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View Full Version : How do you get a 500 Abarth up on 4 jack stands



TopoGrigio
12-03-2013, 03:04 PM
Hi,

I need to get all 4 wheels of a 500 Abarth off the ground for a tire rotation. Does anybody know where to position a jack under the car to first get the rear up parallel, then the front? (Pictures would be awesome.)

Thank you,
TopoGrigio

Tweak
12-03-2013, 03:19 PM
Welcome to the forum.

Best I can offer at the moment...

Says Euro in the link but I think it applies, read the text on the image before making any attempts.

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-nBn28032BCY/TaPKnrM_OjI/AAAAAAAAF7w/yCNM7DAsd34_73zz6UpB8m_rJFINJ3SswCPcB/s640/Fiat500USA-500_Jacking-PointsEuro.jpg

rnddude
12-03-2013, 03:52 PM
three floor jacks, two for the front, one for the rear.

shadyabarth
12-03-2013, 04:14 PM
What I find with the Abarth is if you jack up one side from either the front jacking point or the rear jacking point BOTH tires come off the ground..Just do it 2 at a time..

Ryephile
12-03-2013, 05:58 PM
three floor jacks, two for the front, one for the rear.

Unsafe as hell. It's your safety, but relying on the hydraulics to keep the car elevated is foolish at best. Floor jacks do not have safety catches like a Rotary Lift et al.

Use the front side jack point [crush seam] to lift the whole side of the car. Sturdy jackstands w/hockey pucks on subframe [where it bolts into body] and rear side jack point crush seam. Repeat with other side.

FTY
12-03-2013, 07:21 PM
Unsafe as hell. It's your safety, but relying on the hydraulics to keep the car elevated is foolish at best. Floor jacks do not have safety catches like a Rotary Lift et al.

Use the front side jack point [crush seam] to lift the whole side of the car. Sturdy jackstands w/hockey pucks on subframe [where it bolts into body] and rear side jack point crush seam. Repeat with other side.


What I find with the Abarth is if you jack up one side from either the front jacking point or the rear jacking point BOTH tires come off the ground..Just do it 2 at a time..

+1

Never rely on hydraulic jacks. I leave them under as a back ups along with jack stands. You don't Darwinism to visit you.

TopoGrigio
12-04-2013, 08:03 PM
Do you need any special kind of tool to put between the jack and the crush seam, to avoid damaging the seam? What do you recommend?

And do you have pictures of the points underneath the car where you position the jack stands?

Thanks again,
TG


Unsafe as hell. It's your safety, but relying on the hydraulics to keep the car elevated is foolish at best. Floor jacks do not have safety catches like a Rotary Lift et al.

Use the front side jack point [crush seam] to lift the whole side of the car. Sturdy jackstands w/hockey pucks on subframe [where it bolts into body] and rear side jack point crush seam. Repeat with other side.

Tweak
12-04-2013, 09:50 PM
Was thinking something made to mimic this would be ideal but I think the hockey puck is the intended "special tool".

http://www.flyinmiata.com/Store/images/35-70000a.jpg

trevc
12-05-2013, 10:52 AM
You can get these slotted pucks from the flyinmiata dot com website. I have one and it works good. A $20 but worth it.
One thing to mention though. The Fiat factory maintenance manual specifically states that you should not place a jack in the center of the left or right side of the car to lift that whole side of the car as structural damage may occur.


Was thinking something made to mimic this would be ideal but I think the hockey puck is the intended "special tool".

http://www.flyinmiata.com/Store/images/35-70000a.jpg

jflexe99
12-05-2013, 11:11 AM
I jack her up where suspension meets frame, with wood on top of puck and use cylinder blocks under tires to keep her up. Plenty of room to get underneath her.

rnddude
12-05-2013, 12:52 PM
Unsafe as hell. It's your safety, but relying on the hydraulics to keep the car elevated is foolish at best. Floor jacks do not have safety catches like a Rotary Lift et al.

Use the front side jack point [crush seam] to lift the whole side of the car. Sturdy jackstands w/hockey pucks on subframe [where it bolts into body] and rear side jack point crush seam. Repeat with other side.

Hmmm... did I say rely on the hydraulic jacks only to use when doing tire rotation? Once up in the air, jack stands are always a good option, of course. The three jack method is used at MANY commercial tire stores when doing tire changes, and WITHOUT jack stands I might add. The benefit to this versus doing corner jacking is that you do not impart excessive twist to the chassis, which can do things as severe as cracking the windshield. Side jacking is a good option IF the car structure is stiff enough to withstand raising the entire car by the front jack point. I would prefer to use TWO hydraulic jacks for side jacking, one at the front point, one at the rear point, to avoid excessively twisting the chassis.

Tweak
12-05-2013, 03:18 PM
That pic is from flyinmiata Trevor. :D

Ryephile
12-05-2013, 03:23 PM
Hmmm... did I say rely on the hydraulic jacks only to use when doing tire rotation? ......


three floor jacks, two for the front, one for the rear.

You didn't say otherwise, and we can't go on what you didn't write. Even the cheap nationwide chain tire stores like Discount Tire/Americas Tire/Belle Tire use only proper lifts. I'm fairly sure you're not trying to promote unsafe shadetree mechanic activities, but feel free to correct me otherwise.

This notion of excessive frame twist is deep in the noise compared to the stresses the chassis sees hitting any bump in the road. Let's just take for example a mediocre car body these days, it takes about 30,000 NM of torque to twist it torsionally a single degree. [FWIW, the R53 MINI body is 50,000 NM/]. 30,000 NM = 22,127 lb/ft of torque. Given the front corner weight of the Abarth is 2500 curb weight * 0.64/2 = 800 pounds, the total deflection would be approximately 800/22,127 = 0.036 to lift the front corner of the car a foot off the ground.

Is 0.036 "excessive"?

Ryephile
12-05-2013, 03:52 PM
Here's an incredibly timely blog entry on Oppo:

A Car Fell On My Head (http://oppositelock.jalopnik.com/a-funny-thing-happened-last-sunday-1477220323/1477309278/@pgeorge)

He was using only 1 jack stand and a hydraulic jack to support the rest. The hydraulic jack failed and he ended up in the emergency room.

2Cool
12-05-2013, 04:04 PM
I have 4 ramps, two aluminum ones about 2.5" tall and two homemade wood ones about 5" tall. Run it up on all of those, then use two floor jacks, one per side, to raise the front via the bolt points of the suspension, jack stand under the pinch welds. Then one floor jack with rubber pad under the rear flex beam to raise it then jack stands on the rear pinch welds. PITA but works fine and is safe.

Difficult car to jack, but not as bad as an Elise.

rnddude
12-05-2013, 05:15 PM
You didn't say otherwise, and we can't go on what you didn't write. Even the cheap nationwide chain tire stores like Discount Tire/Americas Tire/Belle Tire use only proper lifts. I'm fairly sure you're not trying to promote unsafe shadetree mechanic activities, but feel free to correct me otherwise.

This notion of excessive frame twist is deep in the noise compared to the stresses the chassis sees hitting any bump in the road. Let's just take for example a mediocre car body these days, it takes about 30,000 NM of torque to twist it torsionally a single degree. [FWIW, the R53 MINI body is 50,000 NM/]. 30,000 NM = 22,127 lb/ft of torque. Given the front corner weight of the Abarth is 2500 curb weight * 0.64/2 = 800 pounds, the total deflection would be approximately 800/22,127 = 0.036 to lift the front corner of the car a foot off the ground.

Is 0.036 "excessive"?

Sigh....the reason I "didn't say otherwise" is the OP's original question, and the title of the thread is "How do you get an 500 Abarth up on 4 jack stands". Did I really need to re-state the question in my reply? C'mon Son....

Ryephile
12-05-2013, 05:21 PM
...C'mon Son....

How about my question regarding excessive frame twist?

rnddude
12-05-2013, 05:39 PM
I will give you that one. Actually, my bigger concern with side jacking in general, and the posts/pictures of special pucks when using floor jacks speaks to that, is if you don't have a shaped puck, you run the risk of deforming/bending/crushing the seam, even at the jacking points. My Pontiac Solstice had the sills crushed at the dealership while being lifted on a commercial rack lift, no less, when they did not use model-specific pucks. They claimed it wasn't them, but I knew better and demanded they get it repaired, which they did. If you use the Fiat supplied jack you are probably safe in not damaging the sill seams, but I wonder how many people will actually buy or create a jack seam puck for their car when they use a floor jack when side lifting. Floor jacks can be used on the suspension elements or mounts without fear of damage, which is why I prefer that method over floor jacking on the sides.

Bossyrossyca
08-23-2014, 03:45 PM
Those slotted pins worked great.

My hydraulic lift fits under the A arm on the front of my Pop, but maybe not the Abarth. Then I lift the whole front end. Place on stands.
I place the hyd lift under the rear axle to do the same in the back.

aelfwyne
11-27-2014, 09:42 PM
So ... basically the gist of this whole thread is...

Don't use jacks on a 500. Drive it up onto ramps and be happy. ... Looking for some way to not have to pay someone else to install my exhaust! I don't like to have to use jacks if I have to get all the way under a car.

Tweak
11-27-2014, 09:51 PM
Jack adapter like this helps... http://www.flyinmiata.com/Store/images/35-70000.jpg

But this would be the best for the DIYer...
http://www.naautoequipment.com/images/vehiclelifts/midrise/MR6K-48-600w.jpg

aelfwyne
11-27-2014, 10:47 PM
Jack adapter like this helps... http://www.flyinmiata.com/Store/images/35-70000.jpg

But this would be the best for the DIYer...
http://www.naautoequipment.com/images/vehiclelifts/midrise/MR6K-48-600w.jpg


The latter would be nice, but until I buy my own place, I don't have a good place for one. A good garage will be a requirement when I buy a house though - when I do that I have a fantasy of doing a work pit.

aelfwyne
03-31-2015, 09:35 PM
Came back to this thread because I need to be able to get under my car (again)... I did ramps before and was not happy with that solution. Backing on doesn't give space under the front/middle of the car. Going forward the clutch wants to slip too much going up the ramps.

So I decided to find that adaptor bracket which is this here: https://www.flyinmiata.com/fm-jack-adapter.html correct? .. $20 isn't so bad, but then damn they add another $15 in shipping! For a tiny thing like this!! I hate when vendors try to gouge on shipping.

but then I saw this: https://www.flyinmiata.com/quickjack.html -- which I would love if ONLY I had concrete on which to place it. I cleared out the back garage with the intention of having a workspace, but as the house is owned/used by other family members, I couldn't complain too much when they filled it back up with junk again within 1 week. Apparently my doing the work to have an empty garage meant that my cousin could stop paying rent on a storage building :(...

So ... still stuck in the gravel driveway - which is unsafe as hell because jacks never have a "secure" footing. Considering both the jack adaptor and a set of raceramps wheel stands. Just not sure if I can jack the car up high enough with a side jack to get it on 10" or 12" wheel stands.

Tweak
04-01-2015, 12:37 AM
There is always the hockey puck solution. :D

Jwco
05-21-2016, 07:22 PM
So are people putting hockey pucks between the jack stands and the body? I lifted my car up and put a jack stand in the proper location. As I lowered the car onto the jack stand, it damaged the pinched weld jacking point. Not sure how to get the rear sitting on jack stands so I can put my suspension in. The front has the same pinched seems so I'm sure it will be an issue there as well. Any help is appreciated.