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View Full Version : Winning a car has become a nightmare.



tharvey13
11-01-2013, 12:36 PM
In May of 2012 Fiat USA held the Spin to Win Facebook Contest where they were giving away 10 Fiat 500’s. I won one of the 10 cars which I upgraded to the Abarth, this was obviously a great thing and it was one of the best things that have ever happened to me. I had always wanted a little sports car.

The dealership that I won the car through held a contest where you could win a trip to the 2012 Fiat FreakOut that was being held in Virginia that year. I submitted my story as a PowerPoint Presentation and again I was lucky enough to win. It was a wonderful experience meeting everyone whose passion and dedication to the Fiat brand was absolutely amazing.
My company closed our office in Virginia and I was relocated to Nashville, TN and this is where my story starts to change from a dream to a nightmare. I arrived in TN a few weeks before my wife as her employer asked her to stay and finish a project. Right before I moved my 12 year old cat Corduroy was diagnosed with liver disease so he stayed in VA with my wife to receive treatment. So this was a very stressful time in my life.

The day before I was to fly back to VA to help my wife move down I found oil everywhere under the car and nothing registering on the dipstick. I called and it was towed to Huntsville, Al an hour and a half away. I called the next day while waiting for a connecting flight and was told it would need a new engine but they were waiting on Fiat approval. When I arrived back in VA we had to put Corduroy to sleep as he had not responded to the treatment and then say goodbye to the town we had lived our whole lives. I tried to get updates from the dealership regarding my Abarth but they did not return my calls, I had to get Fiat Customer Care involved. Even with them involved I could not get any straight answers and they could not coordinate a rental car, I was compensated with 16 oil change coupon. My car required the Turbo Oil Cooler to be replaced and was at the dealership from the time it was towed on 10/09/2012 thru 10/19/2012.

Everything was fine with my Abarth until 8/24/2013 when the Check Engine Light came on and it would not go above 6psi also the Side Claddings started to come loose on both sides behind the front tires. I took it into Nashville Fiat on 8/26/2013 at 7:00am I had to call them that afternoon to find out the status which was that they could not diagnose an issue with the Check Engine Light other than it was a Turbo Underboost code and since they had to order the Claddings I should just see if it reoccurs and if it did they would replace the Turbo.

On my way home from work on 8/30/2013 the issue reoccurred and I immediately contacted Nashville Fiat and arranged to drop it off at 7:00am on 9/03/2013. I dropped my Abarth off for the second time on 9/03/2013 and when I did not receive an update from the dealership I called and was informed that they needed to order the Wastegate and the vehicle was not able to be driven, they were going to replace the Claddings during this visit as well since they had come in. I received no update while it was at the dealership and called Thursday 9/05/2013 and was informed that the part should be in on Friday morning and I would receive a call at 9:30 am. I never received a call and when I called that afternoon I was told the part did not arrive that it should be Monday, when questioned about not receiving a call they scoffed until he saw his note and apologized and promised he would call at 10:30am on 9/09/2013. I had to call the dealership the afternoon of 9/09/2013 to get the status of the part as I did not receive a phone call and was told they were finishing up the repair at that time and I could pick it up.

The issue occurred for the third time on 9/14/2013 and I arranged to drop it at the dealership on 9/16/2013, and upon arrival they had no paperwork ready and I had to wait for about 20 minutes just to drop the car off. By that afternoon I had received no updates and tried to contact the dealership for at least an hour with no success, I called Fiat Customer Care and they could not contact the dealer either. I had to take off from work on 9/17/2013 as my wife had a meeting out of town I called Fiat Customer Care again within minutes after getting off the phone with them I received a call from the dealer stating they had to order a Turbo that was backordered but the car was able to be driven while I waited on the part. I found this troubling as I was told during the second visit for the same issue the car should not be driven. I was unable to pick the vehicle up on this date regardless. I contacted the Attorney General’s office to file a complaint with the dealership and sent an email to the head of Fiat USA.

On 9/18/2013 I contacted the dealership and requested something in writing that the vehicle was safe to be driven since the Turbo could fail at any time without warning and would reset every time the car was started. I was told that he would work on getting it in writing and would call me back. That afternoon I was contacted by a gentleman from Chrysler who would be handling my case from here out. I informed him of everything I had been dealing with and he said he would arrange for a rental car and compensate one of my monthly payments. I received a call from the dealer that afternoon stating that they had what I had asked for but Chrysler wanted to put me in a rental car because I was concerned about the safety of the car , the car was supposed to be waiting for me when I arrived at Enterprise. I arrived at Enterprise roughly 30 minutes later and the dealer had not arranged anything. I was very upset and informed them I did not want the rental and I would just call the dealer and get my car back as I was told he had what I wanted which was a letter stating the car was safe to drive. When I called I was informed that there was no letter that notes were added to my file that the car would drive as a normal Fiat 500 but the tech had stated that if you are used to driving an Abarth and the Turbo were to fail it could create a potentially dangerous situation. The service advisor then proceeded to make excuses for his behavior and blaming me for getting Fiat and Chrysler involved. I was beyond upset after all this and was literally shaking.

I contacted the gentleman from Chrysler stating that if they wanted to help correct the situation they could refund the price of the extended warranty I purchased which was $3000. The cost was refunded and he arranged for the rental car. This went a long way to helping make this situation more bearable but at this point I stopped contacting the dealer and all status updates were going through the contact at Chrysler.

I was given a Chrysler 200 as a rental car and was contacted by Enterprise on 10/03/2013 asking to swap out the car as it had been recalled, I had been informed that the turbo was expected to arrive on 10/04/2013 so I simply returned the rental as I figured my car was the top priority and I would hopefully receive it back that day which I did not.
I tried to contact the gentleman from Chrysler the morning of 10/07/2013 and received no response so I contacted FiatCares on www.Fiat500USAForum.com as they had responded to a post I had made stating they were working on my case and asked him to contact the dealer and get the status of the repair.

This is my request “Hello, I sent an email to XXXXXXXXXX this morning inquiring on the repair status of my Abarth and have not received any answer. I was wondering if you could inquire on the status from Nashville Fiat, I am hopeful the repair will be completed today. Thank You, Thomas Harvey

This is the response I received “Mr. XXXXXXXX has advised me that he has contacted you and the dealer should have the vehicle completed by today or tomorrow morning. I have also been advised that you are in a courtesy loaner and we have reimbursed you 3000.00 for the service contract.”

I felt this was very insulting and was basically saying we have compensated you so shut up and deal with it.

I finally was able to pick my Abarth up on 10/08/2013 and was ecstatic to have it back however upon getting home I realized that the Claddings that had been replaced were coming off and that the body work on the front end was not put together correctly. I immediately contacted the dealer and made arrangements to take it by on 10/09/2013. Upon their inspection they stated that they had to order new Claddings I was informed the vehicle was fine to drive so we decided that the front end would be corrected when they replaced the Claddings for the second time.

During this time 2 weeks had passed with no contact from anyone except the Attorney General sent me the response from the dealer stating my vehicle had been repaired and I had not been back which was completely false.

The Claddings finally arrived on 10/29/2013 and I arranged to drop it off 10/30/2013 at 7:00am, when I went to drop it off I had to stand there for 20 minutes while the tech was on the phone dealing with a crisis. I received a call that afternoon that the Claddings were done but Clips needed to be ordered to fix the front end. Upon going to pick it up and inspecting it I realized that one of the Claddings that had just been put on was coming loose on the driver’s side and that the side stripe had been scraped off in a couple of places. Upon showing this to the dealership their first suggestion was to rivet it in place. They are supposed to be researching it but I have received no contact from them as of yet. I asked Chrysler to replace the car with another non Fiat branded vehicle since this is the only dealer within an hour and a half drive but they said that was not going to happen even though they agree that this is one of their worst dealerships. I don’t know what else to do than make my story public and hope it brings some resolution or change.

redred
11-01-2013, 12:45 PM
What an awful experience! FIAT better get their $h1t together and do something about their service centers. FIAT of Glendale is just as bad and I have heard numerous horror stories about their service policies. I feel very lucky to have found Sierra Fiat and at least now I know my car will be properly taken care of.

Vaejovis carolinanus aka lowconabarth
11-01-2013, 01:25 PM
I remember meeting you at the 12 Freakout , I have read your complaint 3 times and I do not get your nightmare comment. I feel for your lose of your beloved animal and job situation but a car can break and they do that is what a warranty is for. I feel like you are the women with a Virginia ham under her arm saying I have no bread. They refunded your extended warranty and gave you a rental. Most folks have to pay for their car yours was free except for the upgrade which you wanted. If you did not do that, you would not have the claddings or the turbo that is causing the problems. Maybe if you were happy with the blessings that you were given this might not have happened. Sounds hard but true. The studios are not perfect but sounds like they are trying to make you whole. I think you might have opened a big can of worms by calling the Attorney General and now they are upset with you. I would find a different studio if possible. Sorry for the harsh words but that my opinion.

hecbom
11-01-2013, 01:34 PM
redred
I bought my Abarth from Glendale Fiat but I have not been back for my first oil change. I have less than 500 mi on the car but they have been calling asking me to bring it in. I posted a thread a while back asking forum members for their advice on local Fiat Studios but no one had an opinion of Fiat of Downey (Champion) which is close to where I live (Whittier). I am definitely going to set up an appointment with Sierra Fiat based on what you wrote in another thread. I will post my impression of the service and expertize after my oil change.

redred
11-01-2013, 01:50 PM
I remember meeting you at the 12 Freakout , I have read your complaint 3 times and I do not get your nightmare comment. I feel for your lose of your beloved animal and job situation but a car can break and they do that is what a warranty is for. I feel like you are the women with a Virginia ham under her arm saying I have no bread. They refunded your extended warranty and gave you a rental. Most folks have to pay for their car yours was free except for the upgrade which you wanted. If you did not do that, you would not have the claddings or the turbo that is causing the problems. Maybe if you were happy with the blessings that you were given this might not have happened. Sounds hard but true. The studios are not perfect but sounds like they are trying to make you whole. I think you might have opened a big can of worms by calling the Attorney General and now they are upset with you. I would find a different studio if possible. Sorry for the harsh words but that my opinion.

The nightmare is in the fact that he keeps having to return for repairs. Fiat Studio techs are graded on their returns. On a scale of 0 - 100 it is based on the percentages of cars that come back in for the same repair. Bottom line is the car should NOT have to return for follow up repairs. EVER. The big issue is, many (not all) Studios don't seem to care at all about their score.

ReconTopher
11-01-2013, 02:43 PM
Holy wall of text! Can you please add in some spaces and punctuations if you have the need to type up something that big again. Thank you.
Not trying to be rude, it is just really hard to read. :)

Yeah it sucks, but you got a free car, so no sympathy from me as I know people that paid full price for the cars that are having similar issues. I know that anytime a lawyer is involved with a car manufacturer dispute it is going to grind the process to a halt as well.

Process it as a lemon, get a replacement and drive on.

trevc
11-01-2013, 02:55 PM
I am really sorry to hear about your cat. I know it is very hard loosing a pet, especially with everything else you had going on at the same time.

I hope you get to like Nashville. TN is not as nice at VA but be glad they didn't move you to west TN!
I know relocation can be hard. I went from London, England to Sunnyvale, CA, back to London and then to Memphis, TN within a 3 year span!

As for the car, it seems Fiat service varies greatly in quality from dealer to dealer. Thankfully the one dealer here in Memphis is good when I need them but I try and do most things myself.
My suggestion to you at this point would be to trade your Abarth in for something else as you will never be happy with it. You don't have a lot of money in it so you are a lot luckier than most!

Stay strong!

Guest
11-01-2013, 03:05 PM
Holy wall of text! Can you please add in some spaces and punctuations if you have the need to type up something that big again. Thank you.
Not trying to be rude, it is just really hard to read. :)

Yeah it sucks, but you got a free car, so no sympathy from me as I know people that paid full price for the cars that are having similar issues. I know that anytime a lawyer is involved with a car manufacturer dispute it is going to grind the process to a halt as well.

Process it as a lemon, get a replacement and drive on.

Wow you really are an a** , no offence intended though :)

ReconTopher
11-01-2013, 03:22 PM
Wow you really are an a** , no offence intended though :) should be "offense"

Oh, I'm sorry, should I have brought up a cute story about a ham under an arm? You didn't comment on that one though, did you?
Let me rub some sugar on it for you sweetpea. Is that better baby? Does it give you a warm and fuzzy?

rnddude
11-01-2013, 03:29 PM
Wow you really are an a** , no offence intended though :)

Actually, I had the same impression as ReconTopher as I was reading, and reading, and reading. The entire thing could have been edited down with relevant bullet points and been less than 2 paragraphs long.

tharvey13
11-01-2013, 04:06 PM
Holy wall of text! Can you please add in some spaces and punctuations if you have the need to type up something that big again. Thank you.
Not trying to be rude, it is just really hard to read. :)

Yeah it sucks, but you got a free car, so no sympathy from me as I know people that paid full price for the cars that are having similar issues. I know that anytime a lawyer is involved with a car manufacturer dispute it is going to grind the process to a halt as well.

Process it as a lemon, get a replacement and drive on.

Sorry it copied that way from Word, as for not getting sympathy because I won the car that is fine I wanted to be completely honest in my post. You can also look at it as I associate my Abarth with one of the happiest days of my entire life, I was driving a Chevy Aveo when I won it so it was a wonderful thing. I guess because it was free I should just take what this dealer dishes out? For just this issue it has been ongoing for 9 weeks, 5 visits, and 31 days in their possession, because the car is free I shouldn't care about that? I contacted the attorney general because I was instructed to by the BBB as Fiat does not participate in the BBB Auto Program. The fact that they wanted me to drive it for what turned out to be 3 weeks I found very offensive, if I would have taken possession and had it cause an accident that put my life or others in jeopardy I guess that is fine as well because it was free. And so you know with taxes(because it is considered income), the upgrade, and then state title and taxes I am still in it for $15000.

Guest
11-01-2013, 04:11 PM
should be "offense"

Oh, I'm sorry, should I have brought up a cute story about a ham under an arm? You didn't comment on that one though, did you?
Let me rub some sugar on it for you sweetpea. Is that better baby? Does it give you a warm and fuzzy?

No mate its offence! Trust me, my English is certainly better than yours!

Apology accepted

tharvey13
11-01-2013, 04:13 PM
I remember meeting you at the 12 Freakout , I have read your complaint 3 times and I do not get your nightmare comment. I feel for your lose of your beloved animal and job situation but a car can break and they do that is what a warranty is for. I feel like you are the women with a Virginia ham under her arm saying I have no bread. They refunded your extended warranty and gave you a rental. Most folks have to pay for their car yours was free except for the upgrade which you wanted. If you did not do that, you would not have the claddings or the turbo that is causing the problems. Maybe if you were happy with the blessings that you were given this might not have happened. Sounds hard but true. The studios are not perfect but sounds like they are trying to make you whole. I think you might have opened a big can of worms by calling the Attorney General and now they are upset with you. I would find a different studio if possible. Sorry for the harsh words but that my opinion.

I do not understand the thinking that because I won the car and upgraded it is my fault that this happened? I guess I should just deal with whatever treatment I receive.

MAZ
11-01-2013, 04:18 PM
you are the women with a Virginia ham under her arm saying I have no bread.
^I've never heard that before, lol.


I have nothing relevant to add. :)

Vaejovis carolinanus aka lowconabarth
11-01-2013, 04:26 PM
^I've never heard that before, lol.


I have nothing relevant to add. :)

I can not claim it as mine it is from the Soprano's

ReconTopher
11-01-2013, 04:29 PM
No mate its offence! Trust me, my English is certainly better than yours!

Apology accepted

Well since you threw in a "mate" I'll let it slide.

ksig421
11-01-2013, 04:33 PM
I do not understand the thinking that because I won the car and upgraded it is my fault that this happened? I guess I should just deal with whatever treatment I receive.

People are just Jealous that you won a car ;) I guess they dont understand that you still have to pay the difference on the Abarth and that the fact that you are gonna have to pay a lot more in taxes next year. Haters gonna hate.

Guest
11-01-2013, 04:43 PM
Hey ignore the jealous, Fiat OWE you a working prize as promised. Youre more like the woman with a mouldy ham asking for some soy based meat substitute!

I hope they cough up and sort the disrespectful treatment out.

ReconTopher
11-01-2013, 05:03 PM
After reading through it a few times, I could see where you tried to break up the paragraphs. It usually doesn't take on web boards so line breaks work better as I just saw you fixed, thanks! :) As I said, wasn't trying to give you a hard time on that, I truly wanted to read everything you said and the format made it difficult, and I wasn't the only one. Aside from Fidgett's attempt at being snide and making my comment something that it wasn't.

I'm not saying that because it is free that you shouldn't care. In my opinion, the treatment you're receiving is pretty commonplace, as are the problems with the cars. You tend to insinuate and make leaps with statements people have made. Nobody said it would be fine to get in an accident or take what the dealer dishes out, nobody said it was your fault. Get over yourself. I don't know if you always feel on the defensive and that people are taking advantage of you or if you felt ganged up on here by have two people make comments negative about this. It's a public board where you posted this, and it's the internet. Expect comments about it that aren't going to support you and it's not coming from jealousy and haters gotta hate babble.

"I felt this was very insulting and was basically saying we have compensated you so shut up and deal with it."

Again here you are twisting things around. Of course you feel what you feel and that is valid, but in my view the dealer has done what they should of done in this issue. I think they even went over the top in the refunding of your warranty, 16 oil changes, and rental car. People bought brand new 500e's and had them recalled for weeks and got squat. With contacting the Attorney General, my comment was that it slows things down as now the dealership and Fiat have to contact their attorneys and everything has to be documented and looked at with what recourse the customer is going to come after them with. Probably the same sentiment that the service advisor was trying to make to you, albeit poorly as you were "shaking" from being so upset.

To me, it seems like you are trying to get as much as you can out of this, like you're entitled. Asking for a new car, when it's all been separate issues, your comment about "making your story public" and the fact that you had your opening statement on a word document. Where else have you been posting this attempting to illicit some response? Fiat is and has been taking care of you and I'm not a Fiat fanboy. I'll gladly inform people asking about the issues with these cars and the dealer network. Good luck to you.

tharvey13
11-01-2013, 09:52 PM
After reading through it a few times, I could see where you tried to break up the paragraphs. It usually doesn't take on web boards so line breaks work better as I just saw you fixed, thanks! :) As I said, wasn't trying to give you a hard time on that, I truly wanted to read everything you said and the format made it difficult, and I wasn't the only one. Aside from Fidgett's attempt at being snide and making my comment something that it wasn't.

I'm not saying that because it is free that you shouldn't care. In my opinion, the treatment you're receiving is pretty commonplace, as are the problems with the cars. You tend to insinuate and make leaps with statements people have made. Nobody said it would be fine to get in an accident or take what the dealer dishes out, nobody said it was your fault. Get over yourself. I don't know if you always feel on the defensive and that people are taking advantage of you or if you felt ganged up on here by have two people make comments negative about this. It's a public board where you posted this, and it's the internet. Expect comments about it that aren't going to support you and it's not coming from jealousy and haters gotta hate babble.

"I felt this was very insulting and was basically saying we have compensated you so shut up and deal with it."

Again here you are twisting things around. Of course you feel what you feel and that is valid, but in my view the dealer has done what they should of done in this issue. I think they even went over the top in the refunding of your warranty, 16 oil changes, and rental car. People bought brand new 500e's and had them recalled for weeks and got squat. With contacting the Attorney General, my comment was that it slows things down as now the dealership and Fiat have to contact their attorneys and everything has to be documented and looked at with what recourse the customer is going to come after them with. Probably the same sentiment that the service advisor was trying to make to you, albeit poorly as you were "shaking" from being so upset.

To me, it seems like you are trying to get as much as you can out of this, like you're entitled. Asking for a new car, when it's all been separate issues, your comment about "making your story public" and the fact that you had your opening statement on a word document. Where else have you been posting this attempting to illicit some response? Fiat is and has been taking care of you and I'm not a Fiat fanboy. I'll gladly inform people asking about the issues with these cars and the dealer network. Good luck to you.

Thank You for the response. The point is the Chrysler representative agrees this is one of the worst dealerships he has ever dealt with and given my geographic I am stuck dealing with them. I am not asking for a new Abarth I would take any Chrysler product at this point aside from a Fiat just so I don't have to deal with Nashville Fiat.

I wrote the whole history out so it is out there and while the issues I am experiencing all seem different I had the car for 14 months with no issues with the claddings. When the turbo first acted up I was 2 hours for home and I was told it would not affect it to drive it home as it was running fine with just the turbo not engaging. I kept it slow and when I got home both claddings were peeling off right behind the front tires it may have just been a coincidence.

The issue with the front end is they broke the retaining clips putting it together after replacing the turbo and I guess they didn't notice until I pointed out all the gaps.

The fact that I asked a Fiat Customer Service rep who had posted he was working on my case to contact the dealer to find the status of my car and his response was that I have been compensated, I found that rude and out of line, it did not need to be added to the comment at all a simple response to the status would have sufficed.

Vaejovis carolinanus aka lowconabarth stated "Most folks have to pay for their car yours was free except for the upgrade which you wanted. If you did not do that, you would not have the claddings or the turbo that is causing the problems. Maybe if you were happy with the blessings that you were given this might not have happened. Sounds hard but true." to me that sounds like it is my fault because I wanted the Abarth, maybe I am crazy.

I stand up when I feel I have been wronged and maybe I am delusional and things aren't that bad. I tried contacting the Better Business Bureau and it was at their direction I contacted the Attorney General, I was not seeking anything other than to report their business practices at Nashville Fiat/Franklin Chrysler Dodge Jeep Ram. Chrysler Corporate has very little impact or control over the dealership at least this is what I am being told by Chrysler so why should I expect this dealership to get better?

It seems to be a common trend with many people having issues with their Fiat's and with the Dealerships, I want something to change. If there is an issue it will be towed back to Nashville Fiat I won't have a choice unless my contact at Chrysler is working at the time and he can approve it going to another dealer.

Abarth Phreak
11-01-2013, 10:22 PM
:stickpoke:

I will never get the time spent reading this thread back up to this point.

Fidgell and Recon = :cuddle:

:onthego:

ReconTopher
11-01-2013, 11:39 PM
Just some fun bantering :) At least on my side but I assume on his as well. I've seen his previous posts, haha.

desmomini
11-13-2013, 09:09 PM
I read through this.

It is clear that:

a.) Your particular car is terrible.

b.) Your particular dealer is terrible.

I have been lucky to have a generally good car and a generally good dealer. But if I were in your situation, I would cut my losses and trade it in.

Yes, it would be insulting to see what trade-in offers you get on a relatively new car...I took mine to CarMax for a quote (I like to change cars frequently) and was shocked to hear $14,000 as their bid- so I kept the car! However, if I was jinxed like you are, I would dump it and move on.

Look at it this way...if you get $14,000 +/-, that's still "earnings" from your big win, and you can apply that to a new car, or find something used and spend the whole pot, allowing you to move on with something more reliable that you don't need to bring to FIAT of Nashville for service.

Win/win.

DS Ocampo
11-14-2013, 06:47 AM
Avondale fiat sucks also... Just like that story... Sorry to hear about all that, Avondale fiat broke my car twice before I gave up going there and now drive 40 min to Scottsdale fiat for WAY better service and a fiat tech...
From what I gather only few places have real FIAT techs , most just have someone that thinks they know cars or should I say just NA cars

Lil Blue
11-22-2013, 04:42 PM
Actually with that amount, after taxes he'll be lucky to break even, maybe a couple of extra grand, but about it. We're trying to figure out the tax thing on the Abarth my wife won. 3k (or more..really don't know yet) on sales tax and registration, and about 8-10k in income taxes. Still cheaper than buying one outright, but still, money we don't have. Had to borrow for the sales tax and registration, then once we have it, we'll go from there. Our only other option given was to forfeit the prize, and no one gets the car.

Fiat500USA
11-22-2013, 04:55 PM
I know there has been a lot of agravation, but another thought is to tough it out once it is all sorted and you may still enjoy the car. I had tons of problems in both my Audis for the first year, but they turned out to be great cars and the troubles were just distant memories. Just a thought. Sometimes when you roll with the punches it works out.

rnddude
11-22-2013, 05:02 PM
Actually with that amount, after taxes he'll be lucky to break even, maybe a couple of extra grand, but about it. We're trying to figure out the tax thing on the Abarth my wife won. 3k (or more..really don't know yet) on sales tax and registration, and about 8-10k in income taxes. Still cheaper than buying one outright, but still, money we don't have. Had to borrow for the sales tax and registration, then once we have it, we'll go from there. Our only other option given was to forfeit the prize, and no one gets the car.


Actually, there is another option...sell it before you register it.

Lil Blue
11-22-2013, 05:22 PM
Actually, there is another option...sell it before you register it.

Actually thought of that (even the prize dispenser said that's what most do) , but the used car manager at the dealership only offered us 16k on a 31k car. Be lucky to get 2-3k after all said and done to stick in the bank. We have to pay sales tax before we even drive it off the lot tomorrow to be able to even try to sell it someplace else. Besides, we would like to enjoy it for at least a little while. The whole trying to collect the prize has been a stressful ordeal, so much so it "soured" me on the brand for a while. I'm finally back to enjoying the one we have again since it really is a great little car. Wife's saying let's see what happens tomorrow, things will eventually work out. Would actually prefer keeping it, that way we have his and hers Fiats, and we both have winter rats already. So we shall see. Hey...maybe we'll win the lottery...you never know. :friendly_wink: