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View Full Version : Next Generation 500, et al



500ways
09-21-2013, 10:19 PM
http://www.caradvice.com.au/252618/fiat-500-next-gen-city-car-grow-around-us-customers/

cmj912
09-23-2013, 08:49 AM
I am not looking forward to a longer and wider 500. Take a look at the original and let's remember what THIS car is about. If they want something longer and wider, introduce a new model. I am not sure why Americans insist on being alone commuting to work in a giant car. We're never going to be Europeans, but we should have sense enough when to know to leave an icon alone. They have plenty to work with if they need to do a refresh without bloating and squashing it.

Ryephile
09-23-2013, 09:24 AM
The 500 came onto my radar because of its size, not despite its size. I don't understand the mental feebleness automakers have when it comes to going "moar" with each new-gen car. Make it the size you want, not the size something else is.

msjulie33
09-23-2013, 10:29 AM
Ugh I agree... I am often completely flummoxed by the size of the beasts commuting to work around me; some will say they had to drop off a kid or something (come on, that kid weighs 50lbs so you need a 7 pass Suburban?) - whatever, I'm sure most are just trapped in the cultural wasteland of bigger is better.. the argument of it's both a commute car and family car fails me too, some of those these things are pretty pricy. You could have a commuter car and something family sized and money left over not to mention cheaper commute costs.

If there needs to be more bigger Fiats don't make those who appreciate a right-sized commuter car lose their options.. come on Fiat, buck the trend...

flyboy2160
11-23-2013, 12:43 PM
Good Morning!

This is my first post here.

I've been following the 500 Abarth in case I have to replace my beloved 2003 Mini Cooper S with a new car. I won't buy the current 56 MCS nor the hideous looking, too-large, dipstickless, F56. I agree completely with the 'keep it small' and 'Americans don't get small car' sentiments above.

If I had to buy a new car today, it would almost certainly be a 500 Abarth.

Alas, I fear this won't be the case if Fiat changes the design in ~2015: they will be stuck with the same Nazi pedestrian crash protection regulations which will ruin the front end (just like the F56 Mini was ruined).

Although I do have the skills to fabricate tooling and to build a 'tighter' composite front end.

And I see the famous (or infamous!) Ryephile is here now. Greetings ex-Mini man.

Flyboy Steve

shagghie
11-23-2013, 12:53 PM
They should be making this car smaller, not bigger.
It's already too big for a cinque.
smaller, lighter, faster.
This makes me so mad I could spit, and after being a Fiat fan my entire life it's enough to make me leave the mark if they are so disengenous to their own mark and design philosophy.

Why would ANYONE want a !500! to be BIGGER????

They finally have a niche and are out-mini-ing the mini, and NO ONE likes what mini has done to their inflated designs lately.... NO ONE.

modular
11-23-2013, 12:59 PM
Glad I got mine when I did. Not everything is better bigger.

shagghie
11-23-2013, 01:06 PM
Could a Mod start a poll on this?
I am willing to bet that 100% of the owners on this forum would vote the same way everyone here already has.
then maybe Chris could send a link to the poll to Fiat for us...

what's everyone's favorite corvette year?
How about Camaro?

See? Even Americans prefer the smaller years, which inevitably and tragically are the early years.

I'm so bothered by this I need to go for a walk.

flyboy2160
11-23-2013, 05:36 PM
Could a Mod start a poll on this?...Chris could send a link to the poll to Fiat for us...I'm so bothered by this I need to go for a walk.

+10000000000000000000000000000000000000

Yes, let's have a poll and send to Fiat. To no avail, I'll bet. There will be some standard corporate B.S. reply "Thank you for you feedback blah blah. We at Fiat strive to be responsive to our customers blah blah blah...." When we really want is a passionate conference call/online meeting in which we tell them 'NONONONONONONO WE DON'T WANT A VW GOLF. KEEP THIS NICHE TO YOURSELF NOW THAT MINI HAS GIVEN IT UP!!!!!!!!! LET THE PEOPLE WHO WANT A BIGGER CAR DRIVE SOMETHING ELSE."

This is depressing.

modular
11-23-2013, 05:37 PM
Heck, even Ford is making the next Mustang lighter and smaller.

flyboy2160
11-23-2013, 05:41 PM
... and NO ONE likes what mini has done to their inflated designs lately.... NO ONE.

mimicking Lee Corso: Not So Fast. Check out Bridgers' sycophantic MotoringFile comments - and even some of the comments on NAM.

Felnus
11-23-2013, 09:38 PM
I think I mentioned this in my MAXI Cooper thread. This isn't a new issue with car companies and small sporty cars. Here's some pre-Internet kvetching Ford got in the '60s about the Mustang from owners:

"Economy with style is what I'm interested in. It always seems when you people have a good thing, you over-improve it."

"You're making a good sporty car into a luxury bus...too quiet, soft and big."

And my personal favorite, from Anna Muccioli in 1968 at the Ford stockholders spring meeting straight to Henry Ford the Deuce's face, "Why can't you just leave a sports car small? I mean you keep blowing them up and starting another little one, blow that one up and start another one. I mean why don't you just leave them?"

Car companies seem to think if a small car sells well, it will sell better if it is bigger. That isn't always the case. It certainly wasn't with the Mustang, the bigger it got, the fewer they sold.

Fiat500USA
11-24-2013, 12:07 AM
First, they aren't going to make it into a Golf. Let's not get too carried away. There will be a Punto replacement for that. They also can't abandon the city car category, so I wouldn't freak out.

Felnus
11-24-2013, 12:23 AM
...so I wouldn't freak out.

We're FIAT owners. Isn't that what we are supposed to do? Well, at least once a year...

Fiat500USA
11-24-2013, 12:29 AM
We're FIAT owners. Isn't that what we are supposed to do? Well, at least once a year...

Got a good laugh out of that!

Felnus
11-24-2013, 12:31 AM
Got a good laugh out of that!

Good! That was the idea.

lilscotty
12-12-2013, 11:49 AM
I am a possible future FIAT owner, lurking. I would buy a FIAT 500 right now if..... they sold it with a 2 cylinder. They don't need to change the size at all just to "keep up" with the mini cooper and maybe the VW bug. Isn't it better to be your own class of car rather compete in a saturated market? The 500 would be the perfect commuter for me. I just need to cart my behind to and from work, and the occasional grocery-getter on the way home. Right now, due to lack of choices, it seems I am forced to wait for MY2017 when most everyone will have to meet the CAFE standards, then perhaps FIAT will surprise us with a 2 cylinder, or their diesel. Wouldn't THAT be nice? I think I can make that 99 Chevy Metro 3 banger of mine last til then. I think.

Fiat500USA
12-12-2013, 12:19 PM
From what I have been told by those who know, the TwinAir in its current form has to be driven so hard to run with traffic conditions in the US, that it negatively impacts the fuel economy. The high output version may be the answer to that, and maybe we'll see that here in the states. In the meantime, Fiat's with manual transmissions regularly achieve over 40 mpg so you may be able to enjoy a 500 now, and then trade it in when (and if) the TwinAir is available in the future.

ScorpionSkins.com
12-12-2013, 06:00 PM
From what I have been told by those who know, the TwinAir in its current form has to be driven so hard to run with traffic conditions in the US, that it negatively impacts the fuel economy. The high output version may be the answer to that, and maybe we'll see that here in the states. In the meantime, Fiat's with manual transmissions regularly achieve over 40 mpg so you may be able to enjoy a 500 now, and then trade it in when (and if) the TwinAir is available in the future.

It's a shame they didn't integrate the stop-and-start feature into our vehicles as is available on the European models. I've encountered very few stoplights while in Europe not considering major cities, but deal with a good double dozen on a daily basis here. Seems like it would have been the perfect feature to offer for the North American market!

The biggest tease about it is that if you take a look at your EVIC from a side angle, the "stop-and-start" symbol outline is visible near the bottom of the screen portion, never to be lit...

Felnus
12-12-2013, 06:22 PM
I'm not sure that is a fuel-saving strategy I could ever get onboard with, frankly. My engine stops, I think something is wrong with the car.

Abarth619
12-12-2013, 07:02 PM
Leave it to us Americans to wanna turn a Fiat 500 into a Fat 500XXL. Here's a novel idea, if you can't fit into the car lose some weight fatty. I love the size of my car, in fact it was one of its biggest selling points to me. Small, fast and loud as hell.

Lil Blue
12-12-2013, 08:03 PM
Wife and I are quite pleased with the MPG of our Lil Blue. Auto transmission in it and we average low to mid 30's mpg combo city/hwy. Granted lower with the top down but that's expected. On our trip to Colorado, once we got out of the Kansas cross winds we were consistently above 40 mpg with readings in the 50 to 60 range on level ground and or a slight incline. Still breaking in Ribelle (the Abarth) but the mpg is slowly climbing. Only have 1k on it right now. On to the 500L Wife really likes it and wants to trade in her XL-7 for it once Lil Blue is paid off. Though looks wise I'm <eh> about it, the inside I love. It feels roomier than the XL-7 though not as much cargo room. Just hope they come out with an all wheel drive version by the time we're ready. As far as getting bigger, some people need the extra room, but are ready to scale back from the suburban assault vehicles. Though my dog (at 215lbs) fits in Lil Blue, and enjoys the short rides with the top down (you should see the looks from people when he pops up from the back seat), the longer trips he's more comfortable in the SUV or Silverado. The 500L would work well as a long distance dog hauler for us.

ScorpionSkins.com
12-12-2013, 08:24 PM
I'm not sure that is a fuel-saving strategy I could ever get onboard with, frankly. My engine stops, I think something is wrong with the car.

It's really not as distracting as you think. The feature is an option and can easily be disabled through the EVIC. It briefly shuts down the engine at stoplights provided you're not running the A/C and very silently kicks back into operation as soon as you reengage into gear (radio, EVIC, displays all remain on). They integrated hybrid technology into the system to achieve the seamless stop/start effect and you should really read into it if you'd like an interesting read. Barely noticeable unless you're listening to the exhaust or paying attention to engine vibration, and there's no delay in power when the engine/clutch is reengaged so it doesn't pose as a nuisance or cause a safety issue.

Studies claim 10% of gas usage in the United States is due to vehicles needlessly idling at stoplights. Seems like a great idea for the environment and pockets to have such a system available. That's disregarding the fact that Fiat 500s in Europe also come available with the ability to run on natural gas as an option. Another valid alternative, both financially and environmentally, to gasoline.

Felnus
12-12-2013, 08:33 PM
I hear you, technically its a good idea but if my tach goes to zero, I trip. It wouldn't work well for me anyway. I live in the sticks and I'm rarely idling at a stoplight. I wonder what adding direct injection would do for the mpgs with the Multi-air system?

flyboy2160
02-18-2014, 04:44 PM
Ok, ok, it's just a hypothetical, but might be worth gossiping about:

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/fiat/500/85748/new-fiat-500-due-2016-exclusive-images