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View Full Version : Motul 5w40 Fiat Approved?! + A list of other Synthetic Oil Specs (5w40)



Deefourtay
06-24-2013, 02:38 PM
I just did a quick comparison from different 5w40 Synthetic Data Sheets because I was bored. :rapture:

I found that Motul X-Clean is approved for Fiat too! :)

http://www.motul.com/system/product_descriptions/technical_data_sheets/31156/8100_X-clean_5W-40_(GB).pdf The FIAT 9.55535-S2 performance level imposes the engine oil to combine both ACEA C3 standard
and 5W-40 viscosity grade in order to perfectly lubricate all Gasoline engines of FIAT, ALFA-ROMEO,
and LANCIA produced from July 2007.

*Viscosity at 100C (212F)*
-Pennzoil Ultra Euro: 13.2 mm/s (FIAT APPROVED)
-Motul X-Clean: 14.1 mm/s (FIAT APPROVED)
-Shell Rotella T6: 14.2 mm/s
-Eneos: 14.67 mm/s
-Valvoline Synpower: 13.1 mm/s
-Agip PC : 13.44 mm/s
-Redline: 15.6 mm/s
-Amsoil Euro: 13.6 mm/s
-Shell Helix Ultra: 13.1 mm/s (FIAT APPROVED)
-Liqui-Moly Synthoil: 14.1 mm/s

*Viscosity at 40C (104F)*
-Pennzoil Ultra Euro: 80.7 mm/s
-Motul X-Clean: 84.7 mm/s
-Shell Rotella T6: 87 mm/s
-Eneos: 90.23 mm/s
-Valvoline Synpower: 79.0 mm/s
-Agip PC : 79.67 mm/s
-Redline: 97 mm/s
-Amsoil Euro: 83.3 mm/s
-Shell Helix Ultra: 74.4 mm/s
Liqui-Moly Synthoil: 86 mm/s

*Flash point*
-Pennzoil Ultra Euro: 215.5C
-Motul X-Clean: 234C
-Shell Rotella T6: 224C
-Eneos: 226C
-Valvoline Synpower: 230C
-Agip PC : 240C
-Redline: 232C
-Amsoil Euro: 220C
-Shell Helix Ultra: 215C
-Liqui-Moly Synthoil: 222C

shagghie
06-24-2013, 02:56 PM
is 'Fiat' approved the same thing as for the MultiAir 1.4L though? I thought our engines were the exception in their line up, hence the narrow specifications, etc., with regards to the MultiAir valving requirements, and detergent requirements.

Deefourtay
06-24-2013, 04:20 PM
Motul is really up there when it comes to high quality oils, it’s an Ester Based Synthetic.. Not the Hydrocracked over the shelf stuff. Group V oils usually provide better film strength protection and are cleaner.. They don’t ash as much as Group III Oils.

The specs of Agip PC are very close to Pennzoil Euro though, I wouldn't mind giving that a try since a lot of Ferraris and Lamborghinis been using the stuff for decades. I’ve had first hand experience with Agip for Motorcycles, great stuff.. It doesn’t even smell like oil, it’s virtually odorless!

The Oil Specs are pretty strict for our cars, so we need to run the best oils for sure. Too bad most don't have an official approval for Fiat-Chrysler! Pennzoil Ultra is definitely safe since it's the only fully certified oil, but there will be times where we can't get our hands on it and will need to quickly cross reference another oil to use.

BTW Motul is around the same price as Pennzoil Ultra, but easier to get.. & Agip should cost a bit more.

dart1.4t
06-24-2013, 07:48 PM
Motul is really up there when it comes to high quality oils, it’s an Ester Based Synthetic.. Not the Hydrocracked over the shelf stuff. Group V oils usually provide better film strength protection and are cleaner.. They don’t ash as much as Group III Oils.

The specs of Agip PC are very close to Pennzoil Euro though, I wouldn't mind giving that a try since a lot of Ferraris and Lamborghinis been using the stuff for decades. I’ve had first hand experience with Agip for Motorcycles, great stuff.. It doesn’t even smell like oil, it’s virtually odorless!

The Oil Specs are pretty strict for our cars, so we need to run the best oils for sure. Too bad most don't have an official approval for Fiat-Chrysler! Pennzoil Ultra is definitely safe since it's the only fully certified oil, but there will be times where we can't get our hands on it and will need to quickly cross reference another oil to use.

BTW Motul is around the same price as Pennzoil Ultra, but easier to get.. & Agip should cost a bit more.

i don't know what the fiat oil spec is for the multiair but the chrysler spec is ms-12991 or ms-10896. but amsoil is saying ms-10850 supersedes ms-10896 and the 4th edition manual for the dart is now saying ms-10725 in the fluids pagewhich was the requirement for the srt cars but still says ms-10896 on the warranty page . the amsoil should have ms-10725 as well as ms-10850, mobil1 0w40 is ms-10725 as well as redline 0w40 and 5w40. motul probably hasn't been tested by chrysler.

anyway motul isn't exactly on store shelves in the united states but it can be mail ordered and you won't find fiat oil requirements on the side of oil bottled for the USA either. maybe canada. it would be nice if someine can verify the fiat specification for a multi-air turbo and make certain it's not for a t-jet or non turbo multiair then we can try to compile a list of acceptable oils.

Eurowned
06-25-2013, 01:10 AM
i don't know what the fiat oil spec is for the multiair but the chrysler spec is ms-12991 or ms-10896. but amsoil is saying ms-10850 supersedes ms-10896 and the 4th edition manual for the dart is now saying ms-10725 in the fluids pagewhich was the requirement for the srt cars but still says ms-10896 on the warranty page . the amsoil should have ms-10725 as well as ms-10850, mobil1 0w40 is ms-10725 as well as redline 0w40 and 5w40. motul probably hasn't been tested by chrysler.

anyway motul isn't exactly on store shelves in the united states but it can be mail ordered and you won't find fiat oil requirements on the side of oil bottled for the USA either. maybe canada. it would be nice if someine can verify the fiat specification for a multi-air turbo and make certain it's not for a t-jet or non turbo multiair then we can try to compile a list of acceptable oils.

I build race engines and I use Mobil 1, Amsoil, Rotella, Motul. An SN rated oil is a high grade which is just as good as the next SN rated oil. Best suggestion is stick to the manufactures multi weight 5w40 and run any of the SN rated oils.

Deefourtay
06-25-2013, 01:19 AM
Luckily for me Motul is stocked on store shelves, at a tuner shop in my area. They also sell Agip at an Exotic Car Dealership in my area as well! You're not going to see Pennzoil Ultra on the shelf either, I haven't seen a single place around here have it!


i don't know what the fiat oil spec is for the multiair but the chrysler spec is ms-12991 or ms-10896. but amsoil is saying ms-10850 supersedes ms-10896 and the 4th edition manual for the dart is now saying ms-10725 in the fluids pagewhich was the requirement for the srt cars but still says ms-10896 on the warranty page . the amsoil should have ms-10725 as well as ms-10850, mobil1 0w40 is ms-10725 as well as redline 0w40 and 5w40. motul probably hasn't been tested by chrysler.

anyway motul isn't exactly on store shelves in the united states but it can be mail ordered and you won't find fiat oil requirements on the side of oil bottled for the USA either. maybe canada. it would be nice if someine can verify the fiat specification for a multi-air turbo and make certain it's not for a t-jet or non turbo multiair then we can try to compile a list of acceptable oils.

deathshead
06-25-2013, 08:22 AM
But Rotella is at every walmart for a quarter of the price.

jguerdat
06-25-2013, 01:30 PM
You're not going to see Pennzoil Ultra on the shelf either, I haven't seen a single place around here have it!

The service department near me stocks this by the case, piled up right outside the window. Maybe ask them to carry it.

shagghie
06-25-2013, 02:12 PM
The service department near me stocks this by the case, piled up right outside the window. Maybe ask them to carry it.

I just ordered via Amazon Prime with Free 2-day Shipping... (the P Euro)

djhace
06-25-2013, 02:22 PM
my baby just got some Amsoil Euro. :-)

Deefourtay
06-25-2013, 02:50 PM
But Rotella is at every walmart for a quarter of the price.

I'm currently running Rotella T6 in my car as we speak. Good stuff

Deefourtay
06-25-2013, 04:06 PM
Straight off the 2013 Owner's Manual.. Doesn't appear that the Chrysler Material Standard MS-10896 is listed this time, like in the prior 2012 Manual. Looks like we can use any Synthetic as long as it is API Certified and 5w40! gr_grin


http://www.scribd.com/doc/121622819/2013-Fiat-500-Abarth-Owners-Manual Page 63: Engine Oil with Filter, 1.4L Turbo. We recommend you use API Certified SAE 5W-40Full Synthetic Engine Oil. 4 Quarts (3.8 Liters)

shagghie
06-25-2013, 04:12 PM
Straight off the 2013 Owner's Manual.. Doesn't appear that the Chrysler Material Standard MS-10896 is listed this time, like in the prior 2012 Manual. Looks like we can use any Synthetic as long as it is API Certified and 5w40! gr_grin

After browsing UK Abarthisti and a buncha italian ABarth forums via google translate, looks like the reason for this is a short supply of the Pennzoil Euro, so the only thing they could do is lower the standard. As far back as late last year, Fiat was asking certain dealerships to begin testing some other oils (other Variants of Pennzoil, as well as a select few other brands even) to see how the engines would react (our engines were designed specifically with the high-detergent and viscosity targets of the P Euro oil during the design phase, so they weren't sure how engines would react to a broader spectrum of oils WRT valve speed/lubrication over extended oil change intervals). Dealers were asked to send oil samples back to Fiat for analysis over time. Perhaps that effort has been concluded and now reflected in the newer manuals? Apparently Pennzoil did not expect the demand for the US market between the dart and Ab 500 sales in terms of oil production for the euro variant.

They also have been putting in 5/30 oil lately, too... (EDIT)

Deefourtay
06-25-2013, 04:15 PM
At least I can sleep soundly on this matter now, Rotella T6 @ about $20 for a 4 liter jug at Walmart.. You can't beat that! Great oil so far :) My Studio put Valvoline in my car prior to this, and the oil thinned out at an alarming rate after I did an Autocross. Bad idea to use that oil on their part!

dart1.4t
06-25-2013, 06:41 PM
Straight off the 2013 Owner's Manual.. Doesn't appear that the Chrysler Material Standard MS-10896 is listed this time, like in the prior 2012 Manual. Looks like we can use any Synthetic as long as it is API Certified and 5w40! gr_grin

the dart has an owners manual and a "user guide" the user guide has always said api 5w40 and would be a good defense if you had a warranty issue but the owners manual and warranty disclaimer explicitly said ms-10896 untill the 4th edition which say ms-10725 which includes mobil1, a lot easier to get.

could be the same situation here. but many dodge service techs don't even know about the specific oil requirements and a warranty denial would have to be damage as a result of oil failure. they couldn't cancel the warranty entirely because you told them you weren't using the required oil. if your ecu fails they can't deny the warranty because you aren't following the oil change requirements. you would need bearing damage without loss of oil pressure.

Seafarer61
06-26-2013, 01:20 AM
Seriously fellas, there is a point to which oil discussions become exercises in paranoia. Use any 5W-40 that meets the API certification and you'll be fine. dart1.4t and others are correct. You're not going to "void your warranty" because you can't locate Pennzoil Ultra and decide to go with a competitor that meets the specifications illustrated in Fiat's own owner's manual. API and 5W-40 and you're good to go. If you're overtly concerned about it, just eat the scratch and let your studio do the oil changes.

Eurowned
06-26-2013, 01:47 AM
I build race engines and I use Mobil 1, Amsoil, Rotella, Motul. An SN rated oil is a high grade which is just as good as the next SN rated oil. Best suggestion is stick to the manufactures multi weight of 5w40 and run any of the SN rated oils.

Just quoting myself

johnnyquest
07-15-2013, 10:01 PM
Pardon the question from the long-time lurker...but after delaying the test drive as much as I possibly could I finally drove an Abarth and I'm hooked. Getting one in November after my overseas work trip. So I'm going back through a lot of the posts trying to learn more about the car and any issues people have been having.

So...my question is, is Pennzoil suddenly a good oil now? For years when I had my GLI all my gear head friends said to avoid Pennzoil because it contained paraffin. Most of my buds ran Mobil 1...but from what some people here are saying it's no longer a Full Synthetic? Just wondering why Pennzoil is the best choice for the Abarth.

JQ

Tweak
07-15-2013, 10:30 PM
Pardon the question from the long-time lurker...but after delaying the test drive as much as I possibly could I finally drove an Abarth and I'm hooked. Getting one in November after my overseas work trip. So I'm going back through a lot of the posts trying to learn more about the car and any issues people have been having.

So...my question is, is Pennzoil suddenly a good oil now? For years when I had my GLI all my gear head friends said to avoid Pennzoil because it contained paraffin. Most of my buds ran Mobil 1...but from what some people here are saying it's no longer a Full Synthetic? Just wondering why Pennzoil is the best choice for the Abarth.

JQ

Welcome to the forum.

As an answer that may not work for you... because Ferrari says so...

dart1.4t
07-16-2013, 09:21 AM
Pardon the question from the long-time lurker...but after delaying the test drive as much as I possibly could I finally drove an Abarth and I'm hooked. Getting one in November after my overseas work trip. So I'm going back through a lot of the posts trying to learn more about the car and any issues people have been having.

So...my question is, is Pennzoil suddenly a good oil now? For years when I had my GLI all my gear head friends said to avoid Pennzoil because it contained paraffin. Most of my buds ran Mobil 1...but from what some people here are saying it's no longer a Full Synthetic? Just wondering why Pennzoil is the best choice for the Abarth.

JQ

parifin in not fundamentally bad. it has a stronger film strength and if used in the right proportions it can make good oil but it can also gum things up... mobil1 is mostly PAO as far as anyone can tell. it doesn't usually compare to other high quality synthetic oils in standard lab tests but there is a point where good is good enough. i don't know that there is a difference in used oil analysis results and it's used exclusively by gm for high performance cars. it also has an exptended oil change interval like amsoil both containing pao which in impervious to most chemicals runs cooler and doen't break down.

well now onto the penzoil. when the "ultra" series was introduced it had a new additive package with about the best cleansing properties of any oil ever. it also has very good performance in the wear tests. there was a post on Bob Is The Oil Guy from someone with a contact at penzoil where it was indicated that it was a GTL petroleum base and had ester mixed in. esters are the strongest oils and primarily are used in racing synthetics. the amount of esters in pennzoil ultra are not know but probably well below 30% GTL is "gas to liquid" and it is made from hydrocracked natural gas rather than crude like other hydrocracked "synthetic" base stocks. i use synthetic in parenthesis because it is a legal grey area. it's not technically synthetic if you start and end with basically the same substance but they do break the molecules and have tight control over the length of the chain. it's a matter of where to draw the line between synthesizing and refining. but the "ultra" line of oil doesn't have parifin in it as far as anyone knows. when the API changed to the new SN standard from SM pennzoil changed the base stock and it is now believed to be a mix of PAO and GTL stocks as the volitility dropped quite a bit. the additive package seems to be the same or similar and i'm sure they make use of esters in the additive package...

what i heard on the dart forum but can't confirm, is that pennzoil did not expect the demand for this oil and is having supply problems. that's why the dealer and amazon are the only places to get it. and i also heard chrysler has been testing different oils and may approve some more. so far it looks like they changed the standard for the dart to an existing standard for the srt cars and mobil 1 and redline are now approved in the owners manual.

shagghie
07-16-2013, 11:38 AM
what i heard on the dart forum but can't confirm, is that pennzoil did not expect the demand for this oil and is having supply problems. that's why the dealer and amazon are the only places to get it. and i also heard chrysler has been testing different oils and may approve some more. so far it looks like they changed the standard for the dart to an existing standard for the srt cars and mobil 1 and redline are now approved in the owners manual.

This is the same thing I read on the Italian and UK Abarth forums around Jan or Feb this year... the supply is constrained, so Fiat requested that certain dealerships start trying out and using different oils, and were also asked to send in oil samples for long term studies to see if the Multi-Air valving technology would play well with oils that had less detergent properties than the P Euro oil the technology was spec'd for. Other variants of Pennzoil were what was being tried and discussed on those forums at the time, but since then, at least one forum member here also got Valvoline put in their car at a Fiat Studio... not something I would be happy about.

spydersniper
07-31-2013, 03:36 PM
According to Amsoil Technical the actual Chrysler spec for our Americanized Abarth is MS-10896. European Car Formula 5W-40 exceeds those requirements. It is designed for turbos and the "extended drain intervals established by European car manufacturers. It doesn't list Ferrari, but it does list recomende for BMW, Mercedes Benz, and Porsche. I put Amsoil in my first little TVR race car in 1974 and haven't looked back since. 21 cars including a Mercedes (360,000miles) and my last one a 520hp Dodge Hemi Super-Bee. It's also in my Abarth. You can reach technical at Amsoil if you have any questions

p2gee
06-28-2015, 06:00 PM
............. An SN rated oil is a high grade which is just as good as the next SN rated oil. Best suggestion is stick to the manufactures multi weight 5w40 and run any of the SN rated oils.


Dunno about this. API has be caught more than once playing fast and loose with passing out superior grades for inferior oils. All SN oils are not the same with some just squeeking by the minimum standards and others clearing the minimum with yards to spare. For me, good SN is a true full synthetic and not the hydro cracked petroleum variant. And generally, if your paying less than $8.00 a quart, you are probably getting a hydro cracked product

waygookin
10-11-2015, 09:15 PM
This is the same thing I read on the Italian and UK Abarth forums around Jan or Feb this year... the supply is constrained, so Fiat requested that certain dealerships start trying out and using different oils, and were also asked to send in oil samples for long term studies to see if the Multi-Air valving technology would play well with oils that had less detergent properties than the P Euro oil the technology was spec'd for. Other variants of Pennzoil were what was being tried and discussed on those forums at the time, but since then, at least one forum member here also got Valvoline put in their car at a Fiat Studio... not something I would be happy about.

I would be pretty ticked if they were trying to figure out what other oils are ok with my car. Shouldn't they be doing this at a factory or with their own cars?

Fiat500USA
10-11-2015, 09:31 PM
You can find Pennzoil all over the place now. Autozone regularly puts it on sale, and it really isn't that expensive at the dealer if you needed to get it there.

Mario Aponte
10-11-2015, 09:42 PM
You can find Pennzoil all over the place now. Autozone regularly puts it on sale, and it really isn't that expensive at the dealer if you needed to get it there.

I don't think the one at Autozone is the "euro" formulation which everyone seems to be referring to.

Fiat500USA
10-11-2015, 10:16 PM
I don't think the one at Autozone is the "euro" formulation which everyone seems to be referring to.

This is it. It's available at most Autozones.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-lbCagjuPiLY/UEDDbm0j1KI/AAAAAAAANXk/YzlZ2k6KafM/s640/Fiat500USA%2520%252814%2529.JPG

http://www.fiat500usa.com/2012/09/fiat-500-abarth-oil-change.html

carfreak09
05-16-2016, 08:08 PM
No one in here has mentioned Castrol Edge 5-40 full synthetic. It's the only 5-40 oil carried at my local autozone and is pricey at $8/bottle. Any thoughts or knowledge of its quality?

Fiat500USA
05-17-2016, 12:57 AM
No one in here has mentioned Castrol Edge 5-40 full synthetic. It's the only 5-40 oil carried at my local autozone and is pricey at $8/bottle. Any thoughts or knowledge of its quality?

Here is a data sheet on Castrol Edge 5w-40: http://msdspds.castrol.com/bpglis/FusionPDS.nsf/Files/E13A9F271142244680257FAA0072394D/$File/BPXE-AA5D4U.pdf

$8 for edge is a pretty decent price. It is $9 at AZ where I live. Best to wait until it or the Penzoil goes on sale and then get it. Personally, the Penzoil is what I use in my Abarth. I've used Castrol 5w-40 for years in our Audi A4, but want to switch to Penzoil as it also meets VW502 standards.

B3NN3TT
05-17-2016, 09:39 AM
I just order 6-quart cases of Pennzoil Euro from Amazon, so I always have some on hand. It runs about $50 for a case, with free shipping. I usually need to add a quart or two in the time between oil changes, so it's good to have the extras around.

ttforcefed
10-30-2016, 10:33 AM
why not just run mobile1? its easy to get and holds up just fine. Amsoil, redline etc all great oils but we are splitting hairs when it comes to cars that are being driven on the road no?

Eunospeed
10-01-2017, 05:17 PM
Just got my oil changed at Dennis Dillon Fiat here in Boise. Not sure what brand they put in my car but it will do until I start doing it myself next spring. I'll be using Rotella 5W-40 from Walmart because of quality, availability and price.

rustbucket
10-01-2017, 05:44 PM
I just ordered via Amazon Prime with Free 2-day Shipping... (the P Euro)

++1 .... doesn't get any easier than that.