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NOTHINGCUTEABOUTMYCAR
07-03-2014, 05:23 PM
I was advised to send the throttle body back via PM. The sender states that it hinders the performance of the ecu piggy back as the car is a "fly by wire." Not sure what that even means. Help???

EliRider
07-03-2014, 06:45 PM
I can not speak for throttle body replacements - but I'm running the Craven Speed Throttle Body Spacer with the UniChip with zero problems. It's quite nice setup. The theory is that the spacer provide a slight increase in mass.

I can not imagine why a throttle body upgrade would be any different. And I have not heard any complaints so far with booster modules. I do believe UniChip is the way to go.

Some believe that a spacer adds no value - but I feel it does and very happy with my current combo.

cy-clone33
07-03-2014, 06:46 PM
fly by wire means there is no mechanical connection from the pedals etc to the engine its like a remote control plane its all done by servos the drivers compartment is the radio control box, the engine is the plane

I don't know why that would be a negative with the throttle body ? I just bought a new bored unit from NGEN and I have the TORK tune

NOTHINGCUTEABOUTMYCAR
07-03-2014, 07:26 PM
Thanks for your input. I figured that more air flow=more power no matter what ecu mod you run.... but that's just silly me there, lol!

NGEN
07-05-2014, 04:15 PM
Scratching my head on that one....

I'm curious to have the person that told you that to speak out on why they feel a throttle body upgrade would affect using an ECU piggyback or Unichip. It shouldn't have any affect at all.

NOTHINGCUTEABOUTMYCAR
07-24-2014, 07:48 AM
Scratching my head on that one....

I'm curious to have the person that told you that to speak out on why they feel a throttle body upgrade would affect using an ECU piggyback or Unichip. It shouldn't have any affect at all.

Simply put, a vendor contacted me via PM and said that a bored out throttlebody would not help the cars performance a bit and that I'd just wasted $. I won't mention the vendor in post but let's say I likely won't be shopping there in the future..

motoraway
07-24-2014, 10:28 AM
I'm running the MPx bored throttle body with Magneti Marelli ECM and whoever sent you the PM is just plain WRONG.
Had the box long before the throttle body and it definitely made a very noticeable difference after it was installed.
My butt-dyno don't lie!!

trevc
07-24-2014, 10:34 AM
Would love to know who that vendor was although I think I may already know.
I have been running a Modern Performance body since they came out, first with a TMC box then RRM U3 and now Unichip. The difference is noticeable.

AudiGuy
07-24-2014, 10:52 AM
#hogwash. Someone is either feeding you lies, or doesnt know what they are talking about. Either one of those reasons would be cause for alarm. Just think, the person you are getting that advice from is the same person you are trusting to deliver a quality tune..

RUN

shagghie
07-24-2014, 10:57 AM
This thread needs to be over. You got bad advice predicated on a misunderstanding of how this engine makes power and what it does with more air. It was dyno'd at +6hp gain, and everyone's butt's can confirm that both in throttle response as well as upper-rpm legs. All that said, it doesn't mean the vendor is being crafty or sneaky or malicious etc..it just might mean they misunderstand the engine and got some bad intel themselves from someone else maybe. They may be just as much of a victim of the advice as you almost were, but you did well to pose the question to the community instead of taking the advice on blind faith.

nilfinite
07-24-2014, 11:18 AM
The throttle body is just another air restriction. After the car starts up, the throttle body remains fully open and the multi-air system takes care of the rest.

Meaning a bored throttle body will let more air through just like we want our intake to let more air through.

krayzielilsmoki
07-24-2014, 11:36 AM
I get the sense that a couple people on this thread are assuming that John from Tork Motorsports was the sender of that message. I say this because of comments like this "Just think, the person you are getting that advice from is the same person you are trusting to deliver a quality tune.."

For some reason John gets a bad rep on these forums. His customer service skills may be lacking but he knows his stuff. Also if you look at the sig for the OP you can see he got the TB from Tork.
Whoever the sender of the message is, maybe they don't think that that specific TB is a good investment, or they don't understand that there are proven gains of a bigger TB. Either way I think it is very malicious activity if an actual Vendor is trying to mess with another vendors business.

AudiGuy
07-24-2014, 12:17 PM
I get the sense that a couple people on this thread are assuming that John from Tork Motorsports was the sender of that message. I say this because of comments like this "Just think, the person you are getting that advice from is the same person you are trusting to deliver a quality tune.."

For some reason John gets a bad rep on these forums. His customer service skills may be lacking but he knows his stuff. Also if you look at the sig for the OP you can see he got the TB from Tork.
Whoever the sender of the message is, maybe they don't think that that specific TB is a good investment, or they don't understand that there are proven gains of a bigger TB. Either way I think it is very malicious activity if an actual Vendor is trying to mess with another vendors business.

I didnt think it was Tork. Based on his sig, I figured it was Madness. I said that about the tune because it sounded like someone was trying to call the TB the culprit to issues he was having with the tune. But I think my comment holds water. If someone is telling you that a TB is a bad idea, and they are selling you a tune.. That should be a red flag. I wasnt pointing fingers at anyone in particular. Its just bad to give people your opinion (no matter how ill advised) and act like its fact.

LittleEvil
07-24-2014, 12:25 PM
maybe it wasn't a vendor at all, just saying.

AudiGuy
07-24-2014, 12:41 PM
maybe it wasn't a vendor at all, just saying.

Im sure thats possible. just sounded like someone who has some sort of perceived knowledge. I assumed it was a vendor

Haring
07-24-2014, 12:53 PM
maybe it wasn't a vendor at all, just saying.

Post 6 the OP mentions it's a vendor.

NOTHINGCUTEABOUTMYCAR
07-24-2014, 12:54 PM
I get the sense that a couple people on this thread are assuming that John from Tork Motorsports was the sender of that message. I say this because of comments like this "Just think, the person you are getting that advice from is the same person you are trusting to deliver a quality tune.."

For some reason John gets a bad rep on these forums. His customer service skills may be lacking but he knows his stuff. Also if you look at the sig for the OP you can see he got the TB from Tork.
Whoever the sender of the message is, maybe they don't think that that specific TB is a good investment, or they don't understand that there are proven gains of a bigger TB. Either way I think it is very malicious activity if an actual Vendor is trying to mess with another vendors business.


I bought the TB from Tork and have no beef with them for the product. Others do email me bashing them however. ..

NOTHINGCUTEABOUTMYCAR
07-24-2014, 12:59 PM
I didnt think it was Tork. Based on his sig, I figured it was Madness. I said that about the tune because it sounded like someone was trying to call the TB the culprit to issues he was having with the tune. But I think my comment holds water. If someone is telling you that a TB is a bad idea, and they are selling you a tune.. That should be a red flag. I wasnt pointing fingers at anyone in particular. Its just bad to give people your opinion (no matter how ill advised) and act like its fact.
I can assure everyone that Madness has been nothing but helpful and professional. They have never run a product down or a vendor for that matter... to me anyway.

AudiGuy
07-24-2014, 01:03 PM
I can assure everyone that Madness has been nothing but helpful and professional. They have never run a product down or a vendor for that matter... to me anyway.

I wasnt trying to start drama. Just pointing out the facts, and what it seems we are hearing. FWIW, Ive had both the MPX and the Tork TB. Miles apart in terms of quality of work/machining. I would be interested to know who gave you that info though. I have heard it before, but its really hard to argue against a "properly" ported throttle body. Its made quite a difference on my car.

FWIW, heres the difference between the 2 TBs

http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp199/Eskougor/GreyRocket/5248773A-7654-45DF-AA53-D1190C813F07.jpg (http://s411.photobucket.com/user/Eskougor/media/GreyRocket/5248773A-7654-45DF-AA53-D1190C813F07.jpg.html)

Ill let you draw your own conclusion. Im not here to influence, just enlighten.

krayzielilsmoki
07-24-2014, 01:17 PM
I didnt think it was Tork. Based on his sig, I figured it was Madness. I said that about the tune because it sounded like someone was trying to call the TB the culprit to issues he was having with the tune. But I think my comment holds water. If someone is telling you that a TB is a bad idea, and they are selling you a tune.. That should be a red flag. I wasnt pointing fingers at anyone in particular. Its just bad to give people your opinion (no matter how ill advised) and act like its fact.

sorry for assuming :culpability:

AudiGuy
07-24-2014, 01:18 PM
sorry for assuming :culpability:
Its all good. Its not easy understanding peoples motivation in posts.

krayzielilsmoki
07-24-2014, 01:20 PM
I bought the TB from Tork and have no beef with them for the product. Others do email me bashing them however. ..

This is what I meant. People bash John and his products without first hand experience, but I actually have the Tork tune and I cannot recommend it enough.
I have no comment about the TB situation though. I would need to see dyno charts on both to form an educated opinion.

NOTHINGCUTEABOUTMYCAR
07-24-2014, 01:44 PM
This is what I meant. People bash John and his products without first hand experience, but I actually have the Tork tune and I cannot recommend it enough.
I have no comment about the TB situation though. I would need to see dyno charts on both to form an educated opinion.

Tork ' s Throttlebody may not be the best on the market but it was a ported TB on a tight budget. Others may be nicer but better flow if better flow... just saying.

NOTHINGCUTEABOUTMYCAR
07-24-2014, 02:00 PM
This thread needs to be over. You got bad advice predicated on a misunderstanding of how this engine makes power and what it does with more air. It was dyno'd at +6hp gain, and everyone's butt's can confirm that both in throttle response as well as upper-rpm legs. All that said, it doesn't mean the vendor is being crafty or sneaky or malicious etc..it just might mean they misunderstand the engine and got some bad intel themselves from someone else maybe. They may be just as much of a victim of the advice as you almost were, but you did well to pose the question to the community instead of taking the advice on blind faith.

In my opinion... don't send advise as a vendor if you have no clue... for me to not know is understandable. When you're a vendor... YOU OUTTA KNOW BETTER....... IT IS YOUR BUSINESS TO KNOW. Do vendors have all the answers, no but they should know what it is they speak of before they go running other products down. It lacks professionalism and tact.

Guest
07-24-2014, 03:21 PM
Ive been told by a few vendors, trusted members and tuners here and elsewhere that on the Abarth, the throttle body is a pointless modification.

AudiGuy
07-24-2014, 03:38 PM
Ive been told by a few vendors, trusted members and tuners here and elsewhere that on the Abarth, the throttle body is a pointless modification.
Sounds like people are just blowing smoke. Because I for one am VERY happy with the difference this mod makes on my car.

krayzielilsmoki
07-24-2014, 03:47 PM
Ive been told by a few vendors, trusted members and tuners here and elsewhere that on the Abarth, the throttle body is a pointless modification.

I know on a NA car the throttle body is a big deciding factor on how much power you make because the flow of air depends on it, but in a forced induction setup it may not be as big of a performance gain since the air is forced in. Now regardless of power increase or not, it should definitely help with throttle response because it opens up to accept more air being pushed in.

PS NOTHINGCUTEABOUTMYCAR clear out your inbox

musicsurf
07-24-2014, 03:52 PM
The throttle body is just another air restriction. After the car starts up, the throttle body remains fully open and the multi-air system takes care of the rest.

Meaning a bored throttle body will let more air through just like we want our intake to let more air through.

This isn't actually true. The throttle modulates while driving. It is shut most of the way while idling and opens up to 87-ish percent at WOT. You can log the absolute throttle position PID to watch it.

shagghie
07-24-2014, 03:53 PM
it depends if the size of the tB is large enough to accommodate how much air is being pushed in. In our application that depends on how much boost we are seeing.
Agree on the responsiveness, you get more air faster.

But also seriously, the butt dyno is off the hook with this thing. If you can't feel the difference after you put it on then imHo there's no reason for you to be even modding the engine to begin with. This is an obvious no brainer, and cheap, and effective. It might depend on if the intake is flow limited too, relative to the size of the TB opening.

AudiGuy
07-24-2014, 03:55 PM
I know on a NA car the throttle body is a big deciding factor on how much power you make because the flow of air depends on it, but in a forced induction setup it may not be as big of a performance gain since the air is forced in. Now regardless of power increase or not, it should definitely help with throttle response because it opens up to accept more air being pushed in.

PS NOTHINGCUTEABOUTMYCAR clear out your inbox

Increased air flow is a good thing, regardless of forced induction/NA. As long as you dont compromise smooth flow for volume, theres really no way that a ported TB wont have a benefit. I find it interesting that there are people who think that a ported TB is a bad idea, yet not 1 shred of proof offered to back it up. Until I hear otherwise, Ill give it the same amount of credibility that I give the statement that "FMICs dont belong on our cars" (statement made by the same shop that has this opinion on ported TBs). That credibility is ZERO

NOTHINGCUTEABOUTMYCAR
07-24-2014, 03:57 PM
I know on a NA car the throttle body is a big deciding factor on how much power you make because the flow of air depends on it, but in a forced induction setup it may not be as big of a performance gain since the air is forced in. Now regardless of power increase or not, it should definitely help with throttle response because it opens up to accept more air being pushed in.

PS NOTHINGCUTEABOUTMYCAR clear out your inbox

Inbox cleared... sorry

nilfinite
07-24-2014, 04:27 PM
This isn't actually true. The throttle modulates while driving. It is shut most of the way while idling and opens up to 87-ish percent at WOT. You can log the absolute throttle position PID to watch it.

Huh interesting! I thought the TB was always open except for at start up. In that case maybe the throttle body spacer does actually do something then.

mudking
07-24-2014, 04:46 PM
Increased air flow is a good thing, regardless of forced induction/NA. As long as you dont compromise smooth flow for volume, theres really no way that a ported TB wont have a benefit. I find it interesting that there are people who think that a ported TB is a bad idea, yet not 1 shred of proof offered to back it up. Until I hear otherwise, Ill give it the same amount of credibility that I give the statement that "FMICs dont belong on our cars" (statement made by the same shop that has this opinion on ported TBs). That credibility is ZERO

found where a rep from the vendor is making this statement.... http://www.dodge-dart.org/forum/dodge-dart-1-4l-multiair-turbo/18903-rrm-ultimate-vs-unichip.html#post303822

I have an MpX and have had ZERO issues for over 15000 miles and never had an issue with either the TMC v1 or the short run I had with the Unichip( which apparently is not going well with the Dart folks)

krayzielilsmoki
07-24-2014, 05:08 PM
found where a rep from the vendor is making this statement.... http://www.dodge-dart.org/forum/dodge-dart-1-4l-multiair-turbo/18903-rrm-ultimate-vs-unichip.html#post303822

I have an MpX and have had ZERO issues for over 15000 miles and never had an issue with either the TMC v1 or the short run I had with the Unichip( which apparently is not going well with the Dart folks)

Wow lots of misinformation on that thread...

Sales@roadrace
07-24-2014, 05:09 PM
RC Engineering has been making TBs for Rob for years. He asked them about doing one for this car, and they said No Way, They wouldn't touch it. Because these cars have a lot of sensors to monitor everything going on. When you have a lot of mods, the ported TB will send a signal that is beyond the range the car is looking for. This causes the car to adjust and run less than optimal. After we were told this we backed off doing one, then we started getting calls form customers that have them and were having problems. Every time that happen, they went back to stock, and the problem was fixed, the car ran better in all aspects.

It could work fine up to a certain point I imagine. But the customers we have, and the parts we make, are beyond that point. We don't sell a TB, we don't have one on our race car. If we thought it would help of course we'd have one. Our goal is to make it as fast as possible.

So with the tech info from RC and the real world complaints we've been dealing with, we don't think it's a good idea when building a significantly tuned car.

krayzielilsmoki
07-24-2014, 05:19 PM
RC Engineering has been making TBs for Rob for years. He asked them about doing one for this car, and they said No Way, They wouldn't touch it. Because these cars have a lot of sensors to monitor everything going on. When you have a lot of mods, the ported TB will send a signal that is beyond the range the car is looking for. This causes the car to adjust and run less than optimal. After we were told this we backed off doing one, then we started getting calls form customers that have them and were having problems. Every time that happen, they went back to stock, and the problem was fixed, the car ran better in all aspects.

It could work fine up to a certain point I imagine. But the customers we have, and the parts we make, are beyond that point. We don't sell a TB, we don't have one on our race car. If we thought it would help of course we'd have one. Our goal is to make it as fast as possible.

So with the tech info from RC and the real world complaints we've been dealing with, we don't think it's a good idea when building a significantly tuned car.

From what I understand the tech info from RC stated that the TB could cause a problem if used in conjunction with other mods. Did they state that the throttle body on its own has no performance gain?

shagghie
07-24-2014, 05:22 PM
now we need Modern Performance to chime in and explain why they saw/see benefits. The only problems I've heard yet on the forums was the very very first batch of TBs that MPx put out had a production glitch. They proactively sent brand new TB's out to everyone with an RMA shipping label to return the first one. After that, I haven't read of a single instance of anyone having any issues with it. On the contrary all I have ever seen was praise and 'biggest no brainer ever' comments. I mean you put it on and you put the gas pedal down and right away you are like WOW because a) throttle response b) top end.

Sales@roadrace
07-24-2014, 05:26 PM
From what I understand the tech info from RC stated that the TB could cause a problem if used in conjunction with other mods. Did they state that the throttle body on its own has no performance gain?

Not sure that was discussed, but there are a lot of guys that have them, without too many mods, that are getting small gains. I digest the info out there to figure things out. So going off of real world testing by all of you. I'd say it will give you a little bump at first, but down the line will be a weak link. All the products we make were designed for our race car, now that we've made enough stuff, we're going racing. We don't really have the mindset of selling you something that kinda works sometimes. We offer you products so that eventually you can run as fast as we do. No agenda other than that. Some vendors need to look around at what everybody else is doing, to figure out what they can do next. We do not. We make the parts that all our individual experiences have shown us to work. At first Rob looked at running a ported TB, but at the end of the day we don't believe in it for what we are doing, and what we recommend.

shadowshaggy
07-24-2014, 05:30 PM
RC Engineering has been making TBs for Rob for years. He asked them about doing one for this car, and they said No Way, They wouldn't touch it. Because these cars have a lot of sensors to monitor everything going on. When you have a lot of mods, the ported TB will send a signal that is beyond the range the car is looking for. This causes the car to adjust and run less than optimal. After we were told this we backed off doing one, then we started getting calls form customers that have them and were having problems. Every time that happen, they went back to stock, and the problem was fixed, the car ran better in all aspects.

It could work fine up to a certain point I imagine. But the customers we have, and the parts we make, are beyond that point. We don't sell a TB, we don't have one on our race car. If we thought it would help of course we'd have one. Our goal is to make it as fast as possible.

So with the tech info from RC and the real world complaints we've been dealing with, we don't think it's a good idea when building a significantly tuned car.

There's a MAP/Speed Density sensor on this car that aims to measure pressure/vacuum rather than air volume. We would have a MAF if Fiat felt they wanted the volume of air. Unless there is something physically wrong with the unit or a defective sensor, you should have no issues with adjustment; unless your ported piece has an issue itself. Maybe it wasn't cleaned well enough; but there are ported tb's for dozens of drive-by-wire applications, so what would make this car so "special" that they wouldn't do it....makes little sense to me.

A ported TB sends the TPS signal to your ECM, so if your "signal modifier" aka piggyback is sending the wrong signal then it is the fault of said "signal modifier" not the ported tb. Try using the bypass plug and see if you have the same issue ;) I bet you wouldn't. I don't have a ported tb nor a piggyback so you can take my two cents for whatever you want to take it as, but I'll provide all the evidence to back up my statement if someone feels so inclined.

A correctly ported tb won't cause an issue, unless it wasn't cleaned right. A poorly ported tb will cause idle issues. If this was false, why are close to 50 members running a ported tb with a piggyback and not having an issue? Perhaps the same reason there was a V4 with a melted inlet; it's called a freak accident. We all gonna jump ship with ATM because of something out of their control, never gonna happen. They make a great product and had one minor mishap, sh!t happens guys.

One last thing, see the above bold statement: You can cram all the air through a small hole you want, you make a larger hole and said air will be more efficient coolgleam and efficient air flow is what makes more and better power, I'm done now.

Mpx Throttle Body info (https://www.modernperformance.com/product/MPx_Ported_Throttle_Body_Dart/500-14l-turbo-and-abarth-engine)

AudiGuy
07-24-2014, 05:43 PM
Not sure that was discussed, but there are a lot of guys that have them, without too many mods, that are getting small gains. I digest the info out there to figure things out. So going off of real world testing by all of you. I'd say it will give you a little bump at first, but down the line will be a weak link. All the products we make were designed for our race car, now that we've made enough stuff, we're going racing. We don't really have the mindset of selling you something that kinda works sometimes. We offer you products so that eventually you can run as fast as we do. No agenda other than that. Some vendors need to look around at what everybody else is doing, to figure out what they can do next. We do not. We make the parts that all our individual experiences have shown us to work. At first Rob looked at running a ported TB, but at the end of the day we don't believe in it for what we are doing, and what we recommend.

Dude quit acting like you have definitive proof when you have nothing to offer by way of actual testing. Calling the TB a "weak link" when you've done ZERO testing is worthless. Conjecture, yes. Relavent, factual info, not even close. Your making it worse by offering your opinion, when your stating things as fact.

AudiGuy
07-24-2014, 05:46 PM
RC Engineering has been making TBs for Rob for years. He asked them about doing one for this car, and they said No Way, They wouldn't touch it. Because these cars have a lot of sensors to monitor everything going on. When you have a lot of mods, the ported TB will send a signal that is beyond the range the car is looking for. This causes the car to adjust and run less than optimal. After we were told this we backed off doing one, then we started getting calls form customers that have them and were having problems. Every time that happen, they went back to stock, and the problem was fixed, the car ran better in all aspects.

It could work fine up to a certain point I imagine. But the customers we have, and the parts we make, are beyond that point. We don't sell a TB, we don't have one on our race car. If we thought it would help of course we'd have one. Our goal is to make it as fast as possible.

So with the tech info from RC and the real world complaints we've been dealing with, we don't think it's a good idea when building a significantly tuned car.

Translation - We guess and take people at their word, instead of testing for ourselves.
#notimpressed

shagghie
07-24-2014, 05:51 PM
A correctly ported tb won't cause an issue, unless it wasn't cleaned right. A poorly ported tb will cause idle issues. If this was false, why are close to 50 members running a ported tb with a piggyback and not having an issue? Perhaps the same reason there was a V4 with a melted inlet; it's called a freak accident. We all gonna jump ship with ATM because of something out of their control, never gonna happen.

Mpx Throttle Body info (https://www.modernperformance.com/product/MPx_Ported_Throttle_Body_Dart/500-14l-turbo-and-abarth-engine)

How did you jump from the V4 to ATM? Missing the connection there, but vibe what you are laying down regardless. Just a curiosity on my part!

mactography
07-24-2014, 05:53 PM
How did you jump from the V4 to ATM? Missing the connection there, but vibe what you are laying down regardless. Just a curiosity on my part!

I was confused by that as well, but perhaps he got the vendors mixed. It was my V4 and I've already received new inlet pieces as of this afternoon. Waiting on the car to cool down some (and the afternoon heat) and I'll be popping the new ones on. :)

NOTHINGCUTEABOUTMYCAR
07-24-2014, 06:04 PM
There's a MAP/Speed Density sensor on this car that aims to measure pressure/vacuum rather than air volume. We would have a MAF if Fiat felt they wanted the volume of air. Unless there is something physically wrong with the unit or a defective sensor, you should have no issues with adjustment; unless your ported piece has an issue itself. Maybe it wasn't cleaned well enough; but there are ported tb's for dozens of drive-by-wire applications, so what would make this car so "special" that they wouldn't do it....makes little sense to me.

A ported TB sends the TPS signal to your ECM, so if your "signal modifier" aka piggyback is sending the wrong signal then it is the fault of said "signal modifier" not the ported tb. Try using the bypass plug and see if you have the same issue ;) I bet you wouldn't. I don't have a ported tb nor a piggyback so you can take my two cents for whatever you want to take it as, but I'll provide all the evidence to back up my statement if someone feels so inclined.

A correctly ported tb won't cause an issue, unless it wasn't cleaned right. A poorly ported tb will cause idle issues. If this was false, why are close to 50 members running a ported tb with a piggyback and not having an issue? Perhaps the same reason there was a V4 with a melted inlet; it's called a freak accident. We all gonna jump ship with ATM because of something out of their control, never gonna happen. They make a great product and had one minor mishap, sh!t happens guys.

One last thing, see the above bold statement: You can cram all the air through a small hole you want, you make a larger hole and said air will be more efficient coolgleam and efficient air flow is what makes more and better power, I'm done now.

Mpx Throttle Body info (https://www.modernperformance.com/product/MPx_Ported_Throttle_Body_Dart/500-14l-turbo-and-abarth-engine)

I never imagined this thread would receive such a following but am glad everyone has chimed in. I can assure every vendor on this forum that the way to win a customer isn't to bash a product or to tell them they've thrown their Money away. If I did have my eyes on anything with them before... I sure as heck don't now. The vendors explanation backing up the claim was poor at best in my opinion.

NOTHINGCUTEABOUTMYCAR
07-24-2014, 06:06 PM
translation - we guess and take people at their word, instead of testing for ourselves.
#notimpressed

lol

shadowshaggy
07-24-2014, 06:29 PM
I got no one confused, you misunderstand my point - Fact A: These are built by people Fact B: People make mistakes

It makes no difference who the vendor is, the observation was things can happen and no one is perfect ;)

AudiGuy
07-25-2014, 08:19 AM
I hope you dont mind, but I quoted your stance on the ported TB issue from the dart link posted in this thread.


I stand corrected. The ported TB has been found to hinder the cars performance. Maybe you feel a little bit if that's your first mod. But we spoke with some people much more knowledgeable than us on the subject, the fly-by-wire doesn't like the porting as much as thought. It doesn't act the way a mechanical one does, sometimes it's WOT when you're not. Field tests have shown this to be true over and over

And the results of these test is where? Im guessing in the same place as your definitive proof that FMICs are a bad idea.

trevc
07-25-2014, 09:58 AM
Rob can be a stubborn guy sometimes!

I hope you dont mind, but I quoted your stance on the ported TB issue from the dart link posted in this thread.



And the results of these test is where? Im guessing in the same place as your definitive proof that FMICs are a bad idea.