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philamthebest
01-28-2014, 03:38 PM
Hi guys. I am having a problem with my 2013 Abarth (just over 11k miles). When I try to start the car, every time without fail it doesn't turn over. I try 3-4 times and then it turns over. I took it to the dealership and of course they couldn't reproduce the issue. As soon as I get home it happens again. Luckily I have been making video recordings each time which I will take to the dealership when I go back.

As the dealership cannot shed any light on the situation, I was hoping someone on here might be able to. As I mentioned, it cranks and sounds like it's trying to turn over, but it doesn't. Not a dead battery because it's trying to fire each time, and when it does turn on the car is fine for the most part. It usually turns over on the fourth try, but even when it does finally turn on, it turns over slowly. I thought it could be the extreme cold, but when we had the "Polar Vortex" in Chicago, it was outside and turned over right away. It is garage kept and warm. When the car does finally fire and turn over, if I disengage the engine and turn the car off, the car responds right away.

The dealership said they looked at the spark plugs but said they were fine. I had an oil change when I first took the car into the dealership (250 miles ago) I'm not sure of what the next thing to test is. I read online and on a few forums about the rods becoming loose in the motor, but I don't want to jump to conclusions.

Thanks for any help guys.

shagghie
01-28-2014, 03:42 PM
Make sure as the operator you aren't doing what I was for a long time... pushing in the clutch before turning it over. Try putting it into neutral, don't touch ANY pedals, and turning it over. I figured out that out of old habits with classic cars I was pushing in the clutch before turning it over. That prevents our cars from starting...
Hopefully it is this simple like it was for me!

Fiat500USA
01-28-2014, 04:29 PM
Is the trouble with the car cranking or the engine not starting? When you say "it doesn't turn over", that means to most people that the starter is not cranking the engine. In your case it sounds like the engine is cranking but not starting.

When the engine is cranking, how long do you hold the key? I've sometimes found myself releasing the key too soon out of force of habit. My car usually starts immediately so I let go of the key after the usual amount of time cranking. Sometimes it may take a little more cranking depending on circumstances. If it happens again, see how long you need to crank the car before it starts and tell the mechanic. It may help them diagnose if there is something wrong.

Also, I can start my car in gear with just the clutch pedal down.

Bikebits
01-28-2014, 05:18 PM
Make sure as the operator you aren't doing what I was for a long time... pushing in the clutch before turning it over. Try putting it into neutral, don't touch ANY pedals, and turning it over. I figured out that out of old habits with classic cars I was pushing in the clutch before turning it over. That prevents our cars from starting...
Hopefully it is this simple like it was for me!

I always park in gear, no e-brake, with the gear engaged for the direction I am going to pull away. If I'll be backing up, it's in reverse, if pulling forward, it's in first. That means every time I start it's full pressure on the brake and clutch pedals. Then release the clutch, add gas and I'm under way. There's never been an issue starting with the clutch depressed.

shadowshaggy
01-28-2014, 05:53 PM
Make sure as the operator you aren't doing what I was for a long time... pushing in the clutch before turning it over. Try putting it into neutral, don't touch ANY pedals, and turning it over. I figured out that out of old habits with classic cars I was pushing in the clutch before turning it over. That prevents our cars from starting...
Hopefully it is this simple like it was for me!

You drinkin' and forum'ing again shadowlessme? You have to have the clutch pedal depressed in order to start any manual transmission car in the last 20 years, neutral safety switch. If you hit the key, with the car in neutral or not, without the clutch pedal depressed then it won't do crap.

Press the clutch pedal to the floor, hit the key, car starts. If not, does it turn over - i.e. starter makes noise like it's trying to start or it makes another funny noise?
If it turns over, does it just take a while to start?

Need a little more info to help you out. Shadowlessme, stop your drinkn' and forum'ing beerchug

BTW, the car could care less if it's in gear or not, so long as the clutch pedal is on the floor.

shagghie
01-28-2014, 06:36 PM
SOrry fellas, I meant GAS PEDAL, not clutch pedal. If you prime the gas pedal a little while you are turning it over, the car won't start. I had that left-over habbit from cars of yore... If i was drinking I would have got that right...but working at a day job... no chance.

shadowshaggy
01-28-2014, 06:43 PM
sillylol you can't prime an EFI system.....it does that itself....you say strange things sometime shadowlessme.

You have something off with your car if you touch the gas pedal and the car won't start, I'll try that when I get mine back but I've never seen one do that.

We need comic relief around here, you do a pretty good job of it tho sillylol

shagghie
01-28-2014, 07:14 PM
that's the whole point,... I'm old. I'm used to 'priming' the throttle just prior to turning over the engine to get some gas in the carbs so you know, there's combustion.
Over course you can't prime a DBW throttle, which is why i used the term. I think it's a safety feature though on modern cars to prevent turn over if foot is on the gas. try it!

sczuylevch13
01-28-2014, 07:17 PM
one thing i always like to do to actually "prime" the efi system witch i have done since ive had vehicles without carbs is when you turn the ignition on before you acctually crank the engine wait 2 seconds, (i know the buzzer is annoying) then crank the engine! ive had no trouble starting in sub zero temps or with it warm. the engine fires right up on the second revolution every time the wait time allows the fuel pump to run and make certain the fuel rail is primed!

shadowshaggy
01-28-2014, 07:21 PM
Well, mostly correct. If you have low fuel, or a fuel pressure problem; i.e. clogged filter, etc; then yes wait a second since it's an electronic fuel pump. Pumping the gas pedal does precisely nothing.

If it registers WOT, then no it won't crank; but slight throttle and it will. Its been that way on cars for at least the last 7 years or so. Many EFI cars won't start if TPS shows WOT, it makes perfect sense.

shadowlessme, you make sentences out of words....not sure exactly that it makes sense to the rest of us all the time, but you do make complete sentences at least biggrinparty

SeaDawg
01-28-2014, 09:22 PM
Make sure as the operator you aren't doing what I was for a long time... pushing in the clutch before turning it over. Try putting it into neutral, don't touch ANY pedals, and turning it over. I figured out that out of old habits with classic cars I was pushing in the clutch before turning it over. That prevents our cars from starting...
Hopefully it is this simple like it was for me!

Text deleted...used to be able to delete messages after saving if still able to edit....this is silly...

AutozamAbarth
01-29-2014, 01:19 AM
Hi,
I just finished a little class with our fiat dealership here for new abarth owners. My model will not start unless foot is on the brake and clutch is pushed down, dealer says its a safety feature. I am in Buffalo NY, and it's been about 1 degree here for the last week and no probs at all, and I don't have a garage. Also there are a lot of great features on the car that can be challenging to master without a little help from the dealer, blue tooth pairing and the like. If this dealer isn't being helpful try finding a local foreign car garage or try having corporate find you another dealer that will help you and give you a class. Hope this helps

undfeatable
01-29-2014, 01:30 AM
Since we share the same engine, maybe our solution will work. Basically you have to let the engine prime. Turn the key to the run position (if y'all have push button click it twice with no clutch). Wait for the engine to prime (you should be able to hear it, we have a security light that last about as long as it goes off, but I'm not sure about you. Once the sound goes off, it should crank right away.

BigDaddySRT
01-29-2014, 08:01 AM
VW fixed this "non start issue" with their Turbo Cars back in 2012... when you open the drivers door on a 2012 GTi, the Fuel Pump Relay Ignites and Primes the Fuel System.


Don't just hop in and expect the ABARTH to just fire up... as discussed 20 times before, you need to Turn the Ignition to ON, allow the Fuel System to Prime for a second or two, and then turn the Key to Full ON to hit the Starter.

Tweak
01-29-2014, 12:18 PM
Hi,
I just finished a little class with our fiat dealership here for new abarth owners. My model will not start unless foot is on the brake and clutch is pushed down, dealer says its a safety feature. I am in Buffalo NY, and it's been about 1 degree here for the last week and no probs at all, and I don't have a garage. Also there are a lot of great features on the car that can be challenging to master without a little help from the dealer, blue tooth pairing and the like. If this dealer isn't being helpful try finding a local foreign car garage or try having corporate find you another dealer that will help you and give you a class. Hope this helps

Welcome to the forum.

I don't always press the brake and start without issue.

jguerdat
01-30-2014, 08:45 AM
Same here although I'm in a 2012 - perhaps there's a difference in the 2013s (I doubt it)? I think the dealer is dumbing down the instruction to prevent the Audi "sudden acceleration" issue.

Autozam - I'm in Rochester. If you want, PM me and I can send you contact info for the local Fiat America Club chapter (just had a winter get-together) as well as for local autocross.

Sipde
01-30-2014, 11:17 AM
My L does the same thing. I found that if I get in and just turn the key to the on position, wait for the buzzer to stop and them turn the key it starts right up every time, even when it was -20 here last week.

skyx39
01-30-2014, 12:16 PM
sillylol you can't prime an EFI system.....it does that itself....you say strange things sometime shadowlessme.

You have something off with your car if you touch the gas pedal and the car won't start, I'll try that when I get mine back but I've never seen one do that.

We need comic relief around here, you do a pretty good job of it tho sillylol

Modern EFI systems won't the engine to start if the gas pedal is pressed to the floor. The engine will turn but you won't get spark. It's the easy way to prime a turbo after performing a turbo swap BTW.

Fiat500USA
01-30-2014, 01:00 PM
If you would need to step on the brake to start the car that would be in the manual, so I don't think that's an actual requirement.

My car sits for days and has no problem starting. Plus its been in the single digits here. Today it was 9 degrees out and I jumped in, depressed the clutch and as soon as I inserted the key I turned it to start. No problem.

If you do have a problem starting I would do what the others have suggested. First, pause a second or two at the on position to give the fuel pump a chance to pump up. It's a good idea to do that on any car and you can do it while you put your belt on. Second, make sure you are holding the key to the crank position long enough to give the engine time to start. The manual says you may have to hold the key for up to 10 seconds - which is long time. If you have to consistently have to do that, you may want to contact your dealership because that should be a rare occurrence on a car that is driven regularly. More commonly, I've seen folks crank a car for only a second or two at a time and sometimes that doesn't cut it. You may find that the engine needs just an extra second or so to catch before releasing the key.

For example, my car normally takes 2 seconds to start, so I automatically release the key after that period. Sometimes I will release the key before the engine starts. Recently I have forced myself to hold the key until the engine starts. What I have found is my engine will occasionally take maybe 3 seconds to start. I was releasing the key too soon out of force of habit.

Take a look at these suggestions and let us know if they make a difference. Good luck!

philamthebest
01-30-2014, 01:47 PM
Hi guys, thank you for all your comments. Let me try and address some of the replies.

I would agree with checking that the clutch is depressed all the way, and I do, however, i'm not doing anything differently from what I was before, so not sure what changed. I haven't yet tried putting my foot on the brake at the same time, however, again, I never needed to do this before and surely that can't be a requirement for starting the car? The car starts randomly, without the foot on the brake. The clutch pedal is always on the floor when starting the car.

I have been priming the gas pedal and I have noticed this doesn't help.

When i say cranking I mean that the engine is cranking and the car is not starting. I have tried holding the key longer, but I hold it for a fair while and when it does finally start it is a weak start. It barely turns over, then I give it some gas and it will act normal. The starter makes the normal noise before the car fully engages, but that noise just carries on until the car finally starts when it does.

I hope this helps with the understanding?

Thanks everyone for all the replies :)

Robert Nixon
01-30-2014, 01:56 PM
for what it's worth, here is the 2012 Abarth manual on starting the car:
Manual Transmission
Apply the parking brake, place the shift lever in NEUTRAL,
and press the clutch pedal before starting the
vehicle. This vehicle is equipped with a clutch interlocking
ignition system. It will not start unless the clutch
pedal is pressed to the floor.
Normal Starting
NOTE: Normal starting of either a cold or a warm
engine is obtained without pumping or pressing the
accelerator pedal.
Turn the ignition switch to theAVV (START) position and
release it when the engine starts. If the engine fails to start
within 10 seconds, turn the ignition switch to the STOP
(OFF/LOCK) position, wait 10 to 15 seconds, then repeat
the Normal Starting procedure.

stratofortress
01-31-2014, 06:23 AM
Hi guys, thank you for all your comments. Let me try and address some of the replies.

I would agree with checking that the clutch is depressed all the way, and I do, however, i'm not doing anything differently from what I was before, so not sure what changed. I haven't yet tried putting my foot on the brake at the same time, however, again, I never needed to do this before and surely that can't be a requirement for starting the car? The car starts randomly, without the foot on the brake. The clutch pedal is always on the floor when starting the car.

I have been priming the gas pedal and I have noticed this doesn't help.

When i say cranking I mean that the engine is cranking and the car is not starting. I have tried holding the key longer, but I hold it for a fair while and when it does finally start it is a weak start. It barely turns over, then I give it some gas and it will act normal. The starter makes the normal noise before the car fully engages, but that noise just carries on until the car finally starts when it does.

I hope this helps with the understanding?

Thanks everyone for all the replies :)Your question has already been answered a couple of times.

Priming the fuel system doesn't do anything since this is DBW. What you need to do it set the key to the 'ON' position, wait a couple of seconds to prime the fuel pump and get pressure to the rail...then flip the key to ignition.

After I stopped trying to insta-start the car, I haven't had the car need to turn over more than 2x.

jguerdat
01-31-2014, 08:56 AM
I have been priming the gas pedal and I have noticed this doesn't help.

Just FYI, the whole thing about hitting the gas pedal to "prime" anything was a carburetor thing where you were using the pedal action to activate the accelerator pump to give a few shots of gas into the intake as well as to set the choke plate. Since fuel injection systems have neither, it does nothing even if not DBW (which just adds yet another layer of doing nothing).

philamthebest
03-04-2014, 02:33 PM
OK, car has been back t Fiat 4 times and still have the same issue. The dealership says they don't know whats wrong and cannot give me an answer on whats going on. It is happening daily now, whether it's -3 degrees or 50 degrees. The dealership said it may have something to do with an audio cable that runs under the seat. They removed the seats and i'm still having the problem. I don't know what to do next. Just in case you want to hear it. Here are some videos... https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ah61je3eo139fsl/s1_wUF_Tfg

Abarthone
03-05-2014, 12:05 AM
Hey
By the video you are creating the issue... Put the key on .... Wait 2 seconds and start the car .
You flood the engine cause you are too fast on the ingition key

Abarthone
03-05-2014, 12:11 AM
Hey
By the video you are creating the issue... Put the key on .... Wait 2 seconds and start the car .
You flood the engine cause you are too fast on the ingition key
My sequence is: get in put the key on ..... Put my seatbelt on an crank over.. Start with in a turn

Abarthone
03-05-2014, 12:14 AM
It is TURNING a lot

Fiat500USA
03-05-2014, 01:02 AM
OK, car has been back t Fiat 4 times and still have the same issue. The dealership says they don't know whats wrong and cannot give me an answer on whats going on. It is happening daily now, whether it's -3 degrees or 50 degrees. The dealership said it may have something to do with an audio cable that runs under the seat. They removed the seats and i'm still having the problem. I don't know what to do next. Just in case you want to hear it. Here are some videos... https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ah61je3eo139fsl/s1_wUF_Tfg


Have you tried the suggestion of pausing for a few seconds before turning the key to the start position?

Abarthone
03-05-2014, 01:14 AM
Have you tried the suggestion of pausing for a few seconds before turning the key to the start position?

10-4

jguerdat
03-05-2014, 08:37 AM
Hey
By the video you are creating the issue... Put the key on .... Wait 2 seconds and start the car .
You flood the engine cause you are too fast on the ingition key

No way you flood the engine by not waiting. The idea is to let the fuel pump create pressure which is absent when first starting. No possibility of flooding here. Also, I don't always pause and have no problems. I do note that the car itself may pause slightly before activating the starter, perhaps to allow fuel pressure to come up to a minimum amount.

BecauseRacecar
03-05-2014, 05:06 PM
I do note that the car itself may pause slightly before activating the starter,[...].
Yup, this specific action is somewhat normal. Both Fiats I've owned have done this in cold temps.
The ECU has to measure a bunch of stuff, and is probably waiting for fuel, etc...

----------

Regarding starting, I'll sometimes have the key on for a few seconds before cranking, sometimes a half second, and sometimes none at all.
Engine sometimes starts after a few seconds of cranking, sometimes nearly immediately. *knock on wood*

Abarthone
03-05-2014, 10:58 PM
No way you flood the engine by not waiting. The idea is to let the fuel pump create pressure which is absent when first starting. No possibility of flooding here. Also, I don't always pause and have no problems. I do note that the car itself may pause slightly before activating the starter, perhaps to allow fuel pressure to come up to a minimum amount.
Hi
if he crank too fast i guess the fuel pressure does not build up cause the injectors are opening and the fuel does not have a good spray pattern killing the spark cause it is too rich with a close trottle plate
Ciao

Abarthone
03-07-2014, 01:50 AM
Happen to me once ,turn 5 revolutions with out starting.... I went wot so in unflood mode and it started right away
Sometime too much is ain't enought

philamthebest
03-10-2014, 03:27 PM
Thank you for the replies, but here is my issue with my cranking it too fast. It worked fine for a while with that same cranking style. No issues. Now all of a sudden, i'm having the starting problem. I have been trying to change my "cranking" style, but I do still get the no start intermittently.

Abarthone
03-10-2014, 10:12 PM
I would try to replace the plugs