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Fiat500USA
12-14-2013, 05:40 PM
One of the great things about this board are the intelligent, diverse and interesting members we are lucky to have here. Our passion for our cars gives us a lot to talk about and sometimes that can tend to lead some astray when they get caught up in a discussion. To make it easier for those members to get back on track, we are implementing the infraction system that is built into vBulletin. This is a list of standard forum etiquette and reminds members that they are part of a community and their actions are negatively impacting the enjoyment of others.

Below is a list of some of the behaviors that can disrupt the flow of ideas, information and the fun of being here. Each infraction has a point value. Members violating these rules will get an infraction and the corresponding point. Three points accumulated within the allotted time frame, and you'll get banned for 2 weeks. Five points will get a 30 day ban. Depending on the severity of the violation and if that option is available, you may first get a warning at the discretion of the staff. You may also be issued multiple infractions at one time. Because we are adults here, this is going to be three strikes (or points), and you're out. Tweak and I will administer the infraction system.

It should be noted that most if not all these rules have always been in effect but would previously require writing out a long message to the member describing the violation. In the past an informal system worked OK, but with the forum growing immensely a more efficient method is needed. Now the automated system sends out a message along with a note from the staff and the member can use the list to see where they went astray. This also helps the staff better track what is going on without relying on numerous PMs amongst themselves.




Title
Points
Expires
Warning


Baiting/Trolling
1
13 Day(s)



Harassment
1
13 Day(s)



Ignoring Classified Rules
1
13 Day(s)



Inappropriate Language/Image
1
13 Day(s)



Thread Crapping/Insulting
1
13 Day(s)



Non-compliance
1
30 Day(s)



Reported Post Abuse
1
13 Day(s)



Signature Rule Violation
1
13 Day(s)



Unwanted Competing Vendor Post
1
13 Day(s)



Vendor Attacking Competing Product
1
13 Day(s)



Disrespecting Forum Staff
3
30 Day(s)



Posting Personal Information
3
13 Day(s)



PM Abuse
6
30 Day(s)



Fake Account
7
Never



Custom Infraction

Reason
Points
Expires


Baiting/Trolling
Baiting= deliberately annoying or taunting someone. Trolling= submit a deliberately provocative posting to an online message board with the aim of inciting an angry response. This isn't high school. Don't waste people's time with this.

Harassment
Following members or vendors around the forum and continuing to hammer them disrupts the community. You've made your point, now move on. Don't like someone? Use the ignore button or take the high road and don't respond.

Ignoring Classified Rules
The classified rules are a sticky in the classified section and are there to protect everyone from fly-bi-nites. Have a question or extenuating circumstance? Contact the forum staff before breaking the rules.

Inappropriate Language/Image
Let's keep it clean. A lot of people are goofing off from work while they are on this site. Their boss is watching, so don't let them get caught!

Thread Crapping/Insulted Other Member(s)
Make your point without name calling. This includes "Thread Crapping" or ruining another member's thread simply because you disagree or do not care about the topic of the thread. Posting something like "who cares" or "dumb idea" adds nothing positive to the forum, leads to petty bickering and derails threads. It is simple, have some courtesy and respect. Being a jerk takes away from people's enjoyment of the forum so take a break from the keyboard before you post something that will make you look dumb.

Non-compliance
Ignoring the requests of the staff will get you this long term (30 day) infraction. This infraction is stackable, that means if another non-compliance infraction is issued, another 30 days will be added after the first infraction expires. Don't get this one.

Reported Post Abuse
Those who repeatedly stir up trouble, get burned and then want the staff to put out the fire are eligible for this infraction.

Signature Rule Violation
As per the forum rules, links to your business or competing sites are not allowed in your signature. Contact the administrator if you have a question.

Unwanted Competing Vendor Post
This is for vendors. It is not a good idea to post in other vendors threads or forum unless asked or ok'd by the OP.

Vendor Attacking Competing Product or Competitor
The best practice for a vendor is to compete on and discuss the strengths of their product, company, customer service, etc. Bad mouthing competitor's products or the actual competitor does not work here and will get you a needless infraction.

Posting Personal Information
Maliciously posting personal information to cause harm, embarrass someone or without permission will get you banned. This includes posting contents of someone's Private Message against their wishes. This is not your personal website where you get even with people or companies.

Disrespecting Forum Staff
The moderators and the administrator here work very hard to be considerate and respectful of all the members. They deserve the same consideration. When they make a decision, though, it needs to be complied with even if you don't agree with it. Openly (or via a PM) disrespecting or abusing the staff will get you this 3 point infraction.

PM Abuse
Abusing the Private Message system by spamming, sending unwanted messages or for soliciting is strictly forbidden.

Fake Account
Creating a fake or duplicate account is against the rules of the forum. Malicious activity is investigated and with todays technology it is easy to find these accounts. The fake and original account will be banned, so don't do it.

Custom Infraction
This is used for any negative behavior that will harm the community that doesn't fall into the above categories or is so grievous that immediate action is required.

The vast majority of members will never bump into any of these rules. For those who do, it is sincerely hoped that these "reminders" will help folks take pause before they do something that is not beneficial to themselves or the community. We are lucky that we have fun and exciting cars, let's spend our energy doing something constructive and not just creating noise that will drown out the enjoyment.

Read more:
Read Before Posting - General Rules and Guidelines for posting on Fiat 500 USA Forum (http://www.fiat500usaforum.com/showthread.php?4146-General-Rules-and-Guidelines-for-posting-on-Fiat-500-USA-Forum)

The right is reserved to alter, subtract or add to these infraction rules in any way seen fit by the Administrator. Questions ? Contact the Administrator.

FTY
12-14-2013, 06:11 PM
Not sure if I agree with this. I think its good for Vendors but not the members. I think all this does is protect the vendors. Without members the Vendors don't exist.

Glad you took the time to invest some thought into this but I fear this will silence some folks and turn people off regarding the site, which is the last thing Id like to see happen.

Just some friendly advice. If this is posted improperly or don't want this here and since the thread isn't locked or closed I figured you may want a little discussion on the subject. No disrespect intended.

-Chris

Tweak
12-14-2013, 06:19 PM
Not sure if I agree with this. I think its good for Vendors but not the members. I think all this does is protect the vendors. Without members the Vendors don't exist.

Glad you took the time to invest some thought into this but I fear this will silence some folks and turn people off regarding the site, which is the last thing Id like to see happen.

Just some friendly advice. If this is posted improperly or don't want this here and since the thread isn't locked or closed I figured you may want a little discussion on the subject. No disrespect intended.

-Chris

What are the problem areas Chris?

I'm sure things can be revised but honestly this wouldn't really even be required if people use common courtesy and common sense before making most of their posts.

MikeThinks
12-14-2013, 06:19 PM
Awesome! And to avoid any possible infraction I will ignore the fact that I can now safely tell someone how I really feel twice every two weeks :) I did notice that posting pictures of your Fiat with Hello Kitty stickers on it is missing....forgivable oversight I suppose.

Tweak
12-14-2013, 06:23 PM
Awesome! And to avoid any possible infraction I will ignore the fact that I can now safely tell someone how I really feel twice every two weeks :) I did notice that posting pictures of your Fiat with Hello Kitty stickers on it is missing....forgivable oversight I suppose.

Thanks, hopefully it will help get the forum on track, sad it must come to this though. Oh, and you can tell them every hour if you like, just do it in the proper manner.

As for Hello Kitty, should be an automatic permanent ban, no questions asked. :D

Fiat500USA
12-14-2013, 06:28 PM
How can following common forum etiquette be a bad thing? It wasn't invented here, folks. It is what the majority of members do here on a daily bases and is common to most forums.

If someone feels compelled to call names, curse, harass or do all the other things listed above I can safely say the majority of those here will not miss this person.

modular
12-14-2013, 06:39 PM
As for Hello Kitty, should be an automatic permanent ban, no questions asked. :D

Does this make me a bad person??

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m203/scottozanne/5433679194_7ee85643c5_z_zps90cfb126.jpg






Tehehehehehe

MikeThinks
12-14-2013, 06:50 PM
8876

Felnus
12-14-2013, 06:59 PM
Good to see this. In my opinion, this is simply setting consequences for forum rules that were already in place. In the past, if rules were violated, Chris or Tweak were saying, "Cool it" or locking threads and deleting posts. Now members or vendors that cannot conduct themselves in a civilized manner will have clear and concise corrective actions applied to their shenanigans. I think Chris has done a good job of making people welcome to play in his sandbox here. But if you are going to throw sand in others eyes, stomp on their toys, and then drop a deuce in the corner, you aren't welcome here. Works for me.

Felnus
12-14-2013, 07:01 PM
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m203/scottozanne/5433679194_7ee85643c5_z_zps90cfb126.jpg


Gahh!!! My eyes!!! The goggles do nothing!!!

ScorpionSkins.com
12-14-2013, 07:08 PM
Does my forum name/signature count for the signature rule violation? I'm not selling anything and it only links to a page with my e-mail address.

rnddude
12-14-2013, 07:18 PM
My rule of thumb on posting has always been....don't say anything about or to anyone that you would not say to them if they were standing right in front of you, and also happen to be bigger than you...

FTY
12-14-2013, 07:35 PM
What are the problem areas Chris?

I'm sure things can be revised but honestly this wouldn't really even be required if people use common courtesy and common sense before making most of their posts.

Agreed regarding the courtesy/common sense.

Problem areas: (In bold)

Disrespecting Forum Staff
The moderators and the administrator here work very hard to be considerate and respectful of all the members. When they make a decision, though, it needs to be complied with even if you don't agree with it. Openly (or via a PM) criticizing or abusing the staff will get you this 3 point infraction

If the staff cant take criticism it doesn't set a good example for other members/vendors. Members should be able to question and criticize admin/staff. Abuse/name calling should not be tolerated. **

Harassment
Following members or vendors around the forum and continuing to hammer them disrupts the community. You've made your point, now move on. Don't like someone? Use the ignore button or take the high road and don't respond.

If the vendor/member will not answer the question it can and should be asked again. Have something to hide?, you shouldn't be here and the Admin shouldn't be responsible for protecting/defending you from a barrage of pertinent questions as long as its done without name calling. Yes they shouldn't be followed around but if the question is pertinent to the thread or multiple threads it should be allowed to be asked more than once, without Admins stepping in.

Everything else is common sense stuff.

In closing I like this place because of the freedom it allows, once I feel boxed in or monitored, feelings of resentment set in, I think many feel the same way. One reason I left the red boards, its overly corporate and there are little to no grey areas and things aren't handled on a case by case basis. Anyways that's my two cents, whether its worth a nickel or zilch that's how I feel and its for the entirety of the community.


** Admin: I have updated the language to make it clearer. Thanks Chris!

Felnus
12-14-2013, 07:44 PM
If the vendor/member will not answer the question it can and should be asked again. Have something to hide?, you shouldn't be here and the Admin shouldn't be responsible for protecting/defending you from a barrage of pertinent questions as long as its done without name calling.

I think the problem arises here when the same question is asked over and over because someone doesn't like the answer they got, or the questions gets asked and answered multiple times and a minor variance in how the question was answered turns into a witch hunt.

FTY
12-14-2013, 07:47 PM
I think the problem arises here when the same question is asked over and over because someone doesn't like the answer they got, or the questions gets asked and answered multiple times and a minor variance in how the question was answered turns into a witch hunt.

Agreed...as long as the minor Variance isn't a major one.

musicsurf
12-14-2013, 07:48 PM
I think the problem arises here when the same question is asked over and over because someone doesn't like the answer they got, or the questions gets asked and answered multiple times and a minor variance in how the question was answered turns into a witch hunt.

If a question is deflected or not answered, and that has happened lately, it should be asked again. The members absolutely deserve a reasonable answer to questions. I absolutely think however, that these questions should be posed in a respectful manner no matter how many times it has to be asked or how the other side chooses to handle themselves when asked repeatedly.

Felnus
12-14-2013, 07:55 PM
If a question is deflected or not answered, and that has happened lately, it should be asked again. The members absolutely deserve a reasonable answer to questions. I absolutely think however, that these questions should be posed in a respectful manner no matter how many times it has to be asked or how the other side chooses to handle themselves when asked repeatedly.


I understand where you are coming from. At the end of the day, I think folks are able to read the forum and decide for themselves whether or not a vendor is being honest. If you don't feel they are, don't buy their products. They won't be around long if nobody is buying their stuff.

musicsurf
12-14-2013, 08:41 PM
I understand where you are coming from. At the end of the day, I think folks are able to read the forum and decide for themselves whether or not a vendor is being honest. If you don't feel they are, don't buy their products. They won't be around long if nobody is buying their stuff.

I agree with you for the most part, but people and vendors especially need to be held accountable. New members come in and are not likely to dig through posts that are pages long, and if there is something worth addressing with any vendor, it's going to benefit those people to better understand the situation. I play a small roll in a company that is soon to be a vendor here and what I'm saying applies to us too. I would expect someone to question me if I said things that don't line up with what I've said in the past, and if I failed to answer the question fully or in a way that they can understand, to ask again. Like I said that doesn't just benefit that person, it benefits anyone who doesn't have the full story.

Felnus
12-14-2013, 09:03 PM
I agree with you for the most part, but people and vendors especially need to be held accountable. New members come in and are not likely to dig through posts that are pages long, and if there is something worth addressing with any vendor, it's going to benefit those people to better understand the situation. I play a small roll in a company that is soon to be a vendor here and what I'm saying applies to us too. I would expect someone to question me if I said things that don't line up with what I've said in the past, and if I failed to answer the question fully or in a way that they can understand, to ask again. Like I said that doesn't just benefit that person, it benefits anyone who doesn't have the full story.

Agreed. But I also believe there is a very clear line between clarification and harassment. And there has been way too much of the latter recently, in my opinion. I also think that if you are making changes to your vehicle with aftermarket parts and not doing your due diligence as far as researching the parts and the providers involved then any negatives that arise from your choices rest with you. Finally, bear in mind that reputations and opinions of a product or people(good or ill) may have been earned at a given point in time but circumstances may have changed.

Fiat500USA
12-14-2013, 09:22 PM
What are the problem areas Chris?

I'm sure things can be revised but honestly this wouldn't really even be required if people use common courtesy and common sense before making most of their posts.

Agreed regarding the courtesy/common sense.

Problem areas: (In bold)

Disrespecting Forum Staff
The moderators and the administrator here work very hard to be considerate and respectful of all the members. When they make a decision, though, it needs to be complied with even if you don't agree with it. Openly (or via a PM) criticizing or abusing the staff will get you this 3 point infraction

If the staff cant take criticism it doesn't set a good example for other members/vendors. Members should be able to question and criticize admin/staff. Abuse/name calling should not be tolerated.

I agree with you, so let me elaborate on this.

If you look this up, this is a standard rule on nearly every infraction list on any forum. No one is talking about respectful discussion or asking questions or voicing opinions. What we are talking about is repeatedly harassing and / or threatening the staff. I have spent too much time dealing with abusive and threatening emails and messages. I don't want the staff to deal with that nor can I afford to waste my precious time dealing with this anymore. I have a pretty thick skin, and it has been shown that I let people express themselves, however it has been proven that there are those who don't care and have no compunction to act civilly. That is what the rule is for.

** I have updated the language used for the rule to make it clearer. Thanks for the heads up!



Harassment
Following members or vendors around the forum and continuing to hammer them disrupts the community. You've made your point, now move on. Don't like someone? Use the ignore button or take the high road and don't respond.


If the vendor/member will not answer the question it can and should be asked again. Have something to hide?, you shouldn't be here and the Admin shouldn't be responsible for protecting/defending you from a barrage of pertinent questions as long as its done without name calling. Yes they shouldn't be followed around but if the question is pertinent to the thread or multiple threads it should be allowed to be asked more than once, without Admins stepping in.

Again, no problem. We are talking about harassment, which becomes obvious to those on the outside.


Everything else is common sense stuff.

You and I would think so. However, there are those in the world that don't see it that way, that is why these rules, which are the same on the countless sites I researched, were posted. They are nothing new and nothing unique here. They have been instituted all over the internet because of what human nature is. These were always here but now they are posted for the benefit of everyone. On the back end, they let Tweak and I keep track of things more efficiently, too.


In closing I like this place because of the freedom it allows, once I feel boxed in or monitored, feelings of resentment set in, I think many feel the same way. One reason I left the red boards, its overly corporate and there are little to no grey areas and things aren't handled on a case by case basis. Anyways that's my two cents, whether its worth a nickel or zilch that's how I feel and its for the entirety of the community.

Yes, I have and will continue to have a lot of freedom on this site. However, with this freedom comes the responsibility of all to keep chaos from happening and I am doing my part. Happily most here post in socially responsible ways and they will never even notice these rules. For those that have issues, the rules serve as reminders to help them get back on track.

Tweak
12-14-2013, 09:31 PM
Does this make me a bad person??

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m203/scottozanne/5433679194_7ee85643c5_z_zps90cfb126.jpg






Tehehehehehe

Yes, very. :p


Good to see this. In my opinion, this is simply setting consequences for forum rules that were already in place. In the past, if rules were violated, Chris or Tweak were saying, "Cool it" or locking threads and deleting posts. Now members or vendors that cannot conduct themselves in a civilized manner will have clear and concise corrective actions applied to their shenanigans. I think Chris has done a good job of making people welcome to play in his sandbox here. But if you are going to throw sand in others eyes, stomp on their toys, and then drop a deuce in the corner, you aren't welcome here. Works for me.

Many...make that too many chances have been given and people take advantage of this hence the need for change, you make and state things very well here David, thank you.


Does my forum name/signature count for the signature rule violation? I'm not selling anything and it only links to a page with my e-mail address.

I think you are probably alright but really Chris would be the one to make the call for something like this.


Agreed regarding the courtesy/common sense.

Problem areas: (In bold)

Disrespecting Forum Staff
The moderators and the administrator here work very hard to be considerate and respectful of all the members. When they make a decision, though, it needs to be complied with even if you don't agree with it. Openly (or via a PM) criticizing or abusing the staff will get you this 3 point infraction

If the staff cant take criticism it doesn't set a good example for other members/vendors. Members should be able to question and criticize admin/staff. Abuse/name calling should not be tolerated.

Harassment
Following members or vendors around the forum and continuing to hammer them disrupts the community. You've made your point, now move on. Don't like someone? Use the ignore button or take the high road and don't respond.

If the vendor/member will not answer the question it can and should be asked again. Have something to hide?, you shouldn't be here and the Admin shouldn't be responsible for protecting/defending you from a barrage of pertinent questions as long as its done without name calling. Yes they shouldn't be followed around but if the question is pertinent to the thread or multiple threads it should be allowed to be asked more than once, without Admins stepping in.

Everything else is common sense stuff.

In closing I like this place because of the freedom it allows, once I feel boxed in or monitored, feelings of resentment set in, I think many feel the same way. One reason I left the red boards, its overly corporate and there are little to no grey areas and things aren't handled on a case by case basis. Anyways that's my two cents, whether its worth a nickel or zilch that's how I feel and its for the entirety of the community.

I really think he mainly meant being disrespectful here although it reads differently. I have stated several times I appreciate input from others but as of late the way many have conducted themselves is not acceptable.
I am all about asking a question of a vendor and expecting an answer but regardless of how much you like or dislike them or their products or even tactics you have to still ask in a way that deserves and answer and not harass someone and disrupt the forum. I get reported posts and PMs as of late about the behavior that is creating more issues than it is resolving. I do try to handle and chat with people about the problem almost always (as I think you are aware) and handle situations on a case by case basis.


If a question is deflected or not answered, and that has happened lately, it should be asked again. The members absolutely deserve a reasonable answer to questions. I absolutely think however, that these questions should be posed in a respectful manner no matter how many times it has to be asked or how the other side chooses to handle themselves when asked repeatedly.

Exactly, answers should be given no doubt, but the lack of respect especially as of late has not been going well for those asking and answering, it'll required work on both sides obviously.


Agreed. But I also believe there is a very clear line between clarification and harassment. And there has been way too much of the latter recently, in my opinion. I also think that if you are making changes to your vehicle with aftermarket parts and not doing your due diligence as far as researching the parts and the providers involved then any negatives that arise from your choices rest with you. Finally, bear in mind that reputations and opinions of a product or people(good or ill) may have been earned at a given point in time but circumstances may have changed.

"very clear line between clarification and harassment"

Exactly and a major reason this entire post and the ideas behind it had to be put up as a reminder to people to act like adults and show maturity, when you make posts claiming you want answers and believe people deserve them that's great but when your fellow members are reporting your posts and sending PMs about you it becomes obvious it has been taken too far. This has been a fun place and can be again but the lack of respect and maturity isn't helping at all. Chris and I have spoken and there really isn't but so much either of us can do to try to make everyone happy.

redred
12-14-2013, 10:35 PM
How are infractions imposed? Can a member or vendor see how many they have in their profile settings? Can other members see how many infractions you may (or may not) have or is it private between forum staff and the offending member?

BigT
12-15-2013, 12:14 AM
https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/3086071296/h0ADE3BE9/

Tweak
12-15-2013, 12:16 AM
How are infractions imposed? Can a member or vendor see how many they have in their profile settings? Can other members see how many infractions you may (or may not) have or is it private between forum staff and the offending member?

Chris likely has to answer but I think it is only seen by the person with the infraction and staff. I do think those that get one can view it of course, Chris can confirm (or not) better than I can on this specific topic.

Fiat500USA
12-15-2013, 12:34 AM
How are infractions imposed? Can a member or vendor see how many they have in their profile settings? Can other members see how many infractions you may (or may not) have or is it private between forum staff and the offending member?

Folks that had an issue will receive a message telling them the problem and if it is a warning or a point assigned. In the testing I did, it is private and not displayed, unless banned.

Abarth Phreak
12-15-2013, 02:33 AM
I support this implementation. I know the Ban Stick will be used on occasion...unfortunate but necessary from time to time as this is a community.

In regards to the Hello Kitty Mobile....dang I just spent the last 7 hours at my nieces 3rd B-Day party...themed Hello Kitty. That car actually pisses me off. Which rule is that Chris? :tears_of_joy:

TorkMe
12-16-2013, 04:31 PM
I support this implementation. I know the Ban Stick will be used on occasion...unfortunate but necessary from time to time as this is a community.


As this forum grows we are going to see un-desirable's make there way onto the boards, its going to happen. The ban stick is not a tool of discouragement, its to remove the problems from those that enjoy the forums. This is why every big forum has a point system in place. Still till this day I remember members that go into arguments with the admin, and created several accounts due to being banned. The admin had to resort to IP ban's because of some members just being relentless and wanting to get their "two words in". Yes, its a community, yes we all have our opinion... but in the end its the admins decision to do as they please. Even if we don't agree with it, its is their forum and they can police it anyway they see fit. I highly doubt we will ever see a hierarchy in place for the administration staff but the members may feel singled out or indifferent because of decisions that were made.

In the end... it will make the forum a better place where we can all share our opinions, cars and enjoy what everyone has to say!

Tweak
12-16-2013, 10:14 PM
In the end... it will make the forum a better place where we can all share our opinions, cars and enjoy what everyone has to say!

This is the idea and hope, banning is a last resort and I rarely find the need for it personally...but that will be decided by those making posts and how they decide to conduct themselves. I'm about as laid back as they come but sometimes enough is just enough.

Lil Blue
12-16-2013, 10:21 PM
Does this make me a bad person??

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m203/scottozanne/5433679194_7ee85643c5_z_zps90cfb126.jpg


I showed this to my wife....she liked it. She does have a small Hello kitty collection. I'm doomed.

Tweak
12-16-2013, 10:30 PM
i showed this to my wife....she liked it. She does have a small hello kitty collection. I'm doomed.

please don't!!!

Abarth Phreak
12-16-2013, 11:27 PM
I showed this to my wife....she liked it. She does have a small Hello kitty collection. I'm doomed.



Ban him Tweak!!!!! BAN BAN BAN (At least for an hour?)

Lil Blue
12-17-2013, 06:55 AM
please don't!!!

May not have much of choice...she is the boss, and she scares the crap out of me. Fortunately she's happy with Lil Blue just the way it is.

msjulie33
12-17-2013, 10:36 AM
May not have much of choice...she is the boss, and she scares the crap out of me.

love that! :)

Andree
12-17-2013, 11:09 AM
I showed this to my wife....she liked it. She does have a small Hello kitty collection. I'm doomed.

I like the shade of pink, personally. I wouldn't head into Hello Kitty zone myself, but I was once tempted 20 years ago with a pink vacuum at Sanrio. Most people I see in public loving Hello Kitty are little kids. But there is some market for it among teens and "adult" women. Consider it a particular group's own Abarth Scorpion badge, and you'll get the idea. Like here: http://www.fiat500usaforum.com/showthread.php?13110-reflective-black!!&p=645122&viewfull=1#post645122

I definitely like the idea of personalized cars, in whatever color the heart's desire. Our Fiats can take any color anyone can think up, and look good.

DIVSAbarth500
12-17-2013, 01:30 PM
Generally, it appears that most of this infraction list is spot-on and falls under the category of pure common sense. My only concern is there seem to be a few grey areas in the infractions where subjectivity may replace objectivity in deciding infraction points. However, that remains to be seen as this system is implemented.

I can only speak for myself but I will do my best to keep this list in mind at all times while participating.................

Abarth Phreak
12-22-2013, 03:36 AM
So, in the past few days since this infraction system has been posted I have seen several violations that have gone unchecked. I understand the comment made about not "micro-managing", but blatant and inappropriate language, trolling and harassment seems to be continuing well beyond a micro level. I would advise a realignment on this thread's topic.

Andree
12-22-2013, 04:59 AM
So, in the past few days since this infraction system has been posted I have seen several violations that have gone unchecked. I understand the comment made about not "micro-managing", but blatant and inappropriate language, trolling and harassment seems to be continuing well beyond a micro level. I would advise a realignment on this thread's topic.

There can always be discussions on the various things via PM, where you can point out what you think is not good to Fiat500USA. And then Chris can look at it, and check with the original poster to clarify or discuss.

I haven't tried out the multiple recipient PM options, but everyone could be included in the conversation as needed.

People have their own perceptions of what is and isn't appropriate, and we differ on where the line is drawn.

I remember years back getting "in trouble" for blatantly trolling. Well, that's how several people saw it. They were wrong. I was trying to be helpful. The area of discrepency centered around a term I took literally (as I tend to do) which turned out to be some kind of drug equipment slang. I was so embarrassed to learn I misunderstood, and I guess everyone but me knew what was being discussed. I really didn't know.

I was one of those kids in class that did not shut up. I wanted to know everything. I still do. If I get a bone to chew on, I'll keep at it, like one time I was determined to find a wallpaper pattern for someone, and spent 11 solid hours looking at webpages. I found it. All I had was a picture to go on. And no knowledge of wallpaper.

That's persistence for a good thing, but we've all had feelings of "this thing isn't over yet" that will affect others negatively. Sometimes there isn't a cut and dried finish. Endless grudge match. Human nature.

Andree
12-22-2013, 05:00 AM
P.S. I hope it's not me.

Tweak
12-22-2013, 10:37 AM
So, in the past few days since this infraction system has been posted I have seen several violations that have gone unchecked. I understand the comment made about not "micro-managing", but blatant and inappropriate language, trolling and harassment seems to be continuing well beyond a micro level. I would advise a realignment on this thread's topic.

It is a work in progress and be aware Chris and I have been chatting extensively as of late and posts have been removed from public view daily. There are reasons or at least a reason at the current time some things are not yet changed but that should happen sometime soon, several infractions and warnings have also been issued for the record. PMs sent, conversations had, we are making the moves but at this moment we are doing so slowly and figuring out and deciding as we go in an effort to address on a more specific level problems rather than throwing a blanket on things and hoping all is covered. We may not close out the year exactly where we'd like but I think we'll be starting the new year in an improved fashion...just got some sorting out to do yet with some ongoing issues.

Fiat500USA
12-22-2013, 11:50 AM
There is a lot going on behind the scenes here that is out of the public eye. The infraction system is here to guide members to get back on track. I didn't put in effect to get rid of folks I don't agree with or to humiliate people in public. I don't want to silence members that can have something positive to contribute without giving them a chance to get back on track. This is a progressive system, and we're working through it.

Abarth Phreak
12-22-2013, 01:47 PM
Thanks guys for the response. I am not saying ban sticks need to be used, and you are correct, it is not a public system so it will not be seen however there are some things that were not edited appropriately. A good rule of thumb would be if you would not want your children to see the comments if they were looking over your shoulder and quote them on their twitter account they should not be posted here.

I will add that some of these comments and inappropriate behaviors are coming from Vendors, which is not good for business or community trust.

Tweak
12-22-2013, 08:15 PM
Thanks guys for the response. I am not saying ban sticks need to be used, and you are correct, it is not a public system so it will not be seen however there are some things that were not edited appropriately. A good rule of thumb would be if you would not want your children to see the comments if they were looking over your shoulder and quote them on their twitter account they should not be posted here.

I will add that some of these comments and inappropriate behaviors are coming from Vendors, which is not good for business or community trust.

Valid point and it is due to frustrations on both ends, as Chris stated it is ongoing and your comments are appreciated! I think I know exactly what comment you are thinking of and I imagine it was purely due to frustration...doesn't excuse it but I get why some of the posts are happening from both directions. We just need to be respectful and straight up with one another, ask questions - get answers - move on to the next topic. When you are ignored it creates a problem but some things just won't go your way and acting out ends poorly for everyone on the forum and posts get hidden from public view in an effort to maintain order and keep things on track. If you ask a question 3 times and 2 get removed you haven't been "censored", you've just asked too many times and are obviously wasting your time in doing so sadly.

ReconTopher
12-22-2013, 11:02 PM
So... back to this Hello Kitty car. I kind of like it. I certainly wouldn't drive it and I don't think I would be a passenger. But, I wouldn't object if my daughter wanted one someday. *snicker :)

Tweak
12-22-2013, 11:08 PM
So... back to this Hello Kitty car. I kind of like it. I certainly wouldn't drive it and I don't think I would be a passenger. But, I wouldn't object if my daughter wanted one someday. *snicker :)

Just don't have her sign up here. :p

LOL.

Andree
12-22-2013, 11:45 PM
So... back to this Hello Kitty car. I kind of like it. I certainly wouldn't drive it and I don't think I would be a passenger. But, I wouldn't object if my daughter wanted one someday. *snicker :)

I almost posted a link to pink Corvettes that I ran into on another site. But the woman isn't family-friendly. LOL. She IS clothed, but only as required by law. In, it's got to be, Southern California. I don't know what she does, I don't want to know either, as in one photo she is posed under a billboard of herself.

Anyway, her name is Angelyne, the title of the pics is "Pink Tuesday, Angelyne Corvettes Edition" on the site oppositelock.jalopnik.com, you can google it. She has some sort of Barbie doll thing going on there.

Be careful with the Hello Kitty Fiat, it could lead to harder stuff, like the Corvette. Oh my.

Andree
12-22-2013, 11:57 PM
By the way, guys, PINK used to be a manly man color, for boys.

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/arts-culture/When-Did-Girls-Start-Wearing-Pink.html

This has a few others that might surprise you:
http://www.cracked.com/article_19780_5-gender-stereotypes-that-used-to-be-exact-opposite.html

(some vulgarities present for those who wish to know ahead of time, like if you're reading the article out loud to grandkids) heh

Abarth Phreak
12-23-2013, 12:00 AM
So... back to this Hello Kitty car. I kind of like it. I certainly wouldn't drive it and I don't think I would be a passenger. But, I wouldn't object if my daughter wanted one someday. *snicker :)

Have anyone else seen the Barbie Fiat toy yet in the stores? I almost got it for my 3 year old niece...but she doesn't seem to be into Barbie yet. There is a real version also.


https://www.google.com/search?q=Barbie+Fiat+500&tbm=isch&source=iu&imgil=1RXrTiWDdXxvpM%253A%253Bhttps%253A%252F%252F encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com%252Fimages%253Fq%253Dtbn%253AANd9 GcRGywvRc7jO4lr614KTz82NMFoExrQN_5GlcA21EawScJuvPO l5%253B1500%253B1003%253BXtgCDU7ZUvVB-M%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.carscoops.com%2 5252F2009%25252F04%25252Fpinked-out-barbie-500-tours-fiat.html&sa=X&ei=6rS3UvmWIc31oATgtICQAg&ved=0CEcQ9QEwAg&biw=1455&bih=665#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=SRrfG_iPQxIsnM%3A%3BTucxy4y76_AZZM%3Bhttp%25 3A%252F%252Fwww.blogcdn.com%252Fgreen.autoblog.com %252Fmedia%252F2009%252F04%252Fbarbie-fiat-500-580px.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fgreen.autoblog.com% 252F2009%252F04%252F06%252Fbarbies-fiat-500-comes-to-london-crystals-and-pink-lipstick-at%252F%3B580%3B349

Tweak
12-23-2013, 12:13 AM
I almost posted a link to pink Corvettes that I ran into on another site. But the woman isn't family-friendly. LOL. She IS clothed, but only as required by law. In, it's got to be, Southern California. I don't know what she does, I don't want to know either, as in one photo she is posed under a billboard of herself.

Anyway, her name is Angelyne, the title of the pics is "Pink Tuesday, Angelyne Corvettes Edition" on the site oppositelock.jalopnik.com, you can google it. She has some sort of Barbie doll thing going on there.

Be careful with the Hello Kitty Fiat, it could lead to harder stuff, like the Corvette. Oh my.


Eh, NO NO NO, BAD GOOGLE!!! This is one search I could have done without.

Lil Blue
12-23-2013, 08:00 AM
I almost posted a link to pink Corvettes that I ran into on another site. But the woman isn't family-friendly. LOL. She IS clothed, but only as required by law. In, it's got to be, Southern California. I don't know what she does, I don't want to know either, as in one photo she is posed under a billboard of herself.

Anyway, her name is Angelyne, the title of the pics is "Pink Tuesday, Angelyne Corvettes Edition" on the site oppositelock.jalopnik.com, you can google it. She has some sort of Barbie doll thing going on there.

Be careful with the Hello Kitty Fiat, it could lead to harder stuff, like the Corvette. Oh my.

Oh gawd...I just had to look....my eyes my eyes

Andree
12-23-2013, 09:21 AM
Hahahahaha, I haven't done a Google search for it, so I don't know what else comes up, just something I ran into on Jalopnik the other day. I do like the first one, the older curvy style. I don't care for the "sat on a shoe box" look of the other models.

I like the light shade on the Mary Kay pink Cadillac vehicles. Elvis had a light pink Cadillac too (I think it was for his mom).

A few safe for anywhere pink car pics, including a bubblegum pink classic Fiat: http://automobileandamericanlife.blogspot.com/2012/08/think-pink-some-pink-cars-that-mary-kay.html

I like that Nissan Micra, that's a great color for the tiny car. Sort of what I want to see a Fiat looking like, as a two-seater convertible. Of the colors on that link, I like the super light color, that's not PINK! but more subtle, washed pinky-peachy-apricot color. That would be a nice color for the Fiat, along with the light green and new blue. Another retro style color.

Andree
12-23-2013, 09:23 AM
Oh gawd...I just had to look....my eyes my eyes

I'm sorry! LOL! I'd get thirty days in the hole for posting that link, I'm pretty sure it's an infraction of the worst kind: Tasteless.

Er, except I like the first, oldest corvette in pink.

Andree
12-23-2013, 09:44 AM
Oh!!!!! Speaking of "Tasteless"...back on topic...

I usually check my links after I've posted them. 99.9% of the time they go exactly where I'd been, to the site that has something to do with cars or a news article, etc. But ONE time here, I'd posted a link, and checked it later, and it was NOT the place I'd been! It somehow redirected me to adult content, with an in-your-face photo. I quickly edited it, and apologized too, just in case anyone else tried the link and was shocked too.

I would not intentionally link to such content in this forum, duh. But things like that do happen, can happen, so hopefully Moderators can keep an eye out for that stuff, and understand that the poster might not even know where the link goes after they post it.

My link was supposed to go to a picture of a car, from some car picture site, and there were NO cars in the picture that I got after trying the link later. I don't know how that is done, but it really chaps my hide. Hacked or something, I don't know.

I try to post links all the time, as I enjoy looking at pictures and reading stories. It's fun to share with others, and I like it when others share too. Just everyone realize that what we expect to come up may not come up once in a blue moon. And I'd rather err on the side of caution and prudishness these days. There are plenty of sites and magazines devoted to surgically-altered women in little clothing in suggestive poses on various automobiles.

This site isn't one of them. I like this site because it is family-friendly. Or work-safe. All the pictures I've seen are something I could show anyone, the posts don't have swearing. It keeps things calm. A pleasant place to be.

DIVSAbarth500
12-24-2013, 12:22 AM
If you ask a question 3 times and 2 get removed you haven't been "censored", you've just asked too many times and are obviously wasting your time in doing so sadly.

I am assuming this is referring to members questions to vendors, correct? If that is the case, than I may be in the minority (it seems like I usually am on this forum) but this appears to be a potential problem imo. If a vendor can't stand to be asked a question multiple times, then they shouldn't be in the business. These aren't questions about a $2 slice of pizza. This is a $20,000+ car, a huge purchase for most members here, myself included. It is only natural to want to get a legitimate answer regarding aftermarket parts, services, etc.

It is one thing for a member to harass a vendor with questions, but it is another for a member to be persistent if they haven't received a legitimate response to a legitimate question(s). After receiving a response, it is the duty of members to a)accept the response, whether they like it or not and leave it a that or b) ask another legitimate question that is relevant to the answer received and/or the vendor.

All of this is a bit of a grey area but I am sure the Admin/Moderators will find the right balance on this stuff........

Tweak
12-24-2013, 01:29 AM
I am assuming this is referring to members questions to vendors, correct? If that is the case, than I may be in the minority (it seems like I usually am on this forum) but this appears to be a potential problem imo. If a vendor can't stand to be asked a question multiple times, then they shouldn't be in the business. These aren't questions about a $2 slice of pizza. This is a $20,000+ car, a huge purchase for most members here, myself included. It is only natural to want to get a legitimate answer regarding aftermarket parts, services, etc.

It is one thing for a member to harass a vendor with questions, but it is another for a member to be persistent if they haven't received a legitimate response to a legitimate question(s). After receiving a response, it is the duty of members to a)accept the response, whether they like it or not and leave it a that or b) ask another legitimate question that is relevant to the answer received and/or the vendor.

All of this is a bit of a grey area but I am sure the Admin/Moderators will find the right balance on this stuff........

I meant that mainly as take the answer given and deal with it as you've stated as well as when the questioning ends and the harassment begins. I do agree it IS the responsibility of the vendor to do right by the member and respond, doesn't mean it will always happen as so much in life that SHOULD happen does not happen, sad fact of life. It is a bit of a grey area but you expanded on my meaning well, I assumed this would be the way it was taken, forgive me for not being more clear in this instance.

Abarth Five O
12-24-2013, 04:02 AM
Thanks Chris and Tweak for implementing this system. It will help members and vendors be more cognizant and respectful of one another in posting comments and remarks. There may be room for improvement, but certainly this system is a giant step in the right direction to make this a better place for everyone to enjoy and learn about this awesome vehicle.

Tweak
12-24-2013, 01:23 PM
Thanks Chris and Tweak for implementing this system. It will help members and vendors be more cognizant and respectful of one another in posting comments and remarks. There may be room for improvement, but certainly this system is a giant step in the right direction to make this a better place for everyone to enjoy and learn about this awesome vehicle.

Thanks buddy! As with anything a work in progress, hopefully it works out well in the end. I enjoy the forums a great deal and want them to be as good as possible for everyone.