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Timetrapper
09-14-2014, 11:43 PM
Hi all,

I just got a 2013 Fiat Sport, automatic with 101 HP. I got it thinking I could turbo or supercharge it for $1500-3000. I got a great deal used and there were no turbos in my area AND I wanted an automatic. (so hopefully that will explain why I didn't get the stock turbo.) The abarth is out of my price range also.

I've been reading everywhere now, that the Sport can't be turbo or supercharged and no one does it. I read on here that some people did cold air intake, new muffler etc and got like 10hp out of it BUT I didn't want to use my 1500-3000 dollar budget for any mods if it didn't include a turbo/supercharge.

1. Can I turbo or supercharge a Fiat Sport? If so can you elaborate so I can give this specific info to a shop around here in Oklahoma or would it break the bank past $3000 parts plus labor?

2. What is the largest HP increase (hopefully over 20HPbiggrin) anyone remembers seeing from mods to the Sport? (please let me know where you saw it and I can contact that member and get the info to a professional around where I live to get it started)

3. IF its currently impossible:spaz: to get any performance increase of over 20HP out of the 2013 Sport, would it be that way forever? (as in, never will I be able to turbo/supercharge the 2013 Sport....)

4. Alternate Scenario: If no major mod can be done to get a Sport from 101HP to 120ish HP (or higher!), I was planning to drive this car until the engine gives out (5-10 years). At that point, could I replace the engine with a brand new one that could be turbo or supercharged?

:chuncky:Thanks for any info you guys can provide :chuncky:

Timetrapper


Final Note: If you know any members who have turbo/super charged their Fiat Sport, please PM me. I'd like to replicate what they've done!

rustbucket
09-15-2014, 12:06 AM
Don't forget the transmission could well be a weak spot- the automatics in the 2015 Turbo and Abarth are beefed up from what you have to handle the extra hp/torque.

JimmyTestarossa
09-15-2014, 09:53 AM
I would assume the ideal set-up would be to drop in a Turbo or Abarth engine from a wrecked car. I can't imagine demand for these engines would be high since these cars are all new-ish.

I don't know enough about the transaxles to say they can or can't handle a bit of extra power.

lammie200
09-15-2014, 11:30 AM
Engine/tranny/computers/instrumentation/wiring for a turbo swap would be impossible IMHO. The most that I have seen documented by someone else for boosting a NA engine is a 16HP gain. He was actually going for more with a custom header, but I am not sure that that mod did him much. I have never tested mine, but I think that it is probably in the same range. If I were you I would think about the electronic upgrades that you can do to your Sport to get the most out of it. I would start with the TMC Autoflash, RRM timing controller, and a Go-pedal. Those things alone will make it a completely different vehicle. There may eventually be a tune to throw into the OBDII port. I would imagine that that would squeeze another 10HP increase or so.

Robert Nixon
09-15-2014, 01:26 PM
Sorry I can't help answer your question other than to point out that FIAT said they had to stretch the engine bay to put the turbo motors into the FIAT body, so that might be one reason it's not common to find anyone putting a turbo in there.

Welcome to the forum too!

Timetrapper
09-15-2014, 08:36 PM
Engine/tranny/computers/instrumentation/wiring for a turbo swap would be impossible IMHO. The most that I have seen documented by someone else for boosting a NA engine is a 16HP gain. He was actually going for more with a custom header, but I am not sure that that mod did him much. I have never tested mine, but I think that it is probably in the same range. If I were you I would think about the electronic upgrades that you can do to your Sport to get the most out of it. I would start with the TMC Autoflash, RRM timing controller, and a Go-pedal. Those things alone will make it a completely different vehicle. There may eventually be a tune to throw into the OBDII port. I would imagine that that would squeeze another 10HP increase or so.

"I would start with the TMC Autoflash, RRM timing controller, and a Go-pedal." How much would these things run me including labor? (feel free to guestimate and ballpark), I'm not going to be upset.

lammie200
09-15-2014, 08:48 PM
"I would start with the TMC Autoflash, RRM timing controller, and a Go-pedal." How much would these things run me including labor? (feel free to guestimate and ballpark), I'm not going to be upset.

Parts would be about $1000-$1200. You might find a used timing controller and Go-pedal on one of these boards. The TMC unit is fairly new to market and I am not sure that anyone else on this side of the pond has one except for me. There is no labor so to speak. They are all plug and play with easy to follow instructions. The Go-pedal is probably the most difficult of the three. It is just painful to lay on the floor to install it above the gas pedal. Another thing that you might want to consider is a lightened crank pulley kit. If you can't install it, it should take a mechanic less than an hour. Realistically it only takes about 15 minutes.

Timetrapper
09-15-2014, 08:58 PM
well, based on these links, it looks like someone supercharged the Fiat 500 Sport from 101 to 150 HP. Bad news is, their kit costs 5,000 dollars haha. So I guess unless they are lying, it can be done. I wonder why its so stinking expensive?

http://www.topspeed.com/cars/car-news/fiat-14-16v-supercharger-conversion-kit-ar62937.html
http://www.jcrracing.co.uk/

aelfwyne
09-15-2014, 09:38 PM
$5000 because there's a lot of custom parts it would require, and a very small market. Since so few people are buying it, there's nothing to bring the cost down.

Most who want more power in a Fiat 500 simply buy the Abarth or Turbo instead. Turbo can be easily upgraded into Abarth territory. The NA multiair cannot be easily upgraded. As others have said, even if you do push more power, the trans, clutch, etc aren't made for that output.

Also, that article is from 2008. The current website says 150hp, but also says "Coming Soon".. was it coming soon since 2008?
Was the Abarth even out then? And, for all of that scratch, you only get 138hp. Abarth gets you 160hp out of the box.



You'd have to spend more than it would have cost to buy the Abarth or Turbo. And that's why nobody is really spending the money to upgrade the base engine. You just buy the one you want up front. Or, you trade in your Sport for an Abarth.

I hope you didn't buy your Sport expecting to be able to do these upgrades. Because it's just not practical even at $5000.

Purgatory
09-15-2014, 09:46 PM
You would be better off, to save this money, and when and if you can, trade up to an used Abarth, and save yourself a lot of money and trouble in the long run. Even if you could boost the power on the Sport (a lot of money actually for a small increase), then you would want to upgrade the suspension too, to handle the extra power safely, and perhaps even boost up the brakes, so one things leads to another, and by the time you did all of the above, you would be in the range of a 500 Turbo, or a real Abarth.

I had a brand new 2013 Sport, and traded it less than 3 months later when I factory ordered my 2014 Abarth. The way my deal worked, I never lost any real money to speak of, and was most happy to end up with what I wanted in the first place, which was the Abarth. Been in love with it ever since I first picked it up at my Studio, zero regrets. And since, I have been busy building up the HP and suspension on the Abarth. It gets very addicting. A stock Abarth is awesome on its own, but once you drive a mod Abarth, you can never turn back.

Good luck with your project and thoughts on your Sport.

David

Timetrapper
09-15-2014, 10:22 PM
yeah I just bought this thing Saturday, cuz I didn't even have a car. and I figured if I didn't like it I could give it to my mother in like 3-5 years. But I do like it, but now I want more power. Well I saw some used Abarths going for 17kish PLUS but, once you get into that range, you get into big boy HP cars. there are challenger RTs in OK/TX that are 19-21K! Like for example I saw some Suzuki SX3's with 150 HP 2012-2013 for 8-9K (they had 40-50K mileage, while my 2013 had 24K)!!! that's more HP than a turbo which doesn't have an automatic, and its half the price of the used abarths going around now.

the reason I went with the sport was, it was priced like 10-11kish where I live for 2012-2013. they had a handful like that and no used abarths less than $18K at the time. AND I had no car at the time so I needed something.

Now I guess im worried about trading this thing in, losing thousands on it for the abarth which will probably be 5K more than the sport I paid for. then factor in the loss from the trade in, who knows how much i'll lose. by that time, I would already have spent 17k ish. well hell I could get a used challenger RT for 19-21K. so I wanted to stay way south of 15K, because at that point, its only 5K more to a challenger RT. so that's where I was coming from with getting the sport I got now.

EDIT: nevermind its not the end of the world. in 2015 I think they are coming out with Turbo Automatics. So by that time there might be some out there in a year or two. those aren't too insanely price. by that time there will be more abarths out there on the market too. Oh well, I guess I can kill my Sport Remorse. I needed a car, I got one, I like it, now I can just hold it for a year, take the hit on the trade in and get a turbo or abarth automatic.

doverosx
09-16-2014, 10:10 AM
yeah I just bought this thing Saturday, cuz I didn't even have a car. and I figured if I didn't like it I could give it to my mother in like 3-5 years. But I do like it, but now I want more power. Well I saw some used Abarths going for 17kish PLUS but, once you get into that range, you get into big boy HP cars. there are challenger RTs in OK/TX that are 19-21K! Like for example I saw some Suzuki SX3's with 150 HP 2012-2013 for 8-9K (they had 40-50K mileage, while my 2013 had 24K)!!! that's more HP than a turbo which doesn't have an automatic, and its half the price of the used abarths going around now.

the reason I went with the sport was, it was priced like 10-11kish where I live for 2012-2013. they had a handful like that and no used abarths less than $18K at the time. AND I had no car at the time so I needed something.

Now I guess im worried about trading this thing in, losing thousands on it for the abarth which will probably be 5K more than the sport I paid for. then factor in the loss from the trade in, who knows how much i'll lose. by that time, I would already have spent 17k ish. well hell I could get a used challenger RT for 19-21K. so I wanted to stay way south of 15K, because at that point, its only 5K more to a challenger RT. so that's where I was coming from with getting the sport I got now.

EDIT: nevermind its not the end of the world. in 2015 I think they are coming out with Turbo Automatics. So by that time there might be some out there in a year or two. those aren't too insanely price. by that time there will be more abarths out there on the market too. Oh well, I guess I can kill my Sport Remorse. I needed a car, I got one, I like it, now I can just hold it for a year, take the hit on the trade in and get a turbo or abarth automatic.

Why don't you try learning a manual? I know that it means you won't be able to effectively text and drive but then you get to drive and drive; call me crazy.

Timetrapper
09-16-2014, 01:30 PM
Well, I wanted to be able to pass my car onto my mother in a few years. She's too old to drive a manual anymore and she doesn't have a car. I'd feel better doing this than getting killed on a trade-in at a dealership for an upgrade. I'd rather take the loss and at least give my mother a decent reliable car in the future.

Also, I think, as I've read/seen on the internet, manuals might not be as efficient as the automatics. For example on the Dodge Challenger Hellcat, the automatic they have shifts a few milliseconds faster than any human could on a manual. I think eventually (who knows how soon) automatic technology will make it more efficient than manual anyways.

So those are the two reasons why I don't want a manual.

Also, i read online, that Abarth and Turbo's in 2015 will have automatics. But I thought there were already some Automatic Abarths out there currently from 2013/2014?

aelfwyne
09-16-2014, 06:50 PM
Also, I think, as I've read/seen on the internet, manuals might not be as efficient as the automatics. For example on the Dodge Challenger Hellcat, the automatic they have shifts a few milliseconds faster than any human could on a manual. I think eventually (who knows how soon) automatic technology will make it more efficient than manual anyways.


This completely depends on the particular manual/automatic in question. Typically on Fiats, the manual gets better mileage. Not sure on the Abarth Automatic, but you would want to check the gas milage on a specific vehicle before making that decision.

lammie200
09-16-2014, 06:58 PM
...Also, i read online, that Abarth and Turbo's in 2015 will have automatics. But I thought there were already some Automatic Abarths out there currently from 2013/2014?

It has only been a new option on 2015 Abarths and Turbos for the North American market.


This completely depends on the particular manual/automatic in question. Typically on Fiats, the manual gets better mileage. Not sure on the Abarth Automatic, but you would want to check the gas milage on a specific vehicle before making that decision.

This is true but AT's with 6, 7, and 8 gears are trending to further improve gas mileage. That coupled with faster shifts as mentioned previously are making for some AT's that can do some pretty amazing things.

Timetrapper
09-18-2014, 01:21 AM
It has only been a new option on 2015 Abarths and Turbos for the North American market.



This is true but AT's with 6, 7, and 8 gears are trending to further improve gas mileage. That coupled with faster shifts as mentioned previously are making for some AT's that can do some pretty amazing things.

Well my automatic Sport has a small section at the bottom that the dealer said is for manual if I wanted to. so below D it has a manual section. wouldn't this be the same thing as manual shifting if I wanted to or no, its inferior to a full blown manual?

B3NN3TT
09-18-2014, 09:26 AM
Well my automatic Sport has a small section at the bottom that the dealer said is for manual if I wanted to. so below D it has a manual section. wouldn't this be the same thing as manual shifting if I wanted to or no, its inferior to a full blown manual?

The problem there is that no matter what you do, it's still a torque-converter automatic, which robs power and responds slowly to shift inputs. So there's really no point there; you may as well let the computer handle it. You bought the ticket, now ride the ride. :)

sscups
09-18-2014, 10:32 AM
The "manual shift" mode for the automatic is quite fun and works well. I'm older and a little lazy, so when I want, I have some control and also it does down shifts for you when you slow down or come to a stop.

The manual is better for performance and mpg, but the auto has benefits also...can be lazy when you want to :)

The sport mode does affect the shift points in the auto and is a nice option also.

I went with the auto due to spouse mostly.

lammie200
09-18-2014, 11:45 AM
The problem there is that no matter what you do, it's still a torque-converter automatic, which robs power and responds slowly to shift inputs. So there's really no point there; you may as well let the computer handle it. You bought the ticket, now ride the ride. :)

Not totally true. You can tune the ECU and TCU for hydraulic pressures to compress shift times, redistribute torque, etc. All of that will make for more efficient transfer and less power robbing feel from having to deal with a torque converter. FIAT engineering just doesn't push the envelope very far on this though.

snakebite4767
09-18-2014, 12:00 PM
Sounds like you are really sacrificing for your mother. That's nice. It also sounds like you really would prefer to have a different car. The Fiat is a car that fills a "Nitch". It's true that there are various levels of performance available, and they are all fun to drive... especially on small, curvy mountain roads, or something like a Autocross course.. but none of them are what I would consider a "Hot Rod". If you want a Hot Rod... then buy a Hot Rod. You can find many cars for the same amount of money that you paid for your Fiat that are a lot quicker than the Fiat. I don't know of any that will get this kind of gas mileage or will be as fun to drive on a curvy road... but getting one that will eat up ANY Fiat on the strip will not be too difficult. Driving a Fiat is just different... that's what I like about it.

Snakebite

Timetrapper
09-21-2014, 08:17 PM
Sounds like you are really sacrificing for your mother. That's nice. It also sounds like you really would prefer to have a different car. The Fiat is a car that fills a "Nitch". It's true that there are various levels of performance available, and they are all fun to drive... especially on small, curvy mountain roads, or something like a Autocross course.. but none of them are what I would consider a "Hot Rod". If you want a Hot Rod... then buy a Hot Rod. You can find many cars for the same amount of money that you paid for your Fiat that are a lot quicker than the Fiat. I don't know of any that will get this kind of gas mileage or will be as fun to drive on a curvy road... but getting one that will eat up ANY Fiat on the strip will not be too difficult. Driving a Fiat is just different... that's what I like about it.

Snakebite

well, I see used abarths and fiat turbos going for 15-16K, and they are 2012 and 2013 AND their mileage is under 50 thousand miles. So I have yet to find a car that fits is under 50K mileage, around $15K, and is 2012 or newer AND can smoke an Abarth or Fiat Turbo (besides the Juke). The only thing I've found that comes close is the Chevy Sonic (which is not faster than the abarth), and the Nissan Juke (which is wicked ugly). Anybody know of any others? I think in terms of newness, low mileage, and 15K price, the abarth and turbo are the fastest out there.

(mind you I've seen tons of mustangs, challengers, etc with 100K mileage on them or were 7 years old at the 15-16k price range)

I dunno how its happening but Fiats seem to be priced like $1-3K less than their competitors in the used market. (always less than sonics, fiestas, fits, versa, rio, list goes on and on). Good for us!

snakebite4767
09-22-2014, 05:45 PM
I think that, given the requirements you mention, that you might well be correct. Indeed, I was referring to the Mustangs etc... they are certainly faster, but getting one with the low miles and only two years old would be a bit more costly. Yes... the Fiats do seem to be one of the bargain cars out there at this point in time. When I bought my 2013 POP, it had 8 K mi on it, with upgraded wheels, and it was just $12 K... considerably less that a comparable Mini.. and in my minds eye it is a better looking car. Good luck.. getting something that you can pass on to your Mom when you move on to the next level is a good plan.

Snakebite

pip
10-15-2014, 10:57 AM
I like that you are doing this with your mom in mind. That being the case, just enjoy it and enjoy the great MPG you will be getting. Its not really worth doing much to the non turbo ones short of weight loss and basic intake

or

NOS!!!!!