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TorkMe
12-15-2013, 02:51 AM
That is what we are doing for you guys!!!

So, I decided to work on the non-sport mode tune for you guys. I know you didn't want the sport mode and non sport mode horsepower numbers to be close to each other, you wanted the "button" to do something. So, we took the time to tune both Sport Mode and Non-Sport mode. It took most of the day today, but we have a tune that is near perfection.

Now when you hit that button... OH MY!

Dyno's below:

8887

Thanks,

John

krayzielilsmoki
12-15-2013, 09:43 AM
Holy crap! This is like stock vs. Tuned at a press of a button. I can't wait to play with this :-)

dart1.4t
12-15-2013, 11:10 AM
that's pretty cool. but the way i would like to see it, is maybe that same hp on both settings... now hear me out, because there would be a difference... one with max area under the power curve. and one with linear torque and linear torque mapping against throttle angle. the difference is the normal mode would have less boost and torque in the mid range. power would climb in a strait line, the car would be well mannered and predictable. gear selection however would be more critical in a racing situation. the other tune would be full boost, power would follow an arc, or just level out at a speed in the middle. like 4000 rpm and stay perfectly flat to the rev limiter. and torque would fall as speed increases. the advantage of this, is the gear selection is less critical. the forward accelerations doensn't drop with an upshift because torque increses with lower rpm and the power in the higher gear is close to the same value as the gear before it. the overall effect is more power under the curve ie more average hp as long as you stay in the throttle long enough. don't shift because the torque is falling because you are using that rpm range so you can land the next gear near peak power.

basically like what you have now, but with the lower setting not dropping off, just holding out the 155-160lb/ft number all the way to redline..

jflexe99
12-15-2013, 11:30 AM
I like!

TorkMe
12-15-2013, 07:31 PM
that's pretty cool. but the way i would like to see it, is maybe that same hp on both settings... now hear me out, because there would be a difference... one with max area under the power curve. and one with linear torque and linear torque mapping against throttle angle. the difference is the normal mode would have less boost and torque in the mid range. power would climb in a strait line, the car would be well mannered and predictable. gear selection however would be more critical in a racing situation. the other tune would be full boost, power would follow an arc, or just level out at a speed in the middle. like 4000 rpm and stay perfectly flat to the rev limiter. and torque would fall as speed increases. the advantage of this, is the gear selection is less critical. the forward accelerations doensn't drop with an upshift because torque increses with lower rpm and the power in the higher gear is close to the same value as the gear before it. the overall effect is more power under the curve ie more average hp as long as you stay in the throttle long enough. don't shift because the torque is falling because you are using that rpm range so you can land the next gear near peak power.

basically like what you have now, but with the lower setting not dropping off, just holding out the 155-160lb/ft number all the way to redline..

There wouldn't be enough separation in the tunes if we did that, now hear me out. The turbo is the limitation on what we can or cannot do. There are also other tables that I am not going to discuss on an open forum but non-sport mode only has "so much" room for adjustment without me disabling particular safety limits.

I have spent a solid 6 months on this tune... look at the AFR's from sport mode to non sport mode. Look at how smooth the boost table is and the separation between the two tunes. With over 400 changes in between the stock file and this one... I think we have brought the customers the best of both worlds!

shagghie
12-16-2013, 12:22 AM
max torque at 230 is bonkers...nice work! Indeed for those of use that DD our Abarths and race them on weekends too, I would love to see the non-sport mode be tuned just like stock a TMC box on #6. And then sport mode = big nasty beaver mode with big teeth and 230TQ. I think what I'm hearing though (and this is OK)...is that you've massaged the non-sport mode as much as you'd like to at this point. Just tossing out a preference for sake of input/feedback. Keep up the great work!

redred
12-16-2013, 12:30 AM
Is there any chance non-sport mode could have the tighter steering control that is available in the stock sport mode? Do you even have access to that portion of the ECU?

Abarth Phreak
12-16-2013, 12:52 AM
"big nasty beaver"

Whoop...there it is!!!! My daily dose of Shagghie!

On a serious note... +1 for Shaggz and Redz comments while searching for that "perfection".

TorkMe
12-16-2013, 03:44 PM
max torque at 230 is bonkers...nice work! Indeed for those of use that DD our Abarths and race them on weekends too, I would love to see the non-sport mode be tuned just like stock a TMC box on #6. And then sport mode = big nasty beaver mode with big teeth and 230TQ. I think what I'm hearing though (and this is OK)...is that you've massaged the non-sport mode as much as you'd like to at this point. Just tossing out a preference for sake of input/feedback. Keep up the great work!


We could manage to tune the non-sport mode to do anything we want, I am just not comfortable with turning off the safety limits with our Stage 1 tune. Stage 2 tune will be a whole different beast with options that include just that!

Right now you get Sport Mode power in non Sport Mode, and fantastic power in Sport mode!!! Its the best of both worlds!

Abarth Phreak
12-16-2013, 11:52 PM
We could manage to tune the non-sport mode to do anything we want, I am just not comfortable with turning off the safety limits with our Stage 1 tune. Stage 2 tune will be a whole different beast with options that include just that!

Right now you get Sport Mode power in non Sport Mode, and fantastic power in Sport mode!!! Its the best of both worlds!

Well there it is....now get it released!

TorkMe
12-17-2013, 03:19 AM
Well there it is....now get it released!

Wednesday or Thursday will be the release day. We are trying to get the 500 T tune released at the same time, so working hard tonight and tomorrow to get all the tune details done for both cars.

TorkMe
12-17-2013, 07:25 PM
Bad news... the 500T has a different clutch part number than the Abarth. The 500T will not be able to make the same power as the Abarth due to the clutch slipping with the Abarth tune.

shadowshaggy
12-17-2013, 07:27 PM
Not exactly a heart breaking find, we all knew there had to be some significant difference. So throw a few hundred bucks at an Abarth clutch and still make 200whp?

krayzielilsmoki
12-17-2013, 07:35 PM
Not exactly a heart breaking find, we all knew there had to be some significant difference. So throw a few hundred bucks at an Abarth clutch and still make 200whp?

If you dont mind upgrading the clutch... Tork will have one released that will handle way more than 200whp coming out, at that point why not go all out and get a stage 2 tune haha

shadowshaggy
12-17-2013, 07:43 PM
Because the factory turbo won't support more than 200whp, so it'd be a wasted effort. The factory clutch won't hold much more either. He's mentioned already they're in the works of an upgraded clutch, to alleviate that issue entirely.

So now the issue with the Stage 2, turbo upgrade, clutch upgrade, plus the other necessary parts. Tack another $2000ish on top of the FMIC-DP-CAI-Tune prices. While yes throwing $4000-$5000 at an Abarth would ideally yield 300whp-ish and be really bad ass, that much power in a car this size is like sitting in a top-fuel or funny car and waiting to pee yourself everytime you hit the gas ;)

charliesheen
12-17-2013, 07:54 PM
While yes throwing $4000-$5000 at an Abarth would ideally yield 300whp-ish and be really bad ass, that much power in a car this size is like sitting in a top-fuel or funny car and waiting to pee yourself everytime you hit the gas ;)


nothing wrong with that ;)

opiateESP
12-17-2013, 11:29 PM
Bad news... the 500T has a different clutch part number than the Abarth. The 500T will not be able to make the same power as the Abarth due to the clutch slipping with the Abarth tune.

Could be worse. I'd happily buy a clutch to be on par with a tuned Abarth.

Abarth Phreak
12-17-2013, 11:48 PM
Bad news... the 500T has a different clutch part number than the Abarth. The 500T will not be able to make the same power as the Abarth due to the clutch slipping with the Abarth tune.

That's good news for me....it doesn't really appeal to me for the 500T guys to get the power anyway devaluing the Abarth heritage....cheapos...LOL (Kidding guys, sit back down)

I guess it wasn't cheaper to use the same parts for Fiat's savings plan. On a serious note, the clutch is a wear part anyway...so someday it needs replacing. Hmm...

opiateESP
12-17-2013, 11:53 PM
That's good news for me....it doesn't really appeal to me for the 500T guys to get the power anyway devaluing the Abarth heritage....cheapos...LOL

TURNING GREEN... HULK... TYPE... RAGE...


(Kidding guys, sit back down)

Oh... never mind :D


I guess it wasn't cheaper to use the same parts for Fiat's savings plan. On a serious note, the clutch is a wear part anyway...so someday it needs replacing. Hmm...

I would guess it's a drivability thing. The 500T is a "not slow" fiat as opposed to the sports nature of the Abarth. The heavier clutch of the Abarth may have been a bit much for the projected average 500T customer.

TorkMe
12-18-2013, 01:54 AM
Because the factory turbo won't support more than 200whp, so it'd be a wasted effort. The factory clutch won't hold much more either. He's mentioned already they're in the works of an upgraded clutch, to alleviate that issue entirely.

So now the issue with the Stage 2, turbo upgrade, clutch upgrade, plus the other necessary parts. Tack another $2000ish on top of the FMIC-DP-CAI-Tune prices. While yes throwing $4000-$5000 at an Abarth would ideally yield 300whp-ish and be really bad ass, that much power in a car this size is like sitting in a top-fuel or funny car and waiting to pee yourself everytime you hit the gas ;)


I don't know about the 200 HP comment... we will have some updated dyno to show you guys very soon.

300 WHP in an 500, nothing but smiles.

tknospdr
12-18-2013, 10:04 AM
So what kind of HP could one expect from the Turbo with say, just a CAI and your tune?

Yorkman1
12-18-2013, 10:47 AM
I am almost positive it was ~200 wheel and ~230 ft/lbs. there is just an intake dyno around here somewhere

tknospdr
12-18-2013, 10:57 AM
TorkMe just said I can't have the same tune as an Abarth because of my wimpy clutch (direct quote, I'm sure that's what he said! ;) ).
Wondering what the differences between Turbo and Abarth tunes will be.

shadowshaggy
12-18-2013, 11:12 AM
I don't know about the 200 HP comment... we will have some updated dyno to show you guys very soon.

300 WHP in an 500, nothing but smiles.

You missed a highlighted word chief, in you own words previously you said the factory turbo & clutch won't hold much more than 200whp. That's approximately 225 crank hp, that's sort of 60 someodd over stock. These are all things that you've said before. I just restated it.

But you did properly restate my 300whp point ;)

edited from work to word, typo

opiateESP
12-18-2013, 12:12 PM
You missed a highlighted work chief, in you own words previously you said the factory turbo & clutch won't hold much more than 200whp. That's approximately 225 crank hp, that's sort of 60 someodd over stock. These are all things that you've said before. I just restated it.

But you did properly restate my 300whp point ;)

Clutch was past 230 ft/lbs on the Abarth but meh :D

300 whp sounds great to me.

shadowshaggy
12-18-2013, 02:38 PM
umm hp and tq are different forces, the tune imposed limit on the clutch is ~200whp & ~230wtq

opiateESP
12-18-2013, 03:46 PM
umm hp and tq are different forces, the tune imposed limit on the clutch is ~200whp & ~230wtq

Yes... but horsepower is a derivative of torque and it is that high degree of torque that would cause the clutch to slip. For example, if the tune was set for say 220 whp and 180 wtq, there really wouldn't be much of an issue with the clutch. Smarter people than me exist though and I'm happy to be wrong :D

This is just my understanding.

shadowshaggy
12-18-2013, 04:08 PM
One is what gets you there and the other keeps you there. Torque is for getting off the line, hp is for keeping moving. Ex. A Honda Civic Si 2008ish had 197whp, like 140 someodd torque. Being a Honda, making said power at like 8000 rpm's. There was little get up and go from a stand still, but already moving - not too shabby. On the other had, we have the oddly tuned Abarth - factory claim 160hp 170tq. Good way to burn thru a clutch is to launch hard in this car, you have to feather it out to avoid buying a set of tires every 5th hard launch. These cars aren't meant from the factory to run 130mph+ constantly, not saying folks don't do it, but not designed to. The Abarth was meant, back in the day, for the old version of Auto-X or road racing which ever you opt to call it. 2nd & 3rd gear pull like no one's business, that's your indicator of how much torque it's producing at that time. Anyone who argues that point hasn't looked at a dyno, the mid-range rpm's are potent in this car. High rpm's don't make crap for power, not here anyways.

You're correct, a lot of torque will smoke a clutch quickly, if it's not designed to hold said quantity. The way the tune rolls out, because of the very peculiar way the ECM coding is written, it makes way more tq than hp. Normally turbo cars are the other way around. I.E. a turbo Civic launches like a horse n buggy and has a trap speed of 150+ mph.

You have the right idea though.

TorkMe
12-18-2013, 04:34 PM
One is what gets you there and the other keeps you there. Torque is for getting off the line, hp is for keeping moving. Ex. A Honda Civic Si 2008ish had 197whp, like 140 someodd torque. Being a Honda, making said power at like 8000 rpm's. There was little get up and go from a stand still, but already moving - not too shabby. On the other had, we have the oddly tuned Abarth - factory claim 160hp 170tq. Good way to burn thru a clutch is to launch hard in this car, you have to feather it out to avoid buying a set of tires every 5th hard launch. These cars aren't meant from the factory to run 130mph+ constantly, not saying folks don't do it, but not designed to. The Abarth was meant, back in the day, for the old version of Auto-X or road racing which ever you opt to call it. 2nd & 3rd gear pull like no one's business, that's your indicator of how much torque it's producing at that time. Anyone who argues that point hasn't looked at a dyno, the mid-range rpm's are potent in this car. High rpm's don't make crap for power, not here anyways.

You're correct, a lot of torque will smoke a clutch quickly, if it's not designed to hold said quantity. The way the tune rolls out, because of the very peculiar way the ECM coding is written, it makes way more tq than hp. Normally turbo cars are the other way around. I.E. a turbo Civic launches like a horse n buggy and has a trap speed of 150+ mph.

You have the right idea though.

I should have stated it was torque and not horsepower.

The 500T will be limited to 200 WTQ and 200 WHP so we don't have to worry about killing the stock clutch.

The Abarth has taken 242 WTQ so far but it is starting to show signs of slipping. So... 230 WTQ is the limiter for the Abarth, 200 WTQ is the limiter for the 500T. Horsepower should be the same between the two.

I hope that clears up the mistake I made about the HP comment.

TorkMe
12-18-2013, 04:36 PM
TorkMe just said I can't have the same tune as an Abarth because of my wimpy clutch (direct quote, I'm sure that's what he said! ;) ).
Wondering what the differences between Turbo and Abarth tunes will be.

The differences will be around 30 WTQ. The goal is to make 200 WHP with both tunes, we just need to make sure the 500 T can support the 200 WHP goal we have set. I can tell you that after driving around a few days with the Abarth Stage 1 tune inside the 500T... what a monster this car is! At the release of the 500T tune we will have all the details posted up along with some video.

shadowshaggy
12-18-2013, 04:37 PM
No worries, just helping opi out with the differences between TQ and HP. So at speed, the 500T and Abarth are about the same, but off the line the Abarth kills it ;)

TorkMe
12-18-2013, 04:37 PM
So what kind of HP could one expect from the Turbo with say, just a CAI and your tune?

High 190's for WHP and 220's for WTQ. With additional mods you will be limited to 240 WTQ and 210 WHP (limiters are set inside the ECU).

shadowshaggy
12-18-2013, 04:38 PM
We need videos of a Stage 1 Abarth and 500T racing



______ dddddd
smtree2
______ dddddd

TorkMe
12-18-2013, 04:39 PM
No worries, just helping opi out with the differences between TQ and HP. So at speed, the 500T and Abarth are about the same, but off the line the Abarth kills it ;)

Pretty much!

There is also a weight difference, but only 100lbs between them. I swear that the 500T is faster than the Abarth but its been a few days since I drove the Abarth. I hope to be driving the Abarth tonight and getting some back to back comparisons done.

TorkMe
12-18-2013, 04:39 PM
We need videos of a Stage 1 Abarth and 500T racing dddddd smtree2 dddddd

LOL, I was just thinking the same thing.

shadowshaggy
12-18-2013, 04:41 PM
fixed my pic :)

opiateESP
12-18-2013, 04:55 PM
LOL, I was just thinking the same thing.

I'd be in for that!


fixed my pic :)

We need 500 emoticons!

TorkMe
12-18-2013, 06:01 PM
I'd be in for that!



We need 500 emoticons!


:)

Now back to work...

shadowshaggy
12-18-2013, 06:23 PM
But racing is work for you, so pretend racing is work for us or no?

opiateESP
12-18-2013, 06:43 PM
But racing is work for you, so pretend racing is work for us or no?

Dude, my hotwheels is way faster than your hotwheels. </racecarsounds>

shagghie
12-18-2013, 06:48 PM
I'd be in for that!



We need 500 emoticons!

Here's your emoticon!

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRUnRAZDQuvQs8A_2M8MZOa-DTk_D3QlfuozCQnsqH5WO7oFqmA

(note the reversed Scorpion in the pic... wonder if the photo has been reversed?)

shadowshaggy
12-18-2013, 06:56 PM
Your hotwheels maybe faster than mine opi, but not faster than this ^^ man what a dress ;)

opiateESP
12-18-2013, 07:15 PM
Your hotwheels maybe faster than mine opi, but not faster than this ^^ man what a dress ;)

Can't disagree with ya there! That Abarth is hot too.

Sorry for derailing the thread John!

Abarth Phreak
12-19-2013, 01:36 AM
TURNING GREEN... HULK... TYPE... RAGE...



Oh... never mind :D



I would guess it's a drivability thing. The 500T is a "not slow" fiat as opposed to the sports nature of the Abarth. The heavier clutch of the Abarth may have been a bit much for the projected average 500T customer.

Yes, they probably assume that a person wanting more power would not want the T and just go straight for the Abarth performance, not realizing the monsters created huh Hulk? LOL

opiateESP
12-19-2013, 01:42 AM
Yes, they probably assume that a person wanting more power would not want the T and just go straight for the Abarth performance, not realizing the monsters created huh Hulk? LOL

HulK SmaSH!

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/500x/9286538.jpg
lol.

Kidding aside, I picked up the 500T because I reckoned that a tune and maybe a couple parts would be all that were needed to match the Abarth and I never planned to have a stock car anyways. After a tune is sorted, the 500T and the Abarth will really not be all that different. Suspension, clutch and a tune. Wham. I viewed it the other way around when I bought mine. If I wasn't going to mod, I'd have bought an Abarth.

luka
12-19-2013, 02:15 AM
I had a 500t and went to an abarth.

zyxelenator
12-19-2013, 02:48 AM
Kidding aside, I picked up the 500T because I reckoned that a tune and maybe a couple parts would be all that were needed to match the Abarth and I never planned to have a stock car anyways. After a tune is sorted, the 500T and the Abarth will really not be all that different. Suspension, clutch and a tune. Wham. I viewed it the other way around when I bought mine. If I wasn't going to mod, I'd have bought an Abarth.
Exactly what i though when were buying mine. Did not really want to pay extra thousands for scorpions if I were going to mod and expected tunes to be available soon to erase soft difference between the 2.
So if with stage 1 Abarth will be 200hp and 230tq (to lazy to look up exact tq #s) like John said, and 500T 200/200 and T being 100 lbs lighter, I would say it will be tie. Or very very close. Which I hope will be true, and for sure stage 1 the T will troll stock Abarths pretty bad, not mentioning civics, sentras and other ricer cars where teenagers like to put big wings and fart cans trying to race everyone.

opiateESP
12-19-2013, 03:52 AM
Exactly what i though when were buying mine. Did not really want to pay extra thousands for scorpions if I were going to mod and expected tunes to be available soon to erase soft difference between the 2.
So if with stage 1 Abarth will be 200hp and 230tq (to lazy to look up exact tq #s) like John said, and 500T 200/200 and T being 100 lbs lighter, I would say it will be tie. Or very very close. Which I hope will be true, and for sure stage 1 the T will troll stock Abarths pretty bad, not mentioning civics, sentras and other ricer cars where teenagers like to put big wings and fart cans trying to race everyone.

I reckon the extra 30 wtq will push the tuned Abarth's nose past a tuned 500T. That said, I'll GLADLY buy a clutch, stay lighter and have 200/230.

tknospdr
12-19-2013, 08:23 AM
I bought the T because at the time my credit score said 'Sorry Charlie' on the Abarth.
I didn't plan on really doing much with it at all. Then I accidentally found this site.

So actually, it's all you guy's faults that I now want to spend all this money. I say you all chip in and buy me an upgraded clutch as an apology!

:)

shagghie
12-19-2013, 02:19 PM
This reminds me of my old 337 GTi. It was always a close race between it and the R32 crowd, depending on mods, tires, and the temperature outside it could go either way every time. I ended up liking the lighter weight of the 337, at the expense of a boring exhaust note compared to the R32, and of course, AWD.

opiateESP
12-19-2013, 03:20 PM
This reminds me of my old 337 GTi. It was always a close race between it and the R32 crowd, depending on mods, tires, and the temperature outside it could go either way every time. I ended up liking the lighter weight of the 337, at the expense of a boring exhaust note compared to the R32, and of course, AWD.

Yup, I can see that! The cars are far more similar that the 337/R32 but none the less, yes!

I'm gunning for you Abarth guys. I'm coming for you!!!!!

Abarth Phreak
12-20-2013, 12:20 AM
I'm gunning for you Abarth guys. I'm coming for you!!!!!

A Boxster is a Porshe, but it will NEVER be a 911...jestera

opiateESP
12-20-2013, 01:41 AM
A Boxster is a Porshe, but it will NEVER be a 911...jestera

Do I need to insert more angry hulk references :P

... and a boxster is BARELY a Porsche :D

Tweak
12-20-2013, 02:17 AM
Do I need to insert more angry hulk references :P

... and a boxster is BARELY a Porsche :D

It does however look really nice and as of late the S models seem to have rather impressive abilities compared to older models at least.
http://www.roadandtrack.com/cm/roadandtrack/images/FS/2013-porsche-boxster-s-3.jpg

opiateESP
12-20-2013, 02:21 AM
It does however look really nice and as of late the S models seem to have rather impressive abilities compared to older models at least.
http://www.roadandtrack.com/cm/roadandtrack/images/FS/2013-porsche-boxster-s-3.jpg

I'm just stuck in my mid 2000's thinking :D

Tweak
12-20-2013, 02:26 AM
I'm just stuck in my mid 2000's thinking :D

Back in early and mid 2000's it was an entirely different car, the newer 13 and esp 14 model are more like a true supercar and make the older models look pretty bad. I'm not all that knowledgeable or up to speed on Porsche but I do recall what I have read of them then and now and it is so greatly improved. They keep making them look better and luckily for purchasers they are actually making them better too!

For a quick and possibly not completely accurate idea... quick GoogleFu shows the following.

2000 Boxster review by KBB 1/10
2014 Boxster review by KBB 8.1/10

I did not look any further than that but such a huge difference regardless of the content within there seems an apparent change. :cool:

TorkMe
12-20-2013, 06:05 PM
Back in early and mid 2000's it was an entirely different car, the newer 13 and esp 14 model are more like a true supercar and make the older models look pretty bad. I'm not all that knowledgeable or up to speed on Porsche but I do recall what I have read of them then and now and it is so greatly improved. They keep making them look better and luckily for purchasers they are actually making them better too!

For a quick and possibly not completely accurate idea... quick GoogleFu shows the following.

2000 Boxster review by KBB 1/10
2014 Boxster review by KBB 8.1/10

I did not look any further than that but such a huge difference regardless of the content within there seems an apparent change. :cool:

The 911 (996 and 997) markets are what we are looking at next. If we don't manage to get a 4C, it will be a 997 turbo Porsche. When they are getting $6k for an exhaust system in stainless steel and $11k for a full ti' exhaust system... I know that there is some money to be made there! I can build two Porsche exhaust system with the material that it takes to build one Fiat exhaust system. We would be lucky to get $1100 for a Fiat exhaust system. Sure the Porsche exhaust systems are more complex, but no $4,000 more complex, LOL.

TorkMe
12-20-2013, 06:06 PM
And... how cool would it be to have twin GTX30R's with straight pipes on a Porsche making around 800 WHP :sneakiness:

shagghie
12-20-2013, 06:09 PM
And... how cool would it be to have twin GTX30R's with straight pipes on a Porsche making around 800 WHP :sneakiness:

Yawn.

Not small enough = less wicked
$.02

TorkMe
12-20-2013, 06:48 PM
Yawn.

Not small enough = less wicked
$.02

4.2 stroker kit with GTX30R's... that would be a crazy violent set up!!! I just didn't give you all the details, LOL.

Tweak
12-20-2013, 07:10 PM
The 911 (996 and 997) markets are what we are looking at next. If we don't manage to get a 4C, it will be a 997 turbo Porsche. When they are getting $6k for an exhaust system in stainless steel and $11k for a full ti' exhaust system... I know that there is some money to be made there! I can build two Porsche exhaust system with the material that it takes to build one Fiat exhaust system. We would be lucky to get $1100 for a Fiat exhaust system. Sure the Porsche exhaust systems are more complex, but no $4,000 more complex, LOL.

I'd rather see the 4C development for the record. :D

TorkMe
12-21-2013, 04:19 PM
I'd rather see the 4C development for the record. :D

That makes two of us, but getting a car is turning out to be very difficult. Still working the dealer managers to see if we can get our hands on one.

Abarth Phreak
12-24-2013, 04:37 AM
It does however look really nice and as of late the S models seem to have rather impressive abilities compared to older models at least.
http://www.roadandtrack.com/cm/roadandtrack/images/FS/2013-porsche-boxster-s-3.jpg

Great posted Pic Tweak...yes that car is good looking NOW. I would rock one as a starter Porsche....but I would only want one long enough to get a 911 when I wanted more. Motor Trend did a nice Boxster review awhile back also. The numbers put it in the Best Bang for the Buck territory.

Terriblewone
12-24-2013, 01:15 PM
The 911 (996 and 997) markets are what we are looking at next. If we don't manage to get a 4C, it will be a 997 turbo Porsche. Sure the Porsche exhaust systems are more complex, but no $4,000 more complex, LOL.

I was about to talk about how much work goes into designing the primary and secondary lengths such that resonance takes place... then I realized you said it was a turbo porsche... pretty much easy mode vs NA. If people are getting 6k for header back then thats mental money. For 11k it better be inconel and not ti!

Tweak
12-24-2013, 01:21 PM
Great posted Pic Tweak...yes that car is good looking NOW. I would rock one as a starter Porsche....but I would only want one long enough to get a 911 when I wanted more. Motor Trend did a nice Boxster review awhile back also. The numbers put it in the Best Bang for the Buck territory.

"starter Porsche", great way to look at it, with these most recent models they look stunning and perform amazingly well compared to what might be expected. Since I'm too poor for one my Abarth will have to be my only "super car" unless you also want to count the old ('99FRC) Vette .

Reggie
12-24-2013, 05:27 PM
I was about to talk about how much work goes into designing the primary and secondary lengths such that resonance takes place... then I realized you said it was a turbo porsche... pretty much easy mode vs NA. If people are getting 6k for header back then thats mental money. For 11k it better be inconel and not ti!

Ti' systems are $11k and that is for a brand name systems. There are a few $6k systems on the market in Ti' but they mandrel bent... and for those that know, you cannot mandrel bend A2 Ti' in thin wall.s

mr_robs
12-24-2013, 08:16 PM
Great posted Pic Tweak...yes that car is good looking NOW. I would rock one as a starter Porsche....but I would only want one long enough to get a 911 when I wanted more. Motor Trend did a nice Boxster review awhile back also. The numbers put it in the Best Bang for the Buck territory.

I'm waiting for the 2 liter 4 cylinder turbocharged flat 4 variant to come out. Can you say, amazing tuning and mid engine RWD subaru? Plus the new Cayman is one of the best looking cars on the road right now if you ask me.

Abarth Phreak
12-24-2013, 10:47 PM
I'm waiting for the 2 liter 4 cylinder turbocharged flat 4 variant to come out. Can you say, amazing tuning and mid engine RWD subaru? Plus the new Cayman is one of the best looking cars on the road right now if you ask me.

Yessir. ( I had mentioned Boxster, but would rather not have convertible - Cayman FTW!) It is amazing that they threw so much attention into making their entry level car a true performance car. Props...)