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View Full Version : eibach sportlines alignment - just toe or need camber bolts? insides gone!



deathshead
10-06-2013, 08:43 PM
Hey guys, 15k on my car with the stock pirelli 16s.
The insides of the front tires are down to metal!

I'm going to replace them with the new Michelin pilot a/s 3's

For alightment I'm reading that more than likely TOE is out from lowering causing inside front wear , and camber shouldn't change that crazy for such immature tire wear.

Anyone go in for an alignment with sportlines?
Should I order the camber bolts from tire rack? Just to have them on me?

I just don't want to go to the dummy tire shop and have them tell me
They can't align it without camber bolts...

Thanks!

DesmosDromos
10-06-2013, 09:14 PM
I've not done any suspension work yet, but based on what I've read here no camber adjustment is possible without the bolts.

FTY
10-06-2013, 09:35 PM
Like you said its most likely toe, I had the Sportlines on for about 10k with no nasty tire wear like that. I really doubt its your camber.

redred
10-06-2013, 09:46 PM
Perfect tire wear for me. Eibach Sportlines and SPC camber bolts. I did have a full alignment done as well after the install.

deathshead
10-06-2013, 10:01 PM
Like you said its most likely toe, I had the Sportlines on for about 10k with no nasty tire wear like that. I really doubt its your camber.

I'm thinking stock **** balloons combined with toe out of whack with the sportlines , driving habits and severely peaked roads up here in NEPA. I have ran like 2.5 deg of camber in the past with no issues. No abuse (burnouts,etc) on these stock tires either.

I'm going with these brand new Michelin pilot a/s 3 tires. They have been better rated that other uhp sumer only tires and I can hopefully and carefully get thru the winter with them. These are supposed to be amazing tires, we shall see.

The stock pirelli 16s are down right extremely dangerous in the rain. These things should be investigated they are so bad.
In the rain its like driving on a sheet of ice with the car all over the road white knuckled.. Even when new.

I just want to make sure I won't have any issues with the mileage warranty from Michelin (45k) for any reason.
My wife's Honda element gets approx 88k out of her atx/ms Michelin's consistently, they have been amazing exceeding all expectations in all categories. They are pricey but unreal. This sold me on Michelin after years of crappy kumhos and falkens...

Camber shouldn't be a problem with inside wear until we start getting into the 3+ deg range, and I can't see it being that far out with just sportlines. I keep reading that the toe will go out when lowered,and over and over again its toe toe toe, that's going to take out the insides of the front . I was think ping just in case I could have them with me if the dip**** at the tire joint has an issue with crazy camber he can't take out, but if its over 3deg out then something else is majorly wrong... We shall see been pricing, most show meet tire rack pricing now,
But just found another that that will mount,balance AND even align for free with purchase, seems too good to be true.

FTY
10-06-2013, 11:14 PM
I'm thinking stock **** balloons combined with toe out of whack with the sportlines , driving habits and severely peaked roads up here in NEPA. I have ran like 2.5 deg of camber in the past with no issues. No abuse (burnouts,etc) on these stock tires either.

I'm going with these brand new Michelin pilot a/s 3 tires. They have been better rated that other uhp sumer only tires and I can hopefully and carefully get thru the winter with them. These are supposed to be amazing tires, we shall see.

The stock pirelli 16s are down right extremely dangerous in the rain. These things should be investigated they are so bad.
In the rain its like driving on a sheet of ice with the car all over the road white knuckled.. Even when new.

I just want to make sure I won't have any issues with the mileage warranty from Michelin (45k) for any reason.
My wife's Honda element gets approx 88k out of her atx/ms Michelin's consistently, they have been amazing exceeding all expectations in all categories. They are pricey but unreal. This sold me on Michelin after years of crappy kumhos and falkens...

Camber shouldn't be a problem with inside wear until we start getting into the 3+ deg range, and I can't see it being that far out with just sportlines. I keep reading that the toe will go out when lowered,and over and over again its toe toe toe, that's going to take out the insides of the front . I was think ping just in case I could have them with me if the dip**** at the tire joint has an issue with crazy camber he can't take out, but if its over 3deg out then something else is majorly wrong... We shall see been pricing, most show meet tire rack pricing now,
But just found another that that will mount,balance AND even align for free with purchase, seems too good to be true.

I had the Pirellis on the 17s and they are OK(at best)....I need another set of wheels for my snow tires..Im not going to subject the OZs to another winter wonderland....I agree 100% with you..toe toe toe....your not going to throw dedicated snows on?

WolfzGangvr6
10-06-2013, 11:48 PM
Hey guys, 15k on my car with the stock pirelli 16s.
The insides of the front tires are down to metal!

I'm going to replace them with the new Michelin pilot a/s 3's

For alightment I'm reading that more than likely TOE is out from lowering causing inside front wear , and camber shouldn't change that crazy for such immature tire wear.

Anyone go in for an alignment with sportlines?
Should I order the camber bolts from tire rack? Just to have them on me?

I just don't want to go to the dummy tire shop and have them tell me
They can't align it without camber bolts...

Thanks!
When you lower the car your toe changes due to the angle your tie rids are at. With it being a mcphereson strut design and NON slotted strut mounting points, its going to be a toe issue. Just 2 from a fiat tech

Tweak
10-07-2013, 12:01 AM
When you lower the car your toe changes due to the angle your tie rids are at. With it being a mcphereson strut design and NON slotted strut mounting points, its going to be a toe issue. Just 2 from a fiat tech

So, best priced and quality camber bolts to resolve the problem? I have Bilstein Coilovers and am about to take in the car for alignment, doubtful I will get the bolts in time since I will be making a long trip before the weekend arrives. I expect to put over 1K (at the least) miles on the car in less than 5 days.

BigDaddySRT
10-07-2013, 07:02 AM
So, best priced and quality camber bolts to resolve the problem? I have Bilstein Coilovers and am about to take in the car for alignment, doubtful I will get the bolts in time since I will be making a long trip before the weekend arrives. I expect to put over 1K (at the least) miles on the car in less than 5 days.

I honestly don't understand why these manufactures are releasing "struts" or "adjustable coilovers" for the NA ABARTH and not slotting the Struts for Camber Adjustment.

WolfzGangvr6
10-07-2013, 07:50 AM
Tweak, there are a few on the market. road race sells them and 500 madness. you can also buy them from parts geek. they are all pretty much the same quality wise (atleast the few I have dealt with). if the toe is on point then you should see minimal to no abnormal wear. your just going to have to pay for the alignment again obviously when the camber bolts come in.

deathshead
10-07-2013, 08:38 AM
I had the Pirellis on the 17s and they are OK(at best)....I need another set of wheels for my snow tires..Im not going to subject the OZs to another winter wonderland....I agree 100% with you..toe toe toe....your not going to throw dedicated snows on?

Dedicated winter wheel-tire combo was the plan, but I have way too much stuff going on to make it happen this season. These Michelin Pilot sport A/S 3's are supposed to be pretty awesome out performing uhp summer tires and not turning into hard plastic in the cold, they also have the serated edges like the michelin winter tires. I got by last year on the junk stock pirellis so these michelins should do ok.

If its really bad out the wife stays home and I take the Honda element on ATX M/S's thats a great combo and makes the goofy looking element an absolute beast in the snow.

I really cant drive in the deep stuff anyways as Ill be plowing the streets with the front lip, LOL!

Tweak
10-07-2013, 08:43 AM
Tweak, there are a few on the market. road race sells them and 500 madness. you can also buy them from parts geek. they are all pretty much the same quality wise (atleast the few I have dealt with). if the toe is on point then you should see minimal to no abnormal wear. your just going to have to pay for the alignment again obviously when the camber bolts come in.

Thanks.

I have many RRM parts but I can buy the SPC bolts from Tirerack for $23 bucks, no way I will spend $100 from RRM for the same thing. I was told just align the front and leave the rear alone and heard do a full alignment, buy the bolts to adjust, don't buy just align, just a lot of different opinions. Maybe the place I go will have them or I can locate them locally and have them installed then the car aligned all at the same time.

deathshead
10-07-2013, 08:52 AM
Thanks.

I have many RRM parts but I can buy the SPC bolts from Tirerack for $23 bucks, no way I will spend $100 from RRM for the same thing. I was told just align the front and leave the rear alone and heard do a full alignment, buy the bolts to adjust, don't buy just align, just a lot of different opinions. Maybe the place I go will have them or I can locate them locally and have them installed then the car aligned all at the same time.


SPZ EZ Cam bolts, - part number 81240 for the 10mm known to work great per shaggie on his car.
I just got them on Amazon for $27 bucks shipped via prime, Tire Rack wants $11 to ship 2 stupid bolts!

Its good insurance when the moron at the alignment shop is guaranteed to tell me "your alignment is out but its not adjustable herp derp" I hand him the bolts and go "here you go!", Plus come summer I can dial back in some more camber when I want.

Thanks Gentlemen! I need to make it back here more often but soo much going on latley, trying to get the batch of ecu covers going, wiring up the powder coating setup in the garage, its cutting into my beer drinking time too, lolol

Tweak
10-07-2013, 08:56 AM
SPZ EZ Cam bolts, - part number 81240 for the 10mm known to work great per shaggie on his car.
I just got them on Amazon for $27 bucks shipped via prime, Tire Rack wants $11 to ship 2 stupid bolts!

Its good insurance when the moron at the alignment shop is guaranteed to tell me "your alignment is out but its not adjustable herp derp" I hand him the bolts and go "here you go!", Plus come summer I can dial back in some more camber when I want.

Thanks Gentlemen! I need to make it back here more often but soo much going on latley, trying to get the batch of ecu covers going, wiring up the powder coating setup in the garage, its cutting into my beer drinking time too, lolol

Thanks.
I have Prime too, seems a better option, thanks. I did notice the 2013 versus 2012 that was mentioned above, glad they changed nothing so we have an option, maybe if I order today they can arrive before Thursday!

Ordered and says Wednesday but I bet it'll be later than I find useful, might have to slightly alter travel plans but I think I can make it work. Now I just need to make sure I have all the alignment specs for the local shop just in case there is the need (which has been the case with my former Sport).

FTY
10-07-2013, 09:27 AM
So, best priced and quality camber bolts to resolve the problem? I have Bilstein Coilovers and am about to take in the car for alignment, doubtful I will get the bolts in time since I will be making a long trip before the weekend arrives. I expect to put over 1K (at the least) miles on the car in less than 5 days.

Camber bolts do not affect toe...you don't need them unless there is a camber issue, which you don't have or unless you want to run extremely aggressive camber for the track. You should be fine without them.

deathshead
10-07-2013, 11:01 AM
Camber bolts do not affect toe...you don't need them unless there is a camber issue, which you don't have or unless you want to run extremely aggressive camber for the track. You should be fine without them.

I know camber bolts dont affect toe, I bought them as a "just in case" insurance policy when im at the shop with the car on the rack and there might be some wacky camber issue they can take out. I dont want to hear "we cant do the alignment because, bla bla bla.. "


I guess they are good to keep on hand if i do want to get a few extra degrees. But I dont want any premature tire wear.

redred
10-07-2013, 11:57 AM
I guess they are good to keep on hand if i do want to get a few extra degrees. But I dont want any premature tire wear.

Absolutely a good idea. First time I went in to get my alignment done, the shop suggested I wouldn't need the camber bolts. 4 hours later they decided there just wasn't enough range available to dial in both sides. I had to go back a second time with camber bolts in hand (and I got the wrong ones - the 12mm Moog ones). Had to race up to 500 Madness to buy the last set of SPC's they had in stock.

Good luck! I'm sure you gonna love the change in feel in how the car rides when you are done. I was shocked at how different my car felt after a good alignment.

FTY
10-07-2013, 12:52 PM
I know camber bolts dont affect toe, I bought them as a "just in case" insurance policy when im at the shop with the car on the rack and there might be some wacky camber issue they can take out. I dont want to hear "we cant do the alignment because, bla bla bla.. "


I guess they are good to keep on hand if i do want to get a few extra degrees. But I dont want any premature tire wear.

Gotcha :)

VTEC Mini
10-07-2013, 03:31 PM
SPZ EZ Cam bolts, - part number 81240 for the 10mm known to work great per shaggie on his car.
I just got them on Amazon for $27 bucks shipped via prime, Tire Rack wants $11 to ship 2 stupid bolts!

Its good insurance when the moron at the alignment shop is guaranteed to tell me "your alignment is out but its not adjustable herp derp" I hand him the bolts and go "here you go!", Plus come summer I can dial back in some more camber when I want.

Thanks Gentlemen! I need to make it back here more often but soo much going on latley, trying to get the batch of ecu covers going, wiring up the powder coating setup in the garage, its cutting into my beer drinking time too, lololYou have the links for those by chance? I go in next Monday for my alignment.

Tweak
10-08-2013, 09:54 AM
Well I got mine for about $30 bucks so I have them as a just in case and if not needed I'll try to sell them to someone here I guess, someone that hits the track could use them I'm sure. :)

I have the SPC 10mm bolts. :)

msjulie33
10-08-2013, 10:33 AM
4 hours later they decided there just wasn't enough range available to dial in both sides.

Mine as well


I was shocked at how different my car felt after a good alignment.

+1 - mine has been adjusted and even the back was shimmed a tad (long story on that) and it's amazing how well the car handles for being such an otherwise basic suspension design..

deathshead
10-08-2013, 10:28 PM
You have the links for those by chance? I go in next Monday for my alignment.


Absolutely!


http://www.amazon.com/Specialty-Products-Company-81240-Adjuster/dp/B000SIBQ84

They were $27.40 shipped and must have been stocked at an very close ware house as they literally arrived as if they were shipped overnight to the most extreme north east part of Pa.

Tweak
10-08-2013, 11:11 PM
Absolutely!


http://www.amazon.com/Specialty-Products-Company-81240-Adjuster/dp/B000SIBQ84

They were $27.40 shipped and must have been stocked at an very close ware house as they literally arrived as if they were shipped overnight to the most extreme north east part of Pa.

Exactly the bolts I purchased. Looks likely I won't see them until tomorrow evening which means I won't be able to get them installed...sure hope they aren't needed!!!

VTEC Mini
10-09-2013, 09:45 AM
Absolutely!


http://www.amazon.com/Specialty-Products-Company-81240-Adjuster/dp/B000SIBQ84

They were $27.40 shipped and must have been stocked at an very close ware house as they literally arrived as if they were shipped overnight to the most extreme north east part of Pa.Thanks a ton and a half! I tried Tirerack and Amazon and no bueno. You rock!

ivmill
10-09-2013, 01:10 PM
Thanks for the link! I just snagged a set of these for insurance too. I need to get it aligned after some more Fortune Auto tweaking.

VTEC Mini
10-09-2013, 01:13 PM
Thanks to the link! I just snagged a set of these for insurance too. I need to get it aligned after some more Fortune Auto tweaking.

I ordered a set too and they should be here tomorrow.

Tweak
10-09-2013, 10:37 PM
Alignment done today...bolts not needed so now I have useless bolts. :( Being broke sucks and buying what isn't needed sucks more...lol.

VTEC Mini
10-10-2013, 08:42 AM
Alignment done today...bolts not needed so now I have useless bolts. :( Being broke sucks and buying what isn't needed sucks more...lol.What was your camber? I have the new Neu- F springs that sit lower so I am wondering...

Tweak
10-11-2013, 12:25 AM
What was your camber? I have the new Neu- F springs that sit lower so I am wondering...

I don't know as they did not give me the paper, I forgot about asking for it which I intended to do, maybe when I get back that way they can pull it for me and print it out.

trevc
10-11-2013, 09:36 AM
Sell them at the Dragon meet.

Alignment done today...bolts not needed so now I have useless bolts. :( Being broke sucks and buying what isn't needed sucks more...lol.

VTEC Mini
10-12-2013, 11:40 PM
Got the Camber Bolts yesterday..... they are the 10MM ones but they look way to small. I hope I don't need them.

deathshead
10-14-2013, 08:47 AM
Got the Camber Bolts yesterday..... they are the 10MM ones but they look way to small. I hope I don't need them.

They DO look small, but they are indeed the correct ones.
I installed them on saturday and nailed -1.7 Degrees camber with zero problems.

the rear is all whacked out, thrust angle and LR toe is way out, not much can be done however with the rear.

deathshead
10-14-2013, 08:49 AM
wierd part is that I think I liked the steering feel more with the front toe all whacked out. lol
the steering feels much lighter now with the new Michelins and alignment.
It DOES really handle great now though.

VTEC Mini
10-14-2013, 04:19 PM
I didn't need the bolts after all! He did have to adjust the toe and she feels grand!

redred
10-14-2013, 04:38 PM
wierd part is that I think I liked the steering feel more with the front toe all whacked out. lol
the steering feels much lighter now with the new Michelins and alignment.
It DOES really handle great now though.

What are your before/after alignment readings?

deathshead
10-16-2013, 09:04 AM
What are your before/after alignment readings?

Guys, I just wanted to clarify and I apologize if I "steered" anyone the wrong way, (really, no pun intended, lol!)

The Camber bolts are ONLY needed if you want to dial in just a hair more negative camber then stock.
when we put the car on the rack camber was dead nuts on -1.5 exactly where it should be.

I wanted to go just a tiny hair more to -1.7 camber.
This was done to improve handling while not getting crazy.

The toe was way way out after the sportline install and thats what caused the front tires to wear out on the inside edges.

I dont want ANY more weird tire wear in the front and this adjustment to -1.7 from -1.5 should have ZERO
affect on tire wear.

And THIS is what happens when you install springs, dont get the car aligned and drive around for 2k miles with the toe whacked out.

http://i43.tinypic.com/2m48w87.jpg
http://i42.tinypic.com/23w1zxe.jpg

deathshead
10-16-2013, 09:19 AM
What are your before/after alignment readings?

I forgot to get the print out and numbers, but the fronts where way way way pointing OUT
and the machine turned all red. lol


Current numbers are
Toe currently on 0 -
Camber -1.7

MAZ
10-16-2013, 10:26 AM
I honestly don't understand why these manufactures are releasing "struts" or "adjustable coilovers" for the NA ABARTH and not slotting the Struts for Camber Adjustment.
My KW's are.
I think there are others that are slotted as well.

Tweak
10-16-2013, 08:40 PM
I forgot to get the print out and numbers, but the fronts where way way way pointing OUT
and the machine turned all red. lol


Current numbers are
Toe currently on 0 -
Camber -1.7

I was seeing red on the driver rear I think, wish I had asked for the printout!