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View Full Version : Car shudders when accelerating in 1st gear....



Goblin
12-12-2013, 08:26 PM
Has anybody else experienced a slight (but noticeable) shudder when accelerating moderately from a stop in 1st gear?
It even happens sometimes in 2nd gear as well. Can't put my finger on it, although I thought it might be tire related. (running the stock Pirelli 17")
I recently had the tires rotated, and it made no difference. Any thoughts?

ScorpionSkins.com
12-12-2013, 08:31 PM
It's my opinion that the stock Pirelli PZeros are terrible tires and I've had horrible vibration issues for quite some time now despite necessary rotation and perfect alignment. I've been fighting the issue and Pirelli refuses to replace them under warranty. The vibration I'm experiencing from the tires is low resonance and winds up and down in frequency with speed.

If your car is literally shuddering, it may be indicative of an entirely different issue all together. Have the studio look the issue over is the best I can suggest, and keep us updated!

DuckDodgers
12-12-2013, 10:00 PM
TSX's had a problem with acceleration shuddering during certain speed ranges. It was related to half-shaft/cv joint issues.

Suggestion, next time you get a shudder, lift throttle and see if it disappears or continues. Also, note if it is speed related (certain RPM or speeds) or not.

Since ScorpionSkins issue is both up and down frequency, it isn't that kind of problem and definately sounds like tires or wheels.

ophidia31
12-12-2013, 10:13 PM
Shudder to me means like when you let the clutch out too early and it bogs and shakes. If it was tire/axle related, i would picture that more as a vibration. Those two things can be felt in the pedals/steering wheel and not really the whole car unless its a really really bad axle/tire.

shadyabarth
12-12-2013, 10:46 PM
I recently started to experience this as well although i feel it most when i am part throttling it at low gears aroind 3000 rpms and felt it more after i put the coilovers on..It feels almost like a halfshaft that is out of rounds..

DIVSAbarth500
12-13-2013, 12:31 AM
Hmm. If it is only happening from a 1st gear start and sometimes in 2nd, that doesn't sound tire related to me. It kind of sounds like a clutch problem but I would be very surprised if that is the case. Let us know when you get it checked out

Oh, Word?
12-13-2013, 08:54 AM
I've only noticed this twice. Both times it's happened was when I had to cold start, and by cold I mean 30 degrees or less out (the damn north east got cold quick) and I didn't have time to warm up. In first after the clutch was out I got on the gas and it bucked two or three times at a quarter throttle. Felt just like when someone's learning how to drive standard but it does it those two or three times it never comes back. Basically the two times it's happened was cold start and then getting going in 1st. Never worried me as cars always act funny in the cold.

jguerdat
12-13-2013, 09:18 AM
Just a thought, especially when the ambient is cold, is that it could be tire slip and/or traction control. This implies less than gentle throttle application so if you're just trying to go slow and it happens, it's not likely to be this (unless there's snow or ice).

Goblin
12-13-2013, 03:09 PM
Yeah, I agree that the stock Pirelli's are crappy in all but warm, dry conditions. (looking to upgrade to 215x35x17 in the near future)
I also agree that it could be a tire issue that I'm experiencing, but the shuddering (slight) only happens in 1st and 2nd gear.
I'll most likely take her in to Fiat to get it checked out. (will have to pull the Madness ECU first :) )

Oh, Word?
12-13-2013, 09:02 PM
For me at least it's not a tire or traction issue, I've seen far too many cars blown up from cold starts and high rpm. I don't go past 3-4k until I'm fully warm.

Jester49
12-13-2013, 09:26 PM
Has anybody else experienced a slight (but noticeable) shudder when accelerating moderately from a stop in 1st gear?
It even happens sometimes in 2nd gear as well. Can't put my finger on it, although I thought it might be tire related. (running the stock Pirelli 17")
I recently had the tires rotated, and it made no difference. Any thoughts?

Two things come to mine, 1) clutch glazed over from slipping due to "Riding" the clutch or 2) oil on the clutch due to rear main seal going bad.

jguerdat
12-14-2013, 08:54 AM
Yeah, I agree that the stock Pirelli's are crappy in all but warm, dry conditions. (looking to upgrade to 215x35x17 in the near future)

A bit OT but what 215/35-17s even exist out there? Or did you mean 215/40-17?

jguerdat
12-14-2013, 08:55 AM
For me at least it's not a tire or traction issue, I've seen far too many cars blown up from cold starts and high rpm. I don't go past 3-4k until I'm fully warm.

It's not the rev limit but how much torque is applied. If it's slippery out there, using a heavy foot at 2500 RPM will cause wheelspin that ESC will catch.

Goblin
12-14-2013, 10:05 PM
Tire Rack offers a Hankook Ventus V4 tire in 215x35x17, which is the only one I've found in that size. It's a high-performance all-season tire that might actually fit my lowered car (Neuspeed springs) without rubbing.

NeroHero
02-05-2014, 07:29 PM
Hey Goblin, any or anyone else - any resolution to this issue? I just bought my Abarth on Superbowl Sunday and I think I'm experiencing the same slight vibration at lower revs in first and second. Did it end up being tires or did they find anything at the dealership?

Thanks guys.

Vaejovis carolinanus aka lowconabarth
02-05-2014, 09:13 PM
My Abarth does not have this issue but my 1970 F100 does. I have been told by several top mechanics that the flywheel needs to be resurfaced. I sounds like the same problem to me.

Tweak
02-05-2014, 09:21 PM
Hey Goblin, any or anyone else - any resolution to this issue? I just bought my Abarth on Superbowl Sunday and I think I'm experiencing the same slight vibration at lower revs in first and second. Did it end up being tires or did they find anything at the dealership?

Thanks guys.

Can't help with the vibration but I would like to welcome you to the forum!

NeroHero
02-06-2014, 03:31 AM
Can't help with the vibration but I would like to welcome you to the forum!

Thanks!

Re: the vibration, I might just be nitpicking about the vibration. 99% of the time it actually feels fine, but I might as well take it in.

Tweak
02-06-2014, 12:48 PM
Thanks!

Re: the vibration, I might just be nitpicking about the vibration. 99% of the time it actually feels fine, but I might as well take it in.

Hopefully it is resolved easily for you and soon!

skyx39
02-07-2014, 02:39 PM
I'm noticing the same thing on my 2013 Abarth with less than 2k miles on it. I thought I was imagining it as it only happens in the morning, but now that someone else is feeling the same thing I think something might be going on.

streetsurfer
02-07-2014, 02:55 PM
Tires sitting in the cold can take on flat spots until flex/rotation and raising tire temperatures help work them out. I think you are right to suspect tires as a cause. Could this be what you are feeling?

skyx39
02-12-2014, 08:48 AM
The more I drive it, I think it might just be the tune. My last car was a custom tuned WRX and it was smooth as butter. I've been noticing that there is a little notchiness in all gears at very low throttle. I think its more pronounced during warm up. The vibration from the ****ty Pirellis doesn't help much either.

Fiat500USA
02-12-2014, 10:27 AM
I was thinking that is what you were feeling. The car can surge and the boost can come on and off pretty abruptly at times.

BigT
02-12-2014, 11:16 AM
I have only experienced this when the car is cold. Once it warms up I never have this happen anymore. I usually drive like a granny no sport mode until the 2nd dot on the temp gauge lights up then I throw it in sport mode and drive it like I stole it. No issues as of yet.

zyxelenator
02-12-2014, 12:19 PM
Not the best idea. Oil needs more time to reach operating temp than coolant, usually 15-20 mins. Mine does shudder on low rmp and low throttle if I let clutch to early and I just started it. I try to not go over 3k rpms until coolant temp stops in the middle. Which happens right before I get on hwy ramp (about 5 miles)

TheGonz
02-12-2014, 01:02 PM
I've noticed this same sort of thing on my new Abarth, and I've found it to be temperature related also. It seems worse the lower the temperature is. It's particularly bad when it's below zero degrees.

The "fix" is pretty simple: Start the car and let it idle for a few minutes before driving it. Let the oil warm up just a bit and get a little less thick.

My guess is (and that's all it is based on mere speculation and my understanding of how Multiair works) that since the MultiAir system relies on hydraulic pressure from engine oil to change the opening time of the valves and essentially control the throttle of the engine, when it's super cold and you try driving too soon, that oil is still very thick and may not be flowing into the Multiair "brick" in the most predictable fashion. Since our cars' throttle is basically the multi air system controlling air intake into the combustion chamber, having the oil really cold and thick might interfere with the system somewhat, causing a bit of bucking.

So, by letting the engine run for a few minutes before trying to drive it, I've noticed the problem goes away. Just that little bit of heat to warm the oil a small amount probably makes it flow easier, and makes the Multiair system's job easier.

That's my hypothesis. I'm happy to be proven wrong. But based on observation and owning this car for one month in what has been an unusually cold winter, I've definitely noticed the correlation between length of warmup time and no "bucking" problems.

skyx39
02-13-2014, 10:04 AM
I have only experienced this when the car is cold. Once it warms up I never have this happen anymore. I usually drive like a granny no sport mode until the 2nd dot on the temp gauge lights up then I throw it in sport mode and drive it like I stole it. No issues as of yet.

I would drive for at least 10 minutes before getting on it. Even after the engine reaches operating temperature (halfway up the gauge) the oil is still not at operating temperature. Hitting boost with cold oil can damage the engine.

jguerdat
02-14-2014, 10:09 AM
While generically agree with the above, I also ass-u-me that the engine management knows about this, too, and takes steps to protect the engine while warming up. My old S2000 had a 7k RPM hard limiter when the temp was below 3 bars which would catch newbies out all the time. No blown head gaskets, etc. due to over-enthusiastic driving. I haven't heard/read anything that indicates the Abarth has such safety features but I sure wouldn't be surprised.

skyx39
02-14-2014, 08:33 PM
While generically agree with the above, I also ass-u-me that the engine management knows about this, too, and takes steps to protect the engine while warming up. My old S2000 had a 7k RPM hard limiter when the temp was below 3 bars which would catch newbies out all the time. No blown head gaskets, etc. due to over-enthusiastic driving. I haven't heard/read anything that indicates the Abarth has such safety features but I sure wouldn't be surprised.

An S2000 this is not, and a 7k rpm limiter isn't going to do anything to save an engine if the oil is cold. Also, it's not so much the head gaskets as it is the pistons and everything else that needs lubrication. The oil isn't at its operating temperature, so its not going to flow as it should. The temp gauge is somewhat irrelevant as it doesn't take the oil temperature. The temp gauge will show the car as being warmed up before the oil is. There have been many pistons cracked on turbocharged cars because they were run hard before being warmed up. Also, it won't necessarily kill it right away. it could cause excessive wear which would manifest itself in the engine not lasting as long. This is why everyone should be wary of buying used FI vehicles.

Fiat500USA
02-14-2014, 09:15 PM
.... This is why everyone should be wary of buying used FI vehicles.

Is that F1 or FI as in fuel injected or something else?:confused:

jguerdat
02-15-2014, 09:00 AM
An S2000 this is not, and a 7k rpm limiter isn't going to do anything to save an engine if the oil is cold.

You missed the point completely. It was all about the engine management being set up to protect the owner from himself when the engine isn't warm enough. I have no idea if this car has it built in but was relating how/why it can be done.

ophidia31
02-15-2014, 11:30 AM
You missed the point completely. It was all about the engine management being set up to protect the owner from himself when the engine isn't warm enough. I have no idea if this car has it built in but was relating how/why it can be done.

Yeah, but rpms are rpms. Whether youre making 100hp or 1000hp, the engine is still moving at the same speeds and needs the oil to keep up. Power only relates to the stress on the engine components itself.

mattjk
10-03-2017, 01:40 AM
bumping this back up. My 2016 abarth with 700 miles does this. I get a slight shudder in first gear AFTER the clutch is fully disengaged. Almost feels like the CV's are binding.