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View Full Version : 500x finished second of the group of compact SUVs on Motorweek.



zvez
12-19-2015, 02:38 PM
Maybe old news, but pleased to see Motorweek gave 2nd place in a test of a group of compact SUVs.

My wife loves hers and doesn't miss her Prius a bit.

http://www.motorweek.org/reviews/comparison_tests/subcompact-suv-challenge
Chris

datasage
12-19-2015, 04:19 PM
The cars.com article related to this was posted a week or so ago: http://www.fiat500usaforum.com/showthread.php?23523-Cars-com-500x-Ranked-2nd-amoung-CUV-s

zvez
12-21-2015, 01:00 PM
my bad I must missed that! thks!

Chris


The cars.com article related to this was posted a week or so ago: http://www.fiat500usaforum.com/showthread.php?23523-Cars-com-500x-Ranked-2nd-amoung-CUV-s

smark
12-21-2015, 02:52 PM
Car and Driver, wasn't that generous. On its review of the 500X.

zvez
12-21-2015, 06:43 PM
Car and Driver, wasn't that generous. On its review of the 500X.

just one more reason why I"ve never been a fan of Car and Driver.........

Fiat500USA
12-21-2015, 11:50 PM
You have to always keep in mind that there is a generation of reviewers that have no experience with any other cars other than homogenized Asian/American and even German cars. What they know about Fiats is tainted by the hearsay of those who never owned a Fiat or owned a 20 year old roach of a car. Anything with flavor that is different they can't get their head around and is subject to getting trashed because it is different. Take what you read in the US/UK media with a grain of salt. I would supplement what you read here with other reviews in Europe to get a broader base of understanding about the cars. Some guys get it and some don't.

zvez
12-22-2015, 07:15 AM
can't think that I was ever influenced in purchase of a car or motorcycle by anything read in a magazine. Everyone has varying opinions and nothing wrong with that. My wife and I are quite pleased with our 500x and I enjoyed my abarth..


You have to always keep in mind that there is a generation of reviewers that have no experience with any other cars other than homogenized Asian/American and even German cars. What they know about Fiats is tainted by the hearsay of those who never owned a Fiat or owned a 20 year old roach of a car. Anything with flavor that is different they can't get their head around and is subject to getting trashed because it is different. Take what you read in the US/UK media with a grain of salt. I would supplement what you read here with other reviews in Europe to get a broader base of understanding about the cars. Some guys get it and some don't.

Fiat500USA
12-22-2015, 09:26 AM
You just want these opinions not based on the prejudice of preconceived notions. This effects all of us and especially those who are long term owners. A perfect example is how the 500X is highly rated in Motorweek, etc. but is trashed in Car&Driver and CR. There's a disconnect there and it's not hard to figure out why. The ghosts of the past have powerful proponents. Hopefully the happy owners can drown out these naysayers.

Amacento
12-22-2015, 11:13 AM
Positive-to-negative reviews of the 500X are about 50/50. Some reviews (positive or negative) are based on the car while others are based on criteria that has very little to do with the model and more to do with non-automotive opinions. In the end, as F500USA puts it, the actual owners of the cars will have the last word. On forums... where many people go to complain... the overwhelming majority of threads/posts remain positive nearly 6 years after the reintroduction. That is the one sign that should have every true enthusiast rejoicing.

No other automaker in history has successfully returned to the US. With the successful merge and fine reboot of CDJR, FIAT S.p.A. is in good shape. The 500X is proof in the pudding.

smark
12-22-2015, 11:57 AM
I not usually lock into one reviewers opinion. I prescribe to Motor Trend, Automobile, Car and Driver. Watch Velocity channel. I been viewing Motor Week since the 80's. Motor Week is really kind, on what it reviews. Compared to the other automotive media. A nice balance of information is welcome. I not keen, on individual internet reviews. Where the the tester is not a professional journalist. Personal blog pages, are just regurgitated information. After reading numerous reviews. I usually test drive the vehicle, more then once. Being in the car business years ago. I try to be thorough with my findings. Validate, if there comments, are true or false. Out of 40 new cars, owned. I've only been burnt only 3 times.

At the moment, the 500X is the star of the Fiat brand here, compared to the other two models.

Amacento
12-22-2015, 12:24 PM
To be fair, because "there is nothing new under the sun", all information is regurgitated. The way we communicate is a mishmash of everything we've ever heard and/or read. The fact any blog/site gets some information from another source (books, magazines, internet) has little to no bearing on the quality and value of the reporting. Why read any magazine or book if there is no value in regurgitated info? Just stick to manufacturer manuals and personal test drives.

Many "professional journalists" have not studied journalism or even creative writing. This is especially true when it comes to automotive journalism. Instead, in many cases, the "journalist" is an enthusiast and/or the occasional former professional tech/driver.

Personally, I consider a "nice balance" to be info from many international sources. Subscribing to US-only, UK-only or EU-only magazines leaves one with a one-sided POV. In the US, we have very wide roads & highways. In most, not all, EU cities the roads & highways are tighter. Those facts feed design/engineering philosophies. Needs and values differ by region and cultures. Rating the value of a thing without considering all that went into producing said thing leaves the review flat and lacking any substantial validity.

The 500X is a vehicle that strives to meet needs on a global level (not just Europe, South America, North America or Asia). that is bold and deserves more than descriptors like "funky", "quirky", etc.

smark
12-22-2015, 01:09 PM
The same C&D article. They rated the HR-Z second to the last. Honda's laughing at them, all the way to the bank.

datasage
12-22-2015, 01:30 PM
Personally, I consider a "nice balance" to be info from many international sources. Subscribing to US-only, UK-only or EU-only magazines leaves one with a one-sided POV. In the US, we have very wide roads & highways. In most, not all, EU cities the roads & highways are tighter. Those facts feed design/engineering philosophies. Needs and values differ by region and cultures. Rating the value of a thing without considering all that went into producing said thing leaves the review flat and lacking any substantial validity.

Some features and options vary by region. Reviews from other regions have to be taken with a grain of salt. The 500x has mostly 1 engine choice in north america (1.4T is only on the pop), but 3 in Europe. The European choices have less power on average.

Amacento
12-22-2015, 02:05 PM
smark & datasage ~ Good points.

datasage Re; features and options by region. You're 100% correct. This illustrates what I meant in the complete post you quoted. One can draw pertinent info from various sources and piece together a more complete "review". Before the 500 arrived on our shores, most of us read European reviews. As info about the NA version leaked, most of us added that info to what we already read and so on. Usually, all but powertrains are near identical. The "global" statement can be applied. The powertrain really comes down to "does it meet the average driver's needs" and not so much "does it meet my personal reviewer preferences". Only driving a vehicle in one region and/or in limited situations doesn't really afford a well-rounded review.

I enjoy TFLCar reviews because they do extended trials (0-60 shorts, back roads, highways... sometimes cross country). They tend to try and create all the scenarios the engineers had in mind while designing a car. Good or bad -- it is more clearly revealed that way (as opposed to some of the other reviews I read/see).

Fiat500USA
12-22-2015, 04:02 PM
The journalists all sit through the same product briefings and are given the same information, so a lot is going to be familiar. To counter that, I try to bring readers some extra details and maybe something that the others don't get or pay attention to in these briefings. Maybe its a picture, or a spec or a detail I think Fiat enthusiasts will find interesting.

I also enjoy TFLCar and Roman and Nathan's reviews. They are both good natured, and I like Roman's take on cars. I think his experience with European cars gives him a depth of knowledge on what he reviews.

Personally, I prefer European cars. I like the driving experience, the innovation, design and heritage. I appreciate something unique and not mainstream. I don't want to drive something that appeals to the masses. I can't stand boring cars and uninteresting designs.

Amacento
12-22-2015, 04:29 PM
The journalists all sit through the same product briefings and are given the same information, so a lot is going to be familiar. To counter that, I try to bring readers some extra details and maybe something that the others don't get or pay attention to in these briefings. Maybe its a picture, or a spec or a detail I think Fiat enthusiasts will find interesting.
Thanks for confirming the regurgitation of info (from journalists). I enjoy your previews/reviews and other articles. The technical info is helpful and the personal touch provides some entertainment.

ronbo10
12-22-2015, 11:23 PM
Along with Alex on Autos, as wellas TFL Car, another reviewer I've come to respect is Saabkyle4 on youtube. He is typically very "kind" to the vehicles he reviews, so any misgivings he does have, however kindly put, carry a little more weight for me. To boot, he seems like a genuinely decent and nice young man. His reviews are very thorough, and he's developed his own style and almost systematic way of going about them. He's actually a pharmacist by training, though his youtube channel has come to pretty much take up all of his time. His wife is also a pharmacist.

Here he reviews the 500X, which is one of the more positive reviews of the X you'll find out there. His viewpoint on cars in general (from what I can glean), is at least in some ways more aligned with my own relative to those of your mainstream auto journalists. He seems to have an appreciation for cars that some might consider to be a bit quirky- cars that are intended to appeal to folks looking for something a little different. See what you think.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=267KyGBnGqA

Rags747
12-23-2015, 08:39 AM
Along with Alex on Autos, as wellas TFL Car, another reviewer I've come to respect is Saabkyle4 on youtube. He is typically very "kind" to the vehicles he reviews, so any misgivings he does have, however kindly put, carry a little more weight for me. To boot, he seems like a genuinely decent and nice young man. His reviews are very thorough, and he's developed his own style and almost systematic way of going about them. He's actually a pharmacist by training, though his youtube channel has come to pretty much take up all of his time. His wife is also a pharmacist.


Here he reviews the 500X, which is one of the more positive reviews of the X you'll find out there. His viewpoint on cars in general (from what I can glean), is at least in some ways more aligned with my own relative to those of your mainstream auto journalists. He seems to have an appreciation for cars that some might consider to be a bit quirky- cars that are intended to appeal to folks looking for something a little different. See what you think.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=267KyGBnGqA

Agreed, I like his reviews as well...I now follow him on FB.

smark
12-23-2015, 12:48 PM
Here in KC, you can buy that 500X, for discount price of $4,800. You use that extra cash save for the factory power sunroof.

ronbo10
12-23-2015, 05:53 PM
Here in KC, you can buy that 500X, for discount price of $4,800. You use that extra cash save for the factory power sunroof.

Yes, it would appear that the marketplace has spoken- the 500X is a bit overpriced. It'll be interesting to see if they reduce the MSRP across the line. To fetch a premium over competitors' offerings, you have to punch above your weight, which in some respects I think the 500X actually does, though the press and marketplace don't seem to agree with me here.

Still think it's a great car, though I'm going to wait to see what they bring to the table with the Abarth. I think the reports of 170hp are probably speculation- don't see where dropping the NA market 500X hp figure by 10 hp being worthy of the Abarth name, so they're going to have to come up with something that looks better on paper than that. Someone here suggested perhaps the 1.7 liter from the Alfa 4C, though that might make the car too expensive for my blood.

Amacento
12-23-2015, 06:34 PM
I don't think the market has spoken at all. A good percentage of FIAT USA sales are the X. It's discounted, because we're in December... that's par for course.

The hp reports are likely EU ABARTH. They're not going to drop hp in the NA version.

The sky is not falling.

Fiat500USA
12-24-2015, 12:26 AM
Thanks for confirming the regurgitation of info (from journalists). I enjoy your previews/reviews and other articles. The technical info is helpful and the personal touch provides some entertainment.


Thanks for the kind words. I really appreciate you along with everyone visiting the site!

Here is a little behind the scenes of the 500X press event and some slides showing where the 500X fits into the Fiat lineup. You can also watch the actual press conference we sat through.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-hDAeKPjaWG0/VTBWlXJ8kSI/AAAAAAAAcjg/lLFj8vyBQx0/s800-Ic42/Fiat_500X_Press_Event%252520%2525286%252529tt.jpg


https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-6W7-uF9lShI/VTBY182ynQI/AAAAAAAAcik/5h7_Vhi13UQ/s800-Ic42/Fiat_500X_Press_Event%252520%2525284%252529.JPG


https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-7LPJOEBy7Lg/VTBWS5kUFiI/AAAAAAAAcj4/nfDlWq1N4lE/s700-Ic42/Fiat_500X_Press_Event%252520%2525287%252529t.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-3RB7hH-JkNc/VTBV64ndpII/AAAAAAAAshA/-RlNAWeKbKs/s800-Ic42/Fiat_500X_Press_Event%252520%2525289%252529.JPG




http://youtu.be/Pdh65d2mW84

Jason Stoicevich introduces the 500X.


http://youtu.be/WSzfQehMEN8

Matt Davis, Head of Product Planning


http://youtu.be/2dgAKjy79RY

Danilo Tossetti, 500X Senior Designer of the 500X


http://youtu.be/6M4YMurCj_I

Art Anderson, Engineering Vehicle Line Executive for the 500X


videos from Javier Mota (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCj2ZmTR5LgHjRuR8H-WffAw)

Fiat500USA
12-24-2015, 02:13 AM
I don't think the market has spoken at all. A good percentage of FIAT USA sales are the X. It's discounted, because we're in December... that's par for course.

The hp reports are likely EU ABARTH. They're not going to drop hp in the NA version.

The sky is not falling.

I agree. I don't think the market has spoken yet. I think the dealers need to get the word out about what separates the 500X from the competition. The European driving characteristics. The unmatched features in its class. The only car in its class to get a top Safety Pick Plus rating. Class leading NVH and torsional rigidity. If someone wants something that is not boring, mundane or seen on every street corner the 500X is on a very short list.

Also, we may not get a 500X Abarth. There may be a performance 500X but minus the Abarth name...

ronbo10
12-24-2015, 02:31 AM
I don't think the market has spoken at all. A good percentage of FIAT USA sales are the X. It's discounted, because we're in December... that's par for course....
The sky is not falling.

I had no intention of suggesting that things are dire for the X or the marque at all. I do imagine that dealers and fans of the Fiat brand would like to see the X do better, and hopefully in time it will gain more traction in the marketplace. $4,800 is not representative of the discounts I'm seeing in my neck of the woods (SE Pennsy), more like $2,500 or so in December 2015. I'll be watching in earnest to see how the X is doing after a year or so in the NA market. Of course I hope it succeeds- I really like the car. Owners' reports have been almost universally positive, so word of mouth should help over the longer term. Maybe over time sales volume will reach that critical mass that Fiat is looking for- this may require some patience though.

datasage
12-24-2015, 02:58 AM
I had no intention of suggesting that things are dire for the X or the marque at all. I do imagine that dealers and fans of the Fiat brand would like to see the X do better, and hopefully in time it will gain more traction in the marketplace. $4,800 is not representative of the discounts I'm seeing in my neck of the woods (SE Pennsy), more like $2,500 or so in December 2015. I'll be watching in earnest to see how the X is doing after a year or so in the NA market. Of course I hope it succeeds- I really like the car. Owners' reports have been almost universally positive, so word of mouth should help over the longer term. Maybe over time sales volume will reach that critical mass that Fiat is looking for- this may require some patience though.

$2000 is the default discount here, you can qualify for a bit more with lease conquest and/or being a military member. Discounts though are often a pricing strategy. If you price something $2000 more, but sell it with a $2000 discount, most people will perceive that they getting a better deal, than they would without a discount.

zvez
12-24-2015, 05:14 AM
Throw into the equation the spottiness of the dealer network, here in my town, the studio is attached to a dodge dealership, NO ONE that works there EVER goes into that studio (is sales staff). They've got no dedicated fiat sales guy, the service dept is awful. I went 150 miles for my second Fiat to a great studio (Fiat Birmingham).

Poor dealership experience has to be a huge factor in sales.

Chris


I agree. I don't think the market has spoken yet. I think the dealers need to get the word out about what separates the 500X from the competition. The European driving characteristics. The unmatched features in its class. The only car in its class to get a top Safety Pick Plus rating. Class leading NVH and torsional rigidity. If someone wants something that is not boring, mundane or seen on every street corner the 500X is on a very short list.

Also, we may not get a 500X Abarth. There may be a performance 500X but minus the Abarth name...

smark
12-24-2015, 11:58 AM
Fiat done more TV advertising on the 500X, then any of the other 2 models. We test drove all the small crossovers. Before for buying a new car 3 months ago. The 500X drove really nice. Small cargo space. Very $$$$. The Honda HRZ had the best build quality. Largest cargo space. Lacked power, Loaded $26K. Not one on the lot to buy. All sold. Every time our 500L was in the shop. The dealer leant us a new Kia Soul, from Enterprise. None turbo car. Great price, everything worked. We looked also at the Jeep Renegade, My daughter mention, it looked like a Soul on crack. The dealer is 2 blocks from the house. Where the old Fiat studio, was. I knew their service department too well. We like the looks of the Jeep over the 500X. Drove nice too, lots of cargo space. $$$$ too. The Chevy looked boring. The Mazda, was not out yet. From the reviews small cargo space. Mazda's are fun to drive.

Now since our Fiat studio, have discounted all the 500X $4,800 bucks. Might been a good time to buy one. That's if the studio going to be around.

Amacento
12-24-2015, 02:54 PM
I had no intention of suggesting that things are dire for the X or the marque at all. I do imagine that dealers and fans of the Fiat brand would like to see the X do better, and hopefully in time it will gain more traction in the marketplace. $4,800 is not representative of the discounts I'm seeing in my neck of the woods (SE Pennsy), more like $2,500 or so in December 2015. I'll be watching in earnest to see how the X is doing after a year or so in the NA market. Of course I hope it succeeds- I really like the car. Owners' reports have been almost universally positive, so word of mouth should help over the longer term. Maybe over time sales volume will reach that critical mass that Fiat is looking for- this may require some patience though.
Knee jerk reaction. Every time I see "The market has spoken" and FIAT in the same sentence, my brain says "Her we go again."

It's early in the game and Francios Olivier has said FIAT will fill a niche in the FCA range for North America. I'm sure any/every automaker wants every model to sell like gangbusters, but people ought to realize by now FIAT is an integral part of the greater FCA family for the US market. It's no longer FIAT on its own with tiny city cars. There is a complete range that meets all needs. I wish the case was different and conservatively sized cars were the norm. Alas, that is even changing in Europe. We saw more 500Ls, 500Xs and Renegades than any other FIAT. We were in Slovenia and Italy… lots of FIATs to be had.

It's definitely a game of patience. Cheers!

ronbo10
12-24-2015, 04:08 PM
... I wish the case was different and conservatively sized cars were the norm. Alas, that is even changing in Europe. We saw more 500Ls, 500Xs and Renegades than any other FIAT. We were in Slovenia and Italy… lots of FIATs to be had.


I got a chuckle out of this. Whenever I see an Escalade or the like I typically think, "Look at that tank! And I'll bet practically speaking it's not that much bigger inside that this L!!!" Never stopped to think that maybe folks in Italy in their Pandas and Cinquencentos when seeing a 500L/X Renegade think, "Look at that Tank! I'll bet etc. etc...."

Amacento
12-24-2015, 07:07 PM
I got a chuckle out of this. Whenever I see an Escalade or the like I typically think, "Look at that tank! And I'll bet practically speaking it's not that much bigger inside that this L!!!" Never stopped to think that maybe folks in Italy in their Pandas and Cinquencentos when seeing a 500L/X Renegade think, "Look at that Tank! I'll bet etc. etc...."
HaHa! Yup… In Europe, those are bigger cars. Sedans, of course, are also bigger in some countries than in others (we spent time in Austria & Croatia as well). The missus is from Europe… we were visiting family. Great times… fantastic driving! Boy, USAmericans are horrible drivers (don't respect and follow the rules/laws of the road).