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Rivmage
07-31-2014, 10:38 AM
Sad to see this....hopefully Fiat goes back to the drawing board and comes up with a fix soon.



http://www.autoevolution.com/news/2014-fiat-500l-fails-iihs-crash-test-video-84577.html#

Scott

Mario500L
07-31-2014, 10:55 AM
Sad to see this....hopefully Fiat goes back to the drawing board and comes up with a fix soon.



http://www.autoevolution.com/news/2014-fiat-500l-fails-iihs-crash-test-video-84577.html#

Scott

I guess that answers pretty much "Would you recommend the Fiat 500L?", "What vehicle did you own previous?" and "No Fiat for me...at least not yet....."

And by the way, don't buy an Audi A4 2014 also, http://www.iihs.org/iihs/ratings/vehicle/v/audi/a4

Andree
07-31-2014, 12:00 PM
Sad to see this....hopefully Fiat goes back to the drawing board and comes up with a fix soon.



http://www.autoevolution.com/news/2014-fiat-500l-fails-iihs-crash-test-video-84577.html#

Scott

I posted the info in the Issues and Concerns section here: http://www.fiat500usaforum.com/showthread.php?17093-Room-for-improvement&p=697311#post697311

The "Poor" grade is for the Small Overlap Test by itself. Not for the car as a whole. There are also several other models to compare in my thread's link.

It's funny how we both found stories on the same topic and have completely different posts and links. In the article I linked to, they break down the good, the bad, and the ugly.

And checking out those bits of info shows that the car itself crunches, but the occupant/dummy doesn't do so bad.

Also, here's a quick link to the Fiat 500L at the IIHS site. http://www.iihs.org/iihs/ratings/vehicle/v/fiat/500l/2014

You'll probably have questions about that. I may be able to answer them.

Rivmage
07-31-2014, 01:32 PM
I posted the info in the Issues and Concerns section here: http://www.fiat500usaforum.com/showthread.php?17093-Room-for-improvement&p=697311#post697311

The "Poor" grade is for the Small Overlap Test by itself. Not for the car as a whole. There are also several other models to compare in my thread's link.

It's funny how we both found stories on the same topic and have completely different posts and links. In the article I linked to, they break down the good, the bad, and the ugly.

And checking out those bits of info shows that the car itself crunches, but the occupant/dummy doesn't do so bad.

Also, here's a quick link to the Fiat 500L at the IIHS site. http://www.iihs.org/iihs/ratings/vehicle/v/fiat/500l/2014

You'll probably have questions about that. I may be able to answer them.

The problem for me at least is the wife will not allow me to own a car that does poorly in the small overlap test as her great uncle last year was killed in that type of crash.

He was on vacation, driving back to the hotel after an evening out, not sure what caused him to lost control of the Ford Escape, hit a tree or a light pole, killed him and his passenger on impact.

Plus, it is a shared platform with the Jeep Renegade and 500X,

Scott

Andree
07-31-2014, 02:30 PM
The problem for me at least is the wife will not allow me to own a car that does poorly in the small overlap test as her great uncle last year was killed in that type of crash.

He was on vacation, driving back to the hotel after an evening out, not sure what caused him to lost control of the Ford Escape, hit a tree or a light pole, killed him and his passenger on impact.

Plus, it is a shared platform with the Jeep Renegade and 500X,

Scott

Always check the details! Click on "Small Overlap Front" at each of these links:

500L: http://www.iihs.org/iihs/ratings/vehicle/v/fiat/500l/2014
Escape: http://www.iihs.org/iihs/ratings/vehicle/v/ford/escape



500L:
Restraints and dummy kinematics

The dummy’s head contacted the frontal airbag but slid off the left side as the steering column moved 13 cm to the right, contributing to the head hitting the A-pillar. The side curtain airbag deployed and had sufficient forward coverage to protect the head from contact with side structure and outside objects. The side torso airbag also deployed.

Escape:
Restraints and dummy kinematics

The dummy’s head barely contacted the frontal airbag before sliding off the left side as the steering column moved to the right, leaving the head vulnerable to contact with forward side structure. Additionally, the seat belt allowed excessive forward excursion of the dummy’s head and torso. The side curtain airbag deployed but does not have sufficient forward coverage to protect the head from contact with forward side structure and outside objects.

I really don't want to hit my head at all, but if I had to choose between the two, I'd go for the better side coverage air bags.

If you notice in the multiple cars report, several of the vehicles have specific production dates:
http://www.iihs.org/iihs/news/desktopnews/range-of-ratings-small-car-ratings-run-the-gamut-in-challenging-small-overlap-front-test

"built after December 2013" and "built after February 2014".

I'm guessing there were differences prior to those dates that would mean the vehicles could not be considered the same, and therefore, the small overlap test results could not be extended to those models.

Currently, there is no info on the Fiat site for the 2015 Fiat 500L. I'm just guessing, but I think Fiat is probably working on improving those small overlap test results.

The small overlap test is NEW, it hasn't always been in place. It came out last year. And the test for the 500L was just done.

There's only one thing I'm worried about in a crash, frankly, and that's me. I don't really care what happens to the car. It can fold into an origami crane for all I care, as long as I can get out alive. I drive alone, so I don't have passengers, and this test is about running into stationary objects.

Looking at the pictures, it would seem a small air bag popping out of the A-pillar would prevent the head from hitting it. And I don't know anything about the underlying structure, but perhaps a "wedge" shape right there at the corners would help to redirect the vehicle so it never actually has that small overlap crash. It would always be directed away from the object, which then might be more like a side impact, which the vehicle is very well prepared to handle.

Obviously I know nothing about physics. Just thinking out loud.

With the wedge, it might not grab the front wheel either.

I know! A wedge on a big spring like the springs under elevators. So the vehicle bounces off the object. Yeah. Um. Okay.

Anyway, Fiat is undoubtedly working on it, and may have improved the performance of the other two vehicles in the small overlap test before they are released.

You already have the Dart, and it is rated Acceptable for the small overlap test:
http://www.iihs.org/iihs/ratings/vehicle/v/dodge/dart

Even so, you can still bang your head:
Restraints and dummy kinematics

The driver door opened in the second test, which shouldn't happen because the driver could be partly or completely ejected from the vehicle. Still, in the second test, the dummy’s head loaded the frontal airbag, which stayed in front of the dummy until rebound. (Camera views from outside the car suggest that dummy movement was very similar in the first test.) In both tests, the side curtain airbag deployed but does not have sufficient forward coverage to protect the head from contact with forward side structure and outside objects. The side torso airbag also deployed in both tests.

Rivmage
07-31-2014, 02:49 PM
Always check the details! Click on "Small Overlap Front" at each of these links:

500L: http://www.iihs.org/iihs/ratings/vehicle/v/fiat/500l/2014
Escape: http://www.iihs.org/iihs/ratings/vehicle/v/ford/escape



500L:
Restraints and dummy kinematics

The dummy’s head contacted the frontal airbag but slid off the left side as the steering column moved 13 cm to the right, contributing to the head hitting the A-pillar. The side curtain airbag deployed and had sufficient forward coverage to protect the head from contact with side structure and outside objects. The side torso airbag also deployed.

Escape:
Restraints and dummy kinematics

The dummy’s head barely contacted the frontal airbag before sliding off the left side as the steering column moved to the right, leaving the head vulnerable to contact with forward side structure. Additionally, the seat belt allowed excessive forward excursion of the dummy’s head and torso. The side curtain airbag deployed but does not have sufficient forward coverage to protect the head from contact with forward side structure and outside objects.

I really don't want to hit my head at all, but if I had to choose between the two, I'd go for the better side coverage air bags.

If you notice in the multiple cars report, several of the vehicles have specific production dates:
http://www.iihs.org/iihs/news/desktopnews/range-of-ratings-small-car-ratings-run-the-gamut-in-challenging-small-overlap-front-test

"built after December 2013" and "built after February 2014".

I'm guessing there were differences prior to those dates that would mean the vehicles could not be considered the same, and therefore, the small overlap test results could not be extended to those models.

Currently, there is no info on the Fiat site for the 2015 Fiat 500L. I'm just guessing, but I think Fiat is probably working on improving those small overlap test results.

The small overlap test is NEW, it hasn't always been in place. It came out last year. And the test for the 500L was just done.

There's only one thing I'm worried about in a crash, frankly, and that's me. I don't really care what happens to the car. It can fold into an origami crane for all I care, as long as I can get out alive. I drive alone, so I don't have passengers, and this test is about running into stationary objects.

Looking at the pictures, it would seem a small air bag popping out of the A-pillar would prevent the head from hitting it. And I don't know anything about the underlying structure, but perhaps a "wedge" shape right there at the corners would help to redirect the vehicle so it never actually has that small overlap crash. It would always be directed away from the object, which then might be more like a side impact, which the vehicle is very well prepared to handle.

Obviously I know nothing about physics. Just thinking out loud.

With the wedge, it might not grab the front wheel either.

I know! A wedge on a big spring like the springs under elevators. So the vehicle bounces off the object. Yeah. Um. Okay.

Anyway, Fiat is undoubtedly working on it, and may have improved the performance of the other two vehicles in the small overlap test before they are released.

You already have the Dart, and it is rated Acceptable for the small overlap test:
http://www.iihs.org/iihs/ratings/vehicle/v/dodge/dart

Even so, you can still bang your head:
Restraints and dummy kinematics

The driver door opened in the second test, which shouldn't happen because the driver could be partly or completely ejected from the vehicle. Still, in the second test, the dummy’s head loaded the frontal airbag, which stayed in front of the dummy until rebound. (Camera views from outside the car suggest that dummy movement was very similar in the first test.) In both tests, the side curtain airbag deployed but does not have sufficient forward coverage to protect the head from contact with forward side structure and outside objects. The side torso airbag also deployed in both tests.

Because it is a new test, this appears to be a weak point in car safety. Subaru seems to be handling this test well outside of the BRZ and Outback.

FCA needs to step up their game in this regard as most of their vehicles that have been tested get Marginal or Poor ratings.

Scott

Rivmage
07-31-2014, 03:00 PM
Always check the details! Click on "Small Overlap Front" at each of these links:

500L: http://www.iihs.org/iihs/ratings/vehicle/v/fiat/500l/2014
Escape: http://www.iihs.org/iihs/ratings/vehicle/v/ford/escape



500L:
Restraints and dummy kinematics

The dummy’s head contacted the frontal airbag but slid off the left side as the steering column moved 13 cm to the right, contributing to the head hitting the A-pillar. The side curtain airbag deployed and had sufficient forward coverage to protect the head from contact with side structure and outside objects. The side torso airbag also deployed.

Escape:
Restraints and dummy kinematics

The dummy’s head barely contacted the frontal airbag before sliding off the left side as the steering column moved to the right, leaving the head vulnerable to contact with forward side structure. Additionally, the seat belt allowed excessive forward excursion of the dummy’s head and torso. The side curtain airbag deployed but does not have sufficient forward coverage to protect the head from contact with forward side structure and outside objects.

I really don't want to hit my head at all, but if I had to choose between the two, I'd go for the better side coverage air bags.

If you notice in the multiple cars report, several of the vehicles have specific production dates:
http://www.iihs.org/iihs/news/desktopnews/range-of-ratings-small-car-ratings-run-the-gamut-in-challenging-small-overlap-front-test

"built after December 2013" and "built after February 2014".

I'm guessing there were differences prior to those dates that would mean the vehicles could not be considered the same, and therefore, the small overlap test results could not be extended to those models.

Currently, there is no info on the Fiat site for the 2015 Fiat 500L. I'm just guessing, but I think Fiat is probably working on improving those small overlap test results.

The small overlap test is NEW, it hasn't always been in place. It came out last year. And the test for the 500L was just done.

There's only one thing I'm worried about in a crash, frankly, and that's me. I don't really care what happens to the car. It can fold into an origami crane for all I care, as long as I can get out alive. I drive alone, so I don't have passengers, and this test is about running into stationary objects.

Looking at the pictures, it would seem a small air bag popping out of the A-pillar would prevent the head from hitting it. And I don't know anything about the underlying structure, but perhaps a "wedge" shape right there at the corners would help to redirect the vehicle so it never actually has that small overlap crash. It would always be directed away from the object, which then might be more like a side impact, which the vehicle is very well prepared to handle.

Obviously I know nothing about physics. Just thinking out loud.

With the wedge, it might not grab the front wheel either.

I know! A wedge on a big spring like the springs under elevators. So the vehicle bounces off the object. Yeah. Um. Okay.

Anyway, Fiat is undoubtedly working on it, and may have improved the performance of the other two vehicles in the small overlap test before they are released.

You already have the Dart, and it is rated Acceptable for the small overlap test:
http://www.iihs.org/iihs/ratings/vehicle/v/dodge/dart

Even so, you can still bang your head:
Restraints and dummy kinematics

The driver door opened in the second test, which shouldn't happen because the driver could be partly or completely ejected from the vehicle. Still, in the second test, the dummy’s head loaded the frontal airbag, which stayed in front of the dummy until rebound. (Camera views from outside the car suggest that dummy movement was very similar in the first test.) In both tests, the side curtain airbag deployed but does not have sufficient forward coverage to protect the head from contact with forward side structure and outside objects. The side torso airbag also deployed in both tests.

As far as why there are built date listed from some car, some of the automakers requested time to do an update on the cars for the new test. Plus, some automakers have done the test twice now after earning a poor rating on the first test.

Example would be the CX-5, ones manufactured after 10/1/13 are an IIHS TSP+, ones like mine before were only IIHS TSP.

Scott

shadowshaggy
07-31-2014, 03:29 PM
Because it is a new test, this appears to be a weak point in car safety. Subaru seems to be handling this test well outside of the BRZ and Outback.

FCA needs to step up their game in this regard as most of their vehicles that have been tested get Marginal or Poor ratings.

Scott

This test was invented only a few years ago and almost every small car failed it, you need to look into that. Here's the thing, the safety institute that comes up with these tests - they do things like this to keep the car mfg from every keeping up, that's the issue.

So, if you'll look on the IIHS website (http://www.iihs.org/iihs/news); you'll see that something to the tune of 70% of vehicles fail this test - you cannot let the insurance company bully you into buying "safe" vehicles and being afraid of leaving the house. That is what this boils down to, not trying to tell you how to run your life or anything; but I think you'll understand my point.

Rivmage
07-31-2014, 04:07 PM
This test was invented only a few years ago and almost every small car failed it, you need to look into that. Here's the thing, the safety institute that comes up with these tests - they do things like this to keep the car mfg from every keeping up, that's the issue.

So, if you'll look on the IIHS website (http://www.iihs.org/iihs/news); you'll see that something to the tune of 70% of vehicles fail this test - you cannot let the insurance company bully you into buying "safe" vehicles and being afraid of leaving the house. That is what this boils down to, not trying to tell you how to run your life or anything; but I think you'll understand my point.

Trust me, I'm not scared off of any vehicle. I have ridden motorcycles, atv, snow mobiles, etc. Also, I believe there are too many safety regs and if the government had their way with them, we all would be wearing bubblewrap suits to avoid getting hurt if we trip.

Scott

shadowshaggy
07-31-2014, 04:11 PM
Trust me, I'm not scared off of any vehicle. I have ridden motorcycles, atv, snow mobiles, etc. Also, I believe there are too many safety regs and if the government had their way with them, we all would be wearing bubblewrap suits to avoid getting hurt if we trip.

Scott

I wasn't implying you were, but you mentioned your wife saying something about it. I was making a point that all vehicle are inherently dangerous, you take a 1.5 ton steel object and slam it into a stationary object; something has to give.

evbruno
08-01-2014, 03:15 AM
This test was invented only a few years ago and almost every small car failed it, you need to look into that. Here's the thing, the safety institute that comes up with these tests - they do things like this to keep the car mfg from every keeping up, that's the issue.

So, if you'll look on the IIHS website (http://www.iihs.org/iihs/news); you'll see that something to the tune of 70% of vehicles fail this test - you cannot let the insurance company bully you into buying "safe" vehicles and being afraid of leaving the house. That is what this boils down to, not trying to tell you how to run your life or anything; but I think you'll understand my point.

It is a new test cars large and small are not doing well.
Look at this report for the Midsize Luxury class

http://www.iihs.org/iihs/ratings/v/class-summary/midsize-luxury-near-luxury-cars

http://www.iihs.org/iihs/ratings/v/class-summary/small-suvs

http://www.iihs.org/iihs/ratings/v/class-summary/midsize-suvs

it will be 2-5 years before improvements show up in the various vehicles from the various auto makers depending on each models design and update cycle. You have do to the design work, testing, change the manufacturing lines.
With common platforms, an issue like this affects more than one model.

Fiat500USA
08-02-2014, 10:08 AM
Because it is a new test, this appears to be a weak point in car safety. Subaru seems to be handling this test well outside of the BRZ and Outback.

FCA needs to step up their game in this regard as most of their vehicles that have been tested get Marginal or Poor ratings.

Scott

I don't know if I would say that exactly. Both Fiats were Top Safety picks by the IIHS until this test and have both received the highest crash ratings in both Europe and North America. Here is a link to various stories on Fiat safety. (http://www.fiat500usa.com/search/label/Safety) The IIHS is the only one in the world doing this style test, so it is expected that manufacturers would need to catch up. Fiat has a strong history of safety innovation in affordable cars, so I expect them to catch up in this test too. Remember, the 500L was originally to be released in 2011 and designed well before this crash test. Same with the NAFTA 500. Production on that started in 2010, well before the IIHS test. If you look on this forum, you'll see some real world crashes that some of our members have been through. The cars can take a pretty good hit.