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Wolfepaw
12-24-2014, 11:20 AM
My wife took my 500L in for an oil change while I was at work and the service manager noticed I had not completed the recalls yet. She explained to him the difficulty of getting it in for the several hours required with the work schedule we have. He offered to have it done the next AM early without hesitation. That's a new experience for me since it took 7 weeks to get an appointment for my regular 500 when it needed a warranty repair. She brought in the 500L the next AM and did nothing but rave about how great they were to her. Kudos to Fiat of Kirkland for going out of there way to get this done for us and so quickly. They had her out the door in 2 hours. They completed a couple software updates as well while they had it. There is a noticeable difference in how the transmission behaves. The transition between gears is much smoother and it is less touchy on when it shifts. The Uconnect is noticeably better as well. It's almost like having a new car!

I know the 500L has been beat up a bit for some of the glitches, but I can honestly say after 40K miles with one, I can't complain one bit. It's fun to drive, great on some very long trips I've taken and you can't beat the room. I still get people who ask me about it all the time or I see them peeking inside it in parking lots. It's a unique vehicle that I am proud to own. Now if I can just convince the wife to let me add the Abarth to my fleet of Fiats! :)

DDT
12-24-2014, 01:05 PM
Wolfepaw,

That's great news. It's awesome to hear that your 500L has 40K miles on it and you didn't have a problem with the DDCT (I assume that it is the Euro-Twin automatic based on your comments.) without the recall being performed on the car. That makes me wonder when your car was manufactured. I've posted on another thread some of the documents from Chrysler to the NHTSA about the Safety Recall P06 / NHTSA 14V-103 Automatic Transaxle Gear Shift Module the target dates of manufacture are roughly between April 2013 to February 2014. What manufacture date does the plaque on the driver's door jamb say?

I do share your enthusiasm for the 500L, it is a really cool car. Unfortunately, for myself and others, there have been substantial problems with the DDCT. Such a shame that they put a Dodge Dart transmission in a wonderful piece of Italian engineering. You know that the European 500Ls don't suffer from the same problem with the transmission that the North America models do.

Wolfepaw
12-24-2014, 01:44 PM
Wolfepaw,

That's great news. It's awesome to hear that your 500L has 40K miles on it and you didn't have a problem with the DDCT (I assume that it is the Euro-Twin automatic based on your comments.) without the recall being performed on the car. That makes me wonder when your car was manufactured. I've posted on another thread some of the documents from Chrysler to the NHTSA about the Safety Recall P06 / NHTSA 14V-103 Automatic Transaxle Gear Shift Module the target dates of manufacture are roughly between April 2013 to February 2014. What manufacture date does the plaque on the driver's door jamb say?

I do share your enthusiasm for the 500L, it is a really cool car. Unfortunately, for myself and others, there have been substantial problems with the DDCT. Such a shame that they put a Dodge Dart transmission in a wonderful piece of Italian engineering. You know that the European 500Ls don't suffer from the same problem with the transmission that the North America models do.

It was the first one my dealership sold. I bought it the week they went up for sale. My VIN starts with ZFA which is Italy. Since I never experienced any issues with my Euro-Twin or many of the other issues people have reported, I assumed mine was a rare model actually from Italy and not one from the "other" plants. My other Fiats do not start with ZFA for the VIN.

DDT
12-24-2014, 01:57 PM
Interesting point. Mine starts with the ZFB. Do you have the date of manufacture? It is on the plaque on the drivers side door jamb. I really do think that there is a difference in DDCT problems based on Manufacture date. That ZFA VIN is interesting. So does the country of origin not have Serbia? It is also on the plaque with the date of manufacture .

BTW, do you mind of I share your post on the other FIAT 500 forum? Or do you post there as well? A member in Quebec and I have been posting about the DDCT problems and how his 500L that was built in April 2013 has not problems and as I'm sure you know the weather extremes in Quebec are much more pronounced that here in North Carolina.

Wolfepaw
12-24-2014, 02:26 PM
I have my Fiat 500 Sport today I drove to work so I can't look at the plaque on the L. I don't mind if share to other outlets. I only belong to this forum group. I'll take a peek at that plaque when I get a chance. It will be interesting to see if it says Serbia or not.

Fiat500USA
12-30-2014, 03:55 PM
Wolfepaw,

That's great news. It's awesome to hear that your 500L has 40K miles on it and you didn't have a problem with the DDCT (I assume that it is the Euro-Twin automatic based on your comments.) without the recall being performed on the car. That makes me wonder when your car was manufactured. I've posted on another thread some of the documents from Chrysler to the NHTSA about the Safety Recall P06 / NHTSA 14V-103 Automatic Transaxle Gear Shift Module the target dates of manufacture are roughly between April 2013 to February 2014. What manufacture date does the plaque on the driver's door jamb say?

I do share your enthusiasm for the 500L, it is a really cool car. Unfortunately, for myself and others, there have been substantial problems with the DDCT. Such a shame that they put a Dodge Dart transmission in a wonderful piece of Italian engineering. You know that the European 500Ls don't suffer from the same problem with the transmission that the North America models do.

The C635 DDCT is not a Dodge Dart transmission. It was developed by Fiat Powertrain Technologies which partnered with Borg Warner who produces the control units and Luk GmbH for the clutch. It is the same trans used in the Alfa 4C which has been getting good reviews for its transmission and is used in the European 500L.

Inside Fiat's Dual Dry Clutch Transmission (http://www.fiat500usa.com/2010/05/inside-fiats-dual-dry-clutch.html)


http://youtu.be/Ttu-YiQy_fo

DDT
12-30-2014, 04:54 PM
[QUOTE=Fiat500USA;721666]The C635 DDCT is not a Dodge Dart transmission. It was developed by Fiat Powertrain Technologies which partnered with Borg Warner who produces the control units and Luk GmbH for the clutch. It is the same trans used in the Alfa 4C which has been getting good reviews for its transmission and is used in the European 500L.
/QUOTE]

Interesting point, but the DDCT in the US 500L is the 6-Speed C633 Euro Twin Clutch Auto. I had read somewhere that it was the same as the Dodge Dart. Notwithstanding that, the DDCT in the Dodge Dart has has its fair share of problems. Very similar to the US 500L problems.

I got this from a Dodge Dart forum.

Dual Dry Clutch Transmission Problems
I purchased my Dodge Dart Rallye with a 1.4L multiair turbo engine and the automatic dual dry clutch on April 18th of this year. It has been an amazing car to me, I traded in my Jeep Wrangler Sahara due to gas mileage issues. This car has been great on fuel and fun to drive. I use it lots and planned a trip home from New Brunswick to Ontario, however, before I left there was a recall on the Transmission Module stating that some cars were stalling so I had the recall fixed before I left to ensure no problems. I drove to Ontario with no problems, all 1800 km's and got incredible fuel mileage. But on September 5th, I was on my way to lunch, left the parking lot and stopped at a stop sign, when i went to accelerate, the car began to roll backwards as if it were in neutral. It began stalling so i rolled it to the side of the road and the "Service Transmission" light came on. I call Chrysler Roadside Assistance and they were very helpful, I was in Barrie, ON and they had a tow truck there within 20 mintues that brought me to a nearby dealer. I explained the situation and began to wait. After 5 hours they were done, they told me they were not sure what was wrong but that the codes were all messed up so they reset all of the codes, made not of it on my file and said they had tested the car and everything was good to go and I would have no problems. I left Ontario on the evening of September 7th and drove all night back to New Brunswick. Returning home, the car hit 17,500km on the odometer. I parked in the driveway and did not use the car until the next morning. I went to leave, got to the end of my street, pulled out onto a major road and the car jumped out of gear and began flashing "gear not available" I was able to pull of the road, shut off the car and restart it and get back to my driveway. I called Chrysler again and they sent another tow truck. They brought me to the dealer I had purchased the car from, I explained what had happened 4 days earlier in Barrie and they said they would call me. They ended up giving me a rental that evening and then called me on the Tuesday. They stated that besides the transmission problem, one of my hydraulic pumps had failed and my car, my brand new car was leaking oil. They said the part wouldn't arrive until Friday and it was a 6 hour job so just stay in the rental and they will call me when they are done. Flash forward to this past Tuesday, I had not heard anything from the deraler, so on my way home from work I stopped in to find out what was happening. The service manager came out and explained to me that the dealership and Chrysler had not heard of a problem like this and aren't sure what is wrong. They removed my transmission, and worked with Chrysler engineers to reset all of the components back to factory settings. They put the transmission back in Tuesday and it did not work. So now they are waiting on Chrysler to figure out a solution to the problem. Luckily my rental is a 2014 Dodge Charger... I am starting to wonder if I should have bought one of those instead. I am just wondering if anyone else has had this problem or heard of this happening with a 2013 Dodge Dart.

Thanks for listening to my lengthy story..


Its a shame your having those issues. However many people here that made the error of buying the ddct are having the same issue. Some have had the trans and components completely replaced. Some filed for lemon law. Seems to happening around the mileage your at too. I would only assume those who had everything replaced are trouble free, at least until they drive another 12-16,000 miles.
@KrazyBeautiful has been with out her car for over a month and its been in and out of the shop its entire life for this issue. Maybe she can help. Also check other threads. There are numerous ones on this very problem.

That Alfa Romeo Giulietta is one "sweet car" !

Fiat500USA
12-30-2014, 05:29 PM
I probably didn't make my point clear. I was trying to say that it is a Fiat transmission and wasn't made by Dodge. The transmission is used successfully in the Alfa Giulietta and 500L in Europe and the 4C here in the US. I wonder how much of these problems are from first year issues and/or unfamiliarity on how the transmission operates? Clearly there have been problems with parts like the shifter assembly/controller, etc. That can probably fall under new production issues. Hopefully, they have a handle on that by now. The unfamiliarity on how the trans operates is a tougher issue that all DDCT manufacturers are struggling with in this country. Seems the Europeans don't have the same issues, maybe due to the fact that more drivers there are used to operating manual transmissions.

DDT
12-30-2014, 05:44 PM
I probably didn't make my point clear. I was trying to say that it is a Fiat transmission and wasn't made by Dodge. The transmission is used successfully in the Alfa Giulietta and 500L in Europe and the 4C here in the US. I wonder how much of these problems are from first year issues and/or unfamiliarity on how the transmission operates? Clearly there have been problems with parts like the shifter assembly/controller, etc. That can probably fall under new production issues. Hopefully, they have a handle on that by now. The unfamiliarity on how the trans operates is a tougher issue that all DDCT manufacturers are struggling with in this country. Seems the Europeans don't have the same issues, maybe due to the fact that more drivers there are used to operating manual transmissions.

FIAT500USA,

I do think that there is a bit of confusion as to what is exactly used in these cars. The C633, I got from dealer websites in the US.

After reading your post, I decided to go and checkout the Alfa Romeo forum. Just to get a better understanding on what is happening with those cars.

It appears as if they have their fair share of problems. Some fairly recent excerpts:

Oooops! My GMA TCT did it again...

Today the gearbox alarm went on. TCT got stuck on N and the car slowed to an halt. I restarted the car, the alarms did not show anymore and it did some 20kms more. Gearbox changes were louder and rougher. I got to my destinations

Some hours later it gave various alarms (one of them was the gearbox alarm) and was stuck to neutral again. Restart did not fixe the problema. It was towed again to na Alfa dealer...

I think I had enough troubles with my TCT.


and another

How unlucky can you be with a TCT gearbox? My TCT on my 2011 Mito went in 2 years with 12k on the clock, some leak with the 1st and 3rd gear. the car would just power down to a halt, was D would flash. It was changed under warranty but they did have to get a special guy down from Alfa to sign off the cost to be done under warranty. It was all replaced in 5 working day from reporting the car and dropping it off to the garage. The computer had recorded the problem twice so there was no issue on what the problem was, so a new clutch gearbox was fitted.

I know have a 2014 TCT Sprortiva Nav G. The TCT gearbox have been revised on these cars so touch wood lightning doesn't strike in the she place, however in the back of my mind I still have 'my gear box failed in only two years with only 12k on the clock bugging me'!


In so far as the comment about unfamiliarity with the DDCT, sure that may be a bit of an issue with driving the car in stop-and-go traffic and the clutch overheating. I won't disagree with you there. I can accept and live with that. However, some of the other crazy stuff that these gearboxes have done is just outright unacceptable.

Fiat500USA
12-30-2014, 06:21 PM
Both Dodge and Fiat both use the 635 DDCT. Yes, definitely a disappointment that some have had actual mechanical issues. The recall of the controller was a step in the right direction, but it doesn't seem the DDCT plays well in the US at least not in a family/mainstream car. I asked someone at the company about the DDCT in the Alfa and the consensus is that the transmission is best suited for enthusiasts and performance drivers. The quick-shifting and efficiency are pluses in that setting and the practicality of driving in stop and go traffic aren't as big a consideration.

DDT
12-30-2014, 06:39 PM
Both Dodge and Fiat both use the 635 DDCT. Yes, definitely a disappointment that some have had actual mechanical issues. The recall of the controller was a step in the right direction, but it doesn't seem the DDCT plays well in the US at least not in a family/mainstream car. I asked someone at the company about the DDCT in the Alfa and the consensus is that the transmission is best suited for enthusiasts and performance drivers. The quick-shifting and efficiency are pluses in that setting and the practicality of driving in stop and go traffic aren't as big a consideration.

Agreed. Though I don't know why all the dealer websites, the I've visited show the DDCT as C636 and not C635. Whatever...

In any event I do hope that they get things sorted out. As we all have stock in this company be virtue of buying a FIAT. Some of us have more invested, I see you have three FIATs in your garage, than others. I only have the one. BTW, is that Trekking manual?

Wolfepaw
01-01-2015, 07:06 PM
Interesting point. Mine starts with the ZFB. Do you have the date of manufacture? It is on the plaque on the drivers side door jamb. I really do think that there is a difference in DDCT problems based on Manufacture date. That ZFA VIN is interesting. So does the country of origin not have Serbia? It is also on the plaque with the date of manufacture .

BTW, do you mind of I share your post on the other FIAT 500 forum? Or do you post there as well? A member in Quebec and I have been posting about the DDCT problems and how his 500L that was built in April 2013 has not problems and as I'm sure you know the weather extremes in Quebec are much more pronounced that here in North Carolina.


Sorry to take so long, busy time of the year! The plate does say it was made in Serbia.

DDT
01-01-2015, 07:12 PM
Sorry to take so long, busy time of the year! The plate does say it was made in Serbia.

WolfePaw,

Thanks for the reply. Did you get the date of manufacture?

Happy New Year

Fiat500USA
01-01-2015, 07:36 PM
Agreed. Though I don't know why all the dealer websites, the I've visited show the DDCT as C636 and not C635. Whatever...

In any event I do hope that they get things sorted out. As we all have stock in this company be virtue of buying a FIAT. Some of us have more invested, I see you have three FIATs in your garage, than others. I only have the one. BTW, is that Trekking manual?


Yes, that is a misprint on their websites. That is usually just stock copy that is passed around one website to another.

It hurts to read someone is unhappy with their car. There are generally continuous improvements and refinements as production goes on, so I have confidence that they'll get a handle on things if it isn't done already.

I just have one Fiat right now (besides an older X1/9 and an Alfa GTV6). In my Garage folder is my old Prima that I traded, and the 500L is a stock image I have in an Album. I was given a 500L to drive last year and purposely picked a DDCT to sample. I enjoyed it and had no issue with the trans, but would have preferred it to shift a little quicker in manual mode. I used auto mode in Baltimore traffic and thought it behaved fine. I was with another person who also thought it worked well so am kind of surprised folks have issues, but people need to be satisfied and if they aren't Fiat needs to address it. I think the wind down on the DDCT and the arrival of the conventional AT are steps in the right direction.

DDT
01-01-2015, 07:57 PM
Yes, that is a misprint on their websites. That is usually just stock copy that is passed around one website to another.

It hurts to read someone is unhappy with their car. There are generally continuous improvements and refinements as production goes on, so I have confidence that they'll get a handle on things if it isn't done already.

I just have one Fiat right now (besides an older X1/9 and an Alfa GTV6). In my Garage folder is my old Prima that I traded, and the 500L is a stock image I have in an Album. I was given a 500L to drive last year and purposely picked a DDCT to sample. I enjoyed it and had no issue with the trans, but would have preferred it to shift a little quicker in manual mode. I used auto mode in Baltimore traffic and thought it behaved fine. I was with another person who also thought it worked well so am kind of surprised folks have issues, but people need to be satisfied and if they aren't Fiat needs to address it. I think the wind down on the DDCT and the arrival of the conventional AT are steps in the right direction.

I had a typo in my initial post. They have the DDCT as C633, not C636, and the manual as C635. But, in any event, they do need to fix their misprint.

I was generally happy with my 500L until the gearbox failure. That prompted me to look on Google for 500L transmission problems and how I subsequently ended up on these forums. As you might imagine, I was shocked at what I read and continue to read. The DDCT does behave OK, I agree, as long as it doesn't lose its mind. I don't trust it. My car had the P06 recall for the GSM and firmware updates in April, then still failed in November. It was out of service for a month awaiting a new TCM which was the alleged cause of the failure. So... what else is wrong with this product? I don't want to find out.

I've been told by FIAT Resolutions to go and find a manual 500L for some kind of "trade assist". They've been a bit nebulous in what kind of assistance that means. As I've told the representative I shouldn't have to pay one red cent more to get a reliable car. I will play ball now and see where it goes. Hopefully it will work out. Otherwise, I will have an attorney in Raleigh take up the LEMON Law case. Seems that FIAT would try to avoid that, as the cost to them would be much higher. Not a time to be "penny wise and pound foolish"