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View Full Version : Oil Change 3 months ago, down 1/2 a liter



Corrnaus
08-18-2013, 07:21 PM
So checked my oil the other day and it was barely on the dip stick. Took it to my studio, and confirmed that it was down 1/2 liter. Now doing a consumption test, need to go in every 1600km and have them check the oil and document it, to see if something is out of the ordinary. I know the cars burn oil but that amount in 3 months is a lot. I know I checked it after them changed it and all was good in May.

Also noticed since the top up that the back end and the exhaust pipes are dirtier then usual.

http://i1303.photobucket.com/albums/ag145/Corrnaus/IMG_0327_zps7fd9827f.jpg (http://s1303.photobucket.com/user/Corrnaus/media/IMG_0327_zps7fd9827f.jpg.html)

http://i1303.photobucket.com/albums/ag145/Corrnaus/94580440-fe65-4fa0-a085-0a3d6bc789f5_zpsa8c5bbff.jpg (http://s1303.photobucket.com/user/Corrnaus/media/94580440-fe65-4fa0-a085-0a3d6bc789f5_zpsa8c5bbff.jpg.html)

Anyone had this experience? If not keep and eye on your oil and check it between changes, don't leave it up to the dealer

FTY
08-18-2013, 08:05 PM
So checked my oil the other day and it was barely on the dip stick. Took it to my studio, and confirmed that it was down 1/2 liter. Now doing a consumption test, need to go in every 1600km and have them check the oil and document it, to see if something is out of the ordinary. I know the cars burn oil but that amount in 3 months is a lot. I know I checked it after them changed it and all was good in May.

Also noticed since the top up that the back end and the exhaust pipes are dirtier then usual.

http://i1303.photobucket.com/albums/ag145/Corrnaus/IMG_0327_zps7fd9827f.jpg (http://s1303.photobucket.com/user/Corrnaus/media/IMG_0327_zps7fd9827f.jpg.html)

http://i1303.photobucket.com/albums/ag145/Corrnaus/94580440-fe65-4fa0-a085-0a3d6bc789f5_zpsa8c5bbff.jpg (http://s1303.photobucket.com/user/Corrnaus/media/94580440-fe65-4fa0-a085-0a3d6bc789f5_zpsa8c5bbff.jpg.html)

Anyone had this experience? If not keep and eye on your oil and check it between changes, don't leave it up to the dealer

Its fairly common with turbo charged engines to consume more oil, the avg is .5 qts to 1qt in between oil changes 5k, also greatly depends on how you drive the car, the harder you drive the more oil consumption there will be.

Guest
08-18-2013, 09:54 PM
Good luck with this Nick, have you put paper under the car at night to see if its leaking somewhere? I check mine each week and not been down at all in 45k.

What oil did the dealer use?

Corrnaus
08-18-2013, 10:11 PM
Good luck with this Nick, have you put paper under the car at night to see if its leaking somewhere? I check mine each week and not been down at all in 45k.

What oil did the dealer use?

I just hit 17k drive how tonight.The dealer uses Mobil 1 full synthetic.. Im going to start buying my own oil and using the dealer for the labour. It is not leaking in the driveway. Parked in the same spot over patterned concrete so I would notice it.. Ill see in a few weeks when I go back to the dealer.

Fiat500USA
08-18-2013, 11:20 PM
Here are the official guidelines for oil consumption. By the way, my tailpipes look a lot sootier than those.


Here are the guidelines:


The accepted rate of oil consumption for engines used in the vehicles listed above is 0.946 liter (1 qt.) in 3,200 km (2,000 mi) for the 1st 80,467 km (50,000 mi). For vehicles with more then 80,467 km (50,000 mi) the acceptable oil consumption for engines is 0.946 liter (1 qt.) in 1,207 km (750 mi).


This above rate only applies to personal use vehicles, under warranty, that are driven in a non-aggressive manner and maintained in accordance
with the appropriate maintenance schedule. This rate does not apply to vehicles that are driven in an aggressive manner, at high RPM, high speeds.

Aggressive Driving
Aggressive driving and/or continuous driving at high speeds with high RPM's will increase
oil consumption. Because this may not always be an everyday occurrence, it is hard to
determine exactly how much the oil economy will be affected. A higher rate of oil
consumption is normal for vehicles equipped with manual transmissions that are driven
aggressively. Aggressive means; operation at high RPM (3,000 RPM to redline), with
frequent use of engine braking (using the engine to slow the vehicle). Vehicles that are
driven aggressively may consume engine oil at a rate of up to 0.946 L (1 quart) every 805
km (500 mi). This is normal for a vehicle that is driven aggressively. No repair is
necessary. This driving habit will require the owner to check the engine oil level at frequent
intervals, to verified the oil level remains within the recommended operating range. Oil
level should be checked every time you get fuel.


courtesy of Chrysler LLC

dylansi
08-18-2013, 11:37 PM
Vehicles that are driven aggressively may consume engine oil at a rate of up to 0.946 L (1 quart) every 805km (500 mi). This is normal for a vehicle that is driven aggressively.

WHAT! Does that mean if I drive aggressively for 2000miles I have just completed an oil change?

Fiat500USA
08-18-2013, 11:43 PM
Vehicles that are driven aggressively may consume engine oil at a rate of up to 0.946 L (1 quart) every 805km (500 mi). This is normal for a vehicle that is driven aggressively.

WHAT! Does that mean if I drive aggressively for 2000miles I have just completed an oil change?

It's possible! gr_grin There is nothing unusual about these guidelines, especially if you've owned a VAG product.

Corrnaus
08-19-2013, 10:29 AM
Aggressive means; operation at high RPM (3,000 RPM to redline)

I drive aggressive every time I get in the car according to this. Looks like Ill need to keep some oil on hand to fuel my aggressive habit

Fiat500USA
08-19-2013, 11:07 AM
Aggressive means; operation at high RPM (3,000 RPM to redline)

I drive aggressive every time I get in the car according to this. Looks like Ill need to keep some oil on hand to fuel my aggressive habit


How many KMs on your car and how many put on in those three months. That is probably key to the situation.

deathshead
08-19-2013, 12:51 PM
The Cat burns most of the oil off before you can see or smell it, go catless and you will smell and see some during certain conditions. :)

Its as Chris and FTY have mentioned its normal for Turbocharged vehicles to use a little more oil than conventional depending on the way its driven.

If you think thats bad talk to any RX8 owner.

shagghie
08-19-2013, 01:34 PM
The Cat burns most of the oil off before you can see or smell it, go catless and you will smell and see some during certain conditions. :)

Its as Chris and FTY have mentioned its normal for Turbocharged vehicles to use a little more oil than conventional depending on the way its driven.

If you think thats bad talk to any RX8 owner.

I burned 1/2 quart at the auto-cross alone yesterday...the track set up was fast this time and I was pinging the rev-limiter at the top of 2nd in 3 sections of the track, x's 8 runs = .5qt oil.
Nothing unusual, and I thought it would be more. I keep two quarts of Pennz Euro in the trunk at all times and check at every gas fill-up. Car doesn't leak a drop in the driveway, and as Deathshead says, most of it is burned up downstream. My tailpipes are black within two days after cleaning them, but I don't think I drive UNDER 3k rpms on my commute anyways, lol.

gtntahg
10-11-2013, 08:56 AM
Really glad I ran across this thread - it's answered my Abarth's oil consumption question, which was, "WTH?!? Down almost a quart over 6,700 miles?"

It's been a long time since I've owned a turbocharged car so I'd forgotten about the turbocharger/oil use factoid. Then the whole bit about, "...if driving aggressively, oil consumption will be more..." certainly came into play in my case.

My Abarth is my DD and I drive it pretty much like I stole it all the time just to hear the exhaust snap-crackle-pop. SO! :beer: Cheers!

johnnyquest
10-13-2013, 05:17 AM
So, I'm sorry to call bull**** on this, but my Volvo S60 T5 doesn't use any oil at all. I drive it "normally" which means there are times when I get in the power band and times when I'm just cruising. I also used to autocross my Jetta VR6 regularly and it never burned any oil. It all comes down to build quality and design of the engine. They list those oil consumption numbers in the literature so they don't have to replace under warranty every engine that isn't built perfectly. Maybe it's an Italian thing...the only vehicle I've owned that has burned any significant amounts of oil is my Moto Guzzi. It used quite a bit early on, but as the motor broke in it seems to have subsided. Oh, and there was the 98 Saturn I had for a while that went though a quart of oil a week, but that thing was beat to crap.

JQ

jguerdat
10-13-2013, 07:37 AM
It all comes down to build quality and design of the engine.

And the specific engine. I've had cars burn oil and others that didn't. My S2000 would go through a quart every 1k miles but the Volvo C30 uses very little. Driving style makes a difference but the biggest thing is the specific engine since some of the same model won't consume while others do. It's not Big Thing - that's why the recommendation has been to check your oil at every fill-up since forever.

Fiat500USA
10-13-2013, 10:35 AM
So, I'm sorry to call bull**** on this, but my Volvo S60 T5 doesn't use any oil at all. I drive it "normally" which means there are times when I get in the power band and times when I'm just cruising. I also used to autocross my Jetta VR6 regularly and it never burned any oil. It all comes down to build quality and design of the engine. They list those oil consumption numbers in the literature so they don't have to replace under warranty every engine that isn't built perfectly. Maybe it's an Italian thing...the only vehicle I've owned that has burned any significant amounts of oil is my Moto Guzzi. It used quite a bit early on, but as the motor broke in it seems to have subsided. Oh, and there was the 98 Saturn I had for a while that went though a quart of oil a week, but that thing was beat to crap.

JQ

You've been lucky. VW/Audi are notorious for oil consumption.LOL

Abarth Phreak
10-13-2013, 01:22 PM
bsflag

ANYONE who says their car does not consume oil is at least one of the three below:

1) Not understanding cars HAVE to burn the oil to be lubricating properly.
2) Not able to read a dipstick or verify oil levels properly when changing oil.
3) Thinking their car is so superior that they can't share the facts straight.

No person in history has EVER removed the same amount of oil they put in at an oil change.

ALL cars naturally consume a small amount of oil at each stroke of the cylinder, as cylinder are not dry on the fire side and blow-by is a natural process. (Too much is not right either) That being said, yes, I understand there is a difference between a quart and 1/4 quart...LOL

Just saying! That is all.

Flame on...lol

gtntahg
10-13-2013, 07:22 PM
Phew! Well said. Beats the response I was about to *launch* ;)

Abarth Phreak
10-13-2013, 08:42 PM
Phew! Well said. Beats the response I was about to *launch* ;)

I know I got a little worked-up myself reading the comments...lol. But its all good.

johnnyquest
10-14-2013, 05:37 AM
Ok, so Mr. Phreak is right. All cars burn some oil. So I will add this disclaimer to my previous post: The cars I previously mentioned that I claim didn't burn any oil, in fact did not burn enough oil to cause alarm or require adding oil prior to the next scheduled oil change. So, I guess I should have said that some engines are better at managing their oil consumption than others.

As always, your results may vary.

JQ

Guest
10-14-2013, 07:54 AM
I've hit 52k and NEVER, not once have I had to add oil! Sure it's bound to burn a tiny amount, but not sufficient that I've had to add any in between services.

Call it BS all you like, but thats a FACT!

(sorry dont have a fancy smiley for that)

Corrnaus
10-14-2013, 08:56 AM
The alarming part is when I went to the dealer for my second consumption test, a different tech pulled the dip stick and said " your car is down half a liter" The oil had not moved from the last half a liter that was added 3 weeks earlier, by the other tech. Brought that up that apparently you guys have a different view on how full the oil should be. So he added more oil, then I pulled the stick once I got home and it was overfilled by 100ml or so. I just got my own oil and filters from amazon and will be borrowing a friends oil extractor and doing it myself from now on.

Guest
10-14-2013, 10:11 AM
The alarming part is when I went to the dealer for my second consumption test, a different tech pulled the dip stick and said " your car is down half a liter" The oil had not moved from the last half a liter that was added 3 weeks earlier, by the other tech. Brought that up that apparently you guys have a different view on how full the oil should be. So he added more oil, then I pulled the stick once I got home and it was overfilled by 100ml or so. I just got my own oil and filters from amazon and will be borrowing a friends oil extractor and doing it myself from now on.

Sounds a good idea to me! Just watch as you lose the skin off your knuckles getting the filter out!! Everytime I drive into Mr Lube they all run to the washroom to get out of doing it now.... I feel guilty taking it in :)

streetsurfer
10-14-2013, 12:08 PM
double post, sorry

streetsurfer
10-14-2013, 12:26 PM
You want to make very sure each person who checks the oil is doing so under the same conditions each time, whichever they might be. The manual describes the optimum one which will ensure consistent results while not allowing for over or underfilling. Variations in the method of checking will give varied results, especially with synthetics due to their greater ability to cling to metal surfaces and their ability to flow more easily. Operating temperature and time since circulation need to jive each time, in consideration of the oils properties, in order to avoid skewed results from not checking with the same prodecure. I'd not be getting too nervous over it until I've sorted that out first among all those people charged with checking it during this consumption watch process.

gtntahg
10-14-2013, 12:36 PM
It is interesting to see all of the reported variation in oil consumption; from none to almost a quart.

As posted earlier in this thread, my Abarth falls into the category of "high" oil use. But I'm wondering if, in addition to the way I routinely drive the car (24 mpg average evil_laughter), ambient air temperature may play a role as well?

I live in Texas and for the first two months of this car's "life," the temperatures were between 102 - 105 degrees during the day. Some of my driving was stop-and-go in town, but the majority of the miles were wide open country roads.

The other thing I suspect might be happening is: Was the car properly filled with engine oil in the first place? The reason I'm suggesting this is because the way my car was delivered left a lot to be desired. The main issue being 42 psi in all of the tires. Having seen the tire pressure problem reported on this board before, as soon as I got my Abarth home I checked the tire pressures and got it sorted. What I didn't do was check the engine oil level or, for that matter, any of the other fluid levels in the engine bay...

It was only after I saw this thread a week ago that I thought to go out and check the oil. As noted, it was almost a quart low - barely on the end of the dipstick. I also noticed that the coolant in the expansion tank was just slightly below the indicated "Low" level (the car had just come back from running errands so the engine was still hot).

So my knee-jerk reaction to this low oil - high oil consumption thing is, A) Very high ambient temperatures may play a role, and, B) My Abarth may have been delivered to me in less than proper spec.

Thoughts? Did anyone else get home on the first day of Abarth ownership and check the engine oil level?

zyxelenator
10-14-2013, 12:47 PM
All cars use oil, in is nature of combustion engines. Some engines use more oil, some less, on some engines it is not visible on dip stick in one oil change interval.
Forced induction engines do use more oil, since they "suck" more of it thru intake. That is a good idea to have Catch can on Turbo car to keep your intake, TB, and the rest of the parts on the way clean. And you will see that it will catch a lot of blow by oil. I do tend to drive my 500T hard from time to time. I went on vacation to Florida for 2 weeks. In the begging of the journey I added 1 more 1qt of m1 0w-40, oil was down to min, and I had around 4k on this oil. So it used 1qt in 4000 miles, which is fine. So I drove more then 3000 miles on hwy and country roads in FL and got to Italian Car day in GA, we met wit other Fiat guys and went to the Dragon, pushing cars sometimes pretty hard.
Before we went to actual Dragon I checked oil it was little bit lower than mid mark. After pushing car hard on Dragon and driving a little I had to add another qt of oil. So it use almost 0.5 qt in 11-15 miles of hard high rpm driving and previous 0.5 in more than 3000 of fairly easy driving. Guys behind me saw and felt it pretty good, since I have no cat, and it smoked pretty good on downshift deceleration or under WOT.
Also I mentioned it on the meet up, guys please, do not use 5w-30 oil in you turbo engines, they are small and running very hot, they do beat up oil pretty bad and do thin it out fairly fast.Used oil analysis proved it one more time, and I will do another one again,soon. If there is no syn 5w or 0w-40 oil on the way in the middle of nowhere, like Dragon tail, just top up with dino 10w-40 or 15w-40 or at least 20w-50 and change oil in next 3000k miles.
FYI, In Europe Abarths run 10w-50 Selenia oil.

Penzoil Ultra thickness starts off @ 13.1 cst @100c on virgin oil. Mine was thinned down to 11.68 in just 3150 miles.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2995079

Abarth Phreak
10-14-2013, 08:12 PM
Ok, so Mr. Phreak is right. All cars burn some oil. So I will add this disclaimer to my previous post: The cars I previously mentioned that I claim didn't burn any oil, in fact did not burn enough oil to cause alarm or require adding oil prior to the next scheduled oil change. So, I guess I should have said that some engines are better at managing their oil consumption than others.

As always, your results may vary.

JQ

bigok

I think we have all had those same cars too! I have not noticed my Abarth using an "excessive" amount of oil...yet. I have typically seen about 1/2 qt over the 5,000 mile changes I am doing so far.

streetsurfer
10-14-2013, 08:27 PM
Forty reasons for excess oil consumption.

http://www.amsoil.com/techservicesbulletin/MotorOil/TSB%20MO-2004-04-03%20Oil%20Consumption.pdf

streetsurfer
03-05-2014, 09:43 PM
Forty reasons for excess oil consumption.

http://www.amsoil.com/techservicesbulletin/MotorOil/TSB%20MO-2004-04-03%20Oil%20Consumption.pdf

This is to update that link. It has changed to the following.

Reasons For Motor Oil Consumption

http://www.amsoil.com//techservicesbulletin/MotorOil/TSB%20MO-2004-04-03%20Oil%20Consumption.pdf

djhace
03-06-2014, 02:35 PM
i keep checking the oil cause i know it drinks some.
most turbo's do.

Autodevdog
08-02-2014, 12:34 AM
I'm adding a quart of synthetic every 1000 miles or so. I know it is time by the sound the car makes and the way it drives. It is frustrating though...

SeaDawg
08-02-2014, 02:02 AM
At about 3,200 miles and 7 months and the dipstick hasn't shown a noticeable drop in oil level. I drive 60-70 on the Super Slab. My engine, however, doesn't live in the 4,000-6000 rpm range on any extended basis.