of little differences between ND and Fiat versions, like this silicon high temp hanger for the midpipe:

http://www.mazdatalkforum.com/download/file.php?id=3706&t=1

xtrmnop
07-14-2016, 01:25 PM
Damn that is a decent amount of weight savings. Reading these post makes me give that itch of trading my Abarth.

morrisg
07-14-2016, 02:10 PM
Interesting comparison two stock exhausts for 124, the quad tip is Abarth version and very loud, the single tip version otherwise looks similar but is so quiet we cannot hear it. Tried the car without muffler and result is not good, like old military 4 cylinder diesel drone, even the Abarth gives a bit too much of that drone, I know we can do better.

http://www.mazdatalkforum.com/download/file.php?id=3713&t=1

The dual tip standard exhaust is where they saved a lot of money, didn't even bother with fake tips or polishing the pipe. Yes, will be looking at doing better here.

http://www.mazdatalkforum.com/download/file.php?id=3708&t=1

Finding lots of little differences between ND and Fiat versions, like this silicon high temp hanger for the midpipe:

http://www.mazdatalkforum.com/download/file.php?id=3706&t=1

Oh well, at least a drone at a small range of frequencies can be significantly knocked down by targeting those frequencies with a Helmholz resonator in the mid pipe. It might be interesting to see what such a mid pipe sounds like with no muffler, in the interest of saving weight of course.

FSpydie
07-14-2016, 03:05 PM
Interesting comparison two stock exhausts for 124, the quad tip is Abarth version and very loud, the single tip version otherwise looks similar but is so quiet we cannot hear it. Tried the car without muffler and result is not good, like old military 4 cylinder diesel drone, even the Abarth gives a bit too much of that drone, I know we can do better.

http://www.mazdatalkforum.com/download/file.php?id=3713&t=1

The dual tip standard exhaust is where they saved a lot of money, didn't even bother with fake tips or polishing the pipe. Yes, will be looking at doing better here.

http://www.mazdatalkforum.com/download/file.php?id=3708&t=1

Finding lots of little differences between ND and Fiat versions, like this silicon high temp hanger for the midpipe:

http://www.mazdatalkforum.com/download/file.php?id=3706&t=1

I'm enjoying your analysis! Keep it coming. :)

Good-Win Racing
07-14-2016, 04:41 PM
Another look for you guys....

Our Enkei 16x8 RPF1 with 205/50/16 tires.

http://www.mazdatalkforum.com/download/file.php?id=3724&t=1

Simmonz
07-14-2016, 06:29 PM
Is this the same bolt pattern as the 500's? I'd love to see my hyperblack 17's on there :naughty:

Klasse Act
07-14-2016, 07:20 PM
I like the first set of wheels much, much more than those but someone out there will like them and its good to have options. I wonder why a mufflerless exhaust sounds terrible on this car but great on ours, thoughts?

Andree
07-14-2016, 08:07 PM
I like the first set of wheels much, much more than those but someone out there will like them and its good to have options. I wonder why a mufflerless exhaust sounds terrible on this car but great on ours, thoughts?

I like the first set better too, which I think is because of the black accents, interior, body color windshield surround. BUT, on the LUSSO, that has the silver windshield surround and silver accents behind the seats, I might like the silver wheels more.

Tweak
07-14-2016, 11:24 PM
If this is the Good-Win I know about in the Miata community then we can see some really nifty things happening with this 124 and perhaps some bits that will be available as upgrades.

I see a potential new vendor appearing here soon.

Had a Miata and they were great for info and parts. Can't wait to see Sophia when complete...mostly becaue it never really ends. :cool:

Good-Win Racing
07-18-2016, 01:19 PM
Another fun choice for you guys, Konig HyperGram 17x9 Race Bronze (http://www.good-win-racing.com/Mazda-Performance-Part/61-1894F.html) on Fiat 124 using our Progress Springs (http://www.good-win-racing.com/Mazda-Performance-Part/61-1847F.html).

http://www.mazdatalkforum.com/download/file.php?id=3747&t=1
http://www.mazdatalkforum.com/download/file.php?id=3746&t=1

theoffice
07-18-2016, 03:29 PM
I still like the first set better, but I love the number of different options you have been developing. I just can't wait for you to do an exhaust upgrade and please share with us how it sounds.

Klasse Act
07-18-2016, 07:37 PM
Another fun choice for you guys, Konig HyperGram 17x9 Race Bronze (http://www.good-win-racing.com/Mazda-Performance-Part/61-1894F.html) on Fiat 124 using our Progress Springs (http://www.good-win-racing.com/Mazda-Performance-Part/61-1847F.html).

http://www.mazdatalkforum.com/download/file.php?id=3747&t=1
http://www.mazdatalkforum.com/download/file.php?id=3746&t=1

Bronze on red is always going to be a winner!

I wonder if someone is going to step up and make some retro, modern size wheels for the 124? I've seen some of the old Abarth style wheels and they look awesome, funky, but awesome!!

Sammy124
07-19-2016, 10:09 AM
WOW, found some of the extra weight!

The Fiat Battery looks like a BEAST....because it is!

Once all the bracket and bucket are added (not shown here), the weight for the Fiat battery and mounting setup is over 39 pounds! Stock ND battery with the bracket and bucket is only 26 pounds.....difference of 13 pounds! All the same electronics in the car, the Fiat doesn't need so much more battery, my guess is they didn't want an extra sku and this battery is already same as used in other models like the 500. Once we get our Light Battery Kit modified to work in the Fiat we will be saving about 36 pounds on just the battery. Given that is all weight high in the nose of the car it will make a nice difference.

http://www.mazdatalkforum.com/download/file.php?id=3675&t=1

For comparison, ND Battery:
http://www.mazdatalkforum.com/download/file.php?id=3545andt=1

And our Light Battery kit, plus battery:
http://www.mazdatalkforum.com/download/file.php?id=3544andt=1


I know it is early yet but any ballpark pricing on the battery kit?

Abarth67
07-20-2016, 03:14 PM
I like the first set of wheels much, much more than those but someone out there will like them and its good to have options. I wonder why a mufflerless exhaust sounds terrible on this car but great on ours, thoughts?

The engine will sound good if the proper rear section if fitted. The last bit of tubing does wonders for sound, trust me on this.

Good-Win Racing
07-22-2016, 11:32 AM
Fiat 124 Dyno Day ONE.
http://www.mazdatalkforum.com/download/file.php?id=3772&t=1


Time to answer a few basic questions including:

1. Baseline Power at the Wheels for MANUAL Trans Fiat124
2. Does change of muffler help?
3. How does Fiat124 compare to Abarth500 with same motor?
4. How does Fiat124 compare to ND Miata on same dyno?

http://www.mazdatalkforum.com/download/file.php?id=3771&t=1
http://www.mazdatalkforum.com/download/file.php?id=3770&t=1

Does muffler change add power? Yes, we hacked up a RoadsterSport Race muffler to make it fit the cutout of the Fiat just to get a test done, this muffler is effectively just a 2.5 inch straight pipe. Muffler adds about 5HP and 11 Ft/lbs Torque.

Fiat 124 BASELINE POWER...145 HP, 169 Ft/lbs torque.
Fiat 124 Change MUFFLER.....150HP, 180 Ft/lbs torque.

http://www.mazdatalkforum.com/download/file.php?id=3773&t=1


Comparison STOCK FIAT with stock muffler to STOCK ND Miata with stock muffler. This really drives home the comparison that the Fiat makes a lot more power under the curve and yet it is slower in all magazine 0-60 tests....figure a mix of factors including a bit of extra weight, gearing, lower redline, etc.
http://www.mazdatalkforum.com/download/file.php?id=3774&t=1

Fiat 124 with stock muffler, Fiat Abarth500 with stock muffler and SPORT button engaged.
http://www.mazdatalkforum.com/download/file.php?id=3775&t=1

Fiat500 Abarth with Sport button ON/OFF. Curious if Abarth124 gets a difference this big, Sport button helps the party get started earlier. From driving the Fiat124Abarth at the Press Intro day my guess is that we see something similar between normal 124 and Abarth124.
http://www.mazdatalkforum.com/download/file.php?id=3776&t=1

aelfwyne
07-22-2016, 11:39 AM
On the 0-60.... How do the shift points on the Miata vs the Fiata compare? If you have to shift 2-3 before 60mph on the Fiata, but not the Miata, that would be the reason for the bad 0-60 right there.

I'd like to see a 0-100mph comparison, that usually clears things up a bit.

Fwiw, that's the exact reason the Abarth has such dismal 0-60 times compared to the competition. 2nd gear is only good for about 58mph, you just can't kiss 60mph without shifting to third, which destroys the 0-60 time. Doesn't make the car any slower in reality, just bad timing on having a 2-3 shift right before 60. Cars with the 2-3 shift at 65 or 70 will show the time loss after that.

This is one example of how 0-60 is a worthless measure of performance.

randY49
07-22-2016, 11:50 AM
I also wonder what, if anything, Fiat changed in the NC Miata transmission that the 124 uses. Perhaps the gear ratios are not ideal for the turbo engine.

canesice
07-22-2016, 11:59 AM
Im new to the shift game.
Why not shift a little earlier on the RPM range to try and hit the sweet spot of the higher gear a little quicker?

What is the recommend shift RPM on the lower gears? 1-3, maybe 4, forget 5-6

morrisg
07-22-2016, 02:27 PM
Forget 0-60 mph comparisons. Here's the dyno charts right in front of our eyes. BIG gain of 30 lb-ft @ 2700 rpm by swapping out the muffler points to a big exhaust restriction that's slowing the spool up of the turbo. Torque drop off to equal @ 2200 rpm or so is the fault of the tune. This is where the Abarth Sport Mode tune will show improved torque, closer to what the engine is capable of. Neither of these is anywhere near the 2008 tune of the Dodge 1.4L MultiAir turbo, which was over 150 lb-ft @ 2000 rpm and 184 lb-ft @ 2500 rpm at the flywheel. Sigh, I hate car company bureaucracies.

Brian, please cut open the Fiat 124 stock muffler and show us the insides. Thank You!

Fiat500USA
07-22-2016, 05:28 PM
According to Fiat, the Lusso is supposed to make 230Nm @ 2500rpm and 250Nm @ 3200 rpm.

Klasse Act
07-22-2016, 07:20 PM
What did the stock Abarth make for hp and torque?

morrisg
07-23-2016, 02:33 AM
According to Fiat, the Lusso is supposed to make 230Nm @ 2500rpm and 250Nm @ 3200 rpm.

230Nm = 170 lb-ft torque - 10% drivetrain losses =153 lb-ft at the wheels. The dyno above measures less than 120 lb-ft @ 2500 rpm which is over 33 lb-ft less than expected. I'd say Fiat should look into where the missing 33 lb-ft of torque went and fix it because it is costing them sales.

Fiat500USA
07-23-2016, 12:59 PM
It may not be missing power. Here is an interesting article on dyno figures (http://www.caranddriver.com/features/is-your-dyno-lying-feature).

Here is the Fiat 500 Abarth engine dyno chart for comparisons. These are actually very conservative numbers, by the way.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-ZeLPIewGUCg/T1G2dWFRbTI/AAAAAAAALJk/VF2Ux5qRiug/s800/Fiat500USA.com-Fiat_500_Abarth_DynoSheet3.jpg

morrisg
07-23-2016, 07:51 PM
And here's the Dodge 2008 tune I used for my comparison. This is a much more powerful tune from essentially the same hardware. Tuning is an art and some people are better at it than others. My question is why companies find it so hard to identify their engine tuning stars and continue to use their excellent tunes? Plus give them support and future tuning opportunities so they can make a difference in the marketplace for the company. I'm very upset about these dyno results for the Fiat 124, but I hope I'm not coming across as too negative. I really am puzzled about what happened to the 124 tune? Can anyone enlighten me???

MJAB
07-23-2016, 08:48 PM
Dodge Dart, Alfa Romeo Mito, Alfa Romeo Giulietta, Abarth Punto Evo use the C635 gearbox that has higher torque maximum values than the gearboxes used by Fiat 500 / Abarth 500 / Fiat Panda that are C510, C514, .... (C635 is too long for Mini platform).
Usually they cut torque in first/second gear for reliability, but also to prevent torque ovesteer in FWD.

The only Abarth that in Europe used the 1.4 Multiair enine was the Punto Evo.

Note: in dyno tests one should put attention on differences before and after tuning, not in absolute values since returned values are not usually the "true" ones.

Here some dyno tests for stock Abarth (Grande) Punto Evo

Grande Punto 2007, OEM data: 155 HP at 5500 rpm, 230 Nm at 3000 rpm
http://www.supersprint.com/public/file/540.pdf

Grande Punto 2007 kit SS, OEM data: 180 HP at 5750 rpm, 270 Nm at 3000 rpm
http://www.supersprint.com/public/file/2_375.pdf




(http://www.supersprint.com/public/file/540.pdf)

Fiat500USA
07-23-2016, 09:02 PM
That is an interesting point. I'm thinking it is just a variation of the dynamometer. The Abarth had its torque limited to preserve the C510 transmission (http://www.fiat500usa.com/2009/09/fiat-500-transmissions-5-or-6-speed.html). The Dodge uses the robust C635 trans as does the 500L so it can take more torque.

jguerdat
07-24-2016, 06:49 AM
Usually they cut torque in first/second gear for reliability, but also to prevent torque ovesteer in FWD.

Maybe I'm missing something - "torque oversteer in FWD"? Did you mean understeer?

aelfwyne
07-24-2016, 08:20 AM
Maybe I'm missing something - "torque oversteer in FWD"? Did you mean understeer?

No, torque steer.

Torque Steer is where the vehicle pulls to one direction while accelerating. This is due to one wheel receiving more power than another, it literally steers the car without driver input.

When turbo cars first became a "thing" in the 1980s, torque steer was a huge issue. If it hits at the wrong time, it will put you in the ditch when you thought you were going to go straight. The bigger the turbo lag and surge, the higher the risk of torque steer catching you by surprise as well.

The biggest strategy to solve torque steer was equal-length axles, but it still remains an issue. Limiting torque in lower gears is another way to control it, but with a performance penalty obviously.

theoffice
07-24-2016, 06:52 PM
Good Win Racing, I wonder, when you installed the springs was there a very noticeable difference in handling or is it just for looks? I don't know that much about this stuff, I am just curious if it made the car any more fun to drive. Also, with the sway bar combo kit, did it make a big difference that made it a lot more fun to drive and noticeable?

jguerdat
07-25-2016, 07:33 AM
No, torque steer.


Ok, now I understand. I'm very familiar with torque steer, just didn't get that from the initial oversteer statement.

Good-Win Racing
07-26-2016, 06:21 PM
Springs made a BIG reduction in body lean, the car attacks a freeway ramp much better than before. Sways already 'upgraded' as compared to the Miata version of the same chassis (Fiat gets 14mm rear sway, ND Miata only 11mm). Thus, with just the springs the car is already so quick in the turns that I am not sure how many will bother with sways unless doing autocross or track days too. Thus, if not planning to race my suggestion is start with just the springs and drive the car and ask yourself if you want it even more flat in the turns.

Spring rates!

OEM Fiat 124
F) 160
R) 85

OEM MX5 (non-club model)
F) 156
R) 80

Progress Springs
F) 185
R) 115

http://www.mazdatalkforum.com/download/file.php?id=3795&t=1

Good-Win Racing
07-26-2016, 06:25 PM
Another day, another 12.25 pounds off our Fiat 124! Over 64 pounds shed...feels great.

Rear Brakes Complete!

HEAVY STOCK Rear Brakes:

http://www.mazdatalkforum.com/download/file.php?id=3766&t=1


NEW Light FOUR Piston Rear Brakes:
http://www.mazdatalkforum.com/download/file.php?id=3767&t=1

And it looks great too! Shown here with factory Fiat 124 16 inch wheels (needs 3mm spacer to clear the brakes), and our Progress Lowering Springs!

http://www.mazdatalkforum.com/download/file.php?id=3768&t=1
http://www.mazdatalkforum.com/download/file.php?id=3769&t=1

Klasse Act
07-26-2016, 06:41 PM
Springs made a BIG reduction in body lean, the car attacks a freeway ramp much better than before. Sways already 'upgraded' as compared to the Miata version of the same chassis (Fiat gets 14mm rear sway, ND Miata only 11mm). Thus, with just the springs the car is already so quick in the turns that I am not sure how many will bother with sways unless doing autocross or track days too. Thus, if not planning to race my suggestion is start with just the springs and drive the car and ask yourself if you want it even more flat in the turns.

Spring rates!

OEM Fiat 124
F) 160
R) 85

OEM MX5 (non-club model)
F) 156
R) 80

Progress Springs
F) 185
R) 115

http://www.mazdatalkforum.com/download/file.php?id=3795&t=1

I'm really enjoying this thread! I may not be in the market for one but I like how things are progessing along here. I like these wheels the best without a doubt and those silver tuner style wheels are a close second, keep up the good work, it will pay off for you and those looking to take their 124 to the next level. I'm going to be at the inlaws this weekend and there's a Fiat dealership down the street from them and I don't usually do this but I'd like to take one for a test drive, stick only though!

Sammy124
10-06-2016, 12:41 PM
@Good-Win Racing

So glad to see the 124 thread topics further spread out.. I had forgotten about this one already! Just wondering how the product line is progressing. We haven't heard from you in a while here.

Good-Win Racing
10-07-2016, 10:38 AM
This is complete Cat-Back Exhaust (stock cat still in there, this is all bolted to exit of stock cat).

That means THREE PIECES
1. Highflow Downpipe
2. Highflow Midpipe
3. Highflow Muffler.

Result is new HIGH For Fiat 124, 160 HP at the wheels, 200 FT/LBS Torque pushing you back in the seat! Felt good at the SCCA event last weekend so figured it was time to dyno the setup, and now I see why it felt good, that's some healthy torque. Total area under the curve does NOT yet match our tuned longtube ND but this Fiat is not yet tuned, this is still stock tune, which means this is CARB compliant power!

http://www.mazdatalkforum.com/download/file.php?id=3857&t=1 (http://www.mazdatalkforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=3567&start=30)

Lowest Line is Best STOCK Pull
Middle Line is Best Pull with just highflow Muffler Upgrade
Highest Line is Best Pull Full Downpipe, Midpipe, Muffler...Peak HP up 'only' about 15hp but notice total area under the torque curve is massively better, up over 30 Ft/lbs of torque through much of the middle rpm range, peak gains over 50 Ft/lbs down low thanks to faster turbo spool.

Good-Win Racing
10-07-2016, 10:44 AM
http://www.mazdatalkforum.com/download/file.php?id=3951
Other updates:

We added limited slip.
Completed our Exhaust Systems

(http://www.good-win-racing.com/Mazda-Performance-Parts/Fiat124/Exhaust.html)

Good-Win Racing
10-07-2016, 10:47 AM
RoadsterSport Fiat 124 Exhaust System by Good-Win Racing

First link is camera on bumper first Fiat 124 SCCA Autocross Day
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEXAFemoCTM" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEXAFemoCTM
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEXAFemoCTM)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7pnnJqW2QU

Good-Win Racing
10-07-2016, 10:52 AM
Picture from first SCCA Day for FIAT 124 in the USA! Our Fiat 124 finished in the trophies at first event.
The KONI SPORT Shocks get a lot of the credit, technical details on the KONI below.

http://www.mazdatalkforum.com/download/file.php?id=3844&t=1

Damping Force Comparison Chart.

Dyno sheet showing the rebound (top side) and compression (bottom side) and a number chart. It shows the OE 124 Tokicos, the standard model ND Tokicos (basically the same rebound but 124 compression is notably softer front and rear) as well as the OE ND Club Bilsteins (not Cup as marked, not to be confused with MX5 Cup racing shocks) and the KONI Sports adjusted to the full soft setting. The chart is in Newtons of force and Meters per second of piston speed. The general rule of thumb is that the KONI Sportís maximum adjustment is about double the min setting pretty much across the piston speed range which means that it is quite wide and more than covers the front Clubís rebound force once adjuster into the range. You can also see that the front Clubís compression force is really extremely high which accounts for lots of harshness and the great disparity from the aggressive Club front valving to the not particularly aggressive Club rear. The KONI valving even at full soft is much more balanced end to end (identical in bump, different in rebound) with Sport rear higher in bump and rebound even at full soft vs. the Club rear.

http://www.mazdatalkforum.com/download/file.php?id=3879&t=1

Good-Win Racing
10-08-2016, 03:00 PM
Looking good. Work to do but I like how it is looking so far...

Watch our Fiat 124 Project Thread for Updates. (http://www.mazdatalkforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=3567&start=30)

http://www.mazdatalkforum.com/download/file.php?id=3999&t=1
http://www.mazdatalkforum.com/download/file.php?id=3998&t=1

Good-Win Racing
10-31-2016, 09:43 AM
Hi Guys

Great news for the many waiting with orders in our system, our factory starts shipping the RoadsterSport Quad and Dual muffler deletes today!


Midpipes and Crosspipes are still in production and likely start shipping in about 2 weeks.

Good-Win Racing
11-06-2016, 08:08 PM
Getting daily requests for more videos...including LOTS of requests for videos from the bumper. I think our videos from in the cabin give you guys a much more accurate sample of what really reaches your ears, but by popular demand here is the full system with single tip at the back (full system with quad tip is same sound).


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNTjc4vOjBY

Good-Win Racing
11-14-2016, 02:25 PM
Bronze 6UL 17x9 with 255/35/17 Tires
Our RACE Spec Springs (Prototype, Coming to Site in 30 days), Rates 300 Front, 200 Rear
Koni SPORT Adjustable Shocks

Looks Amazing, Sticks the Corners!

http://www.mazdatalkforum.com/download/file.php?id=4118&t=1

Had these on our ND for Superlap Time Attack Battle last week (fastest Miata at the event), pic below, looking forward to some autocross fun in the Fiat with these.
http://www.mazdatalkforum.com/download/file.php?id=4112&t=1

Good-Win Racing
11-14-2016, 02:38 PM
Another Angle...

http://www.mazdatalkforum.com/download/file.php?id=4120&t=1