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View Full Version : Installing Drilled and Slotted Rotors from Brake Labs



krayzielilsmoki
01-14-2014, 10:14 PM
I have owned my Abarth over a year now and my front rotors got warped.
Every time I would step on the brakes my car would vibrate, I couldn't stand it! So I started shopping around for new rotors.
Anything that looked even remotely nice was extremely expensive, so I asked around and heard about Brake Labs. http://www.brakelabs.com/

I did some research and found nothing but good things about them. Looking on the website you wont find rotors for our cars, but if you give them a call you find out that they have rotors for just about any application.

Thanks to my amazing girlfriend the new rotors were ordered and shortly at my door. Thanks babe!

This is the confirmation email:
================================================== ================
Ordered: 1 Filled: 1 rbbrakeparts 2012 Fiat 500 Abrath $89.09 Ship Date:

Ordered: 2 Filled: 0 EDS.04004 [2 Front] POWERSPORT: *DRILLED & SLOTTED* Disc Brake Rotors $0.00 Ship Date:

================================================== ================

Sales Tax: $0.00
Shipping: $0.00
Discount: $0.00
Surcharge: $0.00
Grand Total: $89.09

Yes the total is $89.09 for both front rotors.
Here is what came in the mail:
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f74/krayzielilsmoki/IMG_20140107_183031_zps188b07d6.jpg (http://s45.photobucket.com/user/krayzielilsmoki/media/IMG_20140107_183031_zps188b07d6.jpg.html)

Yes I know... those are some sexy looking rotors!
The rotors look very high quality and the fitment was perfect.
Here is what they look like after the install and some driving around
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f74/krayzielilsmoki/IMG_20140112_123816_zps8012ddd6.jpg (http://s45.photobucket.com/user/krayzielilsmoki/media/IMG_20140112_123816_zps8012ddd6.jpg.html)

They are definitely a great looking upgrade, as well as a nice performance upgrade. Breaking seems as if it stops just as good as before but without the need to apply as much pressure on the brakes. I have not done any hard braking yet so I cannot report on that but from my regular driving I can say I feel an improvement in how much less I need to push down on the brake pedal to stop.

If anybody is looking to upgrade the rotors or even just replace the pads, I have created a video showing how easy it is to do.
The video is currently uploading and should be available tonight.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7vey02nTHc&feature=youtu.be

Thanks for reading.

FTY
01-14-2014, 10:29 PM
Very cool, they look great...keep us updated with long term results, rotor wear/cracking ect!

zyxelenator
01-14-2014, 11:14 PM
Thanks, bookmarked so won't forget which to buy when my pads or rotors will be done. Do you know if they have rear rotors too?

shadowshaggy
01-14-2014, 11:29 PM
Their on the wrong side, the idea behind drilled/slotted is improved cooling. This way has the air flowing towards the center of the gun rather than outwards. That's not just an opinion, there's science behind that statement. Flip them around and give it a shot.

Guest
01-14-2014, 11:37 PM
Yeah Shaggys correct, theyre on the wrong sides. Hope these work out for you, very cheap price.

krayzielilsmoki
01-15-2014, 01:06 AM
I checked the direction multiple times
http://www.zeckhausen.com/how_to_properly_install_rotors.htm

zyxelenator
01-15-2014, 01:34 AM
I believe he installed them correctly. Here is an example if you google slotted rotors images. I don't think guys at AMG are dump asses.
http://www.europeancarweb.com/firstlook/1310_2014_mercedes_benz_cla45_amg/photo_05.html
It depends more on vanes direction inside

modular
01-15-2014, 05:37 AM
According to the drop down fitment guide they don't have the 500 as an option for FIAT fitments. Something you have to contact them about for ordering?

krayzielilsmoki
01-15-2014, 08:34 AM
According to the drop down fitment guide they don't have the 500 as an option for FIAT fitments. Something you have to contact them about for ordering?

Correct, you must call them to order.

shadowshaggy
01-15-2014, 09:40 AM
Having them installed the same way you do results in two things: slightly better 5-8% better braking, and 50-60% less pad life because the slots are killing the pads. I have a set of 4 on my other car installed the way I suggested and have about 80k miles on the brakes and need new pads in the next few thousand miles. The other way around dont expect much life however, up to you. There's "proper" and then there's proper.

Abarth619
01-15-2014, 10:31 AM
Those rotors look great and the price is nice too!

hyprspec
01-15-2014, 10:45 AM
Having them installed the same way you do results in two things: slightly better 5-8% better braking, and 50-60% less pad life because the slots are killing the pads. I have a set of 4 on my other car installed the way I suggested and have about 80k miles on the brakes and need new pads in the next few thousand miles. The other way around dont expect much life however, up to you. There's "proper" and then there's proper.

come on man, "proper" and then there's proper ? Not so. This sounds more like there is the correct way and then there is my opinion.

The slots in the rotors contact surface do not matter the direction. Their purpose is to "sweep" the pad clean of debris and "outgass" the gas that can be created when you heat the pad material. Thus in theory producing a cleaner and tighter surface on the rotor for the pad to do its work

The slot will do what it is meant to do in either direction, inward or outward.

You're above statement sounds like a lot of personal opinion, which is fine. You can have and believe this till your heart is content, but please for the better of the community don't come on here and post your opinion as fact.

Now for your statement about degrading pad life based on slot direction? come on bro that's a lot of horse doo and you know it. Yes, slots can and do wear pads a little faster, but to claim the wear is worse in one direction or the other is just absurd... The same pad is passing the same slot - direction doesn't matter, think about it...

krayzielilsmoki
01-15-2014, 10:47 AM
Having them installed the same way you do results in two things: slightly better 5-8% better braking, and 50-60% less pad life because the slots are killing the pads. I have a set of 4 on my other car installed the way I suggested and have about 80k miles on the brakes and need new pads in the next few thousand miles. The other way around dont expect much life however, up to you. There's "proper" and then there's proper.

Thanks for the tip! Honestly I had them facing the other way at first because I rushed the install and I wasn't paying attention, I just wanted to get it on before the rain came, it actually started raining as I was putting the wheel back on.
I drove with the rotors facing the other direction a short distance before I started looking into it online and noticed that I installed them wrong. Swapping them back only took 20 minutes total so I might try the other way around again.
I will leave the backs blank for now, my next brake upgrade will be the green pads that Eurocompulsion offers.

shadowshaggy
01-15-2014, 11:29 AM
You're not familiar with centrifugal force are you hyprspec? As in, when something is rotating it tends to push heavier and hotter things outwards. So i.e., by having the slots going from outside to inside, you're trying to negate the physics principle of centrifugal force. When you have the slots going from inside to outside, you're helping the cooling effect of a rotating wheel, centrifugal force, get the hot away from the center of the wheel.

Sir, you do not Science and until you understand physics better than myself; don't be busting my balls.

You negated your own point by your second statement: "Their purpose is to "sweep" the pad clean of debris and "outgass" the gas that can be created when you heat the pad material. Thus in theory producing a cleaner and tighter surface on the rotor for the pad to do its work"

How do you expect to clean and remove gas when you're forcing it from the outside towards the center? Again, its Science not an opinion. So please hyprspec, prove me wrong.

We all know, just because companies/mfg's do something don't make it the right way to do it; i.e. Ryephile's boost leak fix. So again, they're not always "right" even if it works.

AbarthUSA
01-15-2014, 11:43 AM
If you look at most vehicles with slotted rotors, one will be sweeping clockwise and the other counterclockwise depending on what side of the car you are looking at. Most rotors are not made as left and right units, including very high end Ferrari, Porsche, AMG... The important bit is the type of vanes inside the rotor itself, this will dictate how to mount it.

hyprspec
01-15-2014, 11:44 AM
You're not familiar with centrifugal force are you hyprspec? As in, when something is rotating it tends to push heavier and hotter things outwards. So i.e., by having the slots going from outside to inside, you're trying to negate the physics principle of centrifugal force. When you have the slots going from inside to outside, you're helping the cooling effect of a rotating wheel, centrifugal force, get the hot away from the center of the wheel.

Sir, you do not Science and until you understand physics better than myself; don't be busting my balls.

You negated your own point by your second statement: "Their purpose is to "sweep" the pad clean of debris and "outgass" the gas that can be created when you heat the pad material. Thus in theory producing a cleaner and tighter surface on the rotor for the pad to do its work"

How do you expect to clean and remove gas when you're forcing it from the outside towards the center? Again, its Science not an opinion. So please hyprspec, prove me wrong.

We all know, just because companies/mfg's do something don't make it the right way to do it; i.e. Ryephile's boost leak fix. So again, they're not always "right" even if it works.

The slots do not have anything to do with cooling. The gas I'm referring to moving off the contact surface is NOT for cooling. It is to keep the gas from making a buffer between the pad and rotor, reducing surface area for friction

There is no cooling to be had on the friction surface of the rotor. Vented rotor vs non vented. Vented - Dual ply rotor with cooling vanes separating the sides. Non vented- Single disc, used mainly on the rear brakes of smaller lighter vehicles. The cooling comes from between the two halves - not the friction surface good sir. Thank you

AbarthUSA
01-15-2014, 11:53 AM
hyprspec is correct on this. The cooling part of the rotor is the vanes inside a disc. The cross drilling or slotting is to release gases caused by the friction of the pad against the disc.

shadowshaggy
01-15-2014, 11:59 AM
You know what, nevermind - I'm tired of threads getting jacked up and off track because of conversations like this. Yes the fins inside the dual layer rotors have to do with cooling, yes the slots and vents have to do with it as well. Not as much, but still has an effect. Unless your an automotive engineer, stop arguing please. You've not been here long, but arguing an invalidated point isn't a good place to start. I'm done with the conversation regarding this topic.

Back on topic, smoki - I dig the rotors and for those who aren't familiar with installs, good DIY. Coming from the background I come from, I can appreciate those who want to work on their cars themselves. As a professional technician for several years, I've seen my fair share of screw-up's - but then there are those who actually know what the hell their doing ;) Again, good job on the DIY and hope that this benefits the part of the community that isn't that familiar with the own car DIY type stuff. Sorry for the bad wording, long night. But you get the idea.

shadowshaggy
01-15-2014, 12:04 PM
hyprspec is correct on this. The cooling part of the rotor is the vanes inside a disc. The cross drilling or slotting is to release gases caused by the friction of the pad against the disc.

And gas is? Yeah, heat created by friction in this instance.......I rest my case. If you guys want to believe something else go for it, but unless you have valid evidence to support your idea - it's exactly that, an idea. Oh yeah, and the drilled part of the rotors, guess where the gas that goes through from the friction surface of the rotors? Don't bring conjecture to a science fight, now back to the subject at hand please.

Guest
01-15-2014, 12:07 PM
On a street car slotted/drilled rotors are there purely and soley to look nice. They do very little else and to suggest otherwise is pure nonsense. The best rotors for any normal street car is a high quality flat vented rotor. You get a greater surface area which the vanity rotors lose. Pads are more important and quality counts here too.

Sadly almost all cheaper drilled and/or slotted rotors will just crack and could be dangerous. The difference being theyre drilled after the fact and that just weakens them. If we were talking supercars then ok, but in this application its only looks that improve with these style of rotor.

I said they were on the wrong side as normally youd see them with the slots running consistent with wheel motion direction. Watch the holes too, they fill up with brake dust, poke a screwdriver etc through regularly to clean them out. Pads do wear faster but thats what the slots are supposed to do to keep pad faces clean.

Just enjoy them but stay vigilent to wear.

hyprspec
01-15-2014, 12:28 PM
And gas is? Yeah, heat created by friction in this instance.......I rest my case. If you guys want to believe something else go for it, but unless you have valid evidence to support your idea - it's exactly that, an idea. Oh yeah, and the drilled part of the rotors, guess where the gas that goes through from the friction surface of the rotors? Don't bring conjecture to a science fight, now back to the subject at hand please.

If you want to believe you are correct, you're more than entitled to. You will be the guy in 2nd place. this is what happens. People who think the are correct, are proven incorrect in a contest such as a race. But in this case, there is no difference in braking performance. If you have a slot (regardless of the swipe direction), braking performance is the same. So really there is no argument to be had here, OTHER than the point that the direction the slots go, does not matter.

The gas build up is practically negligible in volume(as in moving energy for cooling), but it is enough to create a potential buffer between the friction surface. Modern friction materials really don't gas very much. This whole idea (while still carrying the theory of effect), is pretty much outdated and just a marketing method for rotors.

The last thing I will say on this is.... Look at a formula 1 rotor. THEY ARE SMOOTH. NO SLOTS, NO HOLES.

hyprspec
01-15-2014, 12:33 PM
... You've not been here long, but arguing an invalidated point isn't a good place to start. I'm done with the conversation regarding this topic...

1) what does this have to do with anything
2) check the join date, I read, rarely post - I see a lot of misinformation like this posted on these forums


I'm out, OP - rotors are great, they will serve you well. Nice video, keep up the enthusiasm

krayzielilsmoki
01-15-2014, 01:15 PM
Hey we are all car enthusiasts here that share a common interest in the Abarth. We are here to share our experiences and knowledge.
I appreciate the input from all members and I can understand the thought process behind it. There is no need to argue the fact that others may not agree.
I don't have tons of spare cash to spend on this hobby. I know that a product that costs thousands of dollars might be better then one that I can afford, but since its out of my price range I try to find the best bang for the buck and share with the community.
I hope that my contributions have a positive impact in this forum, I have no intention on starting arguments or fueling the fire.

Dave80GTSi
01-15-2014, 01:18 PM
Sales Tax: $0.00
Shipping: $0.00
Discount: $0.00
Surcharge: $0.00
Grand Total: $89.09

Yes the total is $89.09 for both front rotors.

Are you certain that these rotors were $89.06 for the PAIR (that's $44.53 each rotor)?

Their website intro page indicates that these are $80.99 each - about what one might have anticipated.

Thanks - DM

krayzielilsmoki
01-15-2014, 02:10 PM
The total posted was what I was charged for both.

Robert Nixon
01-15-2014, 02:24 PM
"The last thing I will say on this is.... Look at a formula 1 rotor. THEY ARE SMOOTH. NO SLOTS, NO HOLES."

Well, yes, but an F1 car has brake rotors and a lot of other parts that are made of carbon fiber. My guess is that they can use the best material known to man for components, almost regardless of cost, so would have to conclude that carbon fiber rotors out perform anything.

Fiat500USA
01-15-2014, 03:49 PM
Thanks krayzielilsmoki for posting that. Good question regarding disc orientation, so I went to Brembo and found this.


Disc Rotation Direction
it is a popular misconception that the slots or drillings in a disc determine the direction of rotation. In truth, for an internally vented disc, the geometry of the vanes dictates the direction of rotation. There are three vane types in use:

1.Straight

2.Pillar vane (comprised of many small posts)

3.Curved vane

The first two vane types are non-directional, and can be used on either side of the vehicle. The curved vane disc, however, is directional. A curved vane disc must be installed with the vanes running back from the inside to outside diameters in the direction of rotation. Please see figure.


https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-nFhjFcKkpmk/UtbjXNaKlDI/AAAAAAAATZI/DGrNJjLLd84/s800/brembo%2520brake%2520disc%2520rotation.jpg

Orienting the disc in the manner creates a centrifugal pump. The rotation of the disc causes air to be pumped from the center of the disc, through the vanes, and out through the outside diameter of the disc. This greatly enhances the disc's ability to dissipate heat.

Additionally, all of Brembo's slotted discs are directional as well, regardless of the vane geometry. The discs should be installed such that the end of the slot nearest the outer edge of the disc contacts the pad first.*

*from Brembo Engineering Re; Identifying Rotational Direction of Disc

rnddude
01-15-2014, 05:32 PM
Thanks krayzielilsmoki for posting that. Good question regarding disc orientation, so I went to Brembo and found this.


Disc Rotation Direction
it is a popular misconception that the slots or drillings in a disc determine the direction of rotation. In truth, for an internally vented disc, the geometry of the vanes dictates the direction of rotation. There are three vane types in use:

1.Straight

2.Pillar vane (comprised of many small posts)

3.Curved vane

The first two vane types are non-directional, and can be used on either side of the vehicle. The curved vane disc, however, is directional. A curved vane disc must be installed with the vanes running back from the inside to outside diameters in the direction of rotation. Please see figure.


https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-nFhjFcKkpmk/UtbjXNaKlDI/AAAAAAAATZI/DGrNJjLLd84/s800/brembo%2520brake%2520disc%2520rotation.jpg

Orienting the disc in the manner creates a centrifugal pump. The rotation of the disc causes air to be pumped from the center of the disc, through the vanes, and out through the outside diameter of the disc. This greatly enhances the disc's ability to dissipate heat.

Additionally, all of Brembo's slotted discs are directional as well, regardless of the vane geometry. The discs should be installed such that the end of the slot nearest the outer edge of the disc contacts the pad first.*

*from Brembo Engineering Re; Identifying Rotational Direction of DiscAnd there you have it, from people who REALLY know what they are talking about. As to the OP, he should rely on the vanes direction (if there is a direction) and orient the discs accordingly. However, that assumes that he received a left and right biased set, which is NOT always the case. The last slotted set of discs I bought were identical to each other, so buyer beware. I did not find any real improvement with drilled or slotted rotors versus solid, so I will likely never spend extra for them in the future.

shadowshaggy
01-15-2014, 06:02 PM
If you want to believe you are correct, you're more than entitled to. You will be the guy in 2nd place. this is what happens. People who think the are correct, are proven incorrect in a contest such as a race. But in this case, there is no difference in braking performance. If you have a slot (regardless of the swipe direction), braking performance is the same. So really there is no argument to be had here, OTHER than the point that the direction the slots go, does not matter.

The gas build up is practically negligible in volume(as in moving energy for cooling), but it is enough to create a potential buffer between the friction surface. Modern friction materials really don't gas very much. This whole idea (while still carrying the theory of effect), is pretty much outdated and just a marketing method for rotors.

The last thing I will say on this is.... Look at a formula 1 rotor. THEY ARE SMOOTH. NO SLOTS, NO HOLES.


F1 cars use Ceramic brakes, if they cool too much they don't work properly. Ceramic brakes work best when hot. That wasn't really a particularly useful interjection, IMO. Obviously my several years of going to school to be an Automotive Technician don't mean much, we didn't spend a semester on brakes and suspension for any particular reason I suppose. Almost forgot, placing 26th in Nationals in an Automotive Technician competition for knowledge and hands on work don't mean anything either. Want me to prove it, let me know where to email a copy of the certificate. I don't mean to drag on this pissing contest Admin's, but I have a pretty good idea of working automotive technology.

Yes the internal vane direction is more important than the drill/slot portion, not once have I argued that. I appreciate the posted info from Brembo, I don't appreciate other members "because I said you were incorrect" conjecture. I know we try to keep that to a minimum around here. If the last 4 sets of D/S rotors I had purchased done in the manner in which I described, then I probably wouldn't have said anything. I can send you pics of the d/s rotors on my other car and they're done in that direction as well. As they all were built that way, I'm entitled to my opinion. But thank you for interjecting and stopping this nonsense.

Smoki, I appreciate you finding those and please keep us up to date on their longevity and performance.

AnthonyV
01-15-2014, 07:30 PM
Just for future reference OP, your original brake rotors we're probably fine. Modern brake rotors just about don't ever warp. Especially not under street driving conditions. What you we're experiencing, is a uneven build up of pad material on the rotors surface. A brake pad works by transferring pad material on to the rotor (the transfer layer) surface to generate friction, and in turn, slow down the rotor. Performance brake pads, will tend to generate "high spots" or a uneven layer of pad material. The vibrating feeling you get when you lightly depress the brake pedal is the pad bumping over the high spots of material build up.

This is a common occurrence for performance pads, especially one's that don't reach they're full operating temp frequently. The transfer layer will start to chunk off. The remedy for this isn't new rotors or pads, but more often then not you just need to bed in your pads again, and get an even transfer layer. You achieve this by getting the pads nice and hot from a series of hard braking cycles, and transferring pad material. If you only commute lightly, I would recommend bedding the pads in every couple months (or when the vibration starts to return). I can't tell you how many thousands of dollars must be wasted on "warped" rotors. It's a common, and just about never corrected misconception. The only reason you really need to junk you rotors is if they don't have enough material on them to get resurfaced after changing pads. A good shop will mic them for you before resurfacing them.

As for the the "upgraded" slottted/drilled rotors, I would be weary of them. In almost every instance I've seen, (even with quite expensive drilled rotors)they will 100% of the time begin to fracture around the drilling holes after heat cycling a few times. Especially if they are used for hard, or "spirited" driving. I would be seriously concerned about the quality of material, and metallurgy with "bargain" priced rotors as well.

I would say once these inevitably crack, (well begin to seriously fracture), huck them for a set of proper slotted or dimpled rotors (no drilling!).

Anyway, hope this helps somebody.

lillo24
03-19-2014, 12:50 AM
how are these rotors turning out?

krayzielilsmoki
03-19-2014, 07:55 AM
No warping, no cracking, and still look great :)

lillo24
03-20-2014, 12:16 AM
nice! have you tried their ceramic brake pads?

krayzielilsmoki
03-20-2014, 08:02 AM
Not yet, mine still have some bite left. Ill wait until these run out.

lagallinavecchia
03-20-2014, 08:41 AM
Look at a formula 1 rotor. THEY ARE SMOOTH. NO SLOTS, NO HOLES.

First let me say I agree with what you're saying (regarding a road car having drilled/slotted rotors)... but F1 rotors are carbon.

Additionally, I found this on the F1 site...

"So good are the brakes that the regulations deliberately discourage development through restrictions on materials or design, to prevent even shorter braking distances rendering overtaking all but impossible."

P.S. I have the R1 drilled/slotted rotors and they look great :)

BigDaddySRT
03-20-2014, 09:26 AM
First let me say I agree with what you're saying (regarding a road car having drilled/slotted rotors)... but F1 rotors are carbon.

Additionally, I found this on the F1 site...

"So good are the brakes that the regulations deliberately discourage development through restrictions on materials or design, to prevent even shorter braking distances rendering overtaking all but impossible."

P.S. I have the R1 drilled/slotted rotors and they look great :)

All the Holes.... and the Slots.... are just weak points.

When you are talking Brakes... you need all the mass and surface area you can get and a Properly designed core to improve dissipation of that heat.

AudiGuy
03-22-2014, 01:16 PM
I haven't read this thread yet because I figured it would just be a bunch of ill informed statements about cross drilled/slotted rotors. There is nothing wrong with drilled slotted rotors. The hype about them being a bad idea, comes from years of people buying rotors that weren't designed to be drilled, or were drilled in the wrong location/pattern. I'm not going to get into this debate. But for the people that are on here for accurate information, that's the real deal. And DO NOT buy drilled slotted rotors from anyone but the big names that know what they are doing. Many of the smaller companies will by blank rotors and machine them in house, or outsource the machining work.
Or maybe I'm wrong. But then so is Porsche, Lamborghini, lotus, Ferrari, Mclaren, Brembo, Apikol, Willwood, Zimmerman, etc.

pk9394
04-14-2014, 05:32 PM
No warping, no cracking, and still look great :)

I am about to change the rotors and pads as well, did you bleed them after installation. I know I don't have to. but did you?

AudiGuy
04-19-2014, 09:50 PM
I am about to change the rotors and pads as well, did you bleed them after installation. I know I don't have to. but did you?
No need to bleed them. Just be sure to take the cap off the reservoir when compressing the piston back into the caliper.

slowbird
04-20-2014, 12:38 AM
I think those rotors look great! Good price point too.

Pissing contests aside, Drilled/Slotted rotors are fine for the street. They look great and in the many years I've had them on my cars I've noticed no problems. I have run cheap sets and pricey sets and even run them to the point where the slots were worn flat. SpinningSmiley No cracking. No problems.

In regards to the comment that factory rotors don't warp, I disagree. Some manufacturers (Chrysler being a big one) use cheap rotors. I used to be a service advisor and the mini vans used to come in with wraped rotors all the time. I also used to own a Pontiac and the factory rotors on my Grand Am (and eveyone else on the Grand Am forums) warped quickly.

Having sad that I think it's better to purchase blank rotors of a good quality then a drilled/slotted rotors of an u/k quality.
I'd like to find some nice EBC or Brembo blanks for my Abarth. Paired with EBC greenstuff or redstuff pads.

AudiGuy
04-20-2014, 09:16 AM
I think those rotors look great! Good price point too.

Pissing contests aside, Drilled/Slotted rotors are fine for the street. They look great and in the many years I've had them on my cars I've noticed no problems. I have run cheap sets and pricey sets and even run them to the point where the slots were worn flat. SpinningSmiley No cracking. No problems.

In regards to the comment that factory rotors don't warp, I disagree. Some manufacturers (Chrysler being a big one) use cheap rotors. I used to be a service advisor and the mini vans used to come in with wraped rotors all the time. I also used to own a Pontiac and the factory rotors on my Grand Am (and eveyone else on the Grand Am forums) warped quickly.

Having sad that I think it's better to purchase blank rotors of a good quality then a drilled/slotted rotors of an u/k quality.
I'd like to find some nice EBC or Brembo blanks for my Abarth. Paired with EBC greenstuff or redstuff pads.

EBC makes great stuff. Their stuff is a great option for an upgrade over stock.

slowbird
04-21-2014, 03:51 AM
EBC makes great stuff. Their stuff is a great option for an upgrade over stock.

I've had extremely good experiences with their Greenstuff and redstuff pads as well as their HH pads for motorcycles.

AudiGuy
04-21-2014, 08:11 AM
I've had extremely good experiences with their Greenstuff and redstuff pads as well as their HH pads for motorcycles.


Me too. I put their dimpled rotors and green pads on my Range Rover. They made a HUGE difference.

silverarrow
04-21-2014, 05:46 PM
Good info here.

ksig421
06-08-2014, 01:26 PM
Hi krayzi, can we possibly get an update on how the rotors are holding up? Im looking to get new pads and rotors and these seem like a great price, but im concerned about the reliability of them. Thanks

wachuko
06-17-2014, 09:15 AM
My car, with 16K miles, needs new pads... looking at the wear on the rotor (I still have to measure it with the caliper) I also think that I will need to replace the rotors as well... glad I came across this thread.

wachuko
06-17-2014, 10:07 AM
Did you order the pads from them as well?

They are not open until 8am PT... so waiting to call and place the order. Checking to see if I should order the pads from them as well...

krayzielilsmoki
06-17-2014, 10:18 AM
I only got the rotors. They are still looking and performing like new. I was considering the green stuff for the pads once they need replacing.

wachuko
06-17-2014, 10:57 AM
Excellent. Thank you. I will do the same.


I only got the rotors. They are still looking and performing like new. I was considering the green stuff for the pads once they need replacing.

wachuko
06-17-2014, 01:32 PM
Ordered the EBC Green pads and the rotors... FYI, rotors are now 127.48 for the set... I mentioned this thread and the price you got them for... and they gave me a small discount. 119.98 for the two rotors, shipped. Still a good price for what I could find out there... so went ahead and ordered them...

================================================== ================
Ordered: 1 Filled: 1 rbbrakeparts 2012 Fiat 500 Abarth $0.00 Ship Date:

Ordered: 2 Filled: 0 EDS.04004 Performance Drilled & Slotted Disc Brake Rotor $74.99 Ship Date:

================================================== ================

Sales Tax: $0.00
Shipping: $0.00
Discount: $0.00
Surcharge: $0.00
Grand Total: $119.98

Gharbeson
06-17-2014, 07:56 PM
An honest question. What did you experience to lead you to drilled and slotted rotors? What is your driving style? Do you race? There seems to be interest here in upgrading. Just wondered.

ksig421
06-17-2014, 08:07 PM
I just ordered the rotors and ebc reds. I told them the price that krayzi paid for them and they looked up his invoice and matched it for me. I guess I got lucky, but the price did go up like wachuko said.

wachuko
06-18-2014, 09:53 AM
I just ordered the rotors and ebc reds. I told them the price that krayzi paid for them and they looked up his invoice and matched it for me. I guess I got lucky, but the price did go up like wachuko said.

Really!! @#$%#$@^%$... glad I am helping their bottom line... :Rolleyes:

krayzielilsmoki
06-18-2014, 10:39 AM
An honest question. What did you experience to lead you to drilled and slotted rotors? What is your driving style? Do you race? There seems to be interest here in upgrading. Just wondered.

Love the look of them. This is my daily driver so I did it mainly for the looks.

Orev
08-12-2014, 06:48 PM
Any updates or concerns

krayzielilsmoki
08-16-2014, 07:22 AM
Any updates or concerns

All good so far, no concerns at all.

Abarth Fun
10-28-2014, 06:02 PM
I don't know all the pros and cons associated with drilled rotors. But I do know as a mechanical engineer that holes are stress risers. This will be the case for mechanically applied stresses as well as thermal stresses. It's an undisputed fact in the engineering world and has been known for many decades and probably a century or two. There are entire books such as "Petersons Stress Concentration Factors" that are used to quantify the effects of stress risers such as notches, holes, rough surfaces and other risers. For a statically applied load on a ductile material stress risers are often not critical, but on structures that are subject to cyclic loading, repeated thermal stresses or for brittle materials it is a very important consideration.

So from an engineering standpoint it would be a design trades study, where you would want to balance the benefits you might gain by this feature vs the known liabilities. Regardless of whether a hole is drilled or cast there will be a stress riser. However, a hole with a very smooth surface and possibly shot peened may have the advantage of having fewer surface defects where cracks would develop. Also, for some applications where the rotor would be used for short periods and then discarded there may be benefits that make it worthwhile. I have read on these forums that drilled rotors may at one time had a beneficial effect on out gassing of the pads of the time. There are other benefits that may exist, so overall it may be that for some applications the benefits outweigh the risks.

But, all other things being identical, a rotor with small holes throughout is far more likely to develop stress cracks than a plain rotor. Clearly, many manufacturers have now engineered them to last, at least for normal use. But what I wonder is whether there is still a relevant engineering reason that these rotors would provide any advantage over a plain or slotted rotor (other than appearance).

boxerbay
10-28-2014, 06:43 PM
http://tpscifi.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/head_explosion.jpg

Tweak
10-28-2014, 09:31 PM
I don't know all the pros and cons associated with drilled rotors. But I do know as a mechanical engineer that holes are stress risers. This will be the case for mechanically applied stresses as well as thermal stresses. It's an undisputed fact in the engineering world and has been known for many decades and probably a century or two. There are entire books such as "Petersons Stress Concentration Factors" that are used to quantify the effects of stress risers such as notches, holes, rough surfaces and other risers. For a statically applied load on a ductile material stress risers are often not critical, but on structures that are subject to cyclic loading, repeated thermal stresses or for brittle materials it is a very important consideration.

So from an engineering standpoint it would be a design trades study, where you would want to balance the benefits you might gain by this feature vs the known liabilities. Regardless of whether a hole is drilled or cast there will be a stress riser. However, a hole with a very smooth surface and possibly shot peened may have the advantage of having fewer surface defects where cracks would develop. Also, for some applications where the rotor would be used for short periods and then discarded there may be benefits that make it worthwhile. I have read on these forums that drilled rotors may at one time had a beneficial effect on out gassing of the pads of the time. There are other benefits that may exist, so overall it may be that for some applications the benefits outweigh the risks.

But, all other things being identical, a rotor with small holes throughout is far more likely to develop stress cracks than a plain rotor. Clearly, many manufacturers have now engineered them to last, at least for normal use. But what I wonder is whether there is still a relevant engineering reason that these rotors would provide any advantage over a plain or slotted rotor (other than appearance).

Nicely stated. I LOVE the look but I do not have any for the same reasons, just seems likely they'll at some point develop cracks. I NEED rotors sometime soon (mine are getting pretty thin) and have been looking more at slotted and dimpled as an alternative option.

slowbird
10-28-2014, 10:24 PM
Though I do not dispute that the holes in crossed drilled rotors are potential stress points for cracks, my experience with countless sets of Cross drilled rotors on my cars and my Motorcycles (that come with cross drilled rotors from the factory).
Both cheap sets and expensive sets, and some sets I have worn down so bad that the slots were gone, in many different driving conditions and times when I've had rotors discolored from overheating....

...I have never seen any siginificant cracks in the rotors, nor have I had any problems with cross drilled rotors in particular.

I'm not disputing the science, I am mearly stating my experience.

I do think though that it's better to buy a well made blank rotor then a cheaply made Cross drilled and/or slotted rotor.

EliRider
11-04-2014, 03:03 PM
I just ordered 4 rotors and they matched the original price.

Abarth Fun
11-04-2014, 05:31 PM
I would like to include a post that I read from "Taddeo" on the Fiat Black Forum. Apparently he is an experienced Brake Engineer. Everything he said corresponds to what I know generally as an engineer myself, as well as being more detailed and specific due to it being his specific field. It's very useful and well written:

-----------------------------------

"I can help to shed some light on the drilled/slotted/cracking rotor issue. Just for background reference, I have beena brake engineer for the last 14.5 years. Three years in the Ford Motor Company brake group, then eight and a half at Brembo (four and a half in Applications and four in Vehicle Development) and for the last three in electronic parking brake development at Continental-Teves.
Lets start with where x-drilled discs came from and what they can and can't do. Drilled discs originated form racing. In the sixties and seventies, as disc brakes were evolving, there was a serious issue with pad out-gassing. Pad out-gassing occurs when some of the resins in the pad material would burn off during hi-temp usage. This gas would create a small boundary layer between the pads and the rotor. When the driver would press the pedal, this boundary layer would impede and slow the braking, feeling much like brake fade. The solution at the time was simple: give the gas a place to go. With a drilled disc, the gas would be forced into the venting of the disc and expelled via centrifugal pumping of the disc. A secondary benefit was increased first efficiency in the rain, largely due to the same principal. Big negatives, were discs cracking (although a race team will inspect and replace discs often) and high pad wear due to the holes. Slowly, beginning with higher end cars like Porsche and Ferrari, the look trickled into road cars. Flash forward to today. Modern pad compounds don't out-gas, and haven't for over 15 years. The main purpose of x-drilled rotors is purely cosmetic....its bling. Yes, there is still a small increase in first effectiveness in the wet, but all but the most discerning drivers can't notice. They won't make your car stop shorter. They won't run cooler. They won't save weight.
The only real exception to this is the Carbon-Ceramic Matrix discs from higher-end super cars. Those a re a different animal all together, and don't function like a normal iron disc. In those cases, the x-drilling is extremely beneficial to the cooling of the rotor.
All cast iron rotors can and will crack eventually under extreme conditions. A plain faced rotor will develop small micro cracks along the brake plate, known as surface checking. This is normal and not a concern unless the crack propagates too long, or touches the inner or outer edge. I spec'd and tested a lot of brake systems for a lot of high-end cars. We always recommended a plain faced disc for hard track usage. The OEM's always chose what they wanted based upon looks and cost. A cross drilled rotor will always crack earlier than a non-cross drilled disc. The reason is the drilled hole creates a stress riser, where the crack can start from. Even at Brembo, our life requirement for a drilled rotor during testing like thermal shock was about 20% lower than a plain faced vented rotor. There are a lot of myths out there surrounding cross-drilled rotors. Many people believe that Porsche x-drilled discs don't crack and that they are cast with the holes in place. Both are utter BS. I've seen many, many Porsche discs crack at the holes under track usage. And I have seen the manufacturing, they are drilled and chamfered, same as everyone else. The key to longevity is a properly designed disc. One of the most common issues and failures you see is when someone takes a plain faced disc in the aftermarket and then drills the holes. This causes a lot of issues, as that disc wasn't designed around the holes. When a proper manufacturer, designs a cross drilled rotor, it is designed that way from the beginning. The rotor is slightly over sized to account for the loss in thermal mass that the drilling will bring. The hole pattern is then mapped so as not to cause issues with the venting design, be it straight, curved or pillar vanes. The hole size and the chamfer size and angle are then matched, to minimize stresses in the area. Its not a case of throwing a rotor on the drill press.
Now slotted rotors a re a bit different. Slotted discs don't have the same crack propagation issues as a plain faced disc. They were developed in racing as well, but mostly in the rally world. The idea is to help prevent dirt/mud build up and more importantly pad glazing that can occur. The slots act like a planer, constantly wiping the pad surface. In the industry, we always called it "wiping the fire band". Its a pretty good description. The big draw back, is increased pad wear, often even more so than x-drilled discs.
Now all that being said, don't let it worry you for a street car. As long as they were form a quality manufacturer, I wouldn't hesitate to run drilled or slotted discs on my street car, or even auto-x car. They just plain look awesome. :evil: If you are going to the track a lot, or running hard in a time trials type event, then definitely use a heavy duty plain faced disc. There is a reason that you don't see x-drilled discs in almost any racing series anymore.
That was a little more long winded than i intended, but I hope it helps.
Cheers,
Todd"

EliRider
11-29-2014, 03:20 PM
Brake Lab rotors
EBC Red ceramic brake pads
Stainless brake lines from Madness
Bilstein coil-overs

15609

15607 15608

Gharbeson
11-29-2014, 05:08 PM
I'd suggest avoiding drilled rotors like the plague. There is a reason they are never seen on cars on the track. I had a chance to look at some drilled rotors that were on a tracked car and the tiny hard to see checking/cracking was startling.

Abarth Five O
11-29-2014, 05:19 PM
Brake Lab rotors
EBC Red ceramic brake pads
Stainless brake lines from Madness
Bilstein coil-overs

15609

15607 15608

Like your custom CAI and Forge FMIC. Assume you have to manually clean your windshield?

EliRider
11-29-2014, 07:20 PM
Thanks... I had the washer re-routed to the other side.


Like your custom CAI and Forge FMIC. Assume you have to manually clean your windshield?

Abarth Fun
11-29-2014, 07:24 PM
I'd suggest avoiding drilled rotors like the plague. There is a reason they are never seen on cars on the track. I had a chance to look at some drilled rotors that were on a tracked car and the tiny hard to see checking/cracking was startling.

Very true, although for street use only they are OK. Still, I want my brake system to be as safe and reliable as it can reasonably be. Consequently, when I do my brakes in the future it will be flat rotors and a high temp fade resistant pad, probably EBC yellow or red ( although there are certainly other good choices as well).

Crazy Otto
11-29-2014, 07:38 PM
15610

yep. No drilled rotors for racing. Even a friends porsche gt3 front rotors start cracking after a few events. When i was tracking my mercedes c32 amg i would have to carefully monitor the condition of the rotors. See pic.

For regular street use the drilling and slotting is strictly for show.

I use slotted rotors on my m3 race car and you can see the micro cracking on the surface of the metal as the post from the brake engineer above mentions.

I'm at 32k and have worn out my pads and rotors. I have ebc green stuff ready to go in but need to find a decent slotted rotor. I think I'll be doing a couple hard track days next yr on r compounds. Stainless lines and motul 600 will complete the package.

idrivemyself
12-02-2014, 03:46 PM
Brake Lab rotors
EBC Red ceramic brake pads
Stainless brake lines from Madness
Bilstein coil-overs

15609

15607 15608


Like your custom CAI and Forge FMIC. Assume you have to manually clean your windshield?

Nope, that's not a Forge FMIC. :wink:

The EBC Red's, BL rotors and SS lines have been a great pairing thus far with much improved pedal feel over stock. I was pleasantly surprised to see the depth of chamfering on the BL rotors and if the metallurgy is correct they should hold up to a decent amount of abuse as a street/track rotor. Time will tell!

EliRider
12-02-2014, 06:56 PM
The brakes are breaking in nicely! I'm loving this combo so far.

As far as I'm concern, the price of these rotors are disposable enough that the cost is not an issue even if I were to replace them in another +20K miles later.

ENZOSON
12-11-2014, 09:20 AM
Hi - do the EBC pads come with the brake wear sensor harness?

thanks

Pietro


Brake Lab rotors
EBC Red ceramic brake pads
Stainless brake lines from Madness
Bilstein coil-overs

15609

15607 15608

Davothegr8
12-18-2014, 11:40 PM
Hi - do the EBC pads come with the brake wear sensor harness?

thanks

Pietro

Has anyone used their pads? Im looking for ceramics. How is the dust ?

shagghie
12-19-2014, 04:06 PM
Surprised to see so many EBC users in this thread. I would have expected to see Ferrodo posts all day long given how much praise they are given in the UK/IT A500 forums. The advice I was given from one of the drivers during the Abarth experience was that after driving the cars hard for several months, they had yet to experience a single car with any break fade and that the stock calipers and size of the rotors was over-spec'd from the factory to begin with on the Abarth with the idea being that the car could be driven to the track and raced all day and driven back home again. What % of those statements were 100% genuine and not influenced by Fiat's having paid that driver, I don't know. My plan is still to simply upgrade to the Ferrodo pads and leave the stock rotors. If I get new rotors, i would get flat and vented still. For such a light car, heat doesn't seem to be an issue, nor does fading. Would love to know if others big-tracking their cars have experienced fade with the stock rotors though... first hand experience and testimony matters more than anything to me when it comes to brakes on a given platform.

Tweak
12-19-2014, 04:30 PM
Surprised to see so many EBC users in this thread. I would have expected to see Ferrodo posts all day long given how much praise they are given in the UK/IT A500 forums. The advice I was given from one of the drivers during the Abarth experience was that after driving the cars hard for several months, they had yet to experience a single car with any break fade and that the stock calipers and size of the rotors was over-spec'd from the factory to begin with on the Abarth with the idea being that the car could be driven to the track and raced all day and driven back home again. What % of those statements were 100% genuine and not influenced by Fiat's having paid that driver, I don't know. My plan is still to simply upgrade to the Ferrodo pads and leave the stock rotors. If I get new rotors, i would get flat and vented still. For such a light car, heat doesn't seem to be an issue, nor does fading. Would love to know if others big-tracking their cars have experienced fade with the stock rotors though... first hand experience and testimony matters more than anything to me when it comes to brakes on a given platform.

I do not track my car but I do hit the mountains a few times a year. Driving there with others and needing to use the brakes some of us notice a little fade and in my case my rotors are in need of replacement currently. They are thinning out but the pads have some life left. I am at 27K, bought the car with 8K so all me having fun. I'm likely going with EBC reds sometime in the future. Rotors I have not decided but looked at R1 as an option, slotted possibly but not drilled for sure.

MarkG
12-19-2014, 06:50 PM
I do not track my car but I do hit the mountains a few times a year. Driving there with others and needing to use the brakes some of us notice a little fade and in my case my rotors are in need of replacement currently. They are thinning out but the pads have some life left. I am at 27K, bought the car with 8K so all me having fun. I'm likely going with EBC reds sometime in the future. Rotors I have not decided but looked at R1 as an option, slotted possibly but not drilled for sure.

After three "Dragons" and 29K Miles I checked my front brakes. The pads were worn so that the cut was gone and the rotors were worn with a lip, but still above min. I resurfaced the rotors and installed new Wagner semi metallic pads worked out great!

shagghie
12-19-2014, 07:32 PM
I do not track my car but I do hit the mountains a few times a year. Driving there with others and needing to use the brakes some of us notice a little fade and in my case my rotors are in need of replacement currently. They are thinning out but the pads have some life left. I am at 27K, bought the car with 8K so all me having fun. I'm likely going with EBC reds sometime in the future. Rotors I have not decided but looked at R1 as an option, slotted possibly but not drilled for sure.

I can't see going with EBC over Ferrodo for our cars, but pads are a matter of choice and the Ferrodo's put out a ton of dust for sure, but nothing stops like them for our application based on everything I've read across the pond. Would love if anyone who's run both who see's this could chime in though.


After three "Dragons" and 29K Miles I checked my front brakes. The pads were worn so that the cut was gone and the rotors were worn with a lip, but still above min. I resurfaced the rotors and installed new Wagner semi metallic pads worked out great!

That's great info! I may just resurface mine too. I'm only at 17k miles though now.

Tweak
12-21-2014, 10:40 PM
After three "Dragons" and 29K Miles I checked my front brakes. The pads were worn so that the cut was gone and the rotors were worn with a lip, but still above min. I resurfaced the rotors and installed new Wagner semi metallic pads worked out great!


I can't see going with EBC over Ferrodo for our cars, but pads are a matter of choice and the Ferrodo's put out a ton of dust for sure, but nothing stops like them for our application based on everything I've read across the pond. Would love if anyone who's run both who see's this could chime in though.



That's great info! I may just resurface mine too. I'm only at 17k miles though now.

4 Dragon runs and 2 trips to Virginia mountains and I do need to make a change. I'll buy from EC and they carry the EBC reds, plus I must maintain some budget and do not want a very dusty pad. :)

krayzielilsmoki
03-26-2015, 03:05 PM
I got an email from them today with a coupon code if anyone is interested.

Power Sport
Save An Extra 10% Off
Coupon code: BLS
(Expires: 3/31/2015)

Abarthpanda
03-30-2015, 04:30 PM
I've bookmarked them. they are on my list....which is growing ever so long as the days go on. I guess dynoing at 194whp set me on a rampage to get that extra 6whp HAHA, but I'll need the stopping power to go with it!