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ronbo10
08-27-2016, 11:52 AM
It's that time of the year again where this mag puts out a little blurb on each vehicle that will be for sale in 2017 (I think they did sedans and the like the previous issue- this time around it's SUV's, CUV's etc.).

For the Fiat 500X they characterized the changes as "minor", with the reduction in trim levels from 5 to 3, Pop, Lounge and Trekking will be all that's sold for MY 2017. However, they also stated that most options will be available across the board on all trim levels. Time will tell as to how accurate their information is.

I don't suppose that means they'll make the 1.4 liter turbo currently offered only in Pop trim available in other trim levels, or at least available with an automatic transmission in the Pop. I don't see it as likely, but you never know. In other markets, the 1.4 liter turbo 'petrol' engine is the most powerful available to those consumers, and (as I recall) can be found with either a DDCT or the ZF 9-speed, depending on the market.

I really like the 1.4 liter turbo in our 500L, but I do like the 2.4 liter in the 500X as well. Still, it'd be nice to have the option.

Xtreme500
08-27-2016, 01:57 PM
That's interesting since I have an easy model. I wonder if that would increase the rarity? I am also curious to see the color line up.

pkgmsu2000
08-28-2016, 01:30 PM
regarding the 1.4T... i dont think they will offer AWD with turbo, but if FIAT had any common sense, they would offer at least some upgrade options for the 1.4T:
- navigation, bluetooth, more tech
- leather seats
- sunroof
- wheels and tires

those are no brainers in my opinion, none of which are available as factory options on MY2016

randY49
08-29-2016, 09:44 AM
I could see the 1.4T going away completely in the X. If they're already shrinking the number of models, they have to be looking at cost reduction to produce them. Having only one engine option (which is pretty standard in the subcompact CUV class) would reduce cost even more. Just my .02

As for the 1.4T with AWD, doesn't Renegade have that setup available? Seems weird that they would include it in one and not the other.

bryanintowson
08-29-2016, 10:34 AM
They need the 1.4 to make CAFE standards.

pkgmsu2000
08-29-2016, 02:39 PM
They need the 1.4 to make CAFE standards.

if thats true, than why is FCA discontinuing the dart (up to 40mpg) and the 200 (up to 37mpg) ???? removing these 2 cars leaves FCA with Fiats as the only cars to meet CAFE standards???

datasage
08-29-2016, 07:14 PM
if thats true, than why is FCA discontinuing the dart (up to 40mpg) and the 200 (up to 37mpg) ???? removing these 2 cars leaves FCA with Fiats as the only cars to meet CAFE standards???

The Dart and the 200 are being discontinued to open up more production capacity for Jeep.

ronbo10
08-29-2016, 10:41 PM
if thats true, than why is FCA discontinuing the dart (up to 40mpg) and the 200 (up to 37mpg) ???? removing these 2 cars leaves FCA with Fiats as the only cars to meet CAFE standards???

It's possible that now that the Feds have backed off of their mandate for a CAFE figure of 50mpg for manufacturers by the year 2025 (backing off to what, I still don't know), FCA have been let off the hook (for the time being at least), so now they can loose 2 unprofitable cars and concentrate on producing vehicles that are profitable for them.

As I recall, the Dart 1.4 liter was thrown together by Sergio and company as part of a restructuring plan that was needed to appease the Obama Administration before Chrysler (still an independent company, but bankrupt) could receive a Federal bailout some years back. Sergio had to show that the new company going forward, later to be named FCA, would be greener than its predecessor, as well as leaner.

I remember reading an interview of Mr. Marchione where he stated that the 1.4 liter/DDCT engine/transmission combo was a bad fit for the U.S. market, but he had to do it for this reason.

randY49
08-30-2016, 09:33 AM
It's possible that now that the Feds have backed off of their mandate for a CAFE figure of 50mpg for manufacturers by the year 2025 (backing off to what, I still don't know), FCA have been let off the hook (for the time being at least), so now they can loose 2 unprofitable cars and concentrate on producing vehicles that are profitable for them.

As I recall, the Dart 1.4 liter was thrown together by Sergio and company as part of a restructuring plan that was needed to appease the Obama Administration before Chrysler (still an independent company, but bankrupt) could receive a Federal bailout some years back. Sergio had to show that the new company going forward, later to be named FCA, would be greener than its predecessor, as well as leaner.

I remember reading an interview of Mr. Marchione where he stated that the 1.4 liter/DDCT engine/transmission combo was a bad fit for the U.S. market, but he had to do it for this reason.
The original CAFE mandate was 54.5 mpg by 2025. During the mid-term review that happened earlier this year, they considered backing that down to between 50.0 and 52.6 (the report is open to public comment until mid-September) so not a huge difference. Here is an article talking about that: http://autoweek.com/article/car-news/buyer-appetite-takes-545-mpg-target-table-us-regulators-say

The thing about CAFE is that there are different standards for passenger cars versus light trucks (which includes 500X size on up to F-150 size), and further differentiation between sizes of those based on foot-print. For example, a 500X would have to achieve a higher mpg than an F-150. CAFE is the reason the full-size truck has grown as much as it has, because the larger the footprint, the lower the target mpg. I've heard a few discussions on this, mostly from Autoline.tv, here are some links: http://www.autoline.tv/show/2017, http://www.autoline.tv/journal/?p=43671

To get this CAFE talk back to this thread, FCA is going to stop building the Dart and 200, but they are looking for a partner to build passenger cars for them. Probably something similar to the deal they have with Mazda for the 124, so they will have passenger cars in their portfolio.

Getting back to the original comment about needing the 1.4T in the 500X, it only achieves 3 mpg better than the 2.4 with FWD and then you have to factor in how many are sold. With it only coming in a manual, sales have to be SMALL, I would be shocked if it affected CAFE by more than 0.1 mpg.

ronbo10
08-30-2016, 01:53 PM
The original CAFE mandate was 54.5 mpg by 2025. During the mid-term review that happened earlier this year, they considered backing that down to between 50.0 and 52.6 (the report is open to public comment until mid-September) so not a huge difference. Here is an article talking about that: http://autoweek.com/article/car-news/buyer-appetite-takes-545-mpg-target-table-us-regulators-say

The thing about CAFE is that there are different standards for passenger cars versus light trucks (which includes 500X size on up to F-150 size), and further differentiation between sizes of those based on foot-print. For example, a 500X would have to achieve a higher mpg than an F-150. CAFE is the reason the full-size truck has grown as much as it has, because the larger the footprint, the lower the target mpg. I've heard a few discussions on this, mostly from Autoline.tv, here are some links: http://www.autoline.tv/show/2017, http://www.autoline.tv/journal/?p=43671

To get this CAFE talk back to this thread, FCA is going to stop building the Dart and 200, but they are looking for a partner to build passenger cars for them. Probably something similar to the deal they have with Mazda for the 124, so they will have passenger cars in their portfolio.

Getting back to the original comment about needing the 1.4T in the 500X, it only achieves 3 mpg better than the 2.4 with FWD and then you have to factor in how many are sold. With it only coming in a manual, sales have to be SMALL, I would be shocked if it affected CAFE by more than 0.1 mpg.

Nice to read informed contributions to this thread (which doesn't describe mine, I'm afraid). Interesting- I was about to write at some length on how difficult it will be to reach this 2025 CAFE target, but after watching the Autoline interview of Margo Oge, it sounds more within the realm of possibilities than I would have imagined. Time will tell, but one salient point from that interview is that this CAFE target (whatever it ends up being) of 50-54.5 mpg is a target, not a mandate per se. For example, the actual target for a given vehicle will be dependent on the footprint of that vehicle, so for a full-sized pick up truck (for instance) the target will be (as I recall) about 33 mpg. I think this mid-term review that is referred to in the interview will be looking at a number of factors that might have that target number lowered, in particular the move in the marketplace toward more SUV's and CUV's and away from passenger cars.