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rnddude
11-04-2013, 03:43 PM
I recall seeing line art or illustrations of the rear suspension, but now I can't seem to find it anywhere. can anyone point me towards what I need?

Fiat500USA
11-04-2013, 04:51 PM
How about here: Examining the Fiat 500's Suspension (http://www.fiat500usa.com/2010/09/examining-fiat-500-suspension.html)

Check Fiat500USA.com (http://fiat500usa.com/), plus I post a lot of images here, too.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-5thRFsFmgQM/UlTRVw_bPvI/AAAAAAAASuU/GhdLOulhV-w/s800/Fiat500USA.com-Fiat_500_rear_axle_beam.jpg

Another from:Inside the Fiat 500 Abarth Venom (http://www.fiat500usa.com/2012/04/inside-fiat-500-abarth-venom.html)

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-WTLHPOzV6wc/T39woCss7WI/AAAAAAAALjA/o0ToTkFgTPs/s400/AbarthPower.com-Fiat_500_Abarth-2012_NY_Auto_Show%2520021.JPG

rnddude
11-04-2013, 05:09 PM
Thanks for the reply, but all of those images are WITHOUT the roll bar installed. I am trying to determine what part numbers comprise the roll bar outboard mounts, where it attaches to the hubs.

Fiat500USA
11-04-2013, 05:24 PM
One from the prototype (this is different than producttion):

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-46fV0g6D-JU/UngO0MaQIiI/AAAAAAAAS4M/zDsLUHuqYsE/s800/Fiat500USA.com-Fiat_500_Abarth_Unveil_pics%2520101.JPG

One from the Venom:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-dAVoXK0q1tc/UngPvldIB3I/AAAAAAAAS4Y/uQz16wlbv08/s800/AbarthPower.com-Fiat_500_Abarth-2012_NY_Auto_Show%2520021.JPG

shagghie
11-04-2013, 06:43 PM
Probably not too helpful, but here some video of what the rear suspension looks like with cheap coilovers on. I think I counted 5 or 6 dead coils before I lost count, and decided to return them:

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/shagghie/th_0201E3F3-A13E-4625-9019-AA7DA9F57F35-14511-00000922EC46C13C.jpg (http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/shagghie/0201E3F3-A13E-4625-9019-AA7DA9F57F35-14511-00000922EC46C13C.mp4)

Fiat500USA
11-04-2013, 11:54 PM
Thanks for the reply, but all of those images are WITHOUT the roll bar installed. I am trying to determine what part numbers comprise the roll bar outboard mounts, where it attaches to the hubs.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-nHbR5klPQ5s/UnhrOVphNkI/AAAAAAAAS4s/_FA-vGajsiE/s640/Abarth%2520rear%2520suspension.jpg

(1)STABILIZER BAR,Rear Suspension
68149665AB x1

(2)BOLT,Hex Head
06509671AA x4


(3)BRACKET,Suspension
68158719AC x2

(4)BOLT,Hex Flange Head,M14x1.50x50.00
06104259AA x2

rnddude
11-05-2013, 11:07 AM
PERFECT! Thanks for the image and part numbers. BTW, where did those images come from? Are they available to everyone?

Now, here is the long-shot question, anyone out there have the parts for sale? (I don't need the sway bar itself, but everything else, new or used)

trevc
11-05-2013, 12:57 PM
Ouch - new brackets are expensive!
http://www.fiatpartswebstore.com/showAssembly.aspx?ukey_assembly=1098592

rnddude
11-05-2013, 01:01 PM
^^^trevc, you saved me a phone call to the dealer. Ouch indeed! That is why I am hoping to find a set off of a wrecked Abarth.

shagghie
11-05-2013, 01:07 PM
maybe try Rob at RoadRace too yeah?

redred
11-05-2013, 01:24 PM
Wow I had no idea the stock bumpstops were so large! No wonder my car seems to bounce around so much. I must be on the bump stops all the time!

shagghie
11-05-2013, 01:29 PM
Wow I had no idea the stock bumpstops were so large! No wonder my car seems to bounce around so much. I must be on the bump stops all the time!

Notice the Venom pic... I don't think it's running any bump stops. I know guys at auto-x that remove their stops altogether too to enable max travel before going to infinity spring rate. For the street, not sure it would be wise (or even safe), but I'm tempted to yank mine out or at least cut them down a lot to get some more travel going.

Anyone else done this? NorcalSS?

cy-clone33
11-05-2013, 01:34 PM
bumpstops are removed on my 500T, I drive it everyday as well as autox no issues... am I correct that you are looking at putting an Abarth rear sway on a different model car? if so I would do this as well I assumed they wouldn't fit anything other than the Abarth?

shagghie
11-05-2013, 01:37 PM
bumpstops are removed on my 500T, I drive it everyday as well as autox no issues... am I correct that you are looking at putting an Abarth rear sway on a different model car? if so I would do this as well I assumed they wouldn't fit anything other than the Abarth?

so yeah i think RR has you covered:

http://roadracemotorsports.com/store/images/FiatSway.jpg



Are you lowered on your 500T btw? 2" drop? And no bump stops? How would you describe the before/after difference on the road? Or did you pull them when you did the lowering springs at the same time so hard to tell?

Ryephile
11-05-2013, 02:27 PM
Thanks for the reply, but all of those images are WITHOUT the roll bar installed. I am trying to determine what part numbers comprise the roll bar outboard mounts, where it attaches to the hubs.


That 2nd image in Chris' first reply does have the sway bar installed, FYI.

What are you trying to accomplish here? Build your own bar?



Wow I had no idea the stock bumpstops were so large! No wonder my car seems to bounce around so much. I must be on the bump stops all the time!

Yes, I did the measurements and showed it in this linked thread post (http://www.fiat500usaforum.com/showthread.php?8767-Project-thread-Toro-Rosso-Abarth&p=619031&viewfull=1#post619031). Only the Eibach Pro-Kit doesn't sit on the bumpstops, the other lower lowering springs all sit on the 'stops. This is fairly standard issue with aftermarket lowering springs, FWIW.

rnddude
11-05-2013, 03:36 PM
[QUOTE=Ryephile;637344]That 2nd image in Chris' first reply does have the sway bar installed, FYI.

What are you trying to accomplish here? Build your own bar?
QUOTE]

No. I have a 500e (electric) which uses the Abarth rear suspension (but with different springs), so it already has the mounting bosses for the stock roll bar outboard brackets. I have already replaced the very tall e springs with Abarth stock springs, which drops the car about to where a 1-2" lowered Abarth sits. I had to cut one inch off the front bump stops, and I am about to install the "devo" short bump stops on the rear, as it currently is almost on the stock rear bump stops. As the stock 500e rear springs were 13mm, and the Abarths are 12mm, and I happen to have a stock abarth roll bar takeoff from a fellow forumite, I thought putting on the stock ARB system would likely offset some of the softer rear spring rate and improve the turn-in. But no way I am paying the stock bracket prices ($180+ each side!), I will wait for a salvage set.

Fiat500USA
11-05-2013, 04:50 PM
Here's another image from the Venom:

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-Jwg59maZXAs/UnlZXoDZDiI/AAAAAAAAS5M/xfXfkNop8vQ/s800/AbarthPower.com-Fiat_500_Abarth-2012_NY_Auto_Show%2520016.JPG

Ryephile
11-05-2013, 04:52 PM
Car-Part.com?

NORCAL SS
11-05-2013, 11:35 PM
Probably not too helpful, but here some video of what the rear suspension looks like with cheap coilovers on. I think I counted 5 or 6 dead coils before I lost count, and decided to return them:

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/shagghie/th_0201E3F3-A13E-4625-9019-AA7DA9F57F35-14511-00000922EC46C13C.jpg (http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/shagghie/0201E3F3-A13E-4625-9019-AA7DA9F57F35-14511-00000922EC46C13C.mp4)



progressive rate spring this is normal. kws do the same as well as others. its not a linear spring

shagghie
11-06-2013, 12:52 AM
progressive rate spring this is normal. kws do the same as well as others. its not a linear spring

Ya but these were horrible...
Took em out and they rattled around on the ground like crazy tin can slinkies compared to the neu-F's or even stock springs.

Ryephile
11-06-2013, 10:47 AM
progressive rate spring this is normal. kws do the same as well as others. its not a linear spring

Normal for low-rent aftermarket. Linear is de facto for OEM and good aftermarket. Just because KW gets away with it doesn't mean it's ideal or desirable for everyone. The only time I can think you actually want progressive is when you're tuning the car for 2 different loads; one passenger and fully loaded for TUV certification.

NORCAL SS
11-06-2013, 10:59 AM
it depends on spring rates honestly. Progressive ive had great results in cars but linear has been junk if they set it up wrong. I designed my own coils for 00 up gm suv trucks and by far ride better than any other spring on market for those trucks. It depends a lot if the person knows what they are doing and not just making a spring rate based on weight for production.

Ryephile
11-06-2013, 11:07 AM
it depends on spring rates honestly. Progressive ive had great results in cars but linear has been junk if they set it up wrong. I designed my own coils for 00 up gm suv trucks and by far ride better than any other spring on market for those trucks. It depends a lot if the person knows what they are doing and not just making a spring rate based on weight for production.

It depends on the competence of the tuner. Garbage in, garbage out. Look at any successful race car and you'll see linear rate Eibach ERS, Hyperco, and occasionally Swift. KW's linear-rate race springs are semi-common in club-sport racing, but they're not as good as the "big 3".

Springs need to be dialed in to achieve the wheel rate you need for the sprung and unsprung masses along with the anti-roll bar rate, bushing stiction characteristics, and of course, tire, driver, and venue. It's not a shock that most lowering spring designs are off-the-hip guesses loosely based on OEM rates but then go and make the system more bumpstop active.

rnddude
11-06-2013, 11:10 AM
I concur with what NORCAL SS said. The design philosophy of progressive-wound springs is..... start with a longer length of wire than a linear spring, wind a portion near one end with the coils closely spaced, then changing to a wider spacing for the rest of the spring. Because the overall wire length is longer, the initial spring rate is lower, but because the close-spaced end is designed to coil-bind at a specific compressed length (more on that later), once that happens that portion of the wire in effectively REMOVED from the active length of wire, and the remaining (now shorter) length of wire takes over the loading, and being shorter, it's rate effectively rises.

The key is to design the spring for the application such that the static load DOES NOT compress the spring enough that the coil-bind has already occurred. If it does (as in Shaggies images) the spring is essentially a linear spring with very limited remaining travel, not good.

shagghie
11-06-2013, 02:08 PM
The key is to design the spring for the application such that the static load DOES NOT compress the spring enough that the coil-bind has already occurred. If it does (as in Shaggies images) the spring is essentially a linear spring with very limited remaining travel, not good.

Pretty much this ^^^. I had 6 coils pre-compressed (completely dead), and that was with a rear seat delete too. If I so much as ate a bowl of chili with onions I was hitting a bump stop...

The Neu-F's are semi-progressive, and more to the point, aren't pre-compressed like that. BTW that 'image' is actually a video. If you click on it the video gives you a little better tour to where you can see 6 dead coils and different angles, etc.