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SCIENCE
02-13-2014, 09:43 PM
Now, for reason that I go through in great detail in this thread, putting an aftermarket 9006/9012 HID kit into our stock bi-halogen projectors is just plain wrong. Not as much of an offense as putting HIDs in halogen reflectors, but we can still do much better. So enter the world of an HID projector retrofit. Removing our stock bi-halogen projector and installing in its place a projector actually designed for HID bulbs. So let's get on with it with my progress thus far!

After quite a while of screwing around with the endlessly frustrating permasealed headlights, I finally got in to the goodies. Pictures to follow, with explanations below.

The projector itself is actually attached to the shroud. So to remove the projector, we also remove the shroud. The shroud is held in at three points with simple ball and socket fasteners. Very easy to pull out. You'll notice one of mine broke, that's simply because I was rushing and being careless. It's very easy to avoid if you're paying attention.

https://ycpi-farm4.staticflickr.com/3815/12379455205_4e0b7c220f_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12379455205/)
P1011473 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12379455205/) by gnrfan228 (http://www.flickr.com/people/29717190@N06/), on Flickr


http://l6.yimg.com/so/7303/12379613643_c8fd2c70fd_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12379613643/)
P1011474 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12379613643/) by gnrfan228 (http://www.flickr.com/people/29717190@N06/), on Flickr


http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5482/12379890944_1bf1a63355_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12379890944/)
P1011475 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12379890944/) by gnrfan228 (http://www.flickr.com/people/29717190@N06/), on Flickr


http://l6.yimg.com/so/7346/12379890744_001363895e_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12379890744/)
P1011476 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12379890744/) by gnrfan228 (http://www.flickr.com/people/29717190@N06/), on Flickr

Close up of the solenoid (bottom) and power plug for the solenoid (black box above that). Note that the halogen model E46 projector only needs two solenoid wires. Almost all of the Bosch E46 bixenon projectors require a 3 pin connection. Since our wiring is designed for the 2 pin connection, we require an adapter which I will link below.


https://ycpi-farm8.staticflickr.com/7357/12379454525_694813ac17_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12379454525/)
P1011477 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12379454525/) by gnrfan228 (http://www.flickr.com/people/29717190@N06/), on Flickr

Projector is held to the shroud by 4 Torx 25 screws. I'll mention the smaller black one later.


http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7327/12379890324_a283e00783_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12379890324/)
P1011478 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12379890324/) by gnrfan228 (http://www.flickr.com/people/29717190@N06/), on Flickr

Other side of the projector. No small black torx screw on this side.


https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3765/12379612853_fdb17d8080_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12379612853/)
P1011479 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12379612853/) by gnrfan228 (http://www.flickr.com/people/29717190@N06/), on Flickr

http://ycpi-farm8.staticflickr.com/7459/12379612473_d6cafd1725_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12379612473/)
P1011480 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12379612473/) by gnrfan228 (http://www.flickr.com/people/29717190@N06/), on Flickr


These lenses are generally hated in the retrofit world as it blurs your cutoff, but I've always had a special love for them. Probably from my background in theatre/ballet lighting.

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5504/12379453895_ae376163ca_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12379453895/)
P1011481 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12379453895/) by gnrfan228 (http://www.flickr.com/people/29717190@N06/), on Flickr

Couple shots of the projector bowl incoming


http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7388/12379887124_78376aabb3_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12379887124/)
P1011482 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12379887124/) by gnrfan228 (http://www.flickr.com/people/29717190@N06/), on Flickr

http://l6.yimg.com/so/7455/12379453125_f5ed5bbb47_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12379453125/)
P1011489 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12379453125/) by gnrfan228 (http://www.flickr.com/people/29717190@N06/), on Flickr


http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3799/12379611123_3649f9c1fb_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12379611123/)
P1011490 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12379611123/) by gnrfan228 (http://www.flickr.com/people/29717190@N06/), on Flickr

View of how the solenoid/cutoff shield works. The entire shield is pushed forward and down for the high beam.


http://ycpi-farm8.staticflickr.com/7289/12379889614_4dd10f5f8d_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12379889614/)
P1011483 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12379889614/) by gnrfan228 (http://www.flickr.com/people/29717190@N06/), on Flickr


http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7434/12379453485_58bcfa6f70_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12379453485/)
P1011484 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12379453485/) by gnrfan228 (http://www.flickr.com/people/29717190@N06/), on Flickr


https://v4s.yimg.com/sm/5525/12379889444_b830a3f333_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12379889444/)
P1011485 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12379889444/) by gnrfan228 (http://www.flickr.com/people/29717190@N06/), on Flickr

Now here's that curious black torx screw again. I believe this is to adjust the cutoff shield. So you could push the shield a little forward to get more light in your low beam/sharpen your cutoff.


https://v4s.yimg.com/sm/5471/12379889154_650e3dfece_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12379889154/)
P1011487 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12379889154/) by gnrfan228 (http://www.flickr.com/people/29717190@N06/), on Flickr

Now for some measurements. As I thought, standard 3" lens. This is good news. Won't have any problem getting an HID projector to fit the shroud opening.


http://a.l.yimg.com/so/7292/12379610993_3b9be0d9d8_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12379610993/)
P1011491 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12379610993/) by gnrfan228 (http://www.flickr.com/people/29717190@N06/), on Flickr

Shroud on its own.


http://l2.yimg.com/sk/3827/12379452175_82bd8317b1_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12379452175/)
P1011492 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12379452175/) by gnrfan228 (http://www.flickr.com/people/29717190@N06/), on Flickr

https://ycpi-farm6.staticflickr.com/5516/12379610173_dbd6ac2f79_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12379610173/)
P1011493 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12379610173/) by gnrfan228 (http://www.flickr.com/people/29717190@N06/), on Flickr


You can see the mounting holes in the shroud here. This is actually very surprising to me and very good news for retrofits. This means just about any 3" projector will fit in here. Just have to adapt it to fit those mounting holes. Easy stuff. What this also allows for is not having to rig up an adjustment system for rotation, horizontal and vertical adjustment of the light. It just uses the exact same system as the stock projector. Excellent news! Except for the permaseal this should prove to be a very easy retrofit.

And now the mounting measurements.


https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3790/12379609293_7910585987_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12379609293/)
P1011494 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12379609293/) by gnrfan228 (http://www.flickr.com/people/29717190@N06/), on Flickr

Let me know if you have any questions! I'll be posting updates here as I make progress. Getting in touch with theretrofitsource next week to see if there's an OEM bixenon projector that will fit those mounting holes with no modification. If not, then possibly something from their retro-quick setups will, and if not, we just do good old fashioned retrofitting goodness. More posts to follow.

SCIENCE
02-13-2014, 09:45 PM
For the top mounting holes, the Acura TL and Mini D2S will fit. They're 82mm, the stock projector is 82.55mm. Next closest for the top mounts is my favorite projector, the EVOX-R at 78mm. One problem being that I'm certain that PDF refers to the old Mini D2S, not the new 3.0 one. The Acura TL is a fantastic projector. Would just need to make two small little plates at the bottom for the bottom screws to mount into. Only concern with the TL is its tremendous size. Below are a few measurements of the stock projector I just took. I'll have to remount it sometime in the next few days to measure what kind of vacant space we have once it's mounted inside the housing. I'm sure we could go wider and a little taller, but what's going to limit us is the depth. Once the bulb is mounted, it's awful close to the back of the headlight and the housing cap. Once we account for a D2S connector, we're really cutting it close. What we have working for us is that the solenoid on the stock projector sticks out a good bit on the bottom, which means there is room. Not as big as the TL's though, so that will definitely need to be measured for clearance. The TL's solenoid is HUGE.

Now: Stock projector max height: 3.54 inches, or 90mm


http://ycpi-farm8.staticflickr.com/7331/12392848715_ceb078e330_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12392848715/)
P1011496 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12392848715/) by gnrfan228 (http://www.flickr.com/people/29717190@N06/), on Flickr

Stock projector max width: 4.06 inches or 103mm


http://l2.yimg.com/sk/3825/12392848705_50806c0db7_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12392848705/)
P1011498 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12392848705/) by gnrfan228 (http://www.flickr.com/people/29717190@N06/), on Flickr

Finally, stock projector max depth: 6.03 inches, or 153mm.

From these we can determine that the TL is larger in every aspect. Too large? I don't know yet.


http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3761/12393297844_42dbdfd193_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12393297844/)
P1011499 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12393297844/) by gnrfan228 (http://www.flickr.com/people/29717190@N06/), on Flickr

Good news is that there are plenty of bixenon projectors to choose from, not just the ones in the PDF. It's just a case of if their measurements are well documented. This is what I'll be getting in touch with TRS to find out. More posts to follow, still playing catch up.

SCIENCE
02-13-2014, 09:53 PM
And the last catch up post. After this, we're up to date. After the above two posts I was able to confirm that the projector is a halogen version of the Bosch/AL E46. Meaning that the Bosch/AL bixenon projector is a drop in replacement. Mounting holes line up beautifully. In the next post I'll detail the parts needed, so some of this post may not make sense until you read the post after it.

(begin original post)

Thankfully got the projector in a day early. I doubt I'll get mail in tomorrow due to weather. Great news. Bolts on perfectly!


http://a.l.yimg.com/so/7399/12489132414_5c4d47805a_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12489132414/)
P1011502 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12489132414/) by gnrfan228 (http://www.flickr.com/people/29717190@N06/), on Flickr

Only "issue" is that it doesn't completely fill the shroud at the front. Very small difference though. It honestly doesn't bother me much, but I did do some modification for the sake of documentation, as I'm sure it might bother some people. This can be minimized, possibly even fixed as I'll detail below.


http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3736/12489132934_52b648851e_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12489132934/)
P1011500 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12489132934/) by gnrfan228 (http://www.flickr.com/people/29717190@N06/), on Flickr


http://ycpi-farm8.staticflickr.com/7364/12488787733_a6a8e1ce95_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12488787733/)
P1011503 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12488787733/) by gnrfan228 (http://www.flickr.com/people/29717190@N06/), on Flickr

There are the four mounting holes in the shroud, which are posts. You can dremel a bit off of them so that the projector can sit closer to the shroud. Just make sure if you do it, you dremel them evenly, or the projector won't look even in relation to the shroud.


http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7421/12488663735_910a506b9d_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12488663735/)
P1011504 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12488663735/) by gnrfan228 (http://www.flickr.com/people/29717190@N06/), on Flickr

Here are a few shots taken after me modifying the mounting posts to get it to sit more flush with the shroud opening. I need to make them a little more even.

https://ycpi-farm8.staticflickr.com/7377/12488786943_9ef651146a_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12488786943/)
P1011505 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12488786943/) by gnrfan228 (http://www.flickr.com/people/29717190@N06/), on Flickr


http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2872/12488786393_9b19a39076_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12488786393/)
P1011508 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12488786393/) by gnrfan228 (http://www.flickr.com/people/29717190@N06/), on Flickr


https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3666/12489130034_df605a0212_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12489130034/)
P1011509 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12489130034/) by gnrfan228 (http://www.flickr.com/people/29717190@N06/), on Flickr

You remove the lens holder from the projector by removing 4 T20 screws.


http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5481/12488785873_60a3dff3fc_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12488785873/)
P1011511 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12488785873/) by gnrfan228 (http://www.flickr.com/people/29717190@N06/), on Flickr

Once you remove the lens holder, you can slide the solenoid/shield assembly out from the projector bowl. Here you can see main shield as well as the smaller "RV" shield. This will cause your cutoff line to be blurry and yellowed. So it's generally advised to remove this if you want to best cutoff line, but nothing will be harmed if you leave it there.


http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3831/12488785973_5cfb50e27d_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12488785973/)
P1011513 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12488785973/) by gnrfan228 (http://www.flickr.com/people/29717190@N06/), on Flickr

It also covers a hole in the shield which I'll get to.


https://s3.yimg.com/so/7391/12489129734_0bc5c705f5_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12489129734/)
P1011514 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12489129734/) by gnrfan228 (http://www.flickr.com/people/29717190@N06/), on Flickr

Another shot of the RV shield. Some people choose to use needle nose pliers to bend the shield forward, but I opted to use a dremel with a metal cutoff wheel as I didn't want to risk bending the main shield with the pliers.


http://l2.yimg.com/sk/3688/12488784913_203006d284_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12488784913/)
P1011515 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12488784913/) by gnrfan228 (http://www.flickr.com/people/29717190@N06/), on Flickr

RV shield go bye-bye (you could also grind off the rivets if you want)

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5504/12489300164_f5fa2cdfa1_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12489300164/)
P1011517 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12489300164/) by gnrfan228 (http://www.flickr.com/people/29717190@N06/), on Flickr

Now the hole is what's referred to as a "squirrel finder" it'll appear so far above the cutoff line that it'll just be up in the trees. So it won't harm oncoming traffic, but it's pretty useless. So most people, myself included opt to cover it. I use high temperature aluminum tape to cover the hole.


https://s2.yimg.com/sk/3796/12489299904_9273a2d014_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12489299904/)
P1011518 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12489299904/) by gnrfan228 (http://www.flickr.com/people/29717190@N06/), on Flickr

Went back after this picture and put a piece of aluminum tape on the side that faces the bulb as well.


http://a.l.yimg.com/sj/2817/12488832995_f9ed020d81_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12488832995/)
P1011519 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12488832995/) by gnrfan228 (http://www.flickr.com/people/29717190@N06/), on Flickr

Here's a shot of the stock lens and lens holder. I'll post up the ZKW-R lens installation once I get them in.


http://ycpi-farm6.staticflickr.com/5481/12488784613_3d074453a8_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12488784613/)
P1011516 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12488784613/) by gnrfan228 (http://www.flickr.com/people/29717190@N06/), on Flickr

SCIENCE
02-13-2014, 10:04 PM
Now, parts needed.

Pair of: Bosch/AL E46 D2S Bixenon projectors. Find these on ebay. Here (http://www.ebay.com/itm/330967944523?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649) is an example of one already sold. Make sure you do NOT buy ZKW made E46 projectors. Only Bosch/AL.

2 of each: Solenoid wire converters and wiring pigtails: Both on this (http://www.wolstentech.com/products/bixenon/bixenon.php) page.

Pair: D2S ballasts. You can go OEM or aftermarket. If you do go aftermarket, I recommend morimoto ballasts.

Pair: D2S bulbs. Again, you can go OEM or aftermarket. OEM is definitely recommended here, but again, morimoto bulbs are a cheaper option. 4300k will be the brightest, 5000k next, and 6000k after that, and is the highest I would go while still having usable light.

1 of: Wiring harness: NOTE: I HAVE NOT TESTED THIS YET. I WILL UPDATE WHEN I DO. But I believe we need the MOPAR spec 9012 harness from theretrofitsource. Our cars have a canbus system, and I don't know how picky it is. The MOPAR spec harness is only $10 more and won't hurt anything if it turns out we don't need the extra bits. We're using 9012, not a bixenon harness because you will still be using the stock solenoid wiring through the housing, into the adapter, and to the projector.

Optional: Pair of: ZKW-R (http://www.theretrofitsource.com/components/lenses/zkw-r-clear-lenses.html#.Uv144_ldXvY) clear lenses. The stock E46 lenses are very cloudy. Definitely recommend going with these clear lenses, especially if you're going for a great cutoff.

Optional/Recommended: Pair of TYC headlight housings: NOTE: I HAVE NOT TESTED THESE YET TO CONFIRM WHETHER THEY USE BUTYL OR PERMASEAL. PLEASE WAIT FOR ME TO UPDATE BEFORE PURCHASING. These can be purchased on ebay for ~$250-275 per pair. Definitely recommended for novices. Do not use your OEM headlights unless you're experienced, VERY patient, have a lot of time to kill, and don't mind potentially ruining them. Don't underestimate permaseal.

ScorpionSkins.com
02-13-2014, 10:14 PM
I'd just like to echo my thoughts from the red forum and thank you again for all the time you've put into thoroughly documenting this for the rest of us. Much appreciated!

ophidia31
02-13-2014, 10:21 PM
Awesome. Im glad that the stock ones are able to be fitted with new projectors. Ill be watching this thread closely.

After my last car, i dont want to go the pnp route even though it worked pretty well in those stock halogen projector housings. Also because a retrofit wasnt possible without major surgery. The highbeam bucket bracketry and projector bracketry was all in one.

SCIENCE
02-13-2014, 10:29 PM
Thanks everyone for the support!

Yeah, I decided not to go into full detail on why HID's in projectors or reflectors designed for halogen use is bad. People are generally set in their ways. I've managed to convert a few, but it's such a headache dealing with the ones who won't (pun intended) see the light. It's all science! There's no refuting it. :sucks:

Kurumi
02-13-2014, 11:48 PM
SCIENCE, I bought canbus adapters to use for my 9006 setup from TRS but it turns out that I don't need them as the car runs fine without the adapters. Just FYI, though it may be different when you go to D2S.

SCIENCE
02-13-2014, 11:52 PM
SCIENCE, I bought canbus adapters to use for my 9006 setup from TRS but it turns out that I don't need them as the car runs fine without the adapters. Just FYI, though it may be different when you go to D2S.

Did you go with 35 or 50w ballasts? Thanks for the post!

I went ahead and bought the mopar harness earlier today before I read your post. Like I said, it won't hurt anything. And even if CANBUS doesn't give a bulb out error, there can still be bulb flickering that the mopar harness will fix.

jflexe99
02-14-2014, 12:18 AM
I will be watching this thread. Very good stuff!

theporschephile
02-14-2014, 07:42 AM
I also got the kit with canbus adapters. Does that mean I can plug the bulbs straight into the ballast, or do I now need to get a harness?

BigDaddySRT
02-14-2014, 08:46 AM
I was dreaming about this exact Project this morning as I drove into the Gym at 3:50am.

The Challenger's HID's blow the doors off the ABARTH... the ABARTH has great output, but horrible Color.


Thanks for taking the Leap and helping others.

Kurumi
02-14-2014, 11:06 AM
I also got the kit with canbus adapters. Does that mean I can plug the bulbs straight into the ballast, or do I now need to get a harness?

Try it without the adapters and see if you get an error code.

Kurumi
02-14-2014, 11:07 AM
Did you go with 35 or 50w ballasts? Thanks for the post!

I went ahead and bought the mopar harness earlier today before I read your post. Like I said, it won't hurt anything. And even if CANBUS doesn't give a bulb out error, there can still be bulb flickering that the mopar harness will fix.

I bought the 35w Ballast since I was unsure if 50w was too much power and might cause heat issues.

SCIENCE
02-14-2014, 05:43 PM
I also got the kit with canbus adapters. Does that mean I can plug the bulbs straight into the ballast, or do I now need to get a harness?

My understanding is that the CANBUS adapters are standalone. You still need the relay harness, which the CANBUS adapters will plug into. I would never ever ever ever ever... ever run HID's without a relay harness. It's one thing to mess up an OEM headlight, but if you screw the factory wiring harness... ouch.


I bought the 35w Ballast since I was unsure if 50w was too much power and might cause heat issues.

As long as you're using a relay harness, 50w is perfectly fine. The Bosch/AL E46's handle them great. I'll be running the 50w morimoto ballasts in mine. As always, stuff can always happen, so I accept no responsibility if your projector bowls are burned! It's just highly unlikely with these projectors. I've never heard of a Bosch/AL E46 projector having burned bowls. Only the ZKW ones.

theporschephile
02-14-2014, 08:33 PM
Hmmm... maybe it already has the relays then. I'll have to double check.


side note: everytime I see your username I think of the Thomas Dolby song, "She Blinded me with Science" I think cuz it's all caps, so I scream it in my head, haha

SCIENCE
02-14-2014, 09:06 PM
It's not real SCIENCE if you aren't doing it enthusiastically :thumbsup:

And here (http://www.theretrofitsource.com/components/harnesses/morimoto-9012-low-beam-relay-wire-harness.html#.Uv69WPldXvY) is what the 9012 relay harness looks like. Relay harnesses have saved my ass many times. A pack of fuses is a hell of a lot cheaper than what would happen if you didn't have one.

theporschephile
02-14-2014, 09:10 PM
yup, definitely don't have those. When I ordered the kit the option was canbus or harness, and i wasn't sure so i went with canbus. I think i'll e-mail matt and see what he says before I install it. Not like i'm going to be installing it anytime soon with how cold it's been anyways.

SCIENCE
02-14-2014, 09:45 PM
yup, definitely don't have those. When I ordered the kit the option was canbus or harness, and i wasn't sure so i went with canbus. I think i'll e-mail matt and see what he says before I install it. Not like i'm going to be installing it anytime soon with how cold it's been anyways.

Well, according to the CANBUS harness page, apparently it can be used without an actual relay harness. I wouldn't do it, but if TRS says it's okay, then go with that.

Kurumi
02-15-2014, 09:26 AM
Well, according to the CANBUS harness page, apparently it can be used without an actual relay harness. I wouldn't do it, but if TRS says it's okay, then go with that.

TRS said it was fine so I didn't have relays as well. It does concern me a bit though.

SCIENCE
02-15-2014, 02:42 PM
TRS said it was fine so I didn't have relays as well. It does concern me a bit though.

Yikes, I mean obviously TRS knows their own product better than I do, without having taken apart and examined a CANBUS harness. But as you said, it is still concerning.

SCIENCE
02-19-2014, 04:33 PM
Well there's some good news and bad news.

First off, I can confirm that they are TYC.

https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2814/12640750765_dd8df233c9_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12640750765/)
P1011520 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12640750765/) by gnrfan228 (http://www.flickr.com/people/29717190@N06/), on Flickr

On the outside, they are visually identical except for the missing 500 logo on the bezel.

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7366/12640750505_0e498dcf74_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12640750505/)
P1011521 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12640750505/) by gnrfan228 (http://www.flickr.com/people/29717190@N06/), on Flickr

Here's the back. One of mine did not come with the back housing cap. Which actually isn't so bad because the one they did include will not latch in. At least not mine. So you will need housing caps from OEM lights. I tested one of those and it worked.

https://v4s.yimg.com/sm/5500/12640749895_50abeb3051_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12640749895/)
P1011523 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12640749895/) by gnrfan228 (http://www.flickr.com/people/29717190@N06/), on Flickr

Projector does use the same bulbs.

https://ycpi-farm3.staticflickr.com/2843/12640749585_c3d409c952_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12640749585/)
P1011525 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12640749585/) by gnrfan228 (http://www.flickr.com/people/29717190@N06/), on Flickr

...But it isn't the same projector. Had a feeling this would happen. It's some very cheap copy with different mounting holes and an entirely different projector bowl. I won't even bother going more in depth with it. It's garbage, leave it at that, throw it out, give it to someone else. Don't use it.

https://v4s.yimg.com/sm/5516/12641229104_c4c781dfba_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12641229104/)
P1011526 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12641229104/) by gnrfan228 (http://www.flickr.com/people/29717190@N06/), on Flickr

Now back to some good news. The sealant is not like any butyl I've come across before, so I think it's more like a very weak permaseal based on its physical properties. Got the first light apart in an hour, the second in 45 minutes.

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7366/12640878933_41e65a1fa4_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12640878933/)
P1011530 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12640878933/) by gnrfan228 (http://www.flickr.com/people/29717190@N06/), on Flickr

Our stock projector put into the shroud of the TYC housing. Doesn't line up at all.

https://ycpi-farm8.staticflickr.com/7321/12641228314_433d73084f_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12641228314/)
P1011531 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12641228314/) by gnrfan228 (http://www.flickr.com/people/29717190@N06/), on Flickr

Mounting holes of the TYC projector. I'm not aware of anything that will fit this.

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3811/12640181315_f467cbd173_o.png (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12640181315/)
tycprojector (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12640181315/) by gnrfan228 (http://www.flickr.com/people/29717190@N06/), on Flickr

Which leads me to my conclusion. You absolutely can't do this retrofit with the Bosch E46 Bi-xenon's with just TYC housings. You must use OEM housings. What I plan on doing is using the TYC housings as the ones I actually use, and butchering some OEM headlights to get the shroud and bezel pieces from it. The OEM shroud transplants just fine into the TYC housing, as does the bezel that's mounted to the lens. So you get to keep the 500 logo as well. Here's a few pictures on the transplant.

OEM shroud mounted inside TYC housing.

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3703/12641776494_bb52296380_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12641776494/)
P1011532 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12641776494/) by gnrfan228 (http://www.flickr.com/people/29717190@N06/), on Flickr

OEM bezel removed from the lens. You need to remove 3 Torx 10 screws and then pull it out.

https://s1.yimg.com/sj/2818/12641425723_144b201405_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12641425723/)
P1011533 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12641425723/) by gnrfan228 (http://www.flickr.com/people/29717190@N06/), on Flickr

TYC bezel inside the lens

https://s3.yimg.com/so/7385/12641297725_054f810cdc_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12641297725/)
P1011534 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12641297725/) by gnrfan228 (http://www.flickr.com/people/29717190@N06/), on Flickr

Removed with 3 phillips screws.

https://v4s.yimg.com/sm/5526/12641775254_93651cb08e_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12641775254/)
P1011536 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12641775254/) by gnrfan228 (http://www.flickr.com/people/29717190@N06/), on Flickr

OEM bezel inside the TYC lens. Looks like it matches up perfectly. Haven't mounted it yet because I need to reheat the lens to remove the little bits of leftover TYC permaseal.

https://ycpi-farm6.staticflickr.com/5498/12641774854_a30e86f844_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12641774854/)
P1011537 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12641774854/) by gnrfan228 (http://www.flickr.com/people/29717190@N06/), on Flickr

So let's go back over the options.

Regardless, you need a set of OEM lights. I suggest buying used ones so that you don't risk ruining your only pair of headlights. Then you have to deal with permaseal. The Fiat permaseal is the worst I've come across. It's definitely doable, but if you have to make sure you have patience. I would set aside at least 4 hours per headlight, if not more.

You can also choose to go with OEM headlights + TYC headlights like I am doing. The TYC housings are a form of permaseal, but it's so incredibly easy to deal with. Not much harder than butyl at all. So you'll take those apart with care because those are the ones you'll be using. Then with the OEM headlights, feel free to tear into them as long as you don't damage at least the shroud. The bezel inside the lens is optional, just depends on if you want the 500 logo. But considering you've already bought the headlights, might as well use it. What I did was multiple heat cycles and just tore off the top sealing channel. So it ruins the housing, but the bezel and shroud are usable.

Kurumi
02-19-2014, 05:12 PM
Sorry about not including the rear lens cap. If you want it, I can send you an extra one if I can find it. Ask for your findings, I'm glad to see you went out of the way to find out that the aftermarket ones won't work for the retrofit as well as the OEM ones. A shame that Fiat is making it hard for anyone wanting to attempt this. They should have offered HIDs to begin with.

shadowshaggy
02-19-2014, 05:19 PM
They do, just not here.....the Tributero (spelled wrong?) editions both have Bi-Xenon HID's. The sticker in the door jamb even says "may contain HID's" or something to that effect.

ophidia31
02-19-2014, 06:37 PM
Hmmm, retrofitting these with better projectors seems like a business oppurtunity to me. lol

nyc eng
02-19-2014, 07:23 PM
So disappointing, I ordered a set of stock headlights so I guess I get to deal with 8hrs of permaseal fun.

Any recommendation on taking them apart? How long did you put the stock headlight in the oven and at what temperature?

shadowshaggy
02-19-2014, 07:24 PM
So disappointing, I ordered a set of stock headlights. Any recommendation on taking them apart?

blow torch or :uzi:

SCIENCE
02-19-2014, 10:59 PM
So disappointing, I ordered a set of stock headlights so I guess I get to deal with 8hrs of permaseal fun.

Any recommendation on taking them apart? How long did you put the stock headlight in the oven and at what temperature?

285F for 15-20 minutes at a time. You'll only be able to have a few minutes to work on the permaseal before it hardens again. So most of the time will be spent with the headlight in the oven. Just be extremely patient. It only takes losing your cool once to ruin the headlight. At the temperature it takes to soften up the permaseal, the plastic itself that the housing is made of becomes incredibly soft as well. If you're using a screwdriver to get into the channel to clear out the permaseal as I did, you have to be careful. One slip when the plastic is that soft and you can cut a hole right through it. Which granted is not the end of the world. I've done it before on other headlights and just used a little bit of jb weld on the cut. But if you puncture it in the wrong spot you can make it very hard to get a good seal once you're done and you end up with condensation. Another hard part is that even when you get the headlight separated, you're still going to have to keep your oven going and reheating the pieces in 5 minute intervals. This is so you can soften the remaining permaseal and remove it from the lens piece and from the sealing channel on the main assembly. If you leave that permaseal on, you're going to make it really hard to get a good seal. You'll have to scrape it all out before you can use your regular butyl (http://www.theretrofitsource.com/accessories/oci-butyl-rubber-glue.html#.UwVvGvldWo8) or koito butyl (http://www.theretrofitsource.com/accessories/koito-butyl-rubber-glue.html#.UwVvHvldWo8), whichever you go with. You could try what I did which is to rip off the top channel of the assembly and pry underneath the lens to loosen the bit of permaseal there, and it's easy from there. But whether you could get a seal after that is unknown. I doubt it with regular butyl, but the koito butyl stands a chance. That and it might look a bit ugly. I can't tell if you can see the top channel of where the headlight meets the lens when they're mounted on the car. Of course if it's hidden by the bodywork, then ugliness isn't an issue. I'll make another post in a bit detailing what I'm talking about here.

Though it's far from a small chunk of money, if you didn't want to have the worry and pain in the ass of permaseal, get the TYC projectors too. Then you can take out all your frustration on the OEM lights. :devilish:

As for the business opportunity, I'm not so sure. There are professional retrofitters out there that will do this no problem. But I wouldn't do it myself, at least not with the OEM lights. I'd be happy to make batches of ones like I'm doing, but that would be hugely expensive for the buyer and wouldn't be worth my time unless there were 5+ people paying at least a percentage upfront. And I don't think there's enough of a market for that.

NGEN
02-19-2014, 11:14 PM
Great job Science. Very well documented. I applaud you for taking the time to figure it out and kept your cool while doing it. As you have pointed out (which I have been saying for awhile), these lights are the most difficult ones to open. It takes a lot of time and effort to open these right without causing an issue. Your removal looks pretty clean. Keep up the good work.

SCIENCE
02-19-2014, 11:30 PM
Here's some stuff to explain and add more detail to my previous post.

OEM housing with permaseal that I mutilated on the left, TYC housing on the right. The TYC also uses permaseal as I stated, but it's So much easier that I am reluctant to even call it permaseal.

https://v4s.yimg.com/sm/5501/12647817324_873d759f4d_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12647817324/)
P1011538 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12647817324/) by gnrfan228 (http://www.flickr.com/people/29717190@N06/), on Flickr

Here's the channel that I'm referring to. This is the TYC housing. You can see a strip of the permaseal on the right side. There are two lips that you can see. An inside and outside edge to the channel. This C/U shape channel design helps hold the lens to the housing as well as create a seal in conjunction with the sealant used.

https://ycpi-farm4.staticflickr.com/3749/12647454243_0a5888e7e4_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12647454243/)
P1011541 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12647454243/) by gnrfan228 (http://www.flickr.com/people/29717190@N06/), on Flickr

https://ycpi-farm6.staticflickr.com/5532/12647331905_0193b32281_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12647331905/)
P1011542 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12647331905/) by gnrfan228 (http://www.flickr.com/people/29717190@N06/), on Flickr

Here's a shot of the TYC headlight pointing out the outside channel, which is what I removed on the OEM housing. You can either use a dremel to do this, or heat it up at 285-300F and rip it out, which is what I did since I had forgotten my dremel. ;)

https://v4s.yimg.com/sk/3753/12647453893_7d779ca29f_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12647453893/)
P1011545 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12647453893/) by gnrfan228 (http://www.flickr.com/people/29717190@N06/), on Flickr

Here's a shot of said OEM housing with the top/outside channel removed. You can see all of the remaining PITA permaseal that Fiat uses. Nasty wretched hateful stuff. :soapbox:

https://ycpi-farm8.staticflickr.com/7395/12647816004_aa1a58a1c7_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12647816004/)
P1011547 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12647816004/) by gnrfan228 (http://www.flickr.com/people/29717190@N06/), on Flickr

Backside of the OEM housing with the outside channel removed.

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5482/12647331205_39bd9f28e2_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12647331205/)
P1011548 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12647331205/) by gnrfan228 (http://www.flickr.com/people/29717190@N06/), on Flickr

So as you can see, you no longer get the benefit of the C/U channel to help seal the light. But it is still possible since you have the bottom lip. Just make sure to remove ALL of the permaseal from the lens and the bottom lip first. If you go that route, I don't recommend using regular butyl. Koito is the only one I'd use in that situation because it is much better at sealing as well as holding it together. It's sticky stuff once it sets. Again, I cannot and will not guarantee that this will work and create a good condensation-proof seal. It SHOULD work, but your mileage may vary.

SCIENCE
02-19-2014, 11:35 PM
Sorry about not including the rear lens cap. If you want it, I can send you an extra one if I can find it. Ask for your findings, I'm glad to see you went out of the way to find out that the aftermarket ones won't work for the retrofit as well as the OEM ones. A shame that Fiat is making it hard for anyone wanting to attempt this. They should have offered HIDs to begin with.

Thanks! Actually that would be very helpful, I'll PM you.


Great job Science. Very well documented. I applaud you for taking the time to figure it out and kept your cool while doing it. As you have pointed out (which I have been saying for awhile), these lights are the most difficult ones to open. It takes a lot of time and effort to open these right without causing an issue. Your removal looks pretty clean. Keep up the good work.

Thank you! Glad I could be of help. Yeah, if I do end up doing this for a few people, I absolutely will not go the route of just using OEM lights. I hate permaseal that much. If you want me to do it for you, it's the expensive OEM + TYC hybrid way or the hell no way. ;)

I don't mean to make it sound like it's impossible, because it definitely isn't. I already knew I was buying TYC headlights so that I could be the guinea pig for everyone, so I didn't have a qualm with ruining the spare OEM lights I had. Had I not planned on getting the TYC lights, I would've been more careful though. I stress that it's a pain so much because I really don't want to see anyone ruin their lights by attempting something they aren't prepared for. And I can never stress enough to just leave your original lights the hell alone. Buy spares. If you can't afford to, just wait a month until you can. There's nothing worse than ruining your only pair of lights. Always keep the originals in non-modded condition.

nyc eng
02-20-2014, 01:42 PM
Doesn't sound like this is going to be as easy as the TT headlights I did 12 years ago. So, no go on the heatgun / stove combo? Are there any solvents that dissolve the goop they use?

I got a kick out of reading permaseal posts by TheRetrofitSource employees last night. They curse it, and in some cases swear to never do certain headlights again. The nice thing is that they offer a lot of support and strategies for disassembling permasealed headlights.

I'm going back and forth with painting the insides. If I can ever get these headlights open, what would you recommend for the painting process?

SCIENCE
02-20-2014, 02:10 PM
Doesn't sound like this is going to be as easy as the TT headlights I did 12 years ago. So, no go on the heatgun / stove combo? Are there any solvents that dissolve the goop they use?

I got a kick out of reading permaseal posts by TheRetrofitSource employees last night. They curse it, and in some cases swear to never do certain headlights again. The nice thing is that they offer a lot of support and strategies for disassembling permasealed headlights.

It's easy if you go with the OEM + TYC method, just expensive.

If you just want to use the OEM lights, then yes. The furthest thing from easy and absolutely not fun at all. The heatgun will work if you're just trying to rip off that top channel like I did and make a seal at the bottom channel. But if you want everything intact, then the oven is your only choice. Yeah the TRS guys are very open and upfront, it's very nice. And like I've said, Fiat's permaseal is the worst I've ever dealt with. I think some VW and BMW stuff is worse from what I've heard, but when you get to this level of difficulty, something being harder to work with doesn't mean much. It already makes you want to destroy the damn thing and never touch it again. angryfire

SCIENCE
02-24-2014, 08:30 PM
Quick walkthrough of what to do with the WolstenTech solenoid controllers/pigtails (http://www.wolstentech.com/products/bixenon/bixenon.php) I received today.

Two controllers and two pigtails. I flipped one of the controllers so that you can see each side. One side has a positive and negative as labelled. This is what you'll connect our stock solenoid wiring to. The other side has 3 slots, labelled black, red, and green corresponding to the pigtails.

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5525/12758643515_21eb5e57e6_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12758643515/)
P1011575 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12758643515/) by gnrfan228 (http://www.flickr.com/people/29717190@N06/), on Flickr

Here is the stock headlight harness taken out of the headlight housing. Very easy to remove once you have the headlight taken apart. Can easily be reinstalled. Twist and pull. I took it out to make this tutorial easier. Purple star is the part that sticks out of the headlight connects to the car's wiring harness. Red star is what connects to the bulb in stock form, but for a retrofit will connect to the HID wiring harness. Blue star is the stock solenoid connector. You don't have to take the pins out of the connector like I did here.

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3712/12758643045_5082aa69f6_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12758643045/)
P1011578 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12758643045/) by gnrfan228 (http://www.flickr.com/people/29717190@N06/), on Flickr

Cut the wires an inch or two from the solenoid connector, then using a wire stripper, strip 1/4" off of the ends.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7422/12759084504_dff960fa10_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12759084504/)
P1011579 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12759084504/) by gnrfan228 (http://www.flickr.com/people/29717190@N06/), on Flickr

Place the ends into the corresponding slots and using a small flathead screwdriver, hand tighten the screws down to clamp the wires in.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7309/12758642105_c90eabd120_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12758642105/)
P1011580 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12758642105/) by gnrfan228 (http://www.flickr.com/people/29717190@N06/), on Flickr

Same for the other side, and voila! Plug into your new E46 bi-xenon projector.

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3694/12759083624_003b6dc93a_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12759083624/)
P1011581 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12759083624/) by gnrfan228 (http://www.flickr.com/people/29717190@N06/), on Flickr

SCIENCE
02-28-2014, 07:09 PM
I've done it! 2 3/4 hours later, a permasealed OEM headlight removed with no damage. Though that isn't including the time you'll need to invest in scraping all of the remaining permaseal off of the lens and the lens channel in the housing.

https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2832/12842650045_67777d7baf_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12842650045/)
P1011582 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12842650045/) by gnrfan228 (http://www.flickr.com/people/29717190@N06/), on Flickr

I still need a passenger side OEM headlight, so my only progress coming up is just going to be going ahead and mounting the ballasts and setting up the wiring in preparation for the retrofit being finished.

SCIENCE
03-07-2014, 01:31 AM
Small update for an output shot.

E46 projector with ZKW-R lenses. Cut off the RV shield and backed out the adjustment screw all the way so that the shield rests against the projector, instead of being pushed away from it.

50w Morimoto 5five ballast
OEM Koito bulbs

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3638/12983767614_db98384c86_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12983767614/)
WP_20140306_002 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12983767614/) by gnrfan228 (http://www.flickr.com/people/29717190@N06/), on Flickr

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7324/12983490633_ea6ba35cae_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12983490633/)
WP_20140306_001 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12983490633/) by gnrfan228 (http://www.flickr.com/people/29717190@N06/), on Flickr

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2692/12983323455_5a71f961cd_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12983323455/)
WP_20140306_003 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12983323455/) by gnrfan228 (http://www.flickr.com/people/29717190@N06/), on Flickr

SCIENCE
03-07-2014, 03:00 AM
Managed to get a little more color out by relocating the lens spacers. I initially placed them towards the front of the projector, between the lens and the front of the holder. In this picture, they're behind the lens, towards the bowl of the projector. Held in by the lens holder tabs.

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3750/12984331845_fae67336a5_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12984331845/)
WP_20140307_001 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/12984331845/) by gnrfan228 (http://www.flickr.com/people/29717190@N06/), on Flickr

theporschephile
03-07-2014, 07:51 AM
looks good. seems like a big jump between the two projectors, but i assume this isn't on a bumper assembly or anything, so can't tell anything about it until it's in the car, right?

also, now you are literally blinding me with science, lol

SCIENCE
03-07-2014, 02:59 PM
looks good. seems like a big jump between the two projectors, but i assume this isn't on a bumper assembly or anything, so can't tell anything about it until it's in the car, right?

also, now you are literally blinding me with science, lol

Thanks! And yep, in those pictures I'm testing the projectors outside of the headlight assembly. It gives you a good idea, but you can't tell for sure how the cutoff will look until you get it mounted inside the housing and pointed at a flat wall ~25+ feet away.

theporschephile
03-07-2014, 08:31 PM
too bad you're gonna have to take it all back apart again now that TRS is offering GT-R projectors ;)

SCIENCE
03-07-2014, 08:59 PM
too bad you're gonna have to take it all back apart again now that TRS is offering GT-R projectors ;)

If I'm not mistaken, it's just a clear lens upgrade for the projectors in the GT-R. Like how the ZKW-R lens is for the E46 projectors that I'm using. And there are certainly better projectors out there than the E46. All the modding in the world won't make it the best projector. But it's absolutely the easiest to retrofit in our headlights. You just can't beat having something bolt in with no cutting required!

SCIENCE
03-13-2014, 11:57 PM
Update for the project, I will have my passenger side headlight monday. So I should have this finished next week. In the meantime, here's a video comparing the halogen stock projector vs my setup. Should blow away the naysayers and PnP people. Absolutely proves everything that has been said! The HID E46 has a much nicer beam pattern as well as being much wider than the halogen version.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5ttAOwR0ds

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5ttAOwR0ds

ophidia31
03-14-2014, 12:23 AM
Want. lol

SCIENCE
03-14-2014, 04:29 AM
Thanks for that Tweak, I appreciate it!

Here is a bit of a diagram of how some of the wiring goes. Or at least, how I think it will go. Fairly certain, but please don't copy me unless you feel comfortable with it, or wait until I confirm it please. You've been warned!

Below is a closeup of the headlight wiring harness.

Blue star are the wires coming from the harness.

Those go straight to the solenoid power converter, marked by the red star.

Spliced in with the solenoid wires coming from the wiring harness and leading to the solenoid power converter is a female 9006 connector marked by the purple star. This will be used to connect to the fog light correctional splitter. Ignore this if you aren't using one.

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2335/13142709885_afa572c34c_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/13142709885/)
P1011630 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/13142709885/) by gnrfan228 (http://www.flickr.com/people/29717190@N06/), on Flickr


Below you can see a shot of the full headlight. This should give you a good idea of what's going on.

Blue stars are the tap splices that indicate the connection to the high beam solenoid trigger. This leads to the connector with the blue star. This is the fog light correctional splitter.

The blue star connector leads to another splitter. The red connector on it connects to the HID fog light wiring harness. Purple connector connects to the stock fog light wiring harness. Pink should go unused. I'll either snip and heatshrink the ends or just seal the connector with silicone.

Orange star is one thing you will all have to do. This is the stock connector from the wiring harness that connects to the halogen bulb. This will be used to connect to the HID wiring harness to trigger the harness and turn your lights on.

Pretty crowded inside this headlight housing!

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3779/13143003054_a6cc58ce97_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/13143003054/)
P1011628 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/13143003054/) by gnrfan228 (http://www.flickr.com/people/29717190@N06/), on Flickr

Please make note that the above steps are only for the drivers side headlight. The passenger side is much easier. You actually shouldn't need the bulb connector at all. I've removed the pin and wire for it here. All you should need for the passenger side is the solenoid connector.

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3829/13142710395_8666ea15ae_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/13142710395/)
P1011629 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29717190@N06/13142710395/) by gnrfan228 (http://www.flickr.com/people/29717190@N06/), on Flickr

nyc eng
03-14-2014, 05:53 PM
So happy you posted that, I was planning on installing the headlights tomorrow but I haven't even figured out the electrical yet..

Here is the harness TRS recommended... From my understanding..

Green Star [1] is for the power supply - battery terminal
Orange Stars [2] are for powering the ballasts?
Purple Star [1] are for connecting to the stock wiring system
Blue Stars [3] are grounds, to metal frame


https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7237/13154663923_5c3c55d2a8_b.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/photos/89564921@N07/13154663923/)
DSC01010 - Marked (https://www.flickr.com/photos/89564921@N07/13154663923/) by NYC-GNE (https://www.flickr.com/people/89564921@N07/), on Flickr

SCIENCE
03-14-2014, 06:53 PM
So happy you posted that, I was planning on installing the headlights tomorrow but I haven't even figured out the electrical yet..

Here is the harness TRS recommended... From my understanding..

Green Star [1] is for the power supply - battery terminal
Orange Stars [2] are for powering the ballasts?
Purple Star [1] are for connecting to the stock wiring system
Blue Stars [3] are grounds, to metal frame


https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7237/13154663923_5c3c55d2a8_b.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/photos/89564921@N07/13154663923/)
DSC01010 - Marked (https://www.flickr.com/photos/89564921@N07/13154663923/) by NYC-GNE (https://www.flickr.com/people/89564921@N07/), on Flickr

Yep, that's it exactly!

Looks like you're going to beat me after all :(

nyc eng
03-14-2014, 08:41 PM
Yep, that's it exactly!

Looks like you're going to beat me after all :(

Truth is, this only happened because of your help. I need to send you beer of the month membership.

SCIENCE
03-15-2014, 08:01 PM
Truth is, this only happened because of your help. I need to send you beer of the month membership.

Now that sounds good!

So I have decided that if I can fit them in, I will be switching to matsu****a ballasts. I was also missing the butyl from my TRS order, so I have to wait on that as well. Probably another two weeks before I get everything finished. So in the mean time I will be switching my attention to my new projector fog light retrofit V2. Still waiting waiting on a part for another lighting project of mine.

waiting waiting waiting waiting, so boring :sorrow:

nyc eng
03-17-2014, 12:05 AM
Now that sounds good!

So I have decided that if I can fit them in, I will be switching to matsu****a ballasts. I was also missing the butyl from my TRS order, so I have to wait on that as well. Probably another two weeks before I get everything finished. So in the mean time I will be switching my attention to my new projector fog light retrofit V2. Still waiting waiting on a part for another lighting project of mine.

waiting waiting waiting waiting, so boring :sorrow:

The First off, a HUGE thank you to our lighting guru - SCIENCE if it wasn't for his help I'm not sure this would have ever got done.

It looks like I still have some work left but I can finally see at night so I am extremely happy.

Are you thinking about the Gen 3/4 and mounting them on the bottom or back?

I have a few things that I can tell need to be resolved:
- The right bulb that I got with the projectors is definitely off, it's a lot more yellow than the left.. So, I'm going to replace the bulbs with the Osram CBIs.
- The lights need to be aimed, it looks like the right projector is aiming for the sky.

Looks like a lot of [hot spots?] on the right side, could that be because of the bulb being bad? This bulb has a broken electrode. I thought I saw a difference when I tested the projectors in my living room, but since I was testing one at a time it was a little hard to tell..

Here are some iPhone 5 photos. I will try to grab some pictures with my DSLR when I re-aim them.

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3769/13209646283_c58b1efec9_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/89564921@N07/13209646283/)
photo 1 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/89564921@N07/13209646283/) by NYC-GNE (http://www.flickr.com/people/89564921@N07/), on Flickr

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3779/13209644543_a76ea71b5f_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/89564921@N07/13209644543/)
photo 2 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/89564921@N07/13209644543/) by NYC-GNE (http://www.flickr.com/people/89564921@N07/), on Flickr

SCIENCE
03-18-2014, 07:52 PM
Beautiful! When are you expecting those CBI's? Did you get the aiming fixed?

nyc eng
03-18-2014, 08:21 PM
Beautiful! When are you expecting those CBI's? Did you get the aiming fixed?

I should have the CBIs on Friday which I'm really excited about. Those bulbs are pretty impressive.

Haven't aimed them yet might have time tomorrow.

PerformanceDoneRight
03-21-2014, 09:02 PM
I'm excited to get started on this project myself, soon. I had a lot of fun doing a retrofit in my Miata and this looks like it will be even less of a headache!

Time to start ordering parts!

SCIENCE
03-21-2014, 09:12 PM
I'm excited to get started on this project myself, soon. I had a lot of fun doing a retrofit in my Miata and this looks like it will be even less of a headache!

Time to start ordering parts!

Sounds great! Hope you enjoy it. :)



Just wanted to put this out there. I have some spare parts that I'd like to utilize to recuperate some of the money I've spent being the vanguard for this project. I plan on offering a one-off set of headlights built by me to whoever would be interested. Only one pair, I will never do another set, so if you're interested, please get in touch with me and we can go over prices. I will say that it won't be cheap. I'll be doing it the right way, but some of the part choices will be up to your choosing. Bulbs and ballasts are yours to choose from. Just for a ballpark, around $700-800 total. All you would have to do is install them on your car, which I would provide instructions for.

PerformanceDoneRight
03-21-2014, 09:15 PM
I just want to pay someone else to sit around with a heat gun for an hour to open up the headlights. I have zero patience when it comes to that. I broke two sets of housings for the Miata before I get them apart cleanly.

nyc eng
03-21-2014, 09:31 PM
I just want to pay someone else to sit around with a heat gun for an hour to open up the headlights. I have zero patience when it comes to that. I broke two sets of housings for the Miata before I get them apart cleanly.

Wise choice, because I can assure you it will take far more than an hour to open just one. It took me about 4-5 hours to open and clean them both.

SCIENCE
03-21-2014, 09:37 PM
I just want to pay someone else to sit around with a heat gun for an hour to open up the headlights. I have zero patience when it comes to that. I broke two sets of housings for the Miata before I get them apart cleanly.

I would not recommend doing it with a heatgun. It's even more likely you'll mess up the headlight doing that vs in the oven.


Wise choice, because I can assure you it will take far more than an hour to open just one. It took me about 4-5 hours to open and clean them both.

Precisely why it's so expensive. Almost paradoxical. Incredibly labor and time intensive to get them open, but then once they're open it's the easiest retrofit I've ever done.

theporschephile
03-21-2014, 10:11 PM
If not already spoken for, I'll take the set you're doing

SCIENCE
03-21-2014, 10:53 PM
If not already spoken for, I'll take the set you're doing

Nope, you're the first person to reply! I'll PM you here in a bit with more details and go over options with you. :)

ophidia31
08-21-2015, 11:58 PM
Bringing this back form the dead. Was looking around on theretrofitsource website and saw that they have a replacement kit for factory e46 projectors using adapter brackets and morimoto evox-r bi-xenon projectors. Looks like this is the best/easiest option for even better output than the factory e46 projectors. I dont see this kit going anywhere so Ill probably do this next year to my lights. Just giving a headsup to those who might want to take the dive again with their lights.

nyc eng
12-05-2015, 03:10 AM
Bringing this back form the dead. Was looking around on theretrofitsource website and saw that they have a replacement kit for factory e46 projectors using adapter brackets and morimoto evox-r bi-xenon projectors. Looks like this is the best/easiest option for even better output than the factory e46 projectors. I dont see this kit going anywhere so Ill probably do this next year to my lights. Just giving a headsup to those who might want to take the dive again with their lights.

I don't necessarily think the evox-r are better. One thing, the E46 fit in the Fiat headlights perfectly with no issues. Since no one has tried the EVOX-R's in our headlights, there is no telling if you end up with projectors that don't fit..

I will say this, the E46 projectors are incredible. I need to post up some good shots with the CBI bulbs. I ended up ordering HID bulbs, ballasts and the relay wiring from TRS for the fog lights because the color differential between my CBI's and factory fogs was driving me nuts.