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View Full Version : Ok Fiat, please don't go down this road. This could be a turning point.



VTEC Mini
07-17-2013, 03:35 PM
A few weeks ago I went in for an oil change and an oil leak was discovered. At first it was thought to be a rear main seal. I got the car in the shop on Monday. I got news yesterday it is not the seal but it is the transfer case and "It is only a seep". I was all so told by my SA that she would take pictures and submit it but Fiat will possibly deny the warranty repair and not do it.....

I want to know "Why?"

A seep is an oil leak. A new car 6 months old with less than 11K miles should not be leaking. This is something I would expect from MINI of not honoring warranty repairs and poor build quality and why I left that brand. Despite the twin pillars in the "L", the wife and I were considering it when the 7 passenger comes to the states but depending on what happens here could change that.

It has been over 24 hours and I just texted my SA and she has not heard back from Fiat yet. Please Fiat do the right thing and fix it. I love my Abarth but it should not be acting like a '76 Chevy pickup at 10.5K and only 6 months old.

I want to be a continuing customer with you but this could change that.

trevc
07-17-2013, 03:46 PM
A transfer case is something you have in a 4 wheel drive / All wheel drive vehicle.
Very odd!

VTEC Mini
07-17-2013, 06:56 PM
A transfer case is something you have in a 4 wheel drive / All wheel drive vehicle.
Very odd!Yeah I know. When I saw it looked like the differential case but if thats what they call it, thats what they call it.

dylansi
07-17-2013, 09:22 PM
I have a leak over by the transmission also. Have my car on a lift around every other week and wipe it down and everytime it is back. I am 99% sure it is not gear oil but motor oil. I havent taken it in because I do not want to remove my intake or take it in with the intake and they deny it because of that...all in all it is a let down on the build quality for me.

Maybe time to suck it up and make an appointment...do any others here in HI have the problem and took it to the dealrship yet?

Small&Wicked2013
07-17-2013, 09:35 PM
I have heard this from many automakers(not just Fiat) that a seep is not a leak and they won't repair it under warranty. I think at some point that seep will probably become a leak. Could be wrong.

Fiat500USA
07-17-2013, 11:11 PM
Sounds like they are talking about the extension piece on the trans for the fifth gear or could be called the fifth gear housing, etc.. It could be condensed oil vapor from the breather on the transmission. Take a look at that and see where the breather is. If that's the case, there is nothing wrong, just vapor from the hard working transmission. See if it is leaking from a seam and if it is wet. If that is the case, keep an eye on it. You may want it cleaned by them and see if it comes back.

stubtail
07-17-2013, 11:12 PM
I took my 500T in for a leak that was 1st assumed to be a rear main seal failure from the pics I showed the service guy. Turned out to be a gasket failure and the trani was leaking. They repaired it without any hassle all under warranty, took 4 days. Haven't checked it since so I assume all is right :sad:
They did not mention any of the mods on the car.

On a side note they tried to fix usb but seemed to not change it's issues at all.

VTEC Mini
07-18-2013, 08:37 AM
Sounds like they are talking about the extension piece on the trans for the fifth gear or could be called the fifth gear housing, etc.. It could be condensed oil vapor from the breather on the transmission. Take a look at that and see where the breather is. If that's the case, there is nothing wrong, just vapor from the hard working transmission. See if it is leaking from a seam and if it is wet. If that is the case, keep an eye on it. You may want it cleaned by them and see if it comes back.

This was a little more than vapor. The underside looked like a glazed donut. My garage floor is a mess from the Mini so I don't if I am getting actual drips on the ground.

MAZ
07-18-2013, 08:41 AM
My (and others) 5th gear cover had leaked. Mine was repaired/resealed under warranty @ 8k miles on car. I would consider my leak a very slow 'seeping' leak that coated the under parts of the trans.
Pull the driver side weel off, you should be able to see the 5th gear case without having to get under the car.

If your trans or motor is wet on the under sides from a leak, you should not be denied a warranty repair.

VTEC Mini
07-18-2013, 09:28 AM
My (and others) 5th gear cover had leaked. Mine was repaired/resealed under warranty @ 8k miles on car. I would consider my leak a very slow 'seeping' leak that coated the under parts of the trans.
Pull the driver side weel off, you should be able to see the 5th gear case without having to get under the car.

If your trans or motor is wet on the under sides from a leak, you should not be denied a warranty repair.I hope so.

FiatCares
07-18-2013, 02:09 PM
To be safe, I would have it looked at by the studio.

VTEC Mini
07-18-2013, 02:58 PM
To be safe, I would have it looked at by the studio.

It has been at the studio since Monday and I still have not heard whether or not it will be fixed under warranty.

FiatCares
07-18-2013, 03:45 PM
It has been at the studio since Monday and I still have not heard whether or not it will be fixed under warranty.

VTEC: Would you like to send me your VIN (and other info) via PM and I can check on its status?

Small&Wicked2013
07-18-2013, 03:46 PM
That's odd to keep it 3 days just to find out if it will be covered under warranty or not...you sure they aren't repairing it?

VTEC Mini
07-18-2013, 04:19 PM
VTEC: Would you like to send me your VIN (and other info) via PM and I can check on its status?Thanks Jonathan. PM sent.


That's odd to keep it 3 days just to find out if it will be covered under warranty or not...you sure they aren't repairing it?I got a text yesterday saying they are still waiting and I just sent one asking for status up date.

VTEC Mini
07-18-2013, 06:15 PM
VTEC: Would you like to send me your VIN (and other info) via PM and I can check on its status?Jonathon, my inbox was full, I am so sorry. Can you please resend your reply? I will PM you too.

VTEC Mini
07-18-2013, 10:31 PM
Got a text about an hour ago from my S.A. She said Fiat called her and she would return their call in the morning and will submit the pictures too in the morning.

RustyPaint
07-19-2013, 03:46 AM
I just had mine done (re-sealed the transmission). It took close to a week for them to do it (and they gouged the bottom of my side skirt in the process from the lift, complaint is pending). They ended up putting die in the oil to track down the leak and verified that it was coming from the seal before proceeding with the warranty work.

BigDaddySRT
07-19-2013, 07:17 AM
It took Chrysler a week to approve my C510 Replacement.

There are Procedures the Studio must follow in requesting Warranty Repairs with Chrysler.... especially when it comes to the Transaxle.


I would bet that most of the Small Studios don't have all the Jigs/ Tools to properly work on the FPT C510 Transmissions.

trevc
07-19-2013, 11:40 AM
Wasn't sure if I had a leak or not or if I had cured it by tightening bolts a few months ago.
I looked under there yesterday and there is a transmission leak.
So, dropping it at the dealer tomorrow so they can look at it in the week. Hopefully they just need to redo the seals.
I have had good experiences in the past with my local studio so hopefully they will continue.
No loaner vehicle though no matter how hard I tried.

VTEC Mini, I thought it would be interesting to compare experiences on this thread. Hopefully we can both get fixes done right first time!

VTEC Mini
07-19-2013, 12:21 PM
Wasn't sure if I had a leak or not or if I had cured it by tightening bolts a few months ago.
I looked under there yesterday and there is a transmission leak.
So, dropping it at the dealer tomorrow so they can look at it in the week. Hopefully they just need to redo the seals.
I have had good experiences in the past with my local studio so hopefully they will continue.
No loaner vehicle though no matter how hard I tried.

VTEC Mini, I thought it would be interesting to compare experiences on this thread. Hopefully we can both get fixes done right first time!That would be great Trevc to compare notes, so please keep us up to date. I am very thankful that my dealer provides loaners otherwise this would be really ugly..

VTEC Mini
07-19-2013, 02:58 PM
Got a text about an hour ago from my SA saying she submitted the request.

VTEC Mini
07-19-2013, 06:38 PM
Just got a text from my SA, they are going to repair it! Thanks everyone and thanks Jonathan for the help!

trevc
07-19-2013, 06:57 PM
Great news! Hopefully it won't take too long.

Just got a text from my SA, they are going to repair it! Thanks everyone and thanks Jonathan for the help!

VTEC Mini
07-19-2013, 07:29 PM
Great news! Hopefully it won't take too long.

Thanks Trevc! I t has nasty drivers door rattle too everytime you turn left too- again. Plus a stereo issue- again, but I am happy, thankful and grateful the leak will be fixed. I just want it repaired right.

Let us when you get your results.

Tweak
07-19-2013, 08:47 PM
Great news! Took awhile but happy to hear it will be resolved under warranty as one would expect.

Seafarer61
07-19-2013, 09:21 PM
As long as Fiat continues to stay on top of issues like this...in favor of the customer...they will continue to shine. I really want their return to the States to succeed. I hope they retain the current business model that in all but the rarest of cases, issues with their automobiles are about the car, not the owner.

VTEC Mini
07-20-2013, 12:18 PM
Great news! Took awhile but happy to hear it will be resolved under warranty as one would expect.Thanks Tweek. I was good until she said, "possibly deny". MINI did this Crap when it came to repeatable failures or major failures like the Wookie clutch, mushroom strut towers, leaking engine mounts, warped hood scoops, and carbon buildup on intake valves. Sometimes they would fix it or deny the claim most of the time. So when I heard , "possible deny" I got bad flashbacks and got proactive.

Thanks to Jonathan and Fiat doing the right thing my faith and allegiance to them has been restored.

Tweak
07-20-2013, 10:10 PM
Thanks Tweek. I was good until she said, "possibly deny". MINI did this Crap when it came to repeatable failures or major failures like the Wookie clutch, mushroom strut towers, leaking engine mounts, warped hood scoops, and carbon buildup on intake valves. Sometimes they would fix it or deny the claim most of the time. So when I heard , "possible deny" I got bad flashbacks and got proactive.

Thanks to Jonathan and Fiat doing the right thing my faith and allegiance to them has been restored.

Your worry and concerns were valid, just good your issue will be resolved, I've been very fortunate to not need service (except the need for paint repair on the bumper) and hope I won't for a long time!

trevc
07-25-2013, 08:43 PM
Got mine back this morning. I had dropped it off Saturday afternoon so they could look at it first thing Monday.
They put dye in the gearbox and saw the oil was leaking from around the bolts holding the gearbox casing together. They called Fiat Tech support and they told them to remove one bolt at a time, apply sealant and re-torque to avoid taking the gearbox out / apart. Cost to Fiat was $219.
Sounds like in assembly they are not putting sealant all the way around the bolt holes :nono:

Anyway, hopefully the work they did / sealant they used will put an end to the leak.

As usual, no problems with the service at Gossett Fiat in Memphis. They made no comment about my mods or my racing numbers on the doors :eagerness:

Good folks to deal with if you live in the Memphis area and are looking for a VW / Audi / Porsche / Alfa Romeo / Fiat / Dodge / Jeep / Chrysler / Ram / Kia / Hyundai / Mazda or Mitsubishi.
If you prefer Bentley, they just sold that dealership jestera

RustyPaint
07-26-2013, 01:15 AM
I had a chat with my mechanic after he did mine. They drain and pull the transmission out to do the job. Everything was covered under warranty for me. The mechanic told me it is from the type of sealant they put on it at the factory. The stock stuff is only good for 95 deg fahrenheit ambient temperature (a cool summer day here in Arizona) and it eventually fails. The new sealant that he put on is red in color and good for much higher temperature. After it was applied, it takes 60 miles of driving for it to harden completely.

VTEC Mini
07-26-2013, 08:40 AM
Got mine back this morning. I had dropped it off Saturday afternoon so they could look at it first thing Monday.
They put dye in the gearbox and saw the oil was leaking from around the bolts holding the gearbox casing together. They called Fiat Tech support and they told them to remove one bolt at a time, apply sealant and re-torque to avoid taking the gearbox out / apart. Cost to Fiat was $219.
Sounds like in assembly they are not putting sealant all the way around the bolt holes :nono:

Anyway, hopefully the work they did / sealant they used will put an end to the leak.

As usual, no problems with the service at Gossett Fiat in Memphis. They made no comment about my mods or my racing numbers on the doors :eagerness:

Good folks to deal with if you live in the Memphis area and are looking for a VW / Audi / Porsche / Alfa Romeo / Fiat / Dodge / Jeep / Chrysler / Ram / Kia / Hyundai / Mazda or Mitsubishi.
If you prefer Bentley, they just sold that dealership jestera

So you brought your car in Saturday, they got to it on Monday and you are already out the door? That is fantastic and great and I am so happy for you but it ticks me off even more because they have had my car a week and a half and I got a text from my SA yesterday they are "starting the repair tomorrow" (today). I am so glad they are paying for this rental car. The most important thing though is that it is done right. Jonathan has been a big help and trying to get this rolling but the SA won’t return his phone calls either.


I had a chat with my mechanic after he did mine. They drain and pull the transmission out to do the job. Everything was covered under warranty for me. The mechanic told me it is from the type of sealant they put on it at the factory. The stock stuff is only good for 95 deg fahrenheit ambient temperature (a cool summer day here in Arizona) and it eventually fails. The new sealant that he put on is red in color and good for much higher temperature. After it was applied, it takes 60 miles of driving for it to harden completely.

Only good to 95F?! That is the weather where I live from April/ May to October/ November where I live LOL! 95F is ridiculous. Even in cooler climates I know the case gets hotter than that just from driving normally. If this is a fact, then that’s just plain stupid to use a sealant with that low of coefficient on a gearbox. Come to think of it, given the summer months pretty much anywhere in the continental U.S., using a sealant rated for 95F ANYWHERE on car is pretty stupid.

trevc
07-26-2013, 09:00 AM
I am hoping mine holds but I suspect that this is what they will have to do eventually.
Plenty of warranty time left to test it.


I had a chat with my mechanic after he did mine. They drain and pull the transmission out to do the job. Everything was covered under warranty for me. The mechanic told me it is from the type of sealant they put on it at the factory. The stock stuff is only good for 95 deg fahrenheit ambient temperature (a cool summer day here in Arizona) and it eventually fails. The new sealant that he put on is red in color and good for much higher temperature. After it was applied, it takes 60 miles of driving for it to harden completely.

Fiat500USA
07-26-2013, 09:16 AM
... The mechanic told me it is from the type of sealant they put on it at the factory. The stock stuff is only good for 95 deg fahrenheit ambient temperature (a cool summer day here in Arizona) and it eventually fails.

Please don't believe that. Italy is in a Mediterranean climate which in the south can see temperatures over 110 F. The running temperature of a transmission can reach well over 95, so that is just nonsensical.

Just checked - this is the operating temperature range spec for the sealant: Service temperature range: -50C - + 150C

BigDaddySRT
07-26-2013, 09:39 AM
Thanks to Jonathan and Fiat doing the right thing my faith and allegiance to them has been restored.

So.... you had you life preserver on and were ready to jump ship... but now you are going to stay a while.

Geez.... some dedication.

trevc
07-26-2013, 09:53 AM
That's approx. -58F to 302F :wink:


Please don't believe that. Italy is in a Mediterranean climate which in the south can see temperatures over 110 F. The running temperature of a transmission can reach well over 95, so that is just nonsensical.

Just checked - this is the operating temperature range spec for the sealant: Service temperature range: -50C - + 150C+

VTEC Mini
07-26-2013, 10:39 AM
So.... you had you life preserver on and were ready to jump ship... but now you are going to stay a while.

Geez.... some dedication.This is my daily driver for an 80 mile commute for my job. If it can't hold together and has a dealer/ manufacture that can't or won’t honor repairs under warranty I can't afford that interfering with me getting to and from my job and threaten that job. Sorry, I don't care who or what make it is or how bad azz or unique it is, my job is more important than any dedication to a car or its company espeacialy one the shows no "dedication" to its customer after the sale.

I went down this road before with MINI. The nearest dealer was 2 hours away. This car was all so in need of repairs of some kind at LEAST once a month whether it was a yearly clutch replacement, half a dozen engine mounts, needing the front suspension rebuilt, the rear suspension rebuilt twice and many other numerous repairs it required in four years of ownership at less than 36K miles. MINI started declining the clutch repairs after the second one and called its issue "A natural phenomenon" and at $2300 dollars a pop that was enough. MY "dedication" with MINI the next couple of years after that nearly cost me my job because I had to take time off, my marriage because my wife had to take time off of her job to bring me back and she started getting in trouble with her job, and was draining my account both in and out of warranty. I still love MINI but I will never own another one again unless they build a dealer in my town and fix their attitude and reliability issues- which they have done none of. I know you are not mature enough to understand that there is more to life than handing your life over to a car manufacture but there is, and I need to put food on the table and keep my family intact. So until you can understand that and walked in my shoes please keep your adolescent comments to yourself and take it elsewhere.

Fiat500USA
07-26-2013, 10:45 AM
That's approx. -58F to 302F :wink:

That should do it! I think even toothpaste would seal at 95 biggrin

VTEC Mini
07-26-2013, 11:30 AM
that should do it! I think even toothpaste would seal at 95 biggrin

lol!

b56.1m6
07-26-2013, 12:37 PM
Well said! Some comments aren't worth even humoring. No one should have to go through what Mini did to you but some companies but numbers before people. When it comes to autos trust is earned and Fiat is new here so when they start considering warranty coverage I dont blame you for your fears. What do I know I sold my real car LOL for my Abarth!

VTEC Mini
07-26-2013, 01:45 PM
Well said! Some comments aren't worth even humoring. No one should have to go through what Mini did to you but some companies but numbers before people. When it comes to autos trust is earned and Fiat is new here so when they start considering warranty coverage I dont blame you for your fears. What do I know I sold my real car LOL for my Abarth!

Thanks ;) !

BigDaddySRT
07-26-2013, 08:25 PM
Well said! Some comments aren't worth even humoring. No one should have to go through what Mini did to you but some companies but numbers before people. When it comes to autos trust is earned and Fiat is new here so when they start considering warranty coverage I dont blame you for your fears. What do I know I sold my real car LOL for my Abarth!

It's ok... Just keep posting your modifications and bad mouthing the manufactures... They don't read the Internet Forums looking for unauthorized modifications and then telling their techs what to look for in voiding Powertrain warranties.

Heaven forbid the Auto Manufactures protect themselves against fraudulent claims.

RustyPaint
07-26-2013, 08:29 PM
Just checked - this is the operating temperature range spec for the sealant: Service temperature range: -50C - + 150C

I'm sure he just mistaken Fahrenheit for Celsius but I can believe that the new stuff has a higher temperature rating.

enginethatcould
07-26-2013, 08:43 PM
So.... you had you life preserver on and were ready to jump ship... but now you are going to stay a while.

Geez.... some dedication.

This is how I feel, too.

Threads like this are borderline 'whitemail' -- fix my car or the whole Internet will find out. It would have been different if the OP just posted his/her experience after the issue was resolved, without the use of an ultimatum or threat, or if they had truly said that you were SOL. Glad you got it fixed, but I didn't feel there ever was a concern it wouldn't be fixed.

b56.1m6
07-27-2013, 09:57 AM
It's ok... Just keep posting your modifications and bad mouthing the manufactures... They don't read the Internet Forums looking for unauthorized modifications and then telling their techs what to look for in voiding Powertrain warranties.

Heaven forbid the Auto Manufactures protect themselves against fraudulent claims.
This from the guy who told me not to sell my Challenger to buy this tinker toy car or something like that. Now you are the great defender, fiat needs you as if they didn't have a team of lawyers to defend them. I think you are all loosing the point here, Fiat held on to this guys car while they were thinking about fixing it, others here said they had the same issue and it was repaired. Isn't this why this was posted in the first place, to get other peoples experience and advice. I don't think he was trying whitemail or trash Fiat, he just wants his car fixed, if it is leaking fix it don't hold onto his car while you think about it. Another thing to consider is that the issue may not even be Fiat, might just be his dealer or service dept not wanting or being able to do the right thing.

VTEC Mini
07-27-2013, 11:43 AM
This is how I feel, too.

Threads like this are borderline 'whitemail' -- fix my car or the whole Internet will find out. It would have been different if the OP just posted his/her experience after the issue was resolved, without the use of an ultimatum or threat, or if they had truly said that you were SOL. Glad you got it fixed, but I didn't feel there ever was a concern it wouldn't be fixed. Uhm, my issue was not getting resolved as far as I knew and I couldn't get a straight answer.


This from the guy who told me not to sell my Challenger to buy this tinker toy car or something like that. Now you are the great defender, fiat needs you as if they didn't have a team of lawyers to defend them. I think you are all loosing the point here, Fiat held on to this guys car while they were thinking about fixing it, others here said they had the same issue and it was repaired. Isn't this why this was posted in the first place, to get other peoples experience and advice. I don't think he was trying whitemail or trash Fiat, he just wants his car fixed, if it is leaking fix it don't hold onto his car while you think about it. Another thing to consider is that the issue may not even be Fiat, might just be his dealer or service dept not wanting or being able to do the right thing.

EXACTLY! And I will add to it that I wasn't getting any clear answers other than "possibly deny" from my service advisor and in fact when Jonathan from Fiat Cares tried to get answers the SA even blew him off too. So this not just some, "My dealer is having a bad hair day" thread.

It cracks me up and is pretty stupid to assume that I was trying to strong arm Fiat. I mean, really? A billion dollar global company worried about one thread? It was a matter of expressing disappointment in that I find Fiat such a great, fun car that it would a shameful and disappointing not being able to buy another one. Even if I was diehard, "dedicated" Justin Bieber type tweenie toward Fiat, do you think my wife is going to want to spend money and put her and the kids in a car that always needs repair or won’t be fixed properly? There is no "threatening" going on here. It's a matter of fact. Right now she is having doubts as it is and I am actually defending Fiats reliability and why my service department is taking so long. Two days ago, she wanted to call my SA and give her a what for and put some heat on but I calmed her down and put the brakes on that as a matter of fact. I have also been praising Jonathan for giving his best efforts despite his own troubles with my dealership. So please stop with the "white mail", "trashing Fiat" comments because there is nothing there on that supports that.

Fiat500USA
07-27-2013, 11:55 AM
I'm sure he just mistaken Fahrenheit for Celsius but I can believe that the new stuff has a higher temperature rating.

That is the original and only specifications for that sealant. I don't see any TSB or updates for a different spec. Maybe it will pop up, but I think it is just speculation at this point. The sealant is provided by a major manufacturer, and they have been using it for many years. It would be interesting to see if this is common on the European 500 boards.

I think others in different climates have mentioned leaks, so I am skeptical about the temp thing. I would think it would be some kind of assembly issue or maybe that Americans are more critical on these things. I just wonder how many are leaks and not just oil vapors accumulating on the case. You definitely don't want to see drips coming out of your trans. If you have a stain, I think that needs to be monitored and documented with the use of a die to make sure what's up.

SeaDawg
07-27-2013, 12:14 PM
Another thing to consider is that the issue may not even be Fiat, might just be his dealer or service dept not wanting or being able to do the right thing.

This is, I suspect, the real problem in this whole scenario. That's not to say I believe the OP's faith in the product/manufacturer has the consistency of bedrock.

enginethatcould
07-27-2013, 12:58 PM
It cracks me up and is pretty stupid to assume that I was trying to strong arm Fiat. I mean, really? .

No worries, man, it's simply a bit of criticism. Take it with a grain of salt and move on. No need to ruin your weekend over something someone said about your complaint [valid or invalid] on the Internet. :)

trevc
07-27-2013, 01:18 PM
"Walk a mile in someone else's shoes before you try to judge their journey"

VTEC Mini
07-28-2013, 08:33 AM
This is, I suspect, the real problem in this whole scenario. That's not to say I believe the OP's faith in the product/manufacturer has the consistency of bedrock.

Hard to do when you get engine codes that no one is clear on, side skirts that separate, hatch seal that needed replaced, stereo that has never worked right even after being replaced, a door rattle that can't be found or fixed and a transmission leak all at and before 10K don't you think? I think I have been quite calm and patient and have had great attitude. I have not called Fiat any names, used profanity or derogatory terms toward Fiat or its employees and in fact I even have thanked one several times.

As long as Fiat honors its warranty and continues repairs at it should and things don't become repetitive that can't/ won’t be repaired and it doesn't cause major issues where it affects my job or my marriage I will always be good with Fiat.

Fiat500USA
07-28-2013, 02:03 PM
I can see where VTEC Mini is coming from. That Mini experience is brutal! Replacing clutches that many times? WOW. I have a job that I can not miss any time from so I can imagine the stress. What I have had to do from thirty plus years of Italian car ownership and fixing my cars myself is to have a backup car. I know it isn't practical for some, but it takes the hassle out of having cars that are not mere appliances. For example, my Fiat dealer is a 3 hour round trip. Warranty work would be a disaster. I also repair my own cars and being either an Audi or an Italian car means the repairs can take a while to complete while I wait for parts. The backup car makes this do-able. Highly recommended.

VTEC Mini
07-28-2013, 02:48 PM
I can see where VTEC Mini is coming from. That Mini experience is brutal! Replacing clutches that many times? WOW. I have a job that I can not miss any time from so I can imagine the stress. What I have had to do from thirty plus years of Italian car ownership and fixing my cars myself is to have a backup car. I know it isn't practical for some, but it takes the hassle out of having cars that are not mere appliances. For example, my Fiat dealer is a 3 hour round trip. Warranty work would be a disaster. I also repair my own cars and being either an Audi or an Italian car means the repairs can take a while to complete while I wait for parts. The backup car makes this do-able. Highly recommended.

The clutch was about every 10K miles. It happened every winter when it got cold out and the car was under load like going up a hill and starting out in first gear. When you let out the clutch it sounded like Chewbacca was stuck underneath the car! It was a loud "WHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAA". It would do it even going over something as small as a speed bump. This became known as the "Wookie clutch" in the MINI community. It was prevalent in the '04 model which I had. Not all MINI's had it but you would get looks from people when it happened. I would replace the clutch and all would be good for the rest of the winter and summer until the following winter. MINI replaced the first one under warranty and then they determined it a "natural phenomenon" by the areas MINI rep and if I wanted it fixed I had to pay for it- warranty or no warranty.

I did have a backup car but sold it to pay off the Fiat. As mentioned earlier, within the next year the wife is supposed to get herself a new car and the one she is driving now will be the third car or DD for me.

Wiseguy
07-29-2013, 05:25 PM
I just found out that my 13 Abarth has the same 5th gear cover leak as well.
Does anyone know the resealing procedure of 5th gear cover?
It would be greatly appreciated if someone can provide a copy of service manual.
I guess I should get a service manual in the future.

VTEC Mini
07-29-2013, 07:22 PM
I just found out that my 13 Abarth has the same 5th gear cover leak as well.
Does anyone know the resealing procedure of 5th gear cover?
It would be greatly appreciated if someone can provide a copy of service manual.
I guess I should get a service manual in the future.It looks like this is becoming the new factory "Oh- Oh" like the rear main seal on the '12 models. Just take it in under warranty.

trevc
07-30-2013, 09:56 AM
Depends where your leak is.
If it just around what they call the rear or top cover I think there is enough room to remove that without having to pull the transmission. I haven't tried yet though.
You will need to drain the transmission first.
If it is leaking around the main casing joint (like mine was) and sealing/re torque'ing the bolts doesn't fix it the trans will have to be pulled out - an involved job.

For just the top cover from the manual

The transaxle drain plug (1) is located on the lower left side of the transaxle differential housing. Tighten the drain plug to 18 Nm (13 lb ft. ).

http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y413/Trevor_Cotton/tdrain_zps9f4a8828.jpg


Remove the six rear cover bolts



NOTE:
Use a heat gun or the equivalent to soften the gasket material prior to removal.




Carefully remove the rear cover.




NOTE:
The case halves must be assembled within 15 minutes after the application of the anaerobic sealant. Do not allow transmission oil or any other lubricants to come in contact with the sealant for at least one hour after the case halves have been assembled.

1. Apply a uniform bead of Mopar / Fiat Case Sealer or the equivalent to the sealing surface of the case
2. Carefully Install the rear cover.



http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y413/Trevor_Cotton/rearcover1_zps9337c720.jpg



Install the six rear cover bolts (1) and tighten to 25 Nm (18 lb ft. ).


http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y413/Trevor_Cotton/rearcover2_zps0a4388bc.jpg



NOTE:
The vehicle must be level when checking the fluid level)






NOTE:
All C510 transaxles require the use of Castrol BOT 350 M3.





The transaxle fill plug (1) is located on the left side of the transaxle differential area. The fluid level should be even with the bottom of the transaxle fill hole. Tighten the fill plug to 25 Nm (18 lb ft.).

http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y413/Trevor_Cotton/tfill_zps13eef5bc.jpg

Wiseguy
07-30-2013, 06:14 PM
Thank you so much, trevc!

I'll have to go under and see if there is enough room to just pull out the 5th gear cover.
The leak is minor currently. If it gets worse, I'll do this when the car hits
10k miles for the tranny fluid change.

trevc
07-30-2013, 07:00 PM
The recommendation seems to be to use Permatex 51813 or Loctite 518 to seal. Prep the surfaces first with Permatex 24163 or Loctite 37509.
All available via Amazon and other places. If the cover is warped or damaged a replacement is around $26 according to moparonlineparts.

VTEC Mini
07-30-2013, 11:00 PM
Well my car was supposed to be done today. I got a call about 4PM saying they need it an extra day. I was told they broke the gear shifter putting it back together. They are going to rob it out of an Abarth they have sitting on the lot. I appreciate their honesty but it makes me nervous as h- e- double hockey sticks that it won't be put back together right or their will be damage on the body work or interior.

trevc
07-31-2013, 08:45 AM
Looks like mine is still leaking. I need to take a closer look this evening but I think the main case joint is holding up ok but the fifth gear cover appeared to be leaking more than before :hurt:
I guess I will be headed back to the dealer next week. Tempted to do it myself but the sealant and gear oil would set me back over $60....

VTEC Mini - no idea why they removed your shifter. All they needed to do was disconnect the cables at the gearbox end.
Hopefully you will be back on the road soon!

VTEC Mini
07-31-2013, 09:09 AM
Looks like mine is still leaking. I need to take a closer look this evening but I think the main case joint is holding up ok but the fifth gear cover appeared to be leaking more than before :hurt:
I guess I will be headed back to the dealer next week. Tempted to do it myself but the sealant and gear oil would set me back over $60....

VTEC Mini - no idea why they removed your shifter. All they needed to do was disconnect the cables at the gearbox end.
Hopefully you will be back on the road soon!I don't either..... Im fearful of what problems might be ahead due to this repair.

VTEC Mini
08-01-2013, 08:06 AM
Now I am pizzed! I hate it when I am right when it comes to things like this. Yesterday at closing time my car was "finished". I dissuced what was done and as it turns out they really didn't do anything about the door rattle. When I drove off I found the steering wheel was off center to the left by about 20 degrees. I went back and my SA was still there but they were closing up shop and the mechanics already went home. I made arrangements to bring it back a week from Friday. Then this morning, On my way to work I was accelerating and I heard a "pop" from under the hood and the car lost power and I looked at the boost gauge and it dropped to zero and was not working. So now I have to miss a day of work.... I am trying to keep calm right now.

trevc
08-01-2013, 09:07 AM
Breath deeply - count to 10!

500ways
08-01-2013, 11:31 AM
Now I am pizzed! I hate it when I am right when it comes to things like this. Yesterday at closing time my car was "finished". I dissuced what was done and as it turns out they really didn't do anything about the door rattle. When I drove off I found the steering wheel was off center to the left by about 20 degrees. I went back and my SA was still there but they were closing up shop and the mechanics already went home. I made arrangements to bring it back a week from Friday. Then this morning, On my way to work I was accelerating and I heard a "pop" from under the hood and the car lost power and I looked at the boost gauge and it dropped to zero and was not working. So now I have to miss a day of work.... I am trying to keep calm right now.

I am really sorry to hear this. It's unacceptable and beyond frustrating! Take trevc's advice and breathe deeply - it's not worth your mental well-being. I really feel your pain though. Not only is the car you love experiencing issues, the folks who are supposed to address the issues are not only not doing so, but they screw up other things!! Pizzed is an understatement.

I would call FIAT corporate, explain everything firmly and calmly and demand resolution, possibly from another Studio. If FIAT needs to send a rep, so be it. Send the rep quickly and fix the car! Good luck!

VTEC Mini
08-02-2013, 03:54 PM
Breath deeply - count to 10!


I am really sorry to hear this. It's unacceptable and beyond frustrating! Take trevc's advice and breathe deeply - it's not worth your mental well-being. I really feel your pain though. Not only is the car you love experiencing issues, the folks who are supposed to address the issues are not only not doing so, but they screw up other things!! Pizzed is an understatement.

I would call FIAT corporate, explain everything firmly and calmly and demand resolution, possibly from another Studio. If FIAT needs to send a rep, so be it. Send the rep quickly and fix the car! Good luck!

Thanks Guys! Well the car is running beautifully and it feels so good to be behind the wheel again. Such a magnificent car yet with such pizz poor support. My door rattle is still there and knowing there will be nothing done about it just fries my nerves and takes away from such a beautiful car. I did send Jonathan a PM but have not heard back yet. MY SA said if it becomes too annoying to bring it back and they would look at it again..... It is already "too annoying" that’s why I brought it up....

Fiat500USA
08-02-2013, 04:24 PM
One thing to keep in the back of your mind is the SA is getting info from the tech and in my experience, may not understand what the tech is saying, or the tech may not be very specific when they describe what they did. It is either written down on the back of the RO or briefly explained. They aren't going to spend that much time giving details because they are pushing to get jobs done. This is a generalization, but it is based on a lot of experience. So when you hear about the gear shift, it could be at the front where the trans is. Some SA don't have much mechanical knowledge.

trevc
08-02-2013, 04:33 PM
Glad to hear you are back behind the wheel!

VTEC Mini
08-02-2013, 06:08 PM
One thing to keep in the back of your mind is the SA is getting info from the tech and in my experience, may not understand what the tech is saying, or the tech may not be very specific when they describe what they did. It is either written down on the back of the RO or briefly explained. They aren't going to spend that much time giving details because they are pushing to get jobs done. This is a generalization, but it is based on a lot of experience. So when you hear about the gear shift, it could be at the front where the trans is. Some SA don't have much mechanical knowledge.I found out how the shifter got broken. They didn't know how to take it apart. so the mechanic down loaded the "how to" section from Fiat. According to the S.A., it was just a general one that used the standard 500 gear shift as an instruction and evidently the Abarth is different. So mine ended up getting broke...

It is obvious these guys need help and more of it, how can I go to work for them and show how it is done?