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RoadRace
10-24-2013, 02:15 PM
We finally got a lightly modded customer car in so we could do a dyno. I will post 2 dynos. One is for reference and the other is the RRM Ultimate Tuner on a lightly modded Abarth. The difference is significant for sure. The car has some mods not unlike most of you. It starts out with RRM intake, RRM exhaust and downpipe. Customer did not want us to take it apart and we did not have time for it either. Regardless the RRM Ultimate Tuner works in all conditions and mods but it is finely tuned to work with RRMs mods. Anything you do relates to sensors and airflow so having that flow as close as possible to our products' flow characteristics means you will have a better output and experience. Power is smoother and you will have what really amounts to WRC Rally Car power and driveability. Look at the TORQUE CURVE. This is what you feel and this is what you want in a street car. We are not Drag Racers. The TORQUE comes from the 2000s all the way up to 6000ish. It barely drops. Amazing. I would give up power, number in order to get the curve we have. I am sure the dynos will stir a hornets up nest but don't say we did not supply one. We simply cannot use our car because it is too modded now. Even the turbo itself is massaged and reworked. thanks Joe.

P.S. Underneath it is a dyno for totally STOCK ABARTH and totally STOCK 500 SPORT. Enjoy

ROAD/RACE

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7425/10461976093_094819d28f_c.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/roadrace/10461976093/)
ultimate-package (http://www.flickr.com/photos/roadrace/10461976093/) by ROCKHARD37 (http://www.flickr.com/people/roadrace/), on Flickr

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5482/10461794656_4af9e28684_c.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/roadrace/10461794656/)
stock 500 vs stock abarth (http://www.flickr.com/photos/roadrace/10461794656/) by ROCKHARD37 (http://www.flickr.com/people/roadrace/), on Flickr

shagghie
10-24-2013, 02:25 PM
what do each of the colors correspond to in the top dyno comparison?

redred
10-24-2013, 02:27 PM
what do each of the colors correspond to in the top dyno comparison?

Red & Blue lines are two pulls on a stock Abarth. Left column is Torque, right column is HP. Green traces are with the Ultimate Tuner box installed.

Lower Dyno is for a stock Abarth Vs. Stock 500 Sport. Looks like 3 pulls were done with the Sport and 4 pulls done with the Abarth.

With the Dynapack Dyno system, the numbers are based on "At the wheel" readings and are not corrected for crank HP/TQ.

shagghie
10-24-2013, 02:34 PM
So:
a bone stock AB makes 146lbs and 150WHP.
A lightly modded (intake, exhaust, DP) AB makes 172lbs and 151WHP
and a lightly modded AB WITH Ultimate tune makes 208lbs and 195WHP

This means the Ultimate on a lightly modded car with intake, DP, exhaust makes about 44 more WHP (29% gain), and 36 more FtLbs (21% gain).


Is that right?

redred
10-24-2013, 02:39 PM
So:
a bone stock AB makes 146lbs and 150WHP.
A lightly modded (intake, exhaust, DP) AB makes 172lbs and 151WHP
and a lightly modded AB WITH Ultimate tune makes 208lbs and 195WHP

Is that right?

I believe so, yes. Again that is to the wheels which will be a different reading to the actual crank HP.

shagghie
10-24-2013, 02:45 PM
I believe so, yes. Again that is to the wheels which will be a different reading to the actual crank HP.
Yeah I mean that would put the crank at around 212hp to 220hp depending on what the drivetrain loss % is... Anyone know for our cars?


EDIT: ok weird, looking at the delta between stock rated crank HP (160) and the stock car dyno (150), that would indicate only a ~6% loss, which would mean 195WHP would be closer to 207 crank (not 212 to 220 like I was thinking).

EDIT 2: also weird that the car with the RR exhaust, intake and DP didn't have any additional HP gains over stock. Were these dynos all run on different days/conditions maybe? My intake alone (not RRM, but still) made 12-15hp over stock.

luka
10-24-2013, 02:48 PM
Now will a lightly modded 500T make the same power?

Guest
10-24-2013, 02:49 PM
I thought we were looking at 220bhp? What happened??

shagghie
10-24-2013, 02:53 PM
I thought we were looking at 220bhp? What happened??
I think that was for their own car with massaged turbo internals, no?

ReconTopher
10-24-2013, 03:06 PM
Thank you!

Vaejovis carolinanus aka lowconabarth
10-24-2013, 03:06 PM
Are these dyno pulls done with 91 octane pump gas? So I might get a little better with 93 octane real gas no ethanol?

trevc
10-24-2013, 03:12 PM
Thank you RR for taking the time to do and post these dyno results. Looking forward to experiencing this box myself!

shagghie
10-24-2013, 03:14 PM
I've been looking everywhere for dyno's for the stage 1 and stage 2 RRM boxes to be able to compare the power curve / delivery, but I can't seem to find those now... anyone recall where they were posted?

Abarth Five O
10-24-2013, 03:25 PM
Thanks R/R for confirming your results! Now I can't wait to receive/run my Ultimate 3 with the correct recipe. :thumbsup:

krayzielilsmoki
10-24-2013, 03:34 PM
Wow great gains! good job RRM!

stealthy1ss
10-24-2013, 07:23 PM
I thought we were looking at 220bhp? What happened??

The key is to look at the graphs lines not the power numbers. Also look at the gains between the two. The dyno is JUST a tuning tool that allows you to dial in a tune or shows you gains/losses from modifications.

Guest
10-24-2013, 07:33 PM
The key is to look at the graphs lines not the power numbers. Also look at the gains between the two. The dyno is JUST a tuning tool that allows you to dial in a tune or shows you gains/losses from modifications.

In this instance many requested charts as proof of RRMs claims. I can only speak for myself, and I dont think they backed up their claims - and not sadly for the first time! I want to feel comfortable with vendors to use them but with some I just find it difficult to trust them. Vendor wars are commonplace lately and how they act/react says a lot about them.

Abarth Five O
10-24-2013, 07:55 PM
Dynos are only a barometer to validate some of the vendor's claims, and should not be relied on solely to decide whether or not to buy their product. Reputation, track record, reliability, and service of vendor's products should also be considered. Bottom line: number of units sold and number of satisfied customers who are willing to stick out their neck and offer their honest reviews (which we have already witnessed). Time will tell, but R/R products have already met my criteria.

Abarth619
10-24-2013, 08:02 PM
In this instance many requested charts as proof of RRMs claims. I can only speak for myself, and I dont think they backed up their claims - and not sadly for the first time! I want to feel comfortable with vendors to use them but with some I just find it difficult to trust them. Vendor wars are commonplace lately and how they act/react says a lot about them. I'm curious, what claims didn't they back up past or present? To be completely honest, I haven't heard one bad thing from anyone here or on other forums that has bought a Road Race product. I have every reason to trust them over a lot of others. They are by far the most active vendor here and I applaud them for showing in black and white what their product does. I just don't get the Road Race hate around here, they make really cool products and are in my opinion, one of the best vendors here.

FTY
10-24-2013, 08:16 PM
I'm curious, what claims didn't they back up past or present? To be completely honest, I haven't heard one bad thing from anyone here or on other forums that has bought a Road Race product. I have every reason to trust them over a lot of others. They are by far the most active vendor here and I applaud them for showing in black and white what their product does. I just don't get the Road Race hate around here, they make really cool products and are in my opinion, one of the best vendors here.

I wouldn't put it on my daily driver that I depend on day in and day out (120+miles a day)(27k+ on car), if I felt any different. That should speak volumes on its own. I understand I'm not only an enthusiast here, but I would not recommend (let alone USE) something that was unsafe, not compatible in daily driving scenarios or underperforms. Look at what I carry and what I don't. I don't want constant problematic emails or returns OR unhappy customers/friends...that's why I carry what I carry and its working.

I would much rather be running a few HP less than be broken down on the side of the road. I think most would agree. That's how I look at it and will continue too.

Nothing against you Fidgel, I have lots of love for you, you know that.

RoadRace
10-24-2013, 10:18 PM
Are these dyno pulls done with 91 octane pump gas? So I might get a little better with 93 octane real gas no ethanol?

These are all on 91 octane. 93 octane crew will expect more gains and of course, the box has the built in expandability for methanol injection. It is the only one of its kind so you can run with or without Meth. The outputs for Meth Injection are built in and programmed for a set boost. It is amazing. Next dyno will be with meth or equivalent which could be simulated with race gas. I am quite excited to see what the gains would be then!! ALL IS GOOD and this is the best way to go. Maybe not the biggest power but certainly the POWER CURVE you want. BIG FLAT TORQUE for 3000 rpm range. We are so pleased. THnx


ROAD/RACE

onederer
10-24-2013, 11:15 PM
RRM,

I just wanted to say thanks for providing some more info on your new Box. I think that the power is adequate for my needs.
I really only planned on maybe an intake (EuroCompultion v2) and an ECU. My hopes is that that would put near or slightly over 180 to the ground. Do you think that would be possible with those items?

What I and I'd wager a few other folks would like to see are a comparison of the Original RRM box vs the Stage 3. In an effort to be a better educated buyer.

Again, thanks...even if it felt like pulling teeth to get info out of you guys. yelrotflmao-vi

Guest
10-24-2013, 11:55 PM
I wouldn't put it on my daily driver that I depend on day in and day out (120+miles a day)(27k+ on car), if I felt any different. That should speak volumes on its own. I understand I'm not only an enthusiast here, but I would not recommend (let alone USE) something that was unsafe, not compatible in daily driving scenarios or underperforms. Look at what I carry and what I don't. I don't want constant problematic emails or returns OR unhappy customers/friends...that's why I carry what I carry and its working.

I would much rather be running a few HP less than be broken down on the side of the road. I think most would agree. That's how I look at it and will continue too.

Nothing against you Fidgel, I have lots of love for you, you know that.

Hey everyones entitled to an opinion and others have the right to disagree with that opinion. The claims made about this box were over inflated in terms of "most powerful in the world", "cheaper than the MM" etc from their page one. Talk of 220bhp (cleverly disguised) all fell short here - hell they even try to now concentrate on the torque instead which kinda says a bit! Every brand has fan boys ( you know im one of yours, remember "filter wars"? ).

Now we have a choice in products I expect even more from vendors, back when it was TMC and MM only in the beginning nobody slammed competition or made crazy claims yet now we have people spending lots of hard earned cash on blind faith and crazy unsubstantiated claims! Not knocking them, you know i really couldnt care less who bought what. I had a nice chat with the guy from TMC lately, great guy and answered everything asked. Never once, not once, did he go there with claims or competitive slams - If i didnt have my MM, Id buy his for sure!

As for MM, i know your thoughts, however I have one of the highest mileage Abarths around (56k in Cannuck money) and my car has never ever seen the dealer since birth, never had a CEL - not a thing. Now people here say believe them they own a product, well dont we all? I have a lot of stick time on my products and would I buy anything different if I could? Not a single thing....well apart from my way overpriced trunk pull loop!! That was crazy!

I truly hope this thing is "revolutionary", hell Id buy one too- but I couldnt afford all the bits they need you to buy with it and Id guarantee my car without these necessary add on wouldnt be far behind if at all.

No love lost EC, ill be back when the wife lets me :)

DIVSAbarth500
10-25-2013, 12:13 AM
EDIT: ok weird, looking at the delta between stock rated crank HP (160) and the stock car dyno (150), that would indicate only a ~6% loss, which would mean 195WHP would be closer to 207 crank (not 212 to 220 like I was thinking).


Could also mean that the cars were underrated from the factory.

onederer
10-25-2013, 12:42 AM
Could also mean that the cars were underrated from the factory.


Don't Dynapacks run directly from the hub? so there would be Less power loss since there are no wheel and tires to spin up.
So the 6% figure is pretty close. Also take into account all the other factors that affect all dyno runs (weather, fuel, scaling factors) and I don't think that a roughly 5% difference between claimed hp and dyno'd hp are all that unreasonable.

I can't wait for the comparo that NorCalSS has planned. I'd really like to see how each box compares. As I recall early on another vendor showed 196whp with JUST the MM box and over 185 with just the TMC box.

KKaWing
10-25-2013, 04:37 AM
Perhaps it's time to do what COBB does, use % increase :p

Based on this dyno the package gives roughly 29.3% more power.

Since dyno numbers vary anyway from day to day and even day to night, might as well use a measurement that's scalable to that. I realize percentage increase can change with different atmospheric and other conditions, but it is still much more scalable to a hard HP number.

Thanks for the dyno chart :encouragement:

DIVSAbarth500
10-25-2013, 09:30 AM
Don't Dynapacks run directly from the hub? so there would be Less power loss since there are no wheel and tires to spin up.
So the 6% figure is pretty close. Also take into account all the other factors that affect all dyno runs (weather, fuel, scaling factors) and I don't think that a roughly 5% difference between claimed hp and dyno'd hp are all that unreasonable.


True. However, I have seen Dynojet figures on some stock Abarths of 160hp+ to the wheels. Given the myriad variables with dyno testing, I look at all of these numbers as "approximate" anyway. 6% loss to the hub isn't unreasonable for estimating crank estimates.

LittleEvil
10-25-2013, 09:56 AM
Could also mean that the cars were underrated from the factory.

I dyno'ed stock on a mustang dyno something like 147whp and 158trq so yes it could be underrated.

Ryephile
10-25-2013, 10:56 AM
....

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7425/10461976093_094819d28f_c.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/roadrace/10461976093/)
ultimate-package (http://www.flickr.com/photos/roadrace/10461976093/) by ROCKHARD37 (http://www.flickr.com/people/roadrace/), on Flickr

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5482/10461794656_4af9e28684_c.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/roadrace/10461794656/)
stock 500 vs stock abarth (http://www.flickr.com/photos/roadrace/10461794656/) by ROCKHARD37 (http://www.flickr.com/people/roadrace/), on Flickr

Ok I'll give it up, RRM actually posted a halfway decent set of plots here.

It's of course missing AFR and datalogging to prove they're not fudging the numbers or taking any undue longevity risks, so take these plots with a grain of salt, of course.

What we can gain from this is a few things:
*The RRM intake, exhaust, and downpipe gained 0 HP up top. They did however add about 20 LbFt of torque in the mid-range [3k to 4500 RPM]. From 5500 RPM to redline, there is absolutely no gain over stock hardware. That's interesting. I'll even throw a bone out there and say it's probably not the RRM hardware at fault and it's the factory ECU limiters controlling the torque there.
*With the RRM box, it appears the boost is cranked up. If the ECU torque limiters were at play with just the hardware changes, somehow the RRM box is fooling the ECU to make more torque at the top-end of the RPM band. Very cool. Congrats to RRM for [I]finally bellying up some useful dynos.

One last thing. The Abarth is very slightly underrated from the factory for most driving conditions. 12% drivetrain loss is about right for this car. That puts RRM's box+hardware at about 220HP, as they claim.

RoadRace
10-25-2013, 10:56 AM
The gains and the power characteristics are the KEY thing to this setup. Never mind the expandability of the unit. 15% drive train loss in FWD is industry standard no matter the dyno unit so lets not start dyno science debate. The unit is all that guys speak of it. Not all are fan boys and they have been overwhelmed. Dynoing though is a science and a ton of variables exist. I would not put much weight on them, even ours. It is just one tool to show how things work. You will love this and never look back. You will love the power delivery of this and you will have pulled out car lengths on the next buy before he reaches the peaks that only help at high RPM. I will do another dyno of my car when time permits. It will have the ULTIMATE but it will also have all the goodies. This will be a conversation for sure. Enjoy Ultimate. They are shipping so, believe people not pictures.


ROAD/RACE

RoadRace
10-25-2013, 10:57 AM
Enjoy this for now.

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5533/10464040035_b3a558f596_c.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/roadrace/10464040035/)
RRM Fender Flares (http://www.flickr.com/photos/roadrace/10464040035/) by ROCKHARD37 (http://www.flickr.com/people/roadrace/), on Flickr


RRM

Ryephile
10-25-2013, 11:10 AM
The gains and the power characteristics are the KEY thing to this setup. Never mind the expandability of the unit. 15% drive train loss in FWD is industry standard no matter the dyno unit so lets not start dyno science debate. The unit is all that guys speak of it. Not all are fan boys and they have been overwhelmed. Dynoing though is a science and a ton of variables exist. I would not put much weight on them, even ours. It is just one tool to show how things work. You will love this and never look back. You will love the power delivery of this and you will have pulled out car lengths on the next buy before he reaches the peaks that only help at high RPM. I will do another dyno of my car when time permits. It will have the ULTIMATE but it will also have all the goodies. This will be a conversation for sure. Enjoy Ultimate. They are shipping so, believe people not pictures.


ROAD/RACE

Alright I'll bite again. Can you perhaps shake us off a little bone and tell us how much boost the car is running with your newest Box? Also, like other boxes, does the AFR stay the same as stock? I'm OK with that.

onederer
10-25-2013, 11:35 AM
Question, This Dyno (posted 02-01-2013, 08:53 PM) was for the "Stage 1" box with RRM Exhaust and ECM, correct?
8260
it shows that the car was making 197hp and 231tq. It is the only dyno provided by RRM for the "stage 1" box.


The New ROAD/RACE Ultimate Tuner box shows the following
8261

195HP and 208TQ
It appears that these were both taken on the same dyno.

Am I misreading things? Could someone at RRM please clear the air on this? As it WILL affect my purchasing choice.

jflexe99
10-25-2013, 12:05 PM
If dynos are correct...looks like the ultimate makes more tq lower down/quicker but overall power, if it is actually 23wtq off or so...thats a big jump and for 150 less. Plus it is a safer run(as my mind tells me) for the car.

I like the tq curve in the Ultimate, but I think id rather have overall 20wtq more or so :) Anyone else?

Ryephile
10-25-2013, 01:26 PM
Question, This Dyno (posted 02-01-2013, 08:53 PM) was for the "Stage 1" box with RRM Exhaust and ECM, correct?
8260
it shows that the car was making 197hp and 231tq. It is the only dyno provided by RRM for the "stage 1" box.


The New ROAD/RACE Ultimate Tuner box shows the following
8261

195HP and 208TQ
It appears that these were both taken on the same dyno.

Am I misreading things? Could someone at RRM please clear the air on this? As it WILL affect my purchasing choice.

That other dyno was a major point of frustration and a big reason RRM has the reputation they do on this forum. Even in private they never actually explained what each of those pulls were. The assumption is it's various numbers dialed into their old box, but that's not confirmed, let alone which number correlates to which color plot. It was a clusterf*ck.

IMO, if RRM wants to cleanly move forward, they need to retract that old dyno plot, because it makes them look incompetent.

Ryephile
10-25-2013, 01:35 PM
Alright I'll bite again. Can you perhaps shake us off a little bone and tell us how much boost the car is running with your newest Box? Also, like other boxes, does the AFR stay the same as stock? I'm OK with that.

Found via Musicsurf's testimonial on RRM's website that this box holds at 24 PSI of boost. That's probably a good upper limit for decent reliability. Any more than that and you're just making more heat anyway, as this turbo is being pushed pretty hard at 220HP.

I'd like to know why you have to wait 80 miles to floor it. Does the fuel trim have to adjust, and if you don't wait it'll run lean and go KA-BLAMO?

shagghie
10-25-2013, 02:02 PM
Found via Musicsurf's testimonial on RRM's website that this box holds at 24 PSI of boost. That's probably a good upper limit for decent reliability. Any more than that and you're just making more heat anyway, as this turbo is being pushed pretty hard at 220HP.

I'd like to know why you have to wait 80 miles to floor it. Does the fuel trim have to adjust, and if you don't wait it'll run lean and go KA-BLAMO?

I have been trying to figure this one out too. I haven't waited the last three times I've reset my ECU.. and I flog the crap out of it. No Ka-Blamo... just wham bam thank you mam-o.

Alas, I swear I remember a post with Rob saying something about 25 peak, and 20 sustained boost for this Ultimate version. This was back when it was being 'leaked' out slowly before the final announcement and product release/availability. Maybe it was on the 'Fastest Abarth in America' post?

FTY
10-25-2013, 03:43 PM
I have been trying to figure this one out too. I haven't waited the last three times I've reset my ECU.. and I flog the crap out of it. No Ka-Blamo... just wham bam thank you mam-o.

Alas, I swear I remember a post with Rob saying something about 25 peak, and 20 sustained boost for this Ultimate version. This was back when it was being 'leaked' out slowly before the final announcement and product release/availability. Maybe it was on the 'Fastest Abarth in America' post?

I'm the same as you I haven't waited ever...I decided to do it right this week, first time I have driven in normal mode since I bought the car, it was torture but...seems power delivery is smoother, similar peaks in power, but just smoother delivery. I drove one way to work 62 miles, normal mode under 4k. Then the way home sport mode and felt like power was the smoothest its been so far.

Abarth Five O
10-25-2013, 04:40 PM
That other dyno was a major point of frustration and a big reason RRM has the reputation they do on this forum. Even in private they never actually explained what each of those pulls were. The assumption is it's various numbers dialed into their old box, but that's not confirmed, let alone which number correlates to which color plot. It was a clusterf*ck.

IMO, if RRM wants to cleanly move forward, they need to retract that old dyno plot, because it makes them look incompetent.

Since in your opinion R/R is incompetent (even in private), why bother and continue to hijack their threads and criticize? It is counterproductive to the benefit of the forum, imo. Obviously, you will never be satisfied with their answers or buy their products. Be that as it may, since you profess to know a lot about our cars (i.e. your evap reroute mod) it would be more productive, imo, if you started your own threads on other mods you have done to your car, companies and products you like and recommend to forum members so we can all benefit from your knowledge. Thanks for your consideration.

shagghie
10-25-2013, 04:49 PM
I'm the same as you I haven't waited ever...I decided to do it right this week, first time I have driven in normal mode since I bought the car, it was torture but...seems power delivery is smoother, similar peaks in power, but just smoother delivery. I drove one way to work 62 miles, normal mode under 4k. Then the way home sport mode and felt like power was the smoothest its been so far.

Well that testimony alone is worth it to me then to try it again.... smooth power is worthy of 70 miles... for me that's an entire week's worth of commuting... pure torture!
Thank you very much...that's the first time anyone's ever offered a decent reason to wait 70 miles. In fact the rush of power i felt when i did NOT wait perhaps was just an utter lack of smoothness? heh.

shagghie
10-25-2013, 05:00 PM
Since in your opinion R/R is incompetent (even in private), why bother and continue to hijack their threads and criticize? It is counterproductive to the benefit of the forum, imo. Obviously, you will never be satisfied with their answers or buy their products. Be that as it may, since you profess to know a lot about our cars (i.e. your evap reroute mod) it would be more productive, imo, if you started your own threads on other mods you have done to your car, companies and products you like and recommend to forum members so we can all benefit from your knowledge. Thanks for your consideration.

I don't think he's hijacking anything... imHo, he's one of the few authors here that contributes useful knowledge and asks good questions from the vendors in the first place. I remember asking RR about the many different colors too when those first dyno plots came out... It's not a dig against RR, it's simply a matter of wanting to know and make educated decisions. While I'm not a dedicated RR fanboy (there's actually nothing wrong with being a vendor fan boy either imo), I'm also not against them and think they are doing tons of things right. Dyno's doesn't seem to be one of them, but that's OK, b/c as Rob points out... focus on the feedback from the other drivers... for many this is MORE than enough reason to buy a part. For others, they like to see and *understand* data, and have it presented in a way that makes sense. I'm somewhere in between. While I recommened the RR Stage 3 to my own dad to get, I haven't made the same decision for myself because I am wanting to get the most power possible out of the tune. The RR S3 might be it for all I know..I'm just not there yet. And it's questions and input like that from Ryephile that I value most in this situation. He didn't call RR incompetent...he just said that the old dyno should be retracted because the crazy color lines make them *look* incompetent. To me that is being constructive and trying to help the vendor out. He's also been quick to point out other positives, and also has given RR a few 'outs' WRT to their intake/exhaust/DP not making any additional HP over stock. That's hardly criticizing their parts...that's giving them a fair chance that they deserve to respond to an outstanding question we all must be thinking right about now. (it's the first thing I noticed when looking at the dyno charts).

I appreciate your perspective too Abarth Five 0...and you know i'm a huge fan of your build and we've shared a similar journey early on with these cars. I just don't want to see Ryephile beat up over asking good questions and bringing a lot of industry /technical knowledge to threads like this one.

Ryephile
10-25-2013, 05:18 PM
Thanks Shaggie. RRM made a big step in the right direction today. I'll admit I ask tough questions and ask for details that make vendors and tuners squirm. There's a balance between a vendor trying to prove their product is safe and well engineered and being deflective and coming off flippant. I'm not asking for some magical open-book full-disclosure, just enough to prove it's a solid well-engineered product. I'm NOT going to buy junk for my cars anymore, my years of experience and thousands of wasted dollars buying junk are through. I'm still a consumer, but I'm not going to give it up like the queen on prom night just because it's implied good and "everyone is doing it".

So far the takeaway on this piggyback is:
*same boost threshold as stock, a plus
*Nice flat torque shelf
*Great peak numbers, great area under the curve
*Overall a big improvement over the question marks the old box had

Things that IMO would make it an even more irresistible product:
*Group buy or something, the price *is* a bit steep for what it is. If I were running their show I'd replace their other box at the same price point *and* offer a discounted upgrade path for those that have the old box. Then again, that may sell too many, LOL.
*Verify the 80 mile no-WOT is for some good reason
*Verify the AFR's are kept stock or at least safe. Anyone with a datalogger that has this box can do this, by the way.

Abarth Five O
10-25-2013, 05:55 PM
I don't think he's hijacking anything... imHo, he's one of the few authors here that contributes useful knowledge and asks good questions from the vendors in the first place. I remember asking RR about the many different colors too when those first dyno plots came out... It's not a dig against RR, it's simply a matter of wanting to know and make educated decisions. While I'm not a dedicated RR fanboy (there's actually nothing wrong with being a vendor fan boy either imo), I'm also not against them and think they are doing tons of things right. Dyno's doesn't seem to be one of them, but that's OK, b/c as Rob points out... focus on the feedback from the other drivers... for many this is MORE than enough reason to buy a part. For others, they like to see and *understand* data, and have it presented in a way that makes sense. I'm somewhere in between. While I recommened the RR Stage 3 to my own dad to get, I haven't made the same decision for myself because I am wanting to get the most power possible out of the tune. The RR S3 might be it for all I know..I'm just not there yet. And it's questions and input like that from Ryephile that I value most in this situation. He didn't call RR incompetent...he just said that the old dyno should be retracted because the crazy color lines make them *look* incompetent. To me that is being constructive and trying to help the vendor out. He's also been quick to point out other positives, and also has given RR a few 'outs' WRT to their intake/exhaust/DP not making any additional HP over stock. That's hardly criticizing their parts...that's giving them a fair chance that they deserve to respond to an outstanding question we all must be thinking right about now. (it's the first thing I noticed when looking at the dyno charts).

I appreciate your perspective too Abarth Five 0...and you know i'm a huge fan of your build and we've shared a similar journey early on with these cars. I just don't want to see Ryephile beat up over asking good questions and bringing a lot of industry /technical knowledge to threads like this one.

Shagghie, thanks for your comments and compliment. Your car is looking fine too! To the uninformed like myself, it would help if he would establish some creditability on the forum i.e. background, experience, types of mods done, spent thousands of $ on vrs. mods, etc. to make a believer out of us so we can take his comments more seriously. Perhaps you can point us in the right direction?

shagghie
10-25-2013, 06:46 PM
Things that IMO would make it an even more irresistible product:
*Group buy or something, the price *is* a bit steep for what it is. If I were running their show I'd replace their other box at the same price point *and* offer a discounted upgrade path for those that have the old box. Then again, that may sell too many, LOL.
*Verify the 80 mile no-WOT is for some good reason
*Verify the AFR's are kept stock or at least safe. Anyone with a datalogger that has this box can do this, by the way.

That's the one I'm most interested in...everything else I can accept a degree of 'blind faith' and take some risk.

Would someone else who is running Ultimate stage G mind firing up Dash Command or Torque for us and grab some AFR's on 3rd/4th pulls?

mneuman916
10-25-2013, 07:45 PM
That's the one I'm most interested in...everything else I can accept a degree of 'blind faith' and take some risk.

Would someone else who is running Ultimate stage G mind firing up Dash Command or Torque for us and grab some AFR's on 3rd/4th pulls?

I would be happy to do this, as I also have the same question. Alas, I still wait for mine to ship. The wait is killing me... UGH! :blue:

musicsurf
10-25-2013, 09:08 PM
That's the one I'm most interested in...everything else I can accept a degree of 'blind faith' and take some risk.

Would someone else who is running Ultimate stage G mind firing up Dash Command or Torque for us and grab some AFR's on 3rd/4th pulls?

I don't know if I can find anywhere to ring out 4th gear, but I will do some pulls and datalog the afr with torque sometime tomorrow or Sunday.

Gigante
10-26-2013, 12:41 AM
Hello everyone, I just want to chime in here as being a consumer who has experience with the RRMS ECM V1 and now the Ultimate. I have very similar mods as Shaggie and the first RRMS V1 was a great addition to my mods. Like Shaggie, I waited and waited for something to come along that would wow me for performance gains with my existing mods.

After reading so many post about the other two ECM's I still waited then RRMS began posting about their ECM. I decided to give it a try after having a great experience with their offerings for our 500c. I also appreciate that you can speak with Rob directly if you have questions and the fact they track the shop Abarth with all of the products they sell - I find that accessibility really nice and comforting.

I always did the painful 80 mile drive under 4k as RRMS recommended. I want to experience what they claim so I followed their lead and have never been dissapointed.

RRMS V1 was really nice and the torque was amazing to me over what I previously enjoyed - any time I posted this was what I raved about. The pull (torque steer) did drop off about 6k as I no longer felt the pull. I have the opportunity to fuel up with 93 OCT and always had the setting on #9 (Maximum).

RRMS Ultimate was my next addition and the torque was what I immediately noticed as being different - it came on sooner and continues all the way to redline. I easily hit over 60 MPH in second gear. The mid range punch is really nice and also different from V1 as the power comes on strong and the RPM's climb quickly to redline.

Recently, I installed my SuperSprint Catted DP and exhaust and began experiencing some hesitation in the higher RPM'S . After reading Torqueme's post, sharing the stock actuator is fine as is and realizing RRMS also have a stock actuator I went here to see If I could correct the concern. I took out my FWGA and opened it up to snap pictures to send to Forge. After we reviewed them together they told me to install the yellow spring and I did. After another 80 mile reset the car was running smoother and the hesitation was gone; however, my boost was down as well to 21 lbs - peak and 19 sustained. I called Forge again and they are sending me the blue spring to try- once I get the blue spring and install it I will share my results. As of Tuesday, I have removed the FWGA and reinstalled the stock actuator - the performance has greatly improved and the car is running flawlessly and sounds reallly aggressive. The boost did not increase but the car is really pulling nicely, honestly I prefer how it's driving now - the torque is really impressive and the wheels break loose again from a rolling start to the exstent you have to back off the accelerator a bit or continue with wheel spin and struggle with torque steer.

This has taught me something here, if I expect the same or close to the same results as RRMS claims then I should follow their lead with mods and or live with my varied results as the ECM's they offer are tuned with the products they sell. This may have even saved me some money.

I have been extremely busy with work, I am thankful for it but just a bit overwhelmed. I have my ATM boost gauge installed and I have Dash Command on my IPAD with a mount in my car and I have access to a few roads that I can wind out 4th gear. I will try and do this for all of you and share the details in hopes of answering some of your questions.

All I can say is the car is running great and sounds just as fabulous. These little cars are awesome and it's great to belong to a community of enthusiasts who share the passion and earned knowledge where we can discuss, debate and challenge one another so long as it remains constructive and not personal. We are all here to learn and we only want the best for our hard earned money and for our cars so they remain efficient and long lasting.

Thank you everyone for your time and I will keep you updated as best as I can. Good night.

Gigante

RoadRace
10-26-2013, 04:44 PM
Waiting the 80 miles has nothing to do with reliability. It will not BLOW UP in any condition. The mileage does allow for the stock ECU to learn, not our ECM. Does that make sense?

ROAD/RACE

RoadRace
10-26-2013, 04:48 PM
AfRs will be the same as stock. Many guys did the comparison already. It does run (stock) lean. 13s are normal because this engine is direct injected engine. People forget these engines are really a new generation and they are designed to run at a leaner AFR than say a 2005 Mitsu EVO or Subaru.


ROAD/RACE

musicsurf
10-26-2013, 04:59 PM
Not the prettiest graph, but here is my AFR from a 3rd gear pull. I rolled into WOT at about 3k rpm.
8269

ABARTH TAMER
10-26-2013, 05:37 PM
AfRs will be the same as stock. Many guys did the comparison already. It does run (stock) lean. 13s are normal because this engine is direct injected engine. People forget these engines are really a new generation and they are designed to run at a leaner AFR than say a 2005 Mitsu EVO or Subaru.


ROAD/RACECheck again, believe the engine is port injected.

ScorpionSkins.com
10-26-2013, 06:16 PM
13s are normal because this engine is direct injected engine.

http://s15.postimg.org/fww4hmlij/cappic.jpg

FTY
10-26-2013, 08:06 PM
The Abarth is currently port injected...they have future plans to make it direct injected. The 1.8L is direct injected on the 4C.

But AFRs stay in the 13s similar to stock.

Guest
10-26-2013, 08:38 PM
Not again :(

frank283
10-27-2013, 02:15 AM
http://images.search.yahoo.com/images/view;_ylt=AwrTcYC7rmxSSO0A93SJzbkF;_ylu=X3oDMTFzcm prbGhhBHNlYwNzcgRzbGsDaW1nBG9pZAMxOGZkMGJkOTg2NzFm MGVkZWY3NTFiMGVkY2MyMmYzNgRncG9zAzIyOA--?back=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.search.yahoo.com%2Fsearc h%2Fimages%3Fp%3Dabarth%2Bengine%26fr%3Dyfp-t-600-1-s%26fr2%3Dpiv-web%26tab%3Dorganic%26ri%3D228&w=1023&h=705&imgurl=www.diariomotor.com%2Fimagenes%2F2011%2F11% 2Fabarth1_1280x882-1024x705.jpg&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.diariomotor.com%2F2011%2F11% 2F16%2Fel-abarth-500-llega-a-estados-unidos-en-el-salon-de-los-angeles%2F2012-fiat-500-abarths-1-4-liter-multiair%25c2%25a8-turbo-engine%2F&size=137.2KB&name=2012+Fiat+500+Abarth%E2%80%99s+1.4-liter+MultiAir%C2%A8+Turbo+%3Cb%3Eengine+%3C%2Fb%3 E%28ver+imagen+...&p=abarth+engine&oid=18fd0bd98671f0edef751b0edcc22f36&fr2=piv-web&fr=yfp-t-600-1-s&tt=2012+Fiat+500+Abarth%E2%80%99s+1.4-liter+MultiAir%C2%A8+Turbo+%3Cb%3Eengine+%3C%2Fb%3 E%28ver+imagen+...&b=211&ni=128&no=228&ts=&tab=organic&sigr=152t3263d&sigb=13cl2jsja&sigi=12286nm8p&.crumb=XH8BBkZG.SK&fr=yfp-t-600-1-s

RoadRace
10-27-2013, 01:30 PM
Sorry may have my cars confused on the injection. There are other engines we are doing now that are GDI- DIRECT. That said, I do have that wrong but the point is that the this engine is designed to run lean as compared to engines we all know from a few years ago. Things change quickly in this business. In the last couple years, many engines are trying to maintain 14.7. Even the new JEEP 3.6 liter V- 6 stays at 14.7 to 1 for most of the power band. When I first installed a wideband on it, I thought it was broken. It kept reading 14.7....... In the end it was working perfectly fine. Stock AFRs are about the same so no need to be concerned. MutlAir, other characteristics, sensors etc.... make this car want to run at 14.7 until it reaches a certain point or sees certain conditions. This is why you see number start off lean. Of course it moves to richer conditions as it see boost/load/rpm. This is all within the normal parameters of the engine. Again, it has been compared to stock by many people and it behaves the same way.


ROAD/RACE

shagghie
10-27-2013, 04:18 PM
fixed http://www.diariomotor.com/imagenes/2011/11/abarth1_1280x882-1024x705.jpg


http://images.search.yahoo.com/images/view;_ylt=AwrTcYC7rmxSSO0A93SJzbkF;_ylu=X3oDMTFzcm prbGhhBHNlYwNzcgRzbGsDaW1nBG9pZAMxOGZkMGJkOTg2NzFm MGVkZWY3NTFiMGVkY2MyMmYzNgRncG9zAzIyOA--?back=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.search.yahoo.com%2Fsearc h%2Fimages%3Fp%3Dabarth%2Bengine%26fr%3Dyfp-t-600-1-s%26fr2%3Dpiv-web%26tab%3Dorganic%26ri%3D228&w=1023&h=705&imgurl=www.diariomotor.com%2Fimagenes%2F2011%2F11% 2Fabarth1_1280x882-1024x705.jpg&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.diariomotor.com%2F2011%2F11% 2F16%2Fel-abarth-500-llega-a-estados-unidos-en-el-salon-de-los-angeles%2F2012-fiat-500-abarths-1-4-liter-multiair%25c2%25a8-turbo-engine%2F&size=137.2KB&name=2012+Fiat+500+Abarth%E2%80%99s+1.4-liter+MultiAir%C2%A8+Turbo+%3Cb%3Eengine+%3C%2Fb%3 E%28ver+imagen+...&p=abarth+engine&oid=18fd0bd98671f0edef751b0edcc22f36&fr2=piv-web&fr=yfp-t-600-1-s&tt=2012+Fiat+500+Abarth%E2%80%99s+1.4-liter+MultiAir%C2%A8+Turbo+%3Cb%3Eengine+%3C%2Fb%3 E%28ver+imagen+...&b=211&ni=128&no=228&ts=&tab=organic&sigr=152t3263d&sigb=13cl2jsja&sigi=12286nm8p&.crumb=XH8BBkZG.SK&fr=yfp-t-600-1-s

shagghie
10-27-2013, 04:22 PM
Not the prettiest graph, but here is my AFR from a 3rd gear pull. I rolled into WOT at about 3k rpm.
8269

AFR graphs are tough aren't they? the averages don't even matter...it's the one momentary outlier condition when it goes really lean that matters. :-) Seems like quite a lot of variation though overall, no?

Reposting here for sake of ease:

http://www.fiat500usaforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=8269&d=1382821135

Abarth Phreak
10-27-2013, 04:29 PM
For what its worth and not surprising, many of today's newer cars are being designed "leaner" to help achieve the fuel economy standards being imposed.

jflexe99
10-28-2013, 03:01 PM
I wish some people with RRM ECM stage 2 and the new Ultimate would post a video or two on youtube to see acceleration via a dash cam. I have seen another tune via dash cam from about 30-90mph.

Why aren't people posting videos of the new improved Abarths? I would LOVE to see a comparison video between stock and ECM 0-60, 20-80 and so on. Why aren't people?!

Ryephile
10-28-2013, 04:01 PM
AfRs will be the same as stock. Many guys did the comparison already. It does run (stock) lean. 13s are normal because this engine is port injected engine. People forget these engines are really a new generation and they are designed to run at a leaner AFR than say a 2005 Mitsu EVO or Subaru.


ROAD/RACE

Thanks for the response. FIFY re: port injection. The reason for the seemingly "lean" AFRs is because this engine has very fast flame propagation and does not require copious amounts of chemical quench with excess fuel like a 4B11T.


If anyone wants to really blow their mind, take a look at Audi's new EA888 1.8T in the euro-market A4. It runs stoich 100% of the time; zero enrichment anywhere, even at WOT redline. The wonders of science :)

FTY
10-29-2013, 09:31 AM
Thanks for the response. FIFY re: port injection. The reason for the seemingly "lean" AFRs is because this engine has very fast flame propagation and does not require copious amounts of chemical quench with excess fuel like a 4B11T.


If anyone wants to really blow their mind, take a look at Audi's new EA888 1.8T in the euro-market A4. It runs stoich 100% of the time; zero enrichment anywhere, even at WOT redline. The wonders of science :)

I really like that new Audi Motor...good stock power for a 1.8T.

RoadRace
10-30-2013, 12:02 PM
Thanks for the response. FIFY re: port injection. The reason for the seemingly "lean" AFRs is because this engine has very fast flame propagation and does not require copious amounts of chemical quench with excess fuel like a 4B11T.


If anyone wants to really blow their mind, take a look at Audi's new EA888 1.8T in the euro-market A4. It runs stoich 100% of the time; zero enrichment anywhere, even at WOT redline. The wonders of science :)

Thanks. People will benefit from this explanation greatly, even reflash guys. They do not realize that the engines are running close to run stoich lets say, 70-80% of the time. This is why we see what we see. Thank You for the Post. It is the most important post in a long time on these boards.


ROAD/RACE

Gigante
10-31-2013, 04:27 PM
Hello everyone, I just want to chime in here as being a consumer who has experience with the RRMS ECM V1 and now the Ultimate. I have very similar mods as Shaggie and the first RRMS V1 was a great addition to my mods. Like Shaggie, I waited and waited for something to come along that would wow me for performance gains with my existing mods.

After reading so many post about the other two ECM's I still waited then RRMS began posting about their ECM. I decided to give it a try after having a great experience with their offerings for our 500c. I also appreciate that you can speak with Rob directly if you have questions and the fact they track the shop Abarth with all of the products they sell - I find that accessibility really nice and comforting.

I always did the painful 80 mile drive under 4k as RRMS recommended. I want to experience what they claim so I followed their lead and have never been dissapointed.

RRMS V1 was really nice and the torque was amazing to me over what I previously enjoyed - any time I posted this was what I raved about. The pull (torque steer) did drop off about 6k as I no longer felt the pull. I have the opportunity to fuel up with 93 OCT and always had the setting on #9 (Maximum).

RRMS Ultimate was my next addition and the torque was what I immediately noticed as being different - it came on sooner and continues all the way to redline. I easily hit over 60 MPH in second gear. The mid range punch is really nice and also different from V1 as the power comes on strong and the RPM's climb quickly to redline.

Recently, I installed my SuperSprint Catted DP and exhaust and began experiencing some hesitation in the higher RPM'S . After reading Torqueme's post, sharing the stock actuator is fine as is and realizing RRMS also have a stock actuator I went here to see If I could correct the concern. I took out my FWGA and opened it up to snap pictures to send to Forge. After we reviewed them together they told me to install the yellow spring and I did. After another 80 mile reset the car was running smoother and the hesitation was gone; however, my boost was down as well to 21 lbs - peak and 19 sustained. I called Forge again and they are sending me the blue spring to try- once I get the blue spring and install it I will share my results. As of Tuesday, I have removed the FWGA and reinstalled the stock actuator - the performance has greatly improved and the car is running flawlessly and sounds reallly aggressive. The boost did not increase but the car is really pulling nicely, honestly I prefer how it's driving now - the torque is really impressive and the wheels break loose again from a rolling start to the exstent you have to back off the accelerator a bit or continue with wheel spin and struggle with torque steer.

This has taught me something here, if I expect the same or close to the same results as RRMS claims then I should follow their lead with mods and or live with my varied results as the ECM's they offer are tuned with the products they sell. This may have even saved me some money.

I have been extremely busy with work, I am thankful for it but just a bit overwhelmed. I have my ATM boost gauge installed and I have Dash Command on my IPAD with a mount in my car and I have access to a few roads that I can wind out 4th gear. I will try and do this for all of you and share the details in hopes of answering some of your questions.

All I can say is the car is running great and sounds just as fabulous. These little cars are awesome and it's great to belong to a community of enthusiasts who share the passion and earned knowledge where we can discuss, debate and challenge one another so long as it remains constructive and not personal. We are all here to learn and we only want the best for our hard earned money and for our cars so they remain efficient and long lasting.

Thank you everyone for your time and I will keep you updated as best as I can. Good night.

Gigante

Hello everyone, I just want to follow up with you as I was able to get out and do some nice burst on our country roads and capture it on a GoPro. I have more video than this and I have shared it with a few of you. Rather than bore you with the slow bits, I thought I would share a few of the highlights. Please note that I drive these roads all the time and several of you members have been with me on these same roads.

I did not do any drag race launches as it's really too violent for my liking, I prefer diving in and out of corners and winding out 3rd and 4th gears. Anyway, the car is pulling really nice with my mods and the Ultimate brought it all together. Please be sure to notice in the second vid how the boost gauge drops momentarily then goes right back to 21 lbs. sustained - I was able to get to triple digits safely and I do not recommend this to anyone, I was just out having fun in my car and want to share what RRMS has brought to our community by way of the Ultimate ECM. Also, the CEL you see on my dash is for the TPMS as it was 35 degrees and it set off for my front left wheel TPMS.

Please let me know if you have any questions and thank you in advance for your time.

Gigante,

https://www.dropbox.com/s/2xus802h6wm5kh9/SSEDD22.mp4
https://www.dropbox.com/s/rwb9w589nxk53dw/SSEDD23.mp4

shagghie
10-31-2013, 04:54 PM
Hello everyone, I just want to follow up with you as I was able to get out and do some nice burst on our country roads and capture it on a GoPro. I have more video than this and I have shared it with a few of you. Rather than bore you with the slow bits, I thought I would share a few of the highlights. Please note that I drive these roads all the time and several of you members have been with me on these same roads.

I did not do any drag race launches as it'r really too violent for my liking, I prefer diving in and out of corners and winding out 3rd and 4th gears. Anyway, the car is pulling really nice with my mods and the Ultimate brought it all together. Please be sure to notice in the second vid how the boost gauge drops momentarily then goes right back to 21 lbs. sustained - I was able to get to triple digits safely and I do not recommend this to anyone, I was just out having fun in my car and want to share what RRMS has brought to our community by way of the Ultimate ECM. Also, the CEL you see on my dash is for the TPMS as it was 35 degree and it won't off for my front left wheel.

Please let me know if you have any questions and thank you in advance for your time.

Gigante,

https://www.dropbox.com/s/2xus802h6wm5kh9/SSEDD22.mp4
https://www.dropbox.com/s/rwb9w589nxk53dw/SSEDD23.mp4

SS exhaust sounds SOOOOO good! Would love to see some drive-bys with the RRM and that exhaust together in full song! Sweeeeeeeeeeet! Be careful out there...I can tell you are very comfortable with those roads and know them well, but wow yes... fast!

DIVSAbarth500
10-31-2013, 09:57 PM
Hello everyone, I just want to follow up with you as I was able to get out and do some nice burst on our country roads and capture it on a GoPro. I have more video than this and I have shared it with a few of you. Rather than bore you with the slow bits, I thought I would share a few of the highlights. Please note that I drive these roads all the time and several of you members have been with me on these same roads.

I did not do any drag race launches as it'r really too violent for my liking, I prefer diving in and out of corners and winding out 3rd and 4th gears. Anyway, the car is pulling really nice with my mods and the Ultimate brought it all together. Please be sure to notice in the second vid how the boost gauge drops momentarily then goes right back to 21 lbs. sustained - I was able to get to triple digits safely and I do not recommend this to anyone, I was just out having fun in my car and want to share what RRMS has brought to our community by way of the Ultimate ECM. Also, the CEL you see on my dash is for the TPMS as it was 35 degree and it won't off for my front left wheel.

Please let me know if you have any questions and thank you in advance for your time.

Gigante,

https://www.dropbox.com/s/2xus802h6wm5kh9/SSEDD22.mp4
https://www.dropbox.com/s/rwb9w589nxk53dw/SSEDD23.mp4

I have to move to the countryside!!

Gigante
10-31-2013, 10:11 PM
SS exhaust sounds SOOOOO good! Would love to see some drive-bys with the RRM and that exhaust together in full song! Sweeeeeeeeeeet! Be careful out there...I can tell you are very comfortable with those roads and know them well, but wow yes... fast!

Hey Shagghie, I just figured out a way to mount the GoPro to my tripod. Twek is coming up from NC this weekend so I am sure we can do a few drive-by's on Sunday. Yup, I can't even think about hitting a dear in our Fiats at 100 MPH. I know these back roads very well, id be a good moon shine runner(lol). I will post more this weekend and safety comes first for me during my outings.

Take care buddy and thanks for looking.

Gigante

Gigante
10-31-2013, 10:15 PM
I have to move to the countryside!!

Hey DiVSA500, there is nothing like living in the country. Nature is truly awesome and the roads can be amazing.

Thank you for looking.
Gigante

FTY
10-31-2013, 11:58 PM
Fantastic video Edwin. Boost holds great. Looks like an absolute blast down those country roads!!!

Gigante
11-01-2013, 07:07 AM
Fantastic video Edwin. Boost holds great. Looks like an absolute blast down those country roads!!!

Thank you Chris, the Ultimate is working really nice. the boost is holding really well and you can see this in the second vid in between my third and forth gear shifts (redline) the BG shows the needle hold, reduce then go right back to where it was - crazy pull is all you feel in the car at that speed. The country roads are awesome you just have to clear them for deer this time of year.

Use this however you wish.

Thank you,
Edwin

shagghie
11-01-2013, 11:50 AM
Hey Shagghie, I just figured out a way to mount the GoPro to my tripod. Twek is coming up from NC this weekend so I am sure we can do a few drive-by's on Sunday. Yup, I can't even think about hitting a dear in our Fiats at 100 MPH. I know these back roads very well, id be a good moon shine runner(lol). I will post more this weekend and safety comes first for me during my outings.

Take care buddy and thanks for looking.

Gigante

Speaking of the gopro...i have a GP3 black coming in the mail... I need to ask, how/where did you mount your GP for the videos you posted above? That might make a great place to mount mind for auto-x assuming i can see far enough down the road to see what lines I should have been looking for upstream. Is that a special mounting asparagus?

EDIT: Apparatus, not asparagus... autocorrect humor!

jflexe99
11-01-2013, 01:47 PM
Thank you Gigante! Finally some acceleration videos of power in movement.

Quick Q, what go mods do you have on the car? Thanks!

Gigante
11-01-2013, 03:35 PM
Speaking of the gopro...i have a GP3 black coming in the mail... I need to ask, how/where did you mount your GP for the videos you posted above? That might make a great place to mount mind for auto-x assuming i can see far enough down the road to see what lines I should have been looking for upstream. Is that a special mounting asparagus?

EDIT: Apparatus, not asparagus... autocorrect humor!

Hey Shagghie, no worries (the auto correct has caused me many miscommunications too). I used the GoPro suction cup mount and placed it on the sunroof glass. The other thing I did was flip the lens in the setting, you can change the setting (up) based on the GoPro orientation. I also learned that you can flip this in editing so it's not so important. I also have a head band mount - it's pretty funny. I will try this over the weekend to record some fly by's and exhaust sound standing behind the car. I will snap a picture and text it to you.

Gigante.

RoadRace
11-01-2013, 03:41 PM
Internals weer not massaged. So dynos were dynos. Now we are going there. We needed to finish all products that are relevant to product first.


ALSO



Methanol Kit for Ultimate tuner is coming in 2 weeks. Again it is not needed but it is another key to the kingdom. Expect it shortly. oxes are shipping today. Getting our name on the box took a little longer than we though is all. Sorry for the delay. Please get this one because it will be set up for your car and your tune already. thnx


ROAD/RACE

Gigante
11-01-2013, 03:48 PM
Thank you Gigante! Finally some acceleration videos of power in movement.

Quick Q, what go mods do you have on the car? Thanks!

Hello Jflex99, thank you for the kind words. In addition to the Ultimate, I have a full SuperSprint Turboback (200 cell) DP & exhaust system - 2.25" all the way back to the rear axle then it decreases to just under 2", I also have MPxTB, Boomba Check Valve - boost leak mod, FBOV, ATM HCI. I removed the FWGA as the car was boosting 24 psi and it did not feel correct with my mods - had some hesitation. I have been working with Forge on a correction with various springs, others here have had a similar experience with other boxes and the FWGA. I figured since RRMS did not have one I replaced it with the stock WGA and the car is running much, much better the hesitation is gone. Also, I broke off the glue from the arm on the stock WGA and it had the equivalent of four full turns of preload. I only have two turns now (I will check my notes) and my car is peaking at 21 lbs. and will hold between 20 - 21 lbs at WOT, as seen in the second vid.

All in all I am more than happy with the results as the car has a very angry sound and pulls like crazy in the midrange to redline. I have attached an exhaust clip to share. If you have a moment check out my garage.

Please let me know if I can answer any other questions for you. Thank you for your time.

Gigante

https://www.dropbox.com/s/9yxwbecjz61orbp/SSED3.mp4

VTEC Mini
11-01-2013, 04:20 PM
Thanks RRM for the dyno graphs. As far as the D.P., what does it do as far smog for CA? Is this something I would have to change eveytime I go in? How hard is it too install? Do have a "power package" put together for the number you posted?

FTY
11-01-2013, 05:35 PM
FYI- RRM ULTIMA 3's are expected to ship mid next week. Just got word.

RoadRace
11-04-2013, 12:35 PM
Thanks RRM for the dyno graphs. As far as the D.P., what does it do as far smog for CA? Is this something I would have to change eveytime I go in? How hard is it too install? Do have a "power package" put together for the number you posted?


DP swap takes very short time. Anthing like a downpipe, even though it has a cat, is considered an off highway part. Everyone know that. IN CA you have 6 years to do smog on a new car. So in 6 years from now, you need a Saturday Afternoon to swap them back to stock. I think the cat will pass a smog test but it will be close so in 6 years, (CA resisdent) you put your stock one back. You will need, 2 hours, basic socket set, 6 pack of beer because you will not have time to drink a 12 pack. Thanks

RRM

VTEC Mini
11-07-2013, 09:24 AM
dp swap takes very short time. Anthing like a downpipe, even though it has a cat, is considered an off highway part. Everyone know that. In ca you have 6 years to do smog on a new car. So in 6 years from now, you need a saturday afternoon to swap them back to stock. I think the cat will pass a smog test but it will be close so in 6 years, (ca resisdent) you put your stock one back. You will need, 2 hours, basic socket set, 6 pack of beer because you will not have time to drink a 12 pack. Thanks

rrmlol!

RoadRace
11-07-2013, 12:14 PM
lol!

LOL? Explain. It is work but it is not a big deal for sure. If it is LOL hard, then go to a shop in 6 years, and pay them to do it so you do not have to get hands dirty. It is no problem otherwise....


RRM

shagghie
11-07-2013, 12:30 PM
LOL? Explain. It is work but it is not a big deal for sure. If it is LOL hard, then go to a shop in 6 years, and pay them to do it so you do not have to get hands dirty. It is no problem otherwise....


RRM
I think he was LOL'ing at the beer comment which was pretty funny. At least, that's what I LOL'd at. LOL'ing can be trixy on the intertoobs.

VTEC Mini
11-07-2013, 04:19 PM
LOL? Explain. It is work but it is not a big deal for sure. If it is LOL hard, then go to a shop in 6 years, and pay them to do it so you do not have to get hands dirty. It is no problem otherwise....


RRM


I think he was LOL'ing at the beer comment which was pretty funny. At least, that's what I LOL'd at. LOL'ing can be trixy on the intertoobs.

The "LOL!" was about the beer comment. Kind of strange to be insulting or be a smart a$$ and give a "thanks" at the bottom of the post don't ya think?

I just wanted to know what changing it out entails. If I can repair Military Jet aircraft, and maintain and repair a 1500 megawatt combined cycle power plant I can change out a D.P. If it heats, cools, fly's, drives, floats, lifts, pumps or generates electricity I have turned a wrench on it.

RoadRace
11-15-2013, 11:14 AM
I think you can change a DP also. It is not hard, it just takes some time is all. It is a worthwhile mod though.

ROAD/RACE

RoadRace
12-01-2013, 05:15 PM
CYBER SALE PRICE DEC 1-7 ONLY $649


http://roadracemotorsports.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=118_119&products_id=1957

TorkMe
12-02-2013, 10:49 PM
The Abarth is currently port injected...they have future plans to make it direct injected. The 1.8L is direct injected on the 4C.

But AFRs stay in the 13s similar to stock.

But the 4C is not MultiAir. Direct injection and MultiAir on the same car will take a new PCM

TorkMe
12-02-2013, 10:51 PM
AFR graphs are tough aren't they? the averages don't even matter...it's the one momentary outlier condition when it goes really lean that matters. :-) Seems like quite a lot of variation though overall, no?

Reposting here for sake of ease:

http://www.fiat500usaforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=8269&d=1382821135

14 to 1 at 4,000 RPM? Can you post something that shows what the stock AFR's were at?

mneuman916
12-02-2013, 11:03 PM
14 to 1 at 4,000 RPM? Can you post something that shows what the stock AFR's were at?

Ummm, shouldn't you know that????

Sales@roadrace
12-11-2013, 03:32 PM
Ummm, shouldn't you know that????

True. Perhaps you can share this info with all on the boards for the sake of enlightening everyone. I know there are logs of it but I am having trouble finding them now. WE have put it up before. I forget the customer who did this exercise. 14 to 1 is what the widebands are trying to maintain not just using RPM as an input but also boost and other load parameters so 14 to 1 at 4000 is meaningless unless you have other info to correlate with it. Example 4K rpms but at 10% throttle position (decel) means ........... I think the smarter folks understand.


RRM.