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bsc70
05-08-2014, 01:53 AM
Ok, so I finished the install on front and rear wilwood brake kit and filled up brake fluid reservoir and noticed all the supplied fittings from wilwood that connect to factory brake lines are leaking. I have tried swapping them around but they still leak has anyone had this problem or is it just my bad luck?

AudiGuy
05-08-2014, 08:21 AM
Ok, so I finished the install on front and rear wilwood brake kit and filled up brake fluid reservoir and noticed all the supplied fittings from wilwood that connect to factory brake lines are leaking. I have tried swapping them around but they still leak has anyone had this problem or is it just my bad luck?

Thats strange. Which connections? A link to the kit or photos might help.

crankin
05-08-2014, 08:44 AM
In my experience it is realllllly easy to cross thread brake fittings, but also learned that even the slightest variation in the cone even though the are the same thread pitch can cause a leak. Definetly verify with Wilwood you got the correct ones. There is almost no discernable visual difference.

bsc70
05-16-2014, 01:27 PM
Installed the brake kit on front and rear but the fittings they provided for the brake line (factory hard line to steel braided line) are all leaking. I have tried swapping them around from front to back and still leaking even called wilwood and sent them pictures of the fittings to make sure they were the right ones (they said yes). Has anyone had issues like this or is it just me, any suggestions or advise?

FTY
05-16-2014, 01:46 PM
I would take pictures of the fittings and send them to wild-wood or contact the vendor you purchased them from and see if they can offer some support!

AudiGuy
05-16-2014, 01:54 PM
Those fittings should have thread tape on them.

ophidia31
05-16-2014, 02:26 PM
Those fittings should have thread tape on them.

Shouldnt use thread tape on brake lines since brake fluid will dissolve the tape and youre back at square one. The flares on the fittings are what does the sealing. I would say they arent mating up properly. Ive used wilwood lines before on other cars and when i made a brake set for my last car and they worked perfectly. Maybe just got a bad set.

Robert Nixon
05-16-2014, 03:00 PM
didn't you just post this the other day?

http://www.fiat500usaforum.com/showthread.php?15613-Wilwood-brake-upgrade&highlight=brake

AudiGuy
05-16-2014, 05:38 PM
Shouldnt use thread tape on brake lines since brake fluid will dissolve the tape and youre back at square one. The flares on the fittings are what does the sealing. I would say they arent mating up properly. Ive used wilwood lines before on other cars and when i made a brake set for my last car and they worked perfectly. Maybe just got a bad set.
I only say that because of this video. I thought the same thing. Check out 2:04 in this vid.

Fwiw I've done more than a couple brake caliper upgrades, and this was the first time I've seen someone use thread tape.
And yes, the flares in the ends should eliminate any need for thread tape.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0UuYZYOk2Bo

http://youtu.be/0UuYZYOk2Bo

ophidia31
05-16-2014, 06:20 PM
I only say that because of this video. I thought the same thing. Check out 2:04 in this vid.

Fwiw I've done more than a couple brake caliper upgrades, and this was the first time I've seen someone use thread tape.
And yes, the flares in the ends should eliminate any need for thread tape.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0UuYZYOk2Bo

How about that. Ive watched that video multiple times and never noticed him doing that. Still dont know if id trust that though.

crankin
05-16-2014, 07:12 PM
No thread tape on flare fittings. If you did it could possibly contaminate the fluid and block passage. Could be the wrong fittings JIC vs SAE. Same thread different cone.

ophidia31
05-16-2014, 07:55 PM
Just watched the video again and caught it and remembered this as well but still didnt use it on mine without issue. The fitting going into the caliper is considered a pipe fitting. If you look at it, its isnt a flared end like the other end or rest of the brake lines. Still kind of iffy with it being used.

ReconTopher
05-16-2014, 08:47 PM
didn't you just post this the other day?

http://www.fiat500usaforum.com/showthread.php?15613-Wilwood-brake-upgrade&highlight=brake

If you don't get the answer you want, just start another thread. Common forum tactic. haha ;)

Fiat500USA
05-16-2014, 09:45 PM
didn't you just post this the other day?

http://www.fiat500usaforum.com/showthread.php?15613-Wilwood-brake-upgrade&highlight=brake


Merged the threads.

crankin
05-16-2014, 10:39 PM
You are correct the fitting going into the caliper is NPT which is taper thread where normally you would use tape ie water, gas, but the brake fittings are brass so they deform properly without the use of tape or dope. Similar to the copper wahers you would use one the banjo bolt. If you line are leaking, they either cross threaded which is very easy to do, or the have the wrong cone (taper) even though they thread in no problem.

streetsurfer
05-17-2014, 12:09 AM
By removing and re-installing, then removing and re-installing, you've work hardened and possibly galled or split the lines.

bsc70
05-17-2014, 07:53 AM
Yeah, forgot! still having problem with leaks even though wilwood says the fittings are the right ones. Put the original brake lines on and have no leaks (imagine that). To bad the original lines do not fit wilwood calipers.

ophidia31
05-17-2014, 09:25 AM
Can also shoot roadrace an email or call and see what they say. They sell the wilwood kits along with their own lines for stock calipers. They may have some insight into the fittings.

AudiGuy
05-17-2014, 10:06 AM
Almost sounds like Willwood gave you the wrong fittings.

nilfinite
07-04-2014, 01:16 PM
Have been having a bear of a time installing the brake lines... For anyone that's installed the brake lines, was there a lip at the end of the brake line fitting that prevents you of easily removing and installing a new brake line? When I was taking off the OEM brake line, I was spinning the line for hours until I realized that it was just spinning but not moving. Unlike the Wilwood video where the original brake line just came off easily (I also couldn't unscrew it with my hands like he could).

Eventually I had to use leverage to get it out. Now I'm trying to force the new brake line onto the fitting and it won't go on, guessing I just need two pliers to force it back on there. In any case, the installation process is not as easy as the Wilwood video looks....

FxEpic
06-05-2019, 10:50 AM
I'm having the same issues with the Wilwood (adapter) fitting that goes from the hard line to the flex line. It is leaking at the hard line. On the OEM, I can literally hand tighten the hard line and there is no static leak. With the Wilwood Adapter I have put what feels like way too uch torque and it still leaks. I think that the angle of the seat that meets the hard line is incorrect. I tried BOTH front adapter fittings and they both leaked. Burned through 1 whole bottle of Motul 5.1 before giving up. VERY, VERY disappointed, Wilwood. In the Fiat Wilwood Video above the tech hand tightened the hard line which is as it should be. They must have changed suppliers? I suspect the rear kit will also leak as bsc70 has indicated. I ordered a Competizione Sport Tuning Stainless Steel Brake Line Kit from 500 Madness. Lets see how that does.

mr16valve
06-06-2019, 08:22 AM
Give an update to this as you progress.
This is disheartening - this was my next planned upgrade.
Not that it matters, but where did you purchase the kit from?

texanbrit
06-06-2019, 03:34 PM
I bought my Wilwoods through NGEN Performance in 2017. Didn't have these problems, but there was an issue with the rear pads being too thick and needing trimming.

I did have issues with my existing brake lines not wanting to detach from the car, but it's hard to make that Wilwood's fault.

Peterszew
06-11-2019, 08:48 AM
I have this kit waiting on installation in my garage - is it worth reaching out to Wilwood / NGEN on this?

texanbrit
06-11-2019, 02:19 PM
Always worth asking.

Peterszew
06-11-2019, 02:31 PM
bought a pair of used Neu-f front SS brake lines just in case I need them...

FxEpic
06-26-2019, 08:27 PM
Hi Guys, I bought My Wilwoods from CarID. 500Madness has them too and if I were to do it again I'd probably get it from them. Even tho I didn't buy from them they have been very helpful. I will post a full report on all things I've had to do for this install. But for now the Competizione lines from 500Madness is the answer to the Wilwood leaks. The Competizione lines are VERY different to the Wilwoods. The difference is in the "bubble" flare. The ones from Competizione sealed finger tight with no leak just like the OEM. That said, you will have to get additional fittings because the fitting on the Wilwood caliper is not like the OEM which the Competizione is (M10 x 1.0). In addition the Wilwood caliper needs a 90 degree fitting especially in the rear. It may sound tedious but I will say, I was able to install the front calipers and do a mild test ( I have not bedded them as yet) and I am very impressed. So more later.
No issues with the pads being too thick.
A question for "texanbrit" I'm also having a real issue now with my right rear rubber OEM line not seperating from the hardline fitting, just as you did. (Not the one at the caliper but the one with female/female fittings near the fuel tank). How did you seperate them?!
Here is the Competizione Line, it's a 2 second video showing how the Competizione fitting can rotate:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1-YyDQbS8zhhU0xt_90G3xC1MkJuWzp66
And Here are Wilwood, Competizione and OEM
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NGEN
06-27-2019, 08:09 AM
I ended up ditching the wilwood hoses in the front and installed the neu-f brake hoses. The fronts leaked but the the rears were fine. No issue with removing brakes hoses that I could remember

Peterszew
06-27-2019, 09:09 AM
I ended up ditching the wilwood hoses in the front and installed the neu-f brake hoses. The fronts leaked but the the rears were fine. No issue with removing brakes hoses that I could remember

so the Neu-f hoses bolted up to the Wilwood kit?

FxEpic
06-27-2019, 01:55 PM
I took a look at the Neu-F, Neuspeed Sport Brake Line Kit. It looks VERY much like the Competizione kit from 500Madness! If it is, the male ends are (OEM) M10x1.0 and DOES NOT fit into the Wilwood caliper without a 1/8 NPT male to M10 Female fitting, in addition as I mentioned above I suggest getting a 90 degree 1/8 NPT Male/ Female fitting and then Screw the 1/8 NPT tp M10 into the 90 degree fitting. The Wilwood Line kit comes with a 90 degree fitting and I can see why, The line bends in an arkward way when it comes out perpendicular to the caliper, the line needs to connect to the caliper from the top (best). I could not find a 90 degree male 1/8 NPT to Female M10x1.0 anywhere, hence the two fittings to get the 90 degree. That said, these are brass fittings and (straight from Wilwood) need to have thread sealant on the fittings. Wilwood's Fiat installation video shows the Tech wrapping the fitting with Teflon. Everything I read suggests that as only a last resort. Permatex makes a thread sealant that includes brake fluid/fittings: 59214 High temp Thread Sealant and permatex recommends using their Surface Prep on the Fittings beforehand. (What ever you don't use the Surface Prep with Loctite Red 271, if you do, The cure time is NOW!)

Peterszew
06-27-2019, 02:18 PM
I took a look at the Neu-F, Neuspeed Sport Brake Line Kit. It looks VERY much like the Competizione kit from 500Madness! If it is, the male ends are (OEM) M10x1.0 and DOES NOT fit into the Wilwood caliper without a 1/8 NPT male to M10 Female fitting, in addition as I mentioned above I suggest getting a 90 degree 1/8 NPT Male/ Female fitting and then Screw the 1/8 NPT tp M10 into the 90 degree fitting. The Wilwood Line kit comes with a 90 degree fitting and I can see why, The line bends in an arkward way when it comes out perpendicular to the caliper, the line needs to connect to the caliper from the top (best). I could not find a 90 degree male 1/8 NPT to Female M10x1.0 anywhere, hence the two fittings to get the 90 degree. That said, these are brass fittings and (straight from Wilwood) need to have thread sealant on the fittings. Wilwood's Fiat installation video shows the Tech wrapping the fitting with Teflon. Everything I read suggests that as only a last resort. Permatex makes a thread sealant that includes brake fluid/fittings: 59214 High temp Thread Sealant and permatex recommends using their Surface Prep on the Fittings beforehand. (What ever you don't use the Surface Prep with Loctite Red 271, if you do, The cure time is NOW!)

Thanks a lot for this intel - do you have a link to where you purchased these fittings?

FxEpic
06-27-2019, 04:20 PM
Thanks a lot for this intel - do you have a link to where you purchased these fittings?

Wilwood Caliper Adapter 1/8 NPT Male To 10MM X 1.0 Inverted Female, You'll need 4:
https://www.technafitstore.com/ADAPTER-1-8-NPT-MALE-TO-10MM-X-1-0-INV-FEM-p/fm1810w.htm

90 Degree L Shape Forged Pipe Fitting, 1/8" NPT Male to 1/8" NPT Female(Pack of 2), You'll need 2:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B074DTL1N4/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_U_S1rfDbQK4E5WP


Here's a handy tip: I was losing lots of Motul 5.1 brake fluid (lost 1.5 bottles) while trying to separate the OEM rubber line from the hard line (still have issues) besides not having much time before having to climb out from under the car to fill up the reservoir. I decided to cover the air vent in the reservoir cap. I used a thin food grade silicone mat that I had. (Remember that brake fluid is harsh and will melt many things, don't want contamination, you could probably use a thick Ziploc bag too) I cut the mat just VERY slightly smaller than the cap's ID and put the cap back on... Voila, Zero fluid came out of the hard line! Now I can evaluate the situation at my leisure. (That was late last night so I'll tackle it again soon) As it stands, I have three full braided lines installed and my right rear has a partial install, as I said, just the short Female/Female line needs some love. Soon (Now that I don't have brake fluid running down my arms). I did put One heat cycle into the Caliper/Pad/Rotors last night. Woohoo, I love this Wilwood Big Brake setup. I saw on another thread where they are saying that there will be too much pedal play for the bigger caliper/ rotors but that is absolutely not true. I have a hard pedal and definitely less effort. I have Competizione E30, 17x7.5 wheels with Firestone Indy 500 205/40R 17 tires and I did not feel like it was going to ABS at all. I think I need to put in at least one more heavy heat cycle into the set tho, I don't like how the rotors look as yet.

FxEpic
07-01-2019, 01:37 PM
Ok Guys, I have an Update on the 90 degree fitting change over; my Brass fitting Failed. The short of it is that I will not be using Brass fittings on my brakes in the future. I did not want to use brass fittings originally but when I was looking for the fitting, M10 x 1.0 Female to 1/8 NPT Male, I could not find it in steel and I was comforted knowing that Wilwood themselves offered a brass fitting for a Caliper (that fitting was the wrong size for me but Brass nonetheless):
https://wilwood.com/LineKits/LineKitsProd?itemno=220-0628

Having said that, I actually don't know if the failure was because of the loading from the previous non 90 degree connection at the caliper. My left front was fine but the Right Front M10x1.0 failed. (pic included). I had a spare which I installed. I was able, after all, to find a Stainless Steel M10 x1.0 Female to 1/8 NPT Male fitting at Holley:
https://www.holley.com/products/plumbing_an_fittings_and_hose/hardline/tube_nuts/parts/02102ERL

I got the 90 degree SS fitting at Titan, item SS-5502-02-02:
https://www.titanfittings.com/Pipe-90-Street-Elbow-stainless-steel-5502-p/ss-5502.htm?1=1&CartID=0

I should be getting both fittings this week. Luckily I'm not losing as much brake fluid when I work on the calipers using my reservoir Cap Seal, except for bleeding after the change, still quite a bit tho. I won't be doing any heavy braking, just in case, and my second heat cycle/bedding will have to wait until the Stainless Steel swap out. "One Love"

(For some reason the pics are truncated so I added a pic of the 90 degree by itself)

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Peterszew
07-02-2019, 11:36 AM
Thanks for the update - sucks that happened - spoke with 500madness and they said they have not had any leakage on the Wilwood lines in the recent past - is it worth trying to go down that route again? Is teflon tape an option?

FxEpic
07-02-2019, 12:34 PM
No, Don't do Teflon tape. Undisturbed apparently it is fine but if you remove or disturb the assembly fine pieces can fall into the caliper. This is what I was told, I think by Technafit, can't remember now as I was calling all over, but it kinda makes sense. Use the Permatex 59214 thread Sealant, It Works.
I did not have any luck with the Wilwood Braided Line Kit on the FRONT. I did not try the REAR lines since I had problems with the Front and I knew it was NOT my hard Line Flare. Others have had no Issues so I don't know what to tell you. I will say that if you do have issues with the Wilwood braided lines, you can always go to the Competizione lines, they work and Madness sells them BUT you WILL have to get the M10 x 1.0 adapter and the 90 degree fitting and as above, I suggest not using Brass. I will tell you tho, these Wilwoods are a ton of FUN! Good Luck!

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Peterszew
07-08-2019, 09:16 AM
Looks awesome!

FxEpic
07-08-2019, 04:43 PM
Looks awesome!

Thanks! I replaced all the Brass fittings with Stainless Steel fittings on all four corners this weekend.
I still have that confounded problem of my Right Rear Inner, Female/Female OEM Rubber hose that will NOT separate from the hardline. The hard-line flare nut unscrews but then just stops and spins but never comes out of the Female OEM rubber hose; even tho I removed a slight kink just behind the flare nut. This time after the failed attempt to replace it with the braided hose, I had to really crank down on the flare nut to stop it leaking. I don't think I can loosen this fitting any longer. On my next attempt I will have to be prepared to:
A. Cut the fitting off
B. Replace the whole Right Rear hard line
C. Pray for a Miracle that it will come loose by itself.

I'm going for A & C! Lots involved in cutting off the fitting. Besides getting the correct flare nut, I'm looking into an inline or on-car ISO/bubble flare repair tools or kits. I also have to consider the shorter hard line; so I may also have to get a line un-bender to take out some of the S bends and give me a bit more line to work with.
I welcome ANY suggestions!
'Till then I'm stuck with just one rubber hose and it's bugging the c#&p out of me.

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