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shagghie
10-31-2013, 02:07 PM
My pop just picked up a Dallara...one of the most beautiful car designs ever in my opinion. Here's some pics!

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/shagghie/a9f3635a-50f0-4c88-bd1d-7fc584ae346a.jpg (http://s60.photobucket.com/user/shagghie/media/a9f3635a-50f0-4c88-bd1d-7fc584ae346a.jpg.html)

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/shagghie/Dallara7.jpg (http://s60.photobucket.com/user/shagghie/media/Dallara7.jpg.html)

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/shagghie/Dallara9.jpg (http://s60.photobucket.com/user/shagghie/media/Dallara9.jpg.html)

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/shagghie/Dallara8.jpg (http://s60.photobucket.com/user/shagghie/media/Dallara8.jpg.html)

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/shagghie/Dallara5.jpg (http://s60.photobucket.com/user/shagghie/media/Dallara5.jpg.html)

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/shagghie/Dallara10.jpg (http://s60.photobucket.com/user/shagghie/media/Dallara10.jpg.html)

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/shagghie/Dallar4.jpg (http://s60.photobucket.com/user/shagghie/media/Dallar4.jpg.html)

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/shagghie/Dallar6.jpg (http://s60.photobucket.com/user/shagghie/media/Dallar6.jpg.html)

From the description of the original owner:
"The Dallara conversion was done shortly after purchase. It's been a labor of love. This particular X1/9 started it's life as a 2 tone blue which is common for this model year. It's has an odometer reading of 105839 but has seen numerous maintenance repairs and upgrades to make it dependable enough for everyday driving.

It's yellow exterior paint is an easy match as it is the same code # as todays Chevrolet automobiles. The black interior is all original to the car with the exception of the dashboard. It has power windows and a cd stereo system with 5 speakers. An oil gauge has been added to monitor engine oil pressure.

The vehicle is California certified and is street legal. The X1/9 is a mid engine/transaxle design which offers outstanding handling. It's 4 wheel disc brakes give positive stopping in any form of braking. The removable hardtop makes this car an open air fun car to drive. The mildly modified engine enhances the true pleasure of driving this vehicle.

The 1.5 L engine has a special modified cylinder head that has approximately 100 miles since being recondition. Camshaft installed is 35/75, ported intake and exhaust with shaved head to raise compression, 3 angled valve job to increase air/fuel flow. The engine block is stock and has approximately 65,000 miles on it. Oil pressure is excellent with a psi of 60 freeway and 28 hot at idle.The engine bay has been meticulously detailed for a finishing touch.

It is equipped with a front sway bar, lowering suspension springs and 4 new KYB struts. Front and rear brakes are new. The 50 series tires have less than 400 miles. Wheels are Spin Werkes 15" racing wheels of 7" front and 8" rears giving a wide stance which hug the pavement."

Now, I'll let my pop describe what his future plans are for this car... muhahahahaahah.

And for those that don't know what these cars are capable of....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JncnD8k1R80

redred
10-31-2013, 02:33 PM
WOW!! Now that's a beauty! Drop a newer Multi-Air 1.4L Turbo in that bad boy!!!! ;)

djhace
10-31-2013, 03:12 PM
coolios!

shagghie
10-31-2013, 04:17 PM
WOW!! Now that's a beauty! Drop a newer Multi-Air 1.4L Turbo in that bad boy!!!! ;)

I think he's going to be dropping something much more powerful in there from either Honda or Shelby.... or just adding a turbo good for 210hp... from a car that weighs 1700 something pounds, too.

sptcoupe
10-31-2013, 06:44 PM
Shaggie's dad here. I am basically looking at three options. A turbo package on the FIAT 1.9L SOHC FI motor in it now, good for about 195 HP; a Honda V-TEC making 240 HP; or a tweaked Shelby turbo 2.0L good for about 220 HP. The car reportedly only weighs 1974 lbs. soaking wet, so it won't take much to make it scoot. But then I just got a call about an ABARTH 1.4 Multi taken out of a wrecked car. Hmmmmm.

redred
10-31-2013, 07:05 PM
Do it!!!!!

dart1.4t
10-31-2013, 08:04 PM
...... Camshaft installed is 35/75, ported intake and exhaust with shaved head to raise compression, 3 angled valve job to increase air/fuel flow. .....

i don't know what a 35/75 cam shaft is... and i always giggle a little when someone talks about a 3 angle valve job like it's something special. the main valve seat has to terminate somewhere... they do that with aditional angles. is it a standard 30/45/60 how wide is the 45? 1mm, 1.5mm? maybe it's 35/45/55 or my favorite 39/45/55 with a radius from the 55 into the bowl. but then again there is always those high lift engines that favor 50 or 55 degree seats. that always opens up a whole new can of worms with top and back cuts...

if all you want is 210hp you can probably do that without the turbo on the stock block... you probably want to get rid of that l-jetronic system and put in a mega squirt or something to that effect.

edit: on second thought 210hp on a single cam is actually doable without the turbo but you might not want to drive it. that's like full on drag race engine territory. it would definitely have a rough idle.

Tweak
10-31-2013, 08:44 PM
Whatever you decide to do with it I really like the look and every time I see one I want one of my own!

Fiat500USA
10-31-2013, 11:31 PM
The 35/75 camshaft was a popular street cam for a SOHC Fiat, especially the one sold by Faza. I sold the one I got from Al Cosentino a few years back for $450!

dart1.4t
11-01-2013, 08:04 AM
The 35/75 camshaft was a popular street cam for a SOHC Fiat, especially the one sold by Faza. I sold the one I got from Al Cosentino a few years back for $450!

what does it refer to? i mean i know they don't rate them like american cam grinders, probably the phasing of the opening/closing events instead of lift/duration. but without 4 numbers does that mean it's the same lobe size intake and exhaust?

Fiat500USA
11-01-2013, 08:32 AM
what does it refer to? i mean i know they don't rate them like american cam grinders, probably the phasing of the opening/closing events instead of lift/duration. but without 4 numbers does that mean it's the same lobe size intake and exhaust?

On this cam, the timing and duration are the same for the intake and reversed for the exhaust lobes. That's the case for most Fiat cams back then.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-eaa_7xoAIDc/UnOeBa4l4xI/AAAAAAAAS2g/FogFqpg5-eM/s800/Faza%2520Camshaft%2520Timing_Fiat500USA.jpg

sptcoupe
11-01-2013, 10:34 AM
This refers to the amount of overlap of the intake and exhaust valves - or the degrees of crankshaft rotation during which they are both open. On a 35/75 cam, the intake valve opens 35 degrees BTDC, and the exhaust valve closes 75 degrees ATDC. So, in terms of crankshaft rotation, the intake and exhaust valves are open together for 290 degrees of the total 360 degrees of crankshaft rotation (35+75+180=290). This is a fairly mild profile (most FIAT engines of that era were about 270 degrees of overlap).On the coupe's2.0L full house motor, we are running 304 degrees of overlap. Still very streetable, but pretty spectacular from about 4200 -8000 rpms. It takes a ton of other modifications to run that kind of cam, but for a naturally aspirated street motor, it's the difference between "fast" and "really fast". I think the coupe is pictured somewhere on this site, along with a list of the other mods that make it work for the street.

The ral question on the Dallara is whether to keep it all Italian. I have watched videos of X's with the early version of the V-Tec conversion running 210 HP, and given how light this Dallara is (1794 lbs), that may be enough to put a smile on my face. Right now I am leaning toward a TB intake and Megasquirt system on the 1.5L SOHC motor in there now, or maybe trying to fit a 1.4 MA in there with 200+HP.

Have a look at this X running 210 HP with the early V-Tec conversion and let me know what you think.



http://youtu.be/Z9WE4pNzABE

shagghie
11-01-2013, 11:44 AM
That's a really tough call.... I mean that looks like a really tract-able amount of power and quite fun indeed... like, a LOT of fun maybe? heh.
If you can get to 200/210hp and keep it all Fiat and you think it won't be a PITA to keep tract-able, and parts are available, etc. then there might be inherent value in doing so. But, if you want to go really fast (and in your stable, I think this would be the chassis/platform to really have an all-out fast car), then I don't see any harm in going with a V-Tec or Shelby swap option, and heck if you are going to spend the time/$/effort of up-rating the engine, and you have a window of opportunity to do so, you may as well go for a 240hp target assuming the chassis and tranny can handle it (which after watching some of those hill climb and track events apparently they can for at least ONE race, ha!). The Vtec platform is well understood and developed, and might be the most reliable and tunable platform to go with if targeting higher horsepower. I know the wheels are staggered, but is the rear 8 or 9 inches? You may have to go wider and sacrifice some under-steer for traction.
That car sounds great in the video!


This refers to the amount of overlap of the intake and exhaust valves - or the degrees of crankshaft rotation during which they are both open. On a 35/75 cam, the intake valve opens 35 degrees BTDC, and the exhaust valve closes 75 degrees ATDC. So, in terms of crankshaft rotation, the intake and exhaust valves are open together for 290 degrees of the total 360 degrees of crankshaft rotation (35+75+180=290). This is a fairly mild profile (most FIAT engines of that era were about 270 degrees of overlap).On the coupe's2.0L full house motor, we are running 304 degrees of overlap. Still very streetable, but pretty spectacular from about 4200 -8000 rpms. It takes a ton of other modifications to run that kind of cam, but for a naturally aspirated street motor, it's the difference between "fast" and "really fast". I think the coupe is pictured somewhere on this site, along with a list of the other mods that make it work for the street.

The ral question on the Dallara is whether to keep it all Italian. I have watched videos of X's with the early version of the V-Tec conversion running 210 HP, and given how light this Dallara is (1794 lbs), that may be enough to put a smile on my face. Right now I am leaning toward a TB intake and Megasquirt system on the 1.5L SOHC motor in there now, or maybe trying to fit a 1.4 MA in there with 200+HP.

Have a look at this X running 210 HP with the early V-Tec conversion and let me know what you think.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9WE4pNzABE


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGitoSKQpwU

^^^some nice pics of other k-swapped D's and X's...

Robert Nixon
11-01-2013, 04:10 PM
Very nice! I'm always looking for an X1/9, but the Dallara stuff is even cooler!

For anyone that doesn't know about Mr. Dallara, you need to study up on him! For more info, go to Indianapolis and visit the Dallara "factory" and take the little tour and check out the exhibits. They make all the Indy, Indy Lites, and other bodies.

James Hunt
11-05-2013, 09:24 PM
I think he's going to be dropping something much more powerful in there from either Honda or Shelby.... or just adding a turbo good for 210hp... from a car that weighs 1700 something pounds, too.

One of the bertone techs at my family dealership swapped a 2.5 turbo and transaxle out of a 1988 Daytona pacifica into a 1987 bertone, at first he wanted to do a Peugeot 406 Mi16 swap but he did the g-body motor/transaxle swap instead. Car would run with my big turbo,75 shot, non mca jet 5 speed Conquest tsi.

dart1.4t
11-06-2013, 06:21 AM
On this cam, the timing and duration are the same for the intake and reversed for the exhaust lobes. That's the case for most Fiat cams back then.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-eaa_7xoAIDc/UnOeBa4l4xI/AAAAAAAAS2g/FogFqpg5-eM/s800/Faza%2520Camshaft%2520Timing_Fiat500USA.jpg

this is what i figured. so that would in reality be 35/75-75/35

i was just curious why they only listed one lobe. and i struggled with the assumption it was symetrical because the numbers for the second lobe would still be inverted. not to mention most cam grinders i've used have a prefereance to run the cam a little advanced, especially on an engine without an abundance of valve area. a cam like that might actually be installed something like 39/71 79/31 to preserve a little more compression.

Fiat500USA
11-06-2013, 08:54 AM
this is what i figured. so that would in reality be 35/75-75/35

i was just curious why they only listed one lobe. and i struggled with the assumption it was symetrical because the numbers for the second lobe would still be inverted. not to mention most cam grinders i've used have a prefereance to run the cam a little advanced, especially on an engine without an abundance of valve area. a cam like that might actually be installed something like 39/71 79/31 to preserve a little more compression.

Yeah, it really is a 35/75-75/35 cam but it is called 35/75 for short. By the way, do you see the US cam spec - 10/54-54/10 ? Euro cam specs were like 26/68-68/26 and that is a big reason why the Fiats lost like 20 -30HP (80 hp compared to 100-110 HP) when they came to the US. The first thing you did with a Fiat back in the 70s was desmog it, throw all the crap emissions controls off (sorry about that enviromentalists gr_grin) , then if you had the $$, change the cam and the carb. The carbs here were also tiny compared to Europe - they went from 34mm or larger down to 30mm. The 1290 cc SOHC had a bigger carb in Europe than the US 2L Twin Cams!

The only other thing that was the missing was the dual outlet Euro exhaust manifold and the high compression pistons which were usually like 9.8:1 in Europe. We had 8.0:1! If you made these changes and turned the car back to Euro specs you had a great running, reliable car. Add a hotter cam(s), big Weber and free-flow exhaust and you had one seriously sick Fiat.

Abarthman
12-03-2013, 08:46 PM
Shaggie's dad here. I am basically looking at three options. A turbo package on the FIAT 1.9L SOHC FI motor in it now, good for about 195 HP; a Honda V-TEC making 240 HP; or a tweaked Shelby turbo 2.0L good for about 220 HP. The car reportedly only weighs 1974 lbs. soaking wet, so it won't take much to make it scoot. But then I just got a call about an ABARTH 1.4 Multi taken out of a wrecked car. Hmmmmm.

While the MultiAir Turb is tempting, why not use a more modern turbo version of the original engine?
The SOHC engine used in your X was later used in the FWD Uno Turbo and Punto Turbo cars in Europe. In the Punto GT, it was rated at 135HP (stock). However, in England, tuner versions of those engines show up on UK Ebay all the time with 180HP or so, and over 200 HP is available easily. Google Punto GT tuning and you'll find folks in Europe that still supply that market.

An engine with the ECU and loom can probably be bought for $700 or so, but shipping will be about $1000 more from England. You will also need an Uno GT gearbox to supply a taller ring and pinion for your car, and those are cheap too. I have/ am doing this with my Lancia Scorpion: sourced a Fiat Coupe Turbo engine/ gearbox and had them shipped here. With mods, it will easily put out 325+ hp in a 2400lb car; I'm using 037 style front and rear bumpers and wheels and rear scoops. Should be fun.

sptcoupe
12-04-2013, 09:35 AM
I did some initial research on the Punto motor, but never got past the tranny issue. These are excellent ideas that I will look into. Many thanks.

I have now decided that it has to be a FIAT motor or it just becomes another kit car that is novel and fun to drive, to be sure, but missing the essence of what the car was to the motoring world when it came out. In the interim, I am putting on a custom header and low-restriction exhaust, which will get rid of the cat and hopefully make a few more ponies. It is also getting re-sprayed and the interior is being refreshed, as well. I'll get Shagghie to post some pics when it out of the paint shop. In the meantime, he has a pic of the header. Can you post that please?

Thanks again for the thoughts. We have owned a couple of 128's over the years, but I basically left them stock, and have never had an X, so I'm all ears.

Kungfuty
05-22-2016, 06:43 PM
WOW!! Now that's a beauty! Drop a newer Multi-Air 1.4L Turbo in that bad boy!!!! ;)


Hello Everyone,

I'm new to the forum, but not Fiats as the X showcased here was mine.

I know this is an old thread, but a friend of mine just sent me this link.

Tyrone

Robert Nixon
05-22-2016, 07:48 PM
Tyrone,
Wow, I'm sure lots of great memories with that car!

Welcome to the forum!

Kungfuty
05-22-2016, 09:54 PM
Robert,

Thank you for the welcome ! Ah the memories. Not alot actually, but of the long hours and mistakes along the way. If i still owned it i would redo the whole car over.

My apologies to the starter of the thread. I should have started a new thread to intorduce myself.

shagghie
05-23-2016, 11:53 AM
Robert,

Thank you for the welcome ! Ah the memories. Not alot actually, but of the long hours and mistakes along the way. If i still owned it i would redo the whole car over.

My apologies to the starter of the thread. I should have started a new thread to intorduce myself.

Hi Tyrone! No apologies needed of course! sptcoupe bought the Dallara from you and I'm his son and drive an A500. Great to have you here, welcome! Lots has been done to the Dallara, I should prompt my dad to do an update here! :-)

Kungfuty
05-24-2016, 02:12 AM
Shagghie, Thanks for the welcome. A good friend of mine who is on the Xweb forum gave me the link to the Fiat 500 forum to show me my ole car. The 75 X i'm now doing is going to me a little monster ! No smog which was a battle for me for the Dallara. And those mods were minor.

I would love to see the the upgrades !

Fiat500USA
05-24-2016, 07:21 AM
Hello Everyone,

I'm new to the forum, but not Fiats as the X showcased here was mine.

I know this is an old thread, but a friend of mine just sent me this link.

Tyrone

Welcome to the forum and thanks for creating this cool car.

Kungfuty
05-24-2016, 09:45 PM
Thank you very kindly ! That one was #4. #5 although not a Dallara wanna be will much faster, stop better. They already handle like a go cart.

At the time i was making the Dallara time and finances became a problem. I became self employed for the 2nd time and had to shift both time and money to the new business. I now repair and restore British cars, but my heart belongs to a Fiat x1/9. Million yrs. older, but a million times wiser. Unfortunately the money is in British cars :(