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RoadRace
09-24-2014, 01:19 PM
Racing is not a gimmick. It takes a lot of money and time to do a real hour long event. The Miller Motorsports event was actually round 5 and 6 of the USTCC Season. That means a lot of wear and tear on the car. The 1st course was 2.5 miles and the 2nd race was on a course that was 4.5 miles long. That means it thru a variety of track characteristics at us. We saw corner with long, long turns, we saw straightaways that were 1/2 mile long. We had corners that were very keen on maintaining momentum and hard braking zones. All of this meant that all of our preparation, and the components we used on the car were tested to the extreme. All of the part that make up the Tallini Competizione M1R race car are parts we sell on the Road Race website. This is something that is very important to us. We want to test our parts and test them like no other company can or is testing. Lessons learned were that all of our parts held up like a champ. No mistake, we had problems, but the problems we encountered, were related to the FIAT itself and not the products.

For example. Hitting the rev limiter too many times in one key cycle means that the stock ECU will turn power down. IT does this whether you have mods or if it was completely stock. THis happened to us in the races and we did not quite know what it was until after we looked at the logs. Yes we data logged the car in virtually every session and we got a lot of data from the race. That told us a lot. We used DASHDYNO and other devices including the series required logger TRAQMATE. From that we determined a lot of things or events like I describe above but we also recorded power from these devices. TRAQMATE is installed on the car to make sure the cars are fair so this is the tool used to determine REAL POWER made by the car. The data there correlated with our devices too. NOW FOR POWER, with the basic list of mods we have on street cars all over the continent, they recorded 239 h.p. and 237 ft lbs of torque. This is achieved on the stock turbo etc.... We are happy with that and know that he Ultimate with our rock solid intake and other supporting mods proved to be a winning combo. Furthermore our water temps never went over 180 degrees. This is important, very important. We still use the side mounts although we remade one pipe in the system. We will start selling those this coming week. This is really all it needs is this one pipe. Keep it cool and then you have a proper setup fir side mounts. WEare happy with this first outing and know what we need to do to make the car faster. Some of the things we knew before the race but ran out of time, others were a revelation to us. I will add to this thread with more info including the "THINGS TO DO LIST" for the next race. The community will benefit from this rigorous testing (racing) we are doing.

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3874/15280621932_a59b62c331_o.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/photos/roadrace/15280621932/)
MMPrace (https://www.flickr.com/photos/roadrace/15280621932/) by ROCKHARD37 (https://www.flickr.com/people/roadrace/), on Flickr

Cargo
09-24-2014, 01:32 PM
Very well put. Keep up the good work, looking forward to things to come.

BigDaddySRT
09-24-2014, 01:33 PM
Oh Geez... more claims to Power Outputs getting thrown around.

Sales@roadrace
09-24-2014, 01:40 PM
Oh Geez... more claims to Power Outputs getting thrown around.

The numbers we recorded during the race fall right in line with the numbers our cars always make. I hope you get more from this thread as it progresses, it's a chance for all of us to learn about our cars as we push ours to it's limits and beat up on it. We want our track experience to help the community as a whole.

gundam2000
09-25-2014, 11:25 AM
I'm interested in wear items like suspension bushings etc. failing down the course of the race season.

RoadRace
09-25-2014, 12:57 PM
The power claims are in line with Dyno Jet numbers, Dash Command numbers, and these were done with Dash Dyno and NASA's official Traqmate . Dash Dyno is what seemed to be accepted by everyone as used by UNICHIP guys. This thread will not become a contest about power. It is verified more than one way including USTCC's official Logger used to maintain parity in the class. THIS IS WHAT NASA USTCC USES FOR OFFICIAL PURPOSES. This is Gospel now. Please get past this. 240+ h.p. is done all the time. This is the 4th different tool or device that proves what we have been saying ALL ALONG. A RRM Ultimate based engine with the rest of our complimenting mods makes around 240 h.p. Like it or not, this is it. Now lets get past it.

LET COVER BRAKES AS OUR FIRST LESSON.
• WE found that stock calipers along with these new project Mu pads and RRM's best slotted rotors proved to be very, very effective even though the tracks offered a variety of braking simulations. That said cooling ducts were critical to keeping the brake in proper operating range. I do feel the need to increase size of ducts a little though simply because a 20 minute track day session is fine. All works well but at 50 minutes, things could ramp up and then hard to get under control. So more ducts are needed to ensure that the proper heat range is maintained on all tracks. Running 2 different races in one weekend gave us a ton of data but even this small adjustment is the difference between winning and losing.

ROAD/RACE

shadowshaggy
09-25-2014, 01:04 PM
So I have to ask a few questions, and on my end will keep things quiet and professional - I just would like to have a civil conversation about this (everyone btw)

How was the heat handled by the SMIC's?

I know from my own racing this season, I suffered as a result of them. Mind you my racing is SCCA SOLO AutoX, so we have 50-70 second runs depending on track size/configuration and after 2-3 runs I get to where I'm having a bad issue with spool up down low in the RPM range. I also know that these cars don't make much power down low without the aid of a tuner/piggyback, but fact remains that I can feel it after a couple of runs badly.

2. What's the word with the murdering the rev limiter?

S2500T
09-25-2014, 02:20 PM
How was the heat handled by the SMIC's?

I know from my own racing this season, I suffered as a result of them. Mind you my racing is SCCA SOLO AutoX, so we have 50-70 second runs depending on track size/configuration and after 2-3 runs I get to where I'm having a bad issue with spool up down low in the RPM range. I also know that these cars don't make much power down low without the aid of a tuner/piggyback, but fact remains that I can feel it after a couple of runs badly.


I wonder if any other AutoX guys are having the same issue. I road race my 500T, and do not suffer from any bog, spool up issues, etc. as long as clean air is hitting the front bumper. I'm talking (4-5) 20 minute session of about 10-15 laps in 100+ degree heat.

shadowshaggy
09-25-2014, 02:22 PM
Our races tend to be about 1 mile long give or take a little and then get to sit in the paddock for 15 minutes or so between laps.

If we were road racing, I doubt we would have that issue; but as I haven't made it into the NASA events this year (hopefully next season I will be able) I don't get a chance to run road coarse tracks like that.

S2500T
09-25-2014, 02:37 PM
I tend to run with 4-5 Abarth/500T buddies when we go to the track. We all (for the most part) have different engine mods, but we all run SMIC. None of us really have the issue, or could directly point to the SMICs as the culprits. The only time I've ever run into something similar was when I was stuck in traffic behind a big group. The car seemed a bit starved, but immediately recovered once I got around the cars.

shadowshaggy
09-25-2014, 03:10 PM
I tend to run with 4-5 Abarth/500T buddies when we go to the track. We all (for the most part) have different engine mods, but we all run SMIC. None of us really have the issue, or could directly point to the SMICs as the culprits. The only time I've ever run into something similar was when I was stuck in traffic behind a big group. The car seemed a bit starved, but immediately recovered once I got around the cars.

I concur, but doing a run and then sitting on pavement for 10-15 minutes gets the whole car good and hot. Our July events (one day 102 the other 107) ambient air temps were quite high, then throw sitting on pavement at 140F plus; then the SMIC's get some really bad heat soak. They don't have fans, the only air they get is from driving.

Seriously though, not trying to start anything - just wondering what RRM's experience was since they don't want to use a FMIC. I will be installing my FMIC soon, just waiting on it to get here.

doverosx
09-25-2014, 03:18 PM
I concur, but doing a run and then sitting on pavement for 10-15 minutes gets the whole car good and hot. Our July events (one day 102 the other 107) ambient air temps were quite high, then throw sitting on pavement at 140F plus; then the SMIC's get some really bad heat soak. They don't have fans, the only air they get is from driving.

Seriously though, not trying to start anything - just wondering what RRM's experience was since they don't want to use a FMIC. I will be installing my FMIC soon, just waiting on it to get here.

I have always given my cars the full DEI treatment whether they are NA/Turbo/SC. I plan to do the same for my Abarth once I get it. TBH, even an FMIC won't help you because if you're idling+not moving you don't have air flow.

I would try to fill up a water bottle and mist water into the SMIC grilles on the bumper. Bring a cooler and ice too, then throw the ice into the spray bottle when you're spraying.

S2500T
09-25-2014, 03:24 PM
I have always given my cars the full DEI treatment whether they are NA/Turbo/SC. I plan to do the same for my Abarth once I get it. TBH, even an FMIC won't help you because if you're idling+not moving you don't have air flow.

I would try to fill up a water bottle and mist water into the SMIC grilles on the bumper. Bring a cooler and ice too, then throw the ice into the spray bottle when you're spraying.

Aside from the turbo blanket and jacket, I plan doing the same (DEI treatment) where applicable. Until I can definitively say that a certain part is doing something, or keeping me from reaching a goal, I won't throw money at it.

BigDaddySRT
09-25-2014, 03:25 PM
I concur, but doing a run and then sitting on pavement for 10-15 minutes gets the whole car good and hot. Our July events (one day 102 the other 107) ambient air temps were quite high, then throw sitting on pavement at 140F plus; then the SMIC's get some really bad heat soak. They don't have fans, the only air they get is from driving.

Seriously though, not trying to start anything - just wondering what RRM's experience was since they don't want to use a FMIC. I will be installing my FMIC soon, just waiting on it to get here.

Rules probably require them to run the Factory Location Heat Extractors.

When you come in from a run back into the paddock: Allow the engine to run an extra minute or two to circulate Oil/ Water through the Turbo.
As soon as you shut the car off get out and spray the Heat Extractors and Radiator with Ice Water.

S2500T
09-25-2014, 03:26 PM
Seriously though, not trying to start anything - just wondering what RRM's experience was since they don't want to use a FMIC. I will be installing my FMIC soon, just waiting on it to get here.
No harm taken man. Just giving you my experience, maybe even save you some money. doverosx made a good suggestion though. Maybe try misting the coolers in between sessions. At least try the cheaper option first.

shadowshaggy
09-25-2014, 03:59 PM
I leave it at idle so at least the radiator fan keeps some air moving, working on a plan for the hood to remove some of that hot air as well. I WA interested in the pipe upgrade prior to the FMIC so I could quantify the difference; but ATM has enough info on their FMIC (them as an example so don't get worked up anyone) that I am not sure that worth the effort.

S2500T
09-25-2014, 04:06 PM
I leave it at idle so at least the radiator fan keeps some air moving, working on a plan for the hood to remove some of that hot air as well. I WA interested in the pipe upgrade prior to the FMIC so I could quantify the difference; but ATM has enough info on their FMIC (them as an example so don't get worked up anyone) that I am not sure that worth the effort.
If I ever do get a FMIC it will definitely be an ATM (unless I can build one myself). It's a very nice unit. Check one out in person if you ever get the opportunity.

shadowshaggy
09-25-2014, 04:09 PM
I have :)

I do indeed like them, but I have a game plan ;)

Abnormalradio13
09-26-2014, 11:52 AM
I can say that from doing both autocross events and OTDs/time trials, that this car is loads of fun. From autocross runs, i've never had a problem with heat soak but on open track days and time trials when it's 85+ outside, i did suffer from heat soak towards the end of my session but it was only on my last two laps i felt it. Brakes I really don't have any trouyble since I have RRM High performance pads all around and slotted rotors in the front. I did also run it at mid ohio back in april with nasa and noticed a slight bit of brake fade on my last session(car stock at the time) but it still held up. I'm heading to waterford for the last time trial of the season and I'll see what happens differently from previous experiences.

Sales@roadrace
10-02-2014, 02:52 PM
Be sure to take a look at your IC tubing. It comes very close to the down pipe, and wrapping it can help with intake temps as well.

RoadRace
10-03-2014, 01:54 PM
If people go back to our flickr.com/roadrace account, you will see pictures with the bumper off.
• We have a radiator fan added to the front of the radiator/AC core.
• We park and leave engine on for about 5 minutes with the hood up.
• If it is a hot, hot day, we have generator running and we run outside fan that is placed in front as soon as the car stops.
• There are a lot of thing you do when racing many disciplines. I apply everything I learned in 30 years.
• All measurements are done before the car ever sits. One's cool down lap is even an art form. You want to go pretty fast but not use the brakes. So you use them as little as you can but still keep heat in tires etc....
• One of the main things learned is the difference between the heat spread across the rear tires. 16 inch tires spread heat better in the rear of the car than 17s do. This is why we suggest 16s all day long. of course it can be corrected for 17s and we will do that because rules require us to run 17s.

RRM

RoadRace
10-03-2014, 02:21 PM
I forgot we have a IC fix that is really a must too. There is one pipe that is vulnerable to leaking and it is a choke point for the system. This is really the only pipe that needs replacing. That does not mean others cannot be replaced but this is the one that has the best bang for the buck. We will do a video or something about it and showcase this. We feel strongly enough about this that we will make these for sale and keep true to the fact that our race car is composed of everything we sell with no notable exception.

Road Race Motorsports

Abnormalradio13
10-04-2014, 12:55 AM
Awesome. I planned on grabbing some 16s with 225s for my autocross events and 17s for my races since the 5 hundred corsa cup requires we run 17x7. One thing that I noticed in my last event was that the boost stayed at 18-20lbs (considering that the factory gauge fluctuates all over the place) vs last time where it jumped all over the place half way through the session (high 80s that day). Also that the brakes held up through the entire day (high of 77 degrees). Now next thing to do is heat management and fully adjustable suspension so I can dial in for each track I go to. Only problem was I didn't have my tire pressure high enough in the front so I had a bit of understeer but nothing dangerous.

RoadRace
10-06-2014, 02:42 PM
We will have camber plates to add more NEGATIVE CAMBER in the e REAR of the car. Yes REAR needs some so we are going to make custom plate. We will make a small batch of these for Hardcore guys that are racing or AUTOCROSSiING. This is another lesson we learned. This will take the car from .9 degree negative camber to 2.5 degrees negative camber. We will let you know when we have them for sale. RRM.